;)
Discussion Forum > Get Everything Done iPhone application
Alex,
Here is your feedback ;-)
1) Very nice as shown on the video.
2) If you don't have it already, you need to have some way of doing bulk import/export of tasks. Many of us have an implementation in other software and don't relish the idea of stating over just to try something new. Starting over is a big impediment to your market penetration.
3) You need some kind of backup. This could be a simple export but I'm sure you can come up with something better.
4) You could easily draw the red line automatically if a subsequent pass of the closed list produces no action on any task. But then you would need a way to delete the line so that someone could simply review the task list without triggering that action. (Yeah, not strict AF4, but what the hell? ;-)
5) I second the requests for dates. I would like to see a "task create date" and a "task completed date" added automatically, and the provision to allow at least one other date for a "task due date". Possibly another for "task start date". (All of this is not AF4, but useful). For the optional date I would like them to not get in the way of your simple interface. Perhaps a button to click to allow them to be entered if desired but left blank (and no form to fill) if they are not specifically requested.
6) Along with optional dates, optional tags or categories would be REALLY REALLY helpful. The main reason I use software is so that I can filter tasks so that if I'm working in the yard, I can see all my yard tasks and nothing else. (On paper I keep them in a separate list but electronically, I see tags as a better solution.)
7) Lower on the priority list for requests would be some control over appearance. I.E. color for strike out, simpler strikeout (rather than the scribble over business you have now), font size and style, etc.
8) Along with the request for export, it would be nice to be able to control the format of the export. This would allow exporting to a word processor or something that would allow printing for those who want to have a printed list. (A much lower priority, of course.)
All in all, a very nice first cut. I would be happy to test for you but I'm not sure I want to do all that is necessary to get binaries installed on the iPhone. (I do realize the nonsense that Jobs has put in your way ;-)
Also, if you need anyone to clean up the English in your documentation, I would be glad to do that for you. I could turn around a few short pages in less than a day.
Again, nice work.
Here is your feedback ;-)
1) Very nice as shown on the video.
2) If you don't have it already, you need to have some way of doing bulk import/export of tasks. Many of us have an implementation in other software and don't relish the idea of stating over just to try something new. Starting over is a big impediment to your market penetration.
3) You need some kind of backup. This could be a simple export but I'm sure you can come up with something better.
4) You could easily draw the red line automatically if a subsequent pass of the closed list produces no action on any task. But then you would need a way to delete the line so that someone could simply review the task list without triggering that action. (Yeah, not strict AF4, but what the hell? ;-)
5) I second the requests for dates. I would like to see a "task create date" and a "task completed date" added automatically, and the provision to allow at least one other date for a "task due date". Possibly another for "task start date". (All of this is not AF4, but useful). For the optional date I would like them to not get in the way of your simple interface. Perhaps a button to click to allow them to be entered if desired but left blank (and no form to fill) if they are not specifically requested.
6) Along with optional dates, optional tags or categories would be REALLY REALLY helpful. The main reason I use software is so that I can filter tasks so that if I'm working in the yard, I can see all my yard tasks and nothing else. (On paper I keep them in a separate list but electronically, I see tags as a better solution.)
7) Lower on the priority list for requests would be some control over appearance. I.E. color for strike out, simpler strikeout (rather than the scribble over business you have now), font size and style, etc.
8) Along with the request for export, it would be nice to be able to control the format of the export. This would allow exporting to a word processor or something that would allow printing for those who want to have a printed list. (A much lower priority, of course.)
All in all, a very nice first cut. I would be happy to test for you but I'm not sure I want to do all that is necessary to get binaries installed on the iPhone. (I do realize the nonsense that Jobs has put in your way ;-)
Also, if you need anyone to clean up the English in your documentation, I would be glad to do that for you. I could turn around a few short pages in less than a day.
Again, nice work.
October 31, 2009 at 18:52 |
Mike
Mike
Mike, thx a lot for you feedback.
