Get Everything Done

Back in April there was a thread on standing height desk/work tops.

Here on assignment in Tanzania in Africa, my 62 year-old back has been giving me trouble, a bit like having "toothache" in the lower lumbar region (SI joint?).

To alleviate the discomfort when sitting, I have placed a HP packing box on my desktop in the client's office and have been working standing up for most of yesterday (nine hours) and over three hours so far today. The box surface is just about the right height (navel height for moi), maybe just a cm or two too low, but better than when sitting in a chair.

Like others mentioned back in April, I have not found it so tiring on my feet, and I HAVE found that I am "auto"focusing and concentrating better and I can alleviate any strain by moving around on my feet. Yes, I was a little tired last night, but not unreasonably. I'm not slumping and straightening in my chair all of the time, which is good, wish I'd changed to this mode earlier.

I think there is indeed merit in working and "thinking on one's feet". When I return to my UK home this weekend, I will be measuring by how much I must raise that desktop to the optimum height; my home office desk is an old "modular" desktop placed on two 2-drawer filing cabinets, so inserting risers (wood, bricks, whatever) will be easy, plus I also have another table in the home office if I want sit down and read/eat/talk/Skype. An alternative to raising the whole desktop would be to have a suitably-sized smaller box (a little bit bigger than the HP box I'm using right now), then non-essential materials and devices would be on the "lower" desktop out of the way.

Anyone else, other than moises, standing up for themselves?

It is on my "list"! LOL ;-)

I think you are on the right track in trying different heights to see what works. Once you find the dimensions you need, it should be easy to build a nice, functional workstation that meats the need.

As to your feet hurting, many of the standing desks have tall chairs that you can sit on to rest your feet, without having to "sit down". So you can kind of rest your butt on them and take some weight off, from time to time. I think when I do build mine, I'll have such a chair with it. My feet do tend to hurt after a long time standing still. (On a recent vacation I took a three hour tour on a Segway. Damn, that hurt my feet something awful. I determined that it was largely because you can't shift your weight when standing on a Segway.

Hi Mike
The standard height recommendation is the height of your elbows. That way your arms can bend or you can lean on a forearm while holding your spine erect. Another aide is to have a rail or a box to place your foot on so that you can shift your weight while doing longer bits of work at the desk. Because of my disabilities, a chair would wreck my back and neck but that might be a plus for folks who don't have to be strict with keeping their entire spine aligned. I'm both protecting the discs and the damaged nerves. I wouldn't trade my desk for anything! It's rigged to accodate both my work and my reading. The foot rest helps my feet and my circulation by shifting my weight while I'm writing or reading. I walk or lie down while I'm thinking. For eating, I have a huge chair that accomodates my legs stay up and so that I can wriggle around to prevent my nerves getting pinched.
It's also great for watching a bit of tv. Standard chairs are torture for me. I can sit for a little while only. Driving is hard....torture actually! LOL!
I hope you enjoy your desk. It took me a couple of tweaks before I had the layout just right! Don't forget to strategize placement of supplies. Placing things on it within reach of certain kinds of work also facilitates keeping my entire spine as erect as possible. My desk is huge. I have it broken down into 3 working type stations.
learning as I go

My Dad was an architect so he also stood to work at his drawing table with a tall stool to rest against when he wanted to. That makes me wonder why architects tables are that height but not desks in other professions? I guess it's to do with the tilt and having the reach for a large drawaing. Of course this was the old, pre-CAD days.

Lucy

Thanks, Mike, LAIG and Lucy fro feedback.

I haven't had a stool where I'm working at the moment. To be truthful, I've only sat for about 45 minutes out of a nine hour day so far, but I have thought about what i should use in the home office from next week.

I think I would prefer a tall stool with an angled seat so that I don't slump in it, ideally at the same angle as those single pole "shooting sticks" that country sport types park their butts on while watching sheep dogs round up sheep.

LAIG: I support your idea of a footrest, bit like a foot rail in a pub/bar! I also note what you say about placing things within reach, good point.

For my first attempt, I may just go for a suitably sized box structure like I am using at the moment. This would support my external monitor, external keyboard, mouse and maybe a notepad, and space for an open file. writing instruments etc.

The space on either side would have, eg, my Toshiba notebook (if not on the box top), my USB hub, telephones, labeller and other "stuff". I might design the box with an open front into which I could place files and other materials I may want during the day. I'll post dimensions later if anyone is interested.

There's another advantage in working standing up in my small home office is that I won't have stand up and stretch to get a file down from the shelves I have on three walls!

We stand alone, together.

Hi Roger
I used a simple solution for my desktop. It's a standard 24inch door! I have my huge metal board for my calendar, index card display, focus list, etc. Down the middle I have five standard drawers fo store supplies. Flanking either side of the centered drawers are glass doors at right angles instead of walls. Here I store my books and action binders along with quick access to paper, files, and other regularly used stuff. On the desk top proper I have other supplies that get used often and broken down into three work stations. This way everything is visable except the stuff in the drawers. I keep my reference files close by in a filing cabinet and my safe. When a reference item becomes an action item, it gets upgraded into a yellow folder and placed in my action files. I haven't rigged up a foot rail. Instead I use a regular footstool when I need it. I walk the desk often so I rarely need the stool except when I'm forced into a fixed position.
If you'd like an easy solution, perhaps a home bar would make a great base. I pieced my base from something I found during a dumpster dive. I'm guessing that i was an entertainment console. I made it to perfectly fit my elbow height. That is the most important dimension if you're looking to protect your back and neck. Remember, your muscles supporting your back and neck are working hard when you're hunched. We forget how heavy our heads are. A sore neck is a distraction to say the least! LOL!
Yes, we'd love to hear about your standing desk as you develop it. As I mentioned before...It will take some tweaking to get everything set up just right.
p.s. It's funny that you likened a foot rail to those used at pubs. When people see my desk, they think I've cluttered up my bar! LOL! They also invariably ask where I stashed the booze and where are the stools. I let them go on for a bit until I reveal it's true function.
We always get a few chuckles out of it!
learning as I go

Good Morning Learning,

So good to see you back ;-) You always add so much to whatever is under discussion.

>>> The standard height recommendation is the height of your elbows. That way your arms can bend or you can lean on a forearm while holding your spine erect. <<<

Ah, that makes sense. I have a book of "human factors" around here somewhere which gives a bunch of standard dimensions. Very useful for building counters and such. Now if I can only find it. LOL ;-) When I do get around to building it I will start as Roger is starting ... with a pile of boxes or something that I can work with for a while to tweak the dimensions. Then I'll make something crude to experiment with construction alternatives ... maybe something like adjustable height, as I've seen in some that are for sale. I may just stop there ... I probably will as I'm not sure I have the patience for building "fine furniture" LOL ;-) I do love the feel of beautiful wood .. and the look of it as well, but it breaks my heart when my lovely gaggle of furry sacks of knives climb all over things and leave scratch marks. <sigh>

>>> Another aide is to have a rail or a box to place your foot on so that you can shift your weight while doing longer bits of work at the desk. <<<

What a great idea! Of course, that can be a storage feature as well ... something like a box that you can place your foot/feet on and also use to store things. Neat.

>>> Because of my disabilities, a chair would wreck my back and neck but that might be a plus for folks who don't have to be strict with keeping their entire spine aligned. I'm both protecting the discs and the damaged nerves. I wouldn't trade my desk for anything! It's rigged to accodate both my work and my reading. The foot rest helps my feet and my circulation by shifting my weight while I'm writing or reading. I walk or lie down while I'm thinking. <<<

LOL ;-) I do that too! I wonder if it keeps the blood flowing or something ;-) Actually, when I think, especially on a hard problem, I seem to need to burn off energy. (Oh, and <shssssh> don't tell anyone, but I also talk to myself when I think! LOL ;-)

>>> For eating, I have a huge chair that accomodates my legs stay up and so that I can wriggle around to prevent my nerves getting pinched. <<<

We have kind of fallen into eating in front of the TV on a recliner couch. I have trouble with that as I wind up wearing more food than goes into my face ;-) And, of course, I'm a sitting duck for the cats ... they are all over me like a swarm of flies.

>>> It's also great for watching a bit of tv. Standard chairs are torture for me. I can sit for a little while only. Driving is hard....torture actually! LOL! <<<

I can imagine that even getting into a lot of cars would be problematic. Many seats these days have become a bit like bucket seats and getting in and out over that hump keeping your back straight must be a challenge.

>>> I hope you enjoy your desk. It took me a couple of tweaks before I had the layout just right! Don't forget to strategize placement of supplies. Placing things on it within reach of certain kinds of work also facilitates keeping my entire spine as erect as possible. My desk is huge. I have it broken down into 3 working type stations. <<<

Someday, when you have nothing more exciting to do, break out your digital camera and post a snap of it. It would be interesting. (Maybe a snap of your furry friend working at the desk? LOL ;-)

Mike et al.

Send me an email to rhj1947ATgmail.com and I'll send a photo of my current desktop on assignment here. Apologies in advance for untidiness of desks, under pressure to do a revised project schedule to save the project, plus my dress code - t-shirt and shorts, it was a public holiday here in Tanzania yesterday, for some.