1) we are going to make more tutorials, the next one will be: how to use twitter to add new tasks, and how to backup all your tasks
2) yes I know that most of you guys already using some app to manage your tasks. The tough task here is to understand what app is most popular. We will do that in the next versions.
3) GED already has a backup feature :) You can go to app settings and backup all your tasks to your email box. To restore just open that email on your iPhone and tap on restore link.
4) We probably can automate entire AF4 workflow, but I don't want to do that, because I believe not everyone use AF4, and some one has custom workflows. So we want to give the user maximum freedom to do stuff as he likes.
5) task created date and tasks completed date will be added in the v1.1. Task due dates will be also supported in v1.1 but we see them more widely. You can read about that in ideas.gedapp.com
6) I am also thinking that we need some kind of categories. But we have a much better idea how to do that. Tags and categories are complex and not very easy to adapt. I tried tags in Things and was not able to create some meaningful tag hierarchy.
7) We will do that. also I am thinking about different paper templates, colors, etc.
8) I believe export to Excel should works fine. Excel has really nice analysis features.
We made very detailed page how to install app while it in review. Just click on In Review button on site's main page.
I would be very happy if you point me into some English errors on main site. I am not a native English guy, so I'll appreciate any help with this.
And than you for you feedback. I'll add it to ideas.gedapp.com for tracking.
1) we are going to make more tutorials, the next one will be: how to use twitter to add new tasks, and how to backup all your tasks
2) yes I know that most of you guys already using some app to manage your tasks. The tough task here is to understand what app is most popular. We will do that in the next versions.
3) GED already has a backup feature :) You can go to app settings and backup all your tasks to your email box. To restore just open that email on your iPhone and tap on restore link.
4) We probably can automate entire AF4 workflow, but I don't want to do that, because I believe not everyone use AF4, and some one has custom workflows. So we want to give the user maximum freedom to do stuff as he likes.
5) task created date and tasks completed date will be added in the v1.1. Task due dates will be also supported in v1.1 but we see them more widely. You can read about that in ideas.gedapp.com
6) I am also thinking that we need some kind of categories. But we have a much better idea how to do that. Tags and categories are complex and not very easy to adapt. I tried tags in Things and was not able to create some meaningful tag hierarchy.
7) We will do that. also I am thinking about different paper templates, colors, etc.
8) I believe export to Excel should works fine. Excel has really nice analysis features.
We made very detailed page how to install app while it in review. Just click on In Review button on site's main page.
I would be very happy if you point me into some English errors on main site. I am not a native English guy, so I'll appreciate any help with this.
And than you for you feedback. I'll add it to ideas.gedapp.com for tracking.
October 31, 2009 at 21:56 |
Alex
Alex
Twitter?! So you can tweet your way through AF4?! What a concept!
November 1, 2009 at 0:09 |
Alan Baljeu
Alan Baljeu
Alex,
>>> 1) we are going to make more tutorials, the next one will be: how to use twitter to add new tasks, and how to backup all your tasks <<<
Great. Your tutorial worked well.
>>> 2) yes I know that most of you guys already using some app to manage your tasks. The tough task here is to understand what app is most popular. We will do that in the next versions. <<<
Gotcha. If I were you, I'd look at various applications and see what options they have for exporting tasks and see if there is some intermediate format that can be used. For example: email, Excel, flat text file, etc. I know that the user will have to do some fiddling, but since that is a one time thing, it is acceptable. I realize how hard that can be, especially considering the restrictions iPhone places on all of this.
>>> 3) GED already has a backup feature :) You can go to app settings and backup all your tasks to your email box. To restore just open that email on your iPhone and tap on restore link. <<<
Super. I did not see that. It makes all the difference.
>>> 4) We probably can automate entire AF4 workflow, but I don't want to do that, because I believe not everyone use AF4, and some one has custom workflows. So we want to give the user maximum freedom to do stuff as he likes. <<<
Understood.
>>> 5) task created date and tasks completed date will be added in the v1.1. Task due dates will be also supported in v1.1 but we see them more widely. You can read about that in ideas.gedapp.com <<<
Great.