R

Hey Hey ;-)

>>> I used a simple solution for my desktop. It's a standard 24inch door! <<<

Very ... ecological ;-) I once had a desk that while not cheaper than a dumpster dive door, was HUGE! I mounted the largest angle brackets (the ones made for shelving) on the studs of my wall. Then I laid a large 1/2 inch plywood board (painted flat black) on those. It ran the whole length of the wall ... it seems larger in my memory but it could only have been 4' as that is the size of standard plywood stock. I don't remember if I ripped it or left it 4' deep ... it is just too long ago ;-) But I loved that work surface. I have always loved large surfaces for work. My desk in my office is a thing from (I suppose). It has a hinge on the surface so it folds up to be a "normal" desk, complete with cubbies and all of that ... but then it flops over 180 degrees to add about 8 or so inches ... with the loss of those cubbies. I use it in the second position as cubbies make me crazy ;-)

>>> I have my huge metal board for my calendar, index card display, focus list, etc. Down the middle I have five standard drawers fo store supplies. Flanking either side of the centered drawers are glass doors at right angles instead of walls. Here I store my books and action binders along with quick access to paper, files, and other regularly used stuff. On the desk top proper I have other supplies that get used often and broken down into three work stations. This way everything is visable except the stuff in the drawers. I keep my reference files close by in a filing cabinet and my safe. When a reference item becomes an action item, it gets upgraded into a yellow folder and placed in my action files. <<<

Nice. I do that too. For when I'm on the go I have colored PeeChee folders ... you know the kind that are simple manila folded into a pocket on each side. I use the colors for a few categories.

Bright Yellow = Time Sensitive (bills and other urgencies)
Bright Red = Immediate To Do papers
Bright Green = Low Priority To Do papers
Bright Blue = Reference Material
Dull Black = To Be Filed

I keep those in my in-box and when I take off somewhere, I just need to grab those folders and I have what I need to work on the road. I also have a neat device ... I don't know what it is callled, actually, but I've always called it a filing bucket. It is just a bin with a lid on a stand and it holds hanging files ... it stands about 3-3.5 feet high so you don't have to bend down, or reach up to see what is in the high drawer of a 4 drawer standard filing cabinet. It is good for holding a collection of active files. When folders get a bit full, I'll transfer some of the contents to my longer term storage in one of two standard file cabinets. I try to keep one years worth of current files and and periodically purge and roll out to long term storage. That plan actually works sometimes ;-) I forgot who I learned this system from, but he advised keeping a marker in the current files and when on the phone or some other largely time wasting activity, you can purge a file or two and move the marker along. That way the files are continually maintained without there having to be a large "clean out files" task on the To Do list some day. I made a marker out of a tall narrow piece of colored cardboard and that works well while not hiding the labels on the files.

>>> I haven't rigged up a foot rail. Instead I use a regular footstool when I need it. I walk the desk often so I rarely need the stool except when I'm forced into a fixed position.
If you'd like an easy solution, perhaps a home bar would make a great base. I pieced my base from something I found during a dumpster dive. <<<

LOL ;-) DUMPSTER DIVE! You really get around ;-)

>>> I'm guessing that i was an entertainment console. <<<

Ah, I can see that! Nice idea. I'm looking at an entertainment thing now that I could see being used that way ... but I'd have to to raise up up about a foot or foot and a half. But I don't need anything big. Just a small stand up desk is all I crave ;-) Thinking about it now, when I do put it together I will probably make it knock down so I can store it when not being used.

>>> p.s. It's funny that you likened a foot rail to those used at pubs. When people see my desk, they think I've cluttered up my bar! LOL! They also invariably ask where I stashed the booze and where are the stools. I let them go on for a bit until I reveal it's true function.
We always get a few chuckles out of it! <<<

That's funny ;-)

O.K. Now to deal with that question of yours (about Evernote) that you asked me on the 8th but I missed until this morning.

Hey Mike!
I've got a loaded "fight for my money" day today (when it rains, it pours! )In fact my MITS are SIX things not including the regular stuff!!!! I could space it out but I prefer to get the ball rolling when it concerns getting other people to do the right thing OY! Maybe one or two companies will break pattern and pay sooner rather than later..........here's hoping! ROTFL!
I like the glass doors mostly because I can see everything. Also it's great for less dusting and keeping the critter hairs out! My entire unit is raised about six inches off the floor so that I can easily clean under there with the vac or mop. We animal lovers always have to accomdate things like this! LOL! In reference to the cat scratches, just consider them to be critter induced patina! LOL!
Well, I'd better get off of internet avoidance trap.......GET MY MONEY GET MY MONEY GET MY MONEY! ROTFL!
learning as I go

I know hat Roger said he doesn't need to hear any more from me (lol), but just for the record, I am still standing.

Roger,

I got your picture. You certainly did find a quick and dirty way of solving the problem. I love that projection ... you certainly don't have to squint ;-)

Moises and Mike,

I was watching an episode (again) of Band of Brothers last night and realised the slogan of the grand bunch of people is applicable, "We stand alone, together." Maybe the last word only applies in a virtual sense, in this forum!

I'm actually surprised how easily my ageing frame has taken to this mode of working. I leave Dar es Salaam tonight to return home in the UK. I'll be popping up into the loft to bring down a suitable box as another quick and dirty solution for my home office, before measuring up wooden blocks to raise the whole desktop, maybe.

Now I want to look for a "lectern" with wheels in case I want to be the last man standing in our lounge, the sofa and chairs are too comfortable and have probably contributed to my back problem lately.

Why would I want to do this in the lounge? Because I am away so much, I like to spend the time with my wife even if I am surfing the Internet while watching TV. or not.

Roger,

Some random thoughts:

- An alternative to raising the desk might be to put blocks on top (to make side supports) then lay a board across them. That would provide storage underneath as well as height. It would also be "quick and dirty" and require not even a hammer or screw ;-) Here, at the large hardware outlets, you can buy lumber and they will cut it for you ... sometimes for free, other times for $1/cut or something cheap. With some preplaning, you could buy something like a length of 4x4 and have them cut it into a number of maybe 2' lengths which you could stack as needed. Then buy some plywood (minimum 1/2" but 3/4" might be better to take lots of weight if needed and have that cut to size as well.

- If you have a wall you are not using ;-) you could try my idea of brackets and plywood. I used something that looked like:

http://www.leevalley.com/hardware/page.aspx?c=2&p=40003&cat=3,50659&ap=2

but I got mine from the local hardware outlet and they were not nearly so heavy duty. You can go with ones that just screw to the wall without the rails, but the rails do allow you to adjust the height if that would be useful. Of course, they also allow you to add other shelves. So you could have one very deep shelf as a high work surface with more shallow ones above and below for book storage and paper storage and such.

- Lectern: great idea. If you don't find one with wheels, and if you are handy, wheels can be easily purchased (at least here on this side of the pond) which will screw on or otherwise attach. You can also buy "pallets" with wheels attached. See:

http://www.leevalley.com/hardware/page.aspx?c=2&cat=3&p=51976 For Wheels

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=57649&cat=1,43456,43391 Might also be useful

Actually, the whole site is fun to browse and you might get all kinds of useful ideas, even if you might need to find another local source to actually buy from.

Mike,

I have a lot of adjustable shelving on three walls of my (small) home office.

As mentioned earlier, my desktop is a "loose" one placed on top of two 2-drawer filing cabinets. So I reckon the cheapest and quickest option will be to place blocks either on top of each filing cabinet (with the desktop on top) or underneath each filing cabinet.

But before I do that, I'll be popping up to the loft (I got back from Tanzania a few hours ago, overnight flight, little sleep!) to find a box a la I was using in Dar es Salaam this week.

Well, my home office now has a standing height desktop, bigger work surface than that HP printer box I used in Dar es Salaam until last Friday.

I used two plastic storage crates, one each on top of the two 2-drawer filing cabinets. This has created space on top of the filing cabinets below my desktop, handy for stuff I might want, eg labeller, stationery etc. I had to revamp the adjustable shelves above the desk

What is also nice is that I can use my external monitor and external keyboard with the monitor at just about the right height, so hopefully both my neck and back will be thankful for it. My Toshiba notebook is off to the left and I have the external monitor in extended mode, ie I can drag stuff from the Toshiba screen to the external monitor.

So my main focus (pun intended!) can be on the external monitor while the Toshiba screen has Outlook, Skype, Google Chrome and OneNote, and anything else in case I need to check them, eg inbound Skype call, calendar alarm etc.

I'm not sure if my solution will stay like it is now, I may try to replace the plastic crates with one or two wooden boxes with drawers, to maximise storage.

One advantage of standing up is that there is room to move from side to side of the desktop, no restricted area where one's feet would normally be, and no having to push away in a chair to move to the left or right,

But I think I'll get a foot rest soon.

I'll take a photo or two if anyone is interested, email me at rhj1947AT gmail.com

Sounds good, Roger. I was at the big box hardware store two days ago (after my last note to you about building something) and I browsed the wood (not what I was there for but I love browsing hardware ;-). I remembered, after seeing the price, that MDF is a far better choice than plywood for this kind of thing. About 1/2 the price and much stronger than plywood. And it has a nice smooth surface that takes paint well, if you are so inclined, but it does not need paint. But the crate idea sounds as though it would work forever. And it takes no construction and the price is right.

Mike,

I've decided on a quicker and cheaper solution!

The boxes I've got are 35 Litre boxes from Really Useful Boxes in the UK, but they also have 64L boxes with an opening end, so I can access that space for storage, even if its just documents, files etc from "work in progress".

The 35L boxes currently supporting the desktop are empty and putting stuff in and out of them will be a real hassle. The 64L has a larger dimensions ("footprint") except for height and will thus spread the load of the desktop.