>>> 6) I am also thinking that we need some kind of categories. But we have a much better idea how to do that. Tags and categories are complex and not very easy to adapt. I tried tags in Things and was not able to create some meaningful tag hierarchy. <<<
Yes, I know how confusing that can be. If nothing else, just add a couple of fields like: F1 and F2 which the user can sort and filter on. Then what F1 means to me can be different than what it means to someone else ... but I'll be able to filter my tasks on it. Of course, you'll all the ability to sort and filter (both) on due date, and such, right?
>>> 7) We will do that. also I am thinking about different paper templates, colors, etc. <<<
Sweeeeeet ;-)
>>> 8) I believe export to Excel should works fine. Excel has really nice analysis features. <<<
I had not even thought of that ... the analysis angle. I was just thinking of printing. But some might like to do analysis. Good idea.
>>> We made very detailed page how to install app while it in review. Just click on In Review button on site's main page. <<<
I read it, and it is very clear. I'm just not sure that I want to do all of that. I'll see if my mood changes in a couple of days ;-)
>>> I would be very happy if you point me into some English errors on main site. I am not a native English guy, so I'll appreciate any help with this. <<<
Your command of English is impressive. English has pitfalls which non-native speakers fall into. The problem is that those can be pervasive. In the case of your documentation, it is mostly errors of "agreement" for want of a better term. Plural terms have to agree, for example. The only way I can describe it is that you have to develop an "ear" for the language. I don't know what is right because of rules, though I can often cite the rule, but becuase it "hurts my ear" when I hear it. That is why I offered to error check for you before you put documentation out there.
>>> And than you for you feedback. I'll add it to ideas.gedapp.com for tracking. <<<
You are entirely welcome.
>>> 1) we are going to make more tutorials, the next one will be: how to use twitter to add new tasks, and how to backup all your tasks <<<
Great. Your tutorial worked well.
>>> 2) yes I know that most of you guys already using some app to manage your tasks. The tough task here is to understand what app is most popular. We will do that in the next versions. <<<
Gotcha. If I were you, I'd look at various applications and see what options they have for exporting tasks and see if there is some intermediate format that can be used. For example: email, Excel, flat text file, etc. I know that the user will have to do some fiddling, but since that is a one time thing, it is acceptable. I realize how hard that can be, especially considering the restrictions iPhone places on all of this.
>>> 3) GED already has a backup feature :) You can go to app settings and backup all your tasks to your email box. To restore just open that email on your iPhone and tap on restore link. <<<
Super. I did not see that. It makes all the difference.
>>> 4) We probably can automate entire AF4 workflow, but I don't want to do that, because I believe not everyone use AF4, and some one has custom workflows. So we want to give the user maximum freedom to do stuff as he likes. <<<
Understood.
>>> 5) task created date and tasks completed date will be added in the v1.1. Task due dates will be also supported in v1.1 but we see them more widely. You can read about that in ideas.gedapp.com <<<
Great.
>>> 6) I am also thinking that we need some kind of categories. But we have a much better idea how to do that. Tags and categories are complex and not very easy to adapt. I tried tags in Things and was not able to create some meaningful tag hierarchy. <<<
Yes, I know how confusing that can be. If nothing else, just add a couple of fields like: F1 and F2 which the user can sort and filter on. Then what F1 means to me can be different than what it means to someone else ... but I'll be able to filter my tasks on it. Of course, you'll all the ability to sort and filter (both) on due date, and such, right?
>>> 7) We will do that. also I am thinking about different paper templates, colors, etc. <<<
Sweeeeeet ;-)
>>> 8) I believe export to Excel should works fine. Excel has really nice analysis features. <<<
I had not even thought of that ... the analysis angle. I was just thinking of printing. But some might like to do analysis. Good idea.