I've also worked out I need another 2 - 3cm lift to achieve elbow height when I'm wearing shoes, but that can be done with strips of wood. I also think I can relieve the neck strain by raising the external monitor up by about 9 - 10 cm (again, a block of wood should suffice).

I wish I was a bit more of a handyman, but lack the time, and probably some of the skills required.

Still standing.

Roger

Hi Roger
A tip/suggestion for moniter height. Don't make the mistake most people do. They place their monitor so that the center of the screen meets their gaze with their head erect. Two things...Your head isn't supposed to be 100% erect...It will crunch discs and tense muscles. It's supposed to be tilted ever so slightly in a downward position. Also, align your moniter so that your gaze sits at about 60 - 70% upward from the bottom of the screen (or 30-40% down from the top). That way you can read the top and down to the "usable" part of the lower screen without compromising your neck position.
learning as I go

HI LAIG,

Thanks for that reminder, good to remember, I think I've got the positioning angle right.

Interestingly, our younger son, in the medical profession, popped round this evening and I showed him my "new" home office. His response, "Looks good, Dad, when I have to do computer work on the ward, I invariably go for the 'standing' workstation in preference to the sitting work station, I concentrate better."

Once the bosses start using standing height desktops and realise the benefits (ergonomic and cost-wise), they will roll it out to the serfs!

Roger,

Re: Handyman... Consider dumpster diving ;-) or go to the home store and see if they have a pile of scraps out back. They most often do. And, as I said before, if you really don't want to do any of the work, just figure out the dimension of some strips of wood and ask the store to cut them for you. If you go on a quiet day at a quiet time of the day, you'll have no problem getting that kind of help.

If you have ever looked at machine blocks (used for making accurate measurements for milling and such) you'll notice that they come in a build it yourself series of blocks that can be combined to make any measurement you want (up to a certain maximum, of course). So, for example, the blocks would come in relative dimensions of 1,2, and 3. Working in different units and combining the different sides of the blocks produces any dimension you like. If you extend that idea just a bit you can have strips of wood cut so that you can build up the dimension you like such as. For example:

- Several strips the maximum dimension of the board, uncut (say 2x4x 18 inches or so)

- Several strips 1 inch high (and 18 inches long ... ripping the 1 inch dimension to produce two
strips of 1x4x18

- One strip 1/2 inch high (rip one of those 1 inch strips in half to make two of these)

- Two strips 1/4 inch high (rip one of the above, etc.)

- Two strips 1/8 inch high

- And that is probably fine enough ... actually WAY more than fine, I'd think. ;-) The seasonal change in the dimensions of the wood would be more than 1/8 inch!

Now just mix and match ... heat on simmer for one hour and Ymmmm ;-)

If you wanted to do it yourself, just get a general purpose short (contractors, or "tool box" or "gents") saw ... this will give you the general idea:

http://www.amazon.com/Stanley-20-222-Sharptooth-Contractor-Tool/dp/B00006IIOE

And I can't see that you really NEED anything more. If you want to go hog wild you could get a sanding block and some yellow carpenter's glue and and weight it down with a few bricks until it cures (in two hours or so) to make the setup more permanent if you wanted ... but I don't think I'd even bother unless it tended to shift and slide around. Then glue would be simpler than screws or nails. WIth screw's you'd have to master a screwdriver and with nails, a hammer! LOL ;-) Just funi'n 'ya.

These things can be a fun puzzle to work out.

Mike,

Small strips of wood I CAN handle, it's just the 'craftsman' type of box and drawers I don't have the time for! Hence these plastic crates, for now.

Thanks for the ideas and encouragement anyway!

R

Maybe this might be too simple....As you're fiddling around with height requirements, buy a saw horse kit and four 2x4x8........Of course, start with the highest guess and saw down incrementally until you've got it right. Using scrap wood for the top temporariy or fooling with the dimensions for the top? Same thing. Start large and incrementally saw down. I love my 1 x 24 x 78. It accomodates three work stations and is shallow enough to reach the stuff on the wall. Simple clamps are a good temporary measure to keep the top from sliding. I'm embarrassed to admit that I've built a few custom pieces this way.......Once I know these requirements, then I can get creative. Sometimes it takes a bit of time to decide these things.....believe me, your body will tell you. Saw horse kit and clamps are very cheap and will keep your prototype stable without wasting much lumber. College students have been using this mockup since I can remember! Have a larger project or a messier one? Simply switch out the top! LOL! Please don't be insulted by this KISS and frugal version.....That's just me. I don't like to waste time or money on the prototypes....I'd rather spend it on the final product. Plus, this version hides well.
Don't get me started.....You can also saw the top in half and use bolt locks to double it for the big projects and store the other piece under the bed.......Yes, in early days, I was a starving student and then a starving artist! LOL!
Good luck with this, Roger. I LOVE these types of projects!
learning as I go

Hi Roger

You stated:
"Small strips of wood I CAN handle, it's just the 'craftsman' type of box and drawers I don't have the time for! "
ROTFL! I love cabinet making! Before I was disabled, my garage had all the fantastic bench tools. My ex hubby was P.O.'d that I wouldn't allow him to mess up my stuff. He screwed up or broke any tool he touched.....Some of these saws were over $2,000 each! ! ! No....we eventually got divorced for other reasons! ROTFL!
learning as I go

Mike/LAIG,

Thanks for all the hints.

I guess I could teach this 62 year-old dog to become more of a craftsman, but am away most of the time. BTW, I'm not totally inept and have managed decorating and other shelving when I have to!

I've raised the external monitor by putting a small tin box underneath to see what it's like with the top edge a bit hight, BUT lower than eye level, LAIG! Seems ok.

This afternoon I'm seeing my physio to check out my back, will take along my assignment backpack (Redoxx Airborne, great piece of kit, not cheap, but true quality rarely is) WITH normal contents and weight. Interestingly, my back does not taker strain during prolonged standing at my desk, nor when I carry my assignment backpack with both straps in position. I think the damage was done during sport activities (rugby, soccer, cricket, squash) in days of yore and exacerbated by excessive sitting (including long haul flights in cattle class) and having luggage slung over one shoulder. I have many assignment bags gathered over the years, including wheeled cabin bags/backpacks, but my Redoxx Airborne will do me for the foreseeable future, possibly with a decent collapsible trolley.

Another non-AF tip: here in the UK and Europe, only rechargeable batteries will be allowed/available within a couple of years. I've been using rechargers for some years and picked up the following tip to identify which batteries are charged and which are empty: recharged batteries have an elastic band round them, empty ones don't.

Reading through this thread to refresh myself on some of the feedback, I've been told by friends and colleagues "outside" AF that it's not rare, but uncommon, to find standing height work stations.

There are some very nice motorised workstations available which can be precisely adjusted to each user, BUT they're pricey, one reason for corporates NOT to invest in them' another reason is "image", but then I've never played the corporate game well. which maybe explains why I'm a consultant!

I've been amazed how much money can be spent on furniture, but there's no need to go overboard. One of Mike's ideas, a standard door as a desktop, was used by amazon.com during its start-up, placed on trestles, easily moved around. I think I read that amazon still uses the same "furniture" approach.

I've always maintained that two 2-drawer filing cabinets make fine supports for a desk/work top (on wheels if used with a trestle a la amazon). Then the desktop can be raised by risers (plastic, wood, bricks, whatever) to suit the user.

There must be an opportunity for someone to offer the components to make customised desks along the lines outlined in this thread.

Still standing.

Roger

Hi Roger
When I'd answer questions, the men wouldn't believe me. I'd jokingly say to my male supervisor, "Hey, will you repeat what I just said so that they will believe it?" He'd joking respond...."Yeah, guys. She's right." But they were so glazed over, that the "man" would have to REPEAT what I instructed! ! ! For some of my work, I had to allow my boss to say he did it to get the contract.......sorry, Roger but this is a sore spot with me.
I mentioned the door as a desktop and the trestle is merely a dressed up version of a saw horse kit. I simply advised on the cheapest version because I thought you were still working on your prototype version.
This really sort of galls me because you can't even see me! My dad used to say that the world would receive my talents better if I was a man. I have to resign myself to this fact and find ways to be successful none-the-less.......but in cyberspace? Come on!
learning as I go
p.s. Also, you wouldn't need risers if you start with higher legs and saw down. Plus it would be safer as well.

Now that's off my chest.......good luck with your desk.

Roger,

I see what you mean about the boxes. It would be nice if you had ones with open fronts so you could use them for storage.

I note that you have rails and movable shelves behind your desk. You could, as I mentioned, get very deep supports and have your desk surface hanging on the wall.

Learning,

>>> Maybe this might be too simple....As you're fiddling around with height requirements, buy a saw horse kit and four 2x4x8........Of course, start with the highest guess and saw down incrementally until you've got it right. <<<

Owww, nice idea. Cheap, simple. LOVE IT!!!

>>> Using scrap wood for the top temporariy or fooling with the dimensions for the top? Same thing. Start large and incrementally saw down. I love my 1 x 24 x 78. <<<

GAK! 78! I had no idea you made it that big. COOL! ;-)

>>> It accomodates three work stations and is shallow enough to reach the stuff on the wall. Simple clamps are a good temporary measure to keep the top from sliding. I'm embarrassed to admit that I've built a few custom pieces this way....... <<<

Don't be embarrassed. Prototyping is always a smart move.