>>> We made very detailed page how to install app while it in review. Just click on In Review button on site's main page. <<<
I read it, and it is very clear. I'm just not sure that I want to do all of that. I'll see if my mood changes in a couple of days ;-)
>>> I would be very happy if you point me into some English errors on main site. I am not a native English guy, so I'll appreciate any help with this. <<<
Your command of English is impressive. English has pitfalls which non-native speakers fall into. The problem is that those can be pervasive. In the case of your documentation, it is mostly errors of "agreement" for want of a better term. Plural terms have to agree, for example. The only way I can describe it is that you have to develop an "ear" for the language. I don't know what is right because of rules, though I can often cite the rule, but becuase it "hurts my ear" when I hear it. That is why I offered to error check for you before you put documentation out there.
>>> And than you for you feedback. I'll add it to ideas.gedapp.com for tracking. <<<
You are entirely welcome.
November 1, 2009 at 9:55 |
Mike
Mike
Alan,
>>> Twitter?! So you can tweet your way through AF4?! What a concept! <<<
Interestingly, perpaps the only useful application for Tweeter will be a way to send information to programs. I'm seeing it more and more.
>>> Twitter?! So you can tweet your way through AF4?! What a concept! <<<
Interestingly, perpaps the only useful application for Tweeter will be a way to send information to programs. I'm seeing it more and more.
November 1, 2009 at 9:58 |
Mike
Mike
Since I'm in the process of figuring out whether I can/should buy an iPhone (vs. e.g. iPod Touch or nothing at all), does this application work when you currently don't have an internet connection? I.e. can I add, complete, review, tasks while offline?
While Tony's application looked impressive and seems to work okay, I must say that your application looks awesome. I'm sure there will be quite a few issues that could be streamlined in terms of user interaction, but so far it looks really nice.
While Tony's application looked impressive and seems to work okay, I must say that your application looks awesome. I'm sure there will be quite a few issues that could be streamlined in terms of user interaction, but so far it looks really nice.
November 2, 2009 at 14:54 |
Tijl Kindt
Tijl Kindt
Hey Mike, here are some comments:
2) bulk import/migration from other tools
I think we are going to support migration from Things and OmniFocus and may be import from some text format for people that using something else then those two great apps.
8) export
Why do you want to print something from app? How are you going to use those printed pages?
9) twitter
Main idea of using Twitter is quickly adding new tasks from your desktop/laptop. If you don’t like to type a lot on iPhone you can twitt your task to GED from desktop. The second case is when you have some new task in your mind and want quickly add it to GED and then go back to your current tasks.
I posted "Using Twitter with GED" tutorial to youtube. It shows how to setup and use Twitter with GED.
thx
alex
2) bulk import/migration from other tools
I think we are going to support migration from Things and OmniFocus and may be import from some text format for people that using something else then those two great apps.
8) export
Why do you want to print something from app? How are you going to use those printed pages?
9) twitter
Main idea of using Twitter is quickly adding new tasks from your desktop/laptop. If you don’t like to type a lot on iPhone you can twitt your task to GED from desktop. The second case is when you have some new task in your mind and want quickly add it to GED and then go back to your current tasks.
I posted "Using Twitter with GED" tutorial to youtube. It shows how to setup and use Twitter with GED.
thx
alex
November 2, 2009 at 16:30 |
Alex
Alex
Hi Tijl
You don’t need any internet connection to work with GED. You can do everything while you offline, even backup your tasks by email.
GED is going to be free and you will be able to try it for free. After you install GED from AppStore you will have 5 pages in your GED organizer. And if you find it works well for you, you will be able to add more pages from GED In-App Store.
Thx
Alex
You don’t need any internet connection to work with GED. You can do everything while you offline, even backup your tasks by email.
GED is going to be free and you will be able to try it for free. After you install GED from AppStore you will have 5 pages in your GED organizer. And if you find it works well for you, you will be able to add more pages from GED In-App Store.
Thx
Alex
November 2, 2009 at 16:35 |
Alex
Alex
Hi Alex,
>>> 2) bulk import/migration from other tools
I think we are going to support migration from Things and OmniFocus and may be import from some text format for people that using something else then those two great apps. <<<
That would probably work. Have you considered Excel? I know you mentioned it elsewhere. I suggest it because ListOmni uses Excel as its interface ... it is apparently a lot of work for anyone to make a desktop application. I am sure text will work as you can import/export from Excel to text. It would just be a tad simpler to use Excel as a desktop substitute.
>>> 8) export
Why do you want to print something from app? How are you going to use those printed pages? <<<
Nothing at all, actually. I was just representing those who seem to need a printed copy to carry. I think the reason they do is that they like to see a lot in a single view, rather than page up and down. For my part, I am fine without it.
>>> I posted "Using Twitter with GED" tutorial to youtube. It shows how to setup and use Twitter with GED. <<<
I'll check it out.
>>> 2) bulk import/migration from other tools
I think we are going to support migration from Things and OmniFocus and may be import from some text format for people that using something else then those two great apps. <<<
That would probably work. Have you considered Excel? I know you mentioned it elsewhere. I suggest it because ListOmni uses Excel as its interface ... it is apparently a lot of work for anyone to make a desktop application. I am sure text will work as you can import/export from Excel to text. It would just be a tad simpler to use Excel as a desktop substitute.
>>> 8) export
Why do you want to print something from app? How are you going to use those printed pages? <<<
Nothing at all, actually. I was just representing those who seem to need a printed copy to carry. I think the reason they do is that they like to see a lot in a single view, rather than page up and down. For my part, I am fine without it.
>>> I posted "Using Twitter with GED" tutorial to youtube. It shows how to setup and use Twitter with GED. <<<
I'll check it out.
November 2, 2009 at 18:46 |
Mike
Mike
Hi,
Damm just switch from iphone to Android phone.
Abu chance get an Android version?
Damm just switch from iphone to Android phone.
Abu chance get an Android version?
November 3, 2009 at 6:15 |
steve s.
steve s.
Hey Steve,
Android is very promising platform and now it has first good device - Motorola Droid.
We are going to port GED to Android when app will be mature enough and will have all that must have features like, task dates, categories, import etc. It probably happen early next year.
Android is very promising platform and now it has first good device - Motorola Droid.
We are going to port GED to Android when app will be mature enough and will have all that must have features like, task dates, categories, import etc. It probably happen early next year.
November 3, 2009 at 16:23 |
Alex
Alex
Hi,
I also use an android phone so count on me for beta testning ;)
Henrik Ekenberg
I also use an android phone so count on me for beta testning ;)
Henrik Ekenberg
November 3, 2009 at 21:03 |
Henrik Ekenberg
Henrik Ekenberg
Hi Alex,
I have just installed the GED Ad Hoc version you sent me and am really enjoying the app so far. The interface is attractive and fun, and it makes using the app a real pleasure. By all means, offer options for users to customize the look and feel of the app (as Mike suggests), but I think you have done a great job on this.
From an Autofocus point of view, I would love to see some kind of "tickler" mechanism built in to the app - with a repeating function, if possible.
Other than that, my only qualm is the use of in-app purchasing for additional notebook pages. I do not have a problem with it in principle, but I think you have to err on the side of caution with regards to pricing of the refill pages. I can see some people blasting through 100 pages in no time at all, and they're going to get annoyed having to pay for more pages too frequently. Also, I think you have to prepare yourself for a string of negative reviews from people will dowload the app for "Free" and then resent having to pay for refills.
Will give more feedback once I have been using the app for a little while more.
Trevor
I have just installed the GED Ad Hoc version you sent me and am really enjoying the app so far. The interface is attractive and fun, and it makes using the app a real pleasure. By all means, offer options for users to customize the look and feel of the app (as Mike suggests), but I think you have done a great job on this.
From an Autofocus point of view, I would love to see some kind of "tickler" mechanism built in to the app - with a repeating function, if possible.
Other than that, my only qualm is the use of in-app purchasing for additional notebook pages. I do not have a problem with it in principle, but I think you have to err on the side of caution with regards to pricing of the refill pages. I can see some people blasting through 100 pages in no time at all, and they're going to get annoyed having to pay for more pages too frequently. Also, I think you have to prepare yourself for a string of negative reviews from people will dowload the app for "Free" and then resent having to pay for refills.