<<< Once I know these requirements, then I can get creative. Sometimes it takes a bit of time to decide these things.....believe me, your body will tell you. <<<

Yeah, It is like buying shoes. New shoes often feel good for the first few hours but then ...

>>> Saw horse kit and clamps are very cheap and will keep your prototype stable without wasting much lumber. College students have been using this mockup since I can remember! Have a larger project or a messier one? Simply switch out the top! LOL! Please don't be insulted by this KISS and frugal version.....That's just me. I don't like to waste time or money on the prototypes....I'd rather spend it on the final product. Plus, this version hides well. >>>

Yes, those kits are very inexpensive. I have seen them at the big box hardware stores for under $15.00 (Wood additional, of course.)

>>> Don't get me started.....You can also saw the top in half and use bolt locks to double it for the big projects and store the other piece under the bed.......Yes, in early days, I was a starving student and then a starving artist! LOL! <<<

In my experience, artists are very practical and handy.

Learning,

>>> ROTFL! I love cabinet making! Before I was disabled, my garage had all the fantastic bench tools. My ex hubby was P.O.'d that I wouldn't allow him to mess up my stuff. He screwed up or broke any tool he touched.....Some of these saws were over $2,000 each! ! ! <<<

I have to admit, I've never seen a $2,000 hand saw! It MUST be Japanese ;-) ;-) I've been lusting after Japanese chisels for some time now. But alas, I can't justify the expense. Some of those are worked over and over, the metal being folded over 200 times. Ah, tool porn ;-) Maybe some day I'll just spring for one ... just to have one and admire it. But that would be a waste and would offend other of my sensibilities ;-)

(I just popped over to the Japan Woodworker and saw a very nice 2" slick for $510. A bargain ;-)

>>> No....we eventually got divorced for other reasons! ROTFL! <<<

Well, in my experience, all of that stuff is related, in the last analysis. Had he been a person who respected your tools, he might have behaved differently in other ways. LOL ;-) I have known craftsmen who would KILL if someone touched their tools!

Roger,

Re: Batteries. Good tip. I hand not thought of rubber bands. I was using bits of post-it notes and they fall off. Here in the U.S. they will soon stop selling incandescent light bulbs. More social engineering. I thought they might have gotten the message with the stupid low flush toilets. People now just flush twice! <Sigh.>

>>> I've been amazed how much money can be spent on furniture, but there's no need to go overboard. One of Mike's ideas, a standard door as a desktop,

While I have done that in the past, it was suggested here by Learning, who uses that in her own setup. In my garage, I have a quick and dirty workbench which is just an old door.

>>> was used by amazon.com during its start-up, placed on trestles, easily moved around. I think I read that amazon still uses the same "furniture" approach. <<<

Interesting tidbit.

>>> I've always maintained that two 2-drawer filing cabinets make fine supports for a desk/work top (on wheels if used with a trestle a la amazon). Then the desktop can be raised by risers (plastic, wood, bricks, whatever) to suit the user. <<<

I've seen that implemented as a makeshift sit down desk many times before. I've even seen that setup in construction environments.

>>> There must be an opportunity for someone to offer the components to make customised desks along the lines outlined in this thread. <<<

You'd think. But most of us are so cheap that we'd not pay what it would cost to market the whole business. LOL ;-)

Learning,

>>> When I'd answer questions, the men wouldn't believe me. I'd jokingly say to my male supervisor, "Hey, will you repeat what I just said so that they will believe it?" He'd joking respond...."Yeah, guys. She's right." But they were so glazed over, that the "man" would have to REPEAT what I instructed! ! ! For some of my work, I had to allow my boss to say he did it to get the contract....... <<<

I've seen that over and over. Sad but true.

>>> sorry, Roger but this is a sore spot with me.
I mentioned the door as a desktop and the trestle is merely a dressed up version of a saw horse kit. I simply advised on the cheapest version because I thought you were still working on your prototype version.
This really sort of galls me because you can't even see me! My dad used to say that the world would receive my talents better if I was a man. I have to resign myself to this fact and find ways to be successful none-the-less.......but in cyberspace? Come on! <<<

I think Roger just forgot who said what to whom. I'm sure no disrespect was intended. I do that frequently. You are certainly a fountain of creative ideas.

>>> Now that's off my chest.......good luck with your desk. <<<

I'd wager that we flooded Roger with so many ideas that his memory collapsed under the load ;-) ;-)

LAIG,

I am confused, a sign of my times? As Mike has highlighted, I meant no disrespect in any of my comments, and am sorry if you interpreted any thus.

As I am also an enthusiastic maverick and often politically incorrect (although I do have some standards), you would be very aware if I intended to be blunt or even rude, which I would not wish to be to anyone of this forum. At least I found out that peripatetic was a compliment or description and not an insult as I first perceived it to be.

Back on topic: it seems certain back muscles are having to adjust to my standing most of the time. I hope it does not affect my new-found enthusiasm. Losing late middle-age spread weight will also help, although not having lunch during Ramadan last month on assignment has already helped.

Mike: the new front-end boxes are on order. The desktop (63 inches x 31.5 x 2) is quite heavy, so I don't want to support it on a batten unless the boxes take strain. I also like to have access to the myriad of cables around the office.

Have a good day, both of you, and anyone else making it this far down the thread.

Good Morning Roger,

>>> I am confused, a sign of my times? <<<

LOL ;-) Tell me about it ;-)

>>> As I am also an enthusiastic maverick and often politically incorrect (although I do have some standards), you would be very aware if I intended to be blunt or even rude, which I would not wish to be to anyone of this forum. <<<

Well, I consider being politically incorrect to be a virtue of the highest order ;-)

>>> At least I found out that peripatetic was a compliment or description and not an insult as I first perceived it to be. <<<

LOL ;-) I had forgotten that was you!

>>> Back on topic: it seems certain back muscles are having to adjust to my standing most of the time. I hope it does not affect my new-found enthusiasm. Losing late middle-age spread weight will also help, although not having lunch during Ramadan last month on assignment has already helped. <<<

I have found that as well. So much is linked to hauling around extra baggage. The more weight I lose the more energy I have and the less things hurt.

>>> Mike: the new front-end boxes are on order. The desktop (63 inches x 31.5 x 2) is quite heavy, so I don't want to support it on a batten unless the boxes take strain. <<<

Gotcha.

>>> I also like to have access to the myriad of cables around the office. <<<

I saw a very neat way of organizing cables ... rain gutter. Someone thought up using plastic rain gutter on the underside of his desk/table and running cables through it and they are all neatly hidden away.

Hi Mike,

That rain gutter idea sounds useful, although most of my power cables running through a couple of multipoint extension boxes have cable ties already, partly my own inclination, but also the wishes of SWTSMBO (She Who Thinks She Must Be Obeyed).

Yes, the last few years of hauling baggage around airports and beyond has taken its toll (younger readers, take note!). My physio did confirm that even for someone like me with some back pain/problems, a backpack properly adjusted is best.

I do tend to carry a lot of stuff on assignments because some everyday things are not available at some locations. The reason why my cabin backpack (Redoxx Airborne) and other flight bag (Redoxx Gator) is so I can start my assignment even if my checkin luggage goes astray or lags behind.

Included in the backpack are: notebook computer, two power adapters (in case one breaks down), folding keyboard, folding stand, mouse, single ear headset (for Skype), system CDs/DVDs, USB battery charger and spare batteries, sunglasses, document folders, portable scanner etc etc; spare underclothing and socks ("A fool and his underpants are soon parted"), and depending on the season, a rolled up outer jacket (Domag, getting worn out, must replace it) strapped underneath the backpack.
In the Gator: camera, notebook (paper!), pens etc, medication for the whole duration plus one week, glasses, spare glasses, reading matter, earphones etc.

No wonder my back aches!

SWTSMBO??

Clearly Roger knows no fear!

Thanks Mike and Roger
Perhaps my perspective is a bit skewed from decades of hard struggle. Fortunately, I was always blessed by having some folks who didn't make me jump through hoops. *blush*
Again, thank you.
learning as I go

My back has been quite sore and tender for the past couple of days. On Tuesday the physio said the two main muscles running either side of the spine were very tight (stress as well?).

I hope it is just from luggage hauling last weekend and maybe from manoeuvring the desktop around when I placed the two plastic boxes underneath the heavy desktop.

If so, then I'm in for more strain when two replacement boxes arrive and I have swap them with the current ones, and insert a couple of pieces of wood to raise the desktop another 2 cm (that's almost an inch for you guys across the Pond);-}

Aluta continua!

Update: it seems some of my back pain a week ago was due to a cold virus doing the rounds, now gone, but coincided with the visit of our daughter and our two granddaughters (34 months and three months, known as the GGs = Gorgeous Girls!). They were a good tonic, but left me alone in my discomfort then necessary, like when I was getting to grips with Windows 7 after installing it over XP.

I now have to get AF4 back up and running again, lots to do before I leave for a six week assignment in Egypt (near Luxor, eat your hearts out ;-)) on Friday afternoon. SWTSMBO will be with me for the first three weeks.

The new support boxes (made by Really Useful Boxes) arrived and have been installed. Their front opening flaps provide access to useful storage space just below my standing height desk/work top.

Taking on board tips from others, I have brought down an old kitchen bar stool from the loft. This means I can not only sit with a straight back IF I feel so inclined, but I can use its own footrest bars as a foot rest when standing.

Another non-AF tip: there are only two kinds of data: (1) that which resides on the hard disk of your computer and (2) that which has been backed up, wherever. There is NO "in between" state (so far).