Will give more feedback once I have been using the app for a little while more.
Trevor
November 5, 2009 at 12:35 |
Trevor
Trevor
Trevor,
>>> Other than that, my only qualm is the use of in-app purchasing for additional notebook pages. I do not have a problem with it in principle, but I think you have to err on the side of caution with regards to pricing of the refill pages. I can see some people blasting through 100 pages in no time at all, and they're going to get annoyed having to pay for more pages too frequently. Also, I think you have to prepare yourself for a string of negative reviews from people will dowload the app for "Free" and then resent having to pay for refills. <<<
Mmmm, YEAH! But would be a non-starter. Do you really think that is Alex's pricing model? I thought that he meant that there would be a "free version" for trial and then you could purchase an unlimited version for some small price ... maybe $0.99 or so ... which is the common price for iPhone applications. I can't imagine that he plans to sell the application by the page.
>>> Other than that, my only qualm is the use of in-app purchasing for additional notebook pages. I do not have a problem with it in principle, but I think you have to err on the side of caution with regards to pricing of the refill pages. I can see some people blasting through 100 pages in no time at all, and they're going to get annoyed having to pay for more pages too frequently. Also, I think you have to prepare yourself for a string of negative reviews from people will dowload the app for "Free" and then resent having to pay for refills. <<<
Mmmm, YEAH! But would be a non-starter. Do you really think that is Alex's pricing model? I thought that he meant that there would be a "free version" for trial and then you could purchase an unlimited version for some small price ... maybe $0.99 or so ... which is the common price for iPhone applications. I can't imagine that he plans to sell the application by the page.
November 5, 2009 at 12:57 |
Mike
Mike
Hi Mike,
I only have the Ad Hoc version installed, so I can't say - at the moment - whether the finished version will have the same pricing model. There is a countdown setting in the settings which shows how many pages you have left - at the moment I have 91. When I click on the countdown there is the option to buy another 100 pages for $2.99.
As I said, I don't have a problem with the concept in principle, but I think there should be tiered pricing for the refill pages.
Alex was kind enough to provide me with an Ad Hoc version with 100 pages to start, and I am down to 91 already. The app store version only has 5 pages to start according to Alex's post above, which I'm already convinced isn't enough to give people enough time with the app to decide whether it really is right for them.
Based on my limited use of the app so far, I am really enjoying it. However, if the pricing model isn't right, with plenty of choice and really generous refill bundles, I can see the app getting a lot of flak in the app store.
I only have the Ad Hoc version installed, so I can't say - at the moment - whether the finished version will have the same pricing model. There is a countdown setting in the settings which shows how many pages you have left - at the moment I have 91. When I click on the countdown there is the option to buy another 100 pages for $2.99.
As I said, I don't have a problem with the concept in principle, but I think there should be tiered pricing for the refill pages.
Alex was kind enough to provide me with an Ad Hoc version with 100 pages to start, and I am down to 91 already. The app store version only has 5 pages to start according to Alex's post above, which I'm already convinced isn't enough to give people enough time with the app to decide whether it really is right for them.
Based on my limited use of the app so far, I am really enjoying it. However, if the pricing model isn't right, with plenty of choice and really generous refill bundles, I can see the app getting a lot of flak in the app store.
November 5, 2009 at 14:30 |
Trevor
Trevor
Forget the 2.99 refill... the Gucci alligator skin was enough of a turn off for me.
November 5, 2009 at 14:57 |
Avrum
Avrum
Hey Trevor, Mike
Txh a lot for your feedback.
The pricing models is simple. Initially app is free. When you install it you have 5 pages in your organizer. I believe it would be enough to make some impression about app. When you run out of 5 free pages you have to buy 100 pages refill bundle for 2.99$. When you run out for your 100 pages, you have to buy refill bundle again.
Each page can have 8 tasks, so you buy 800 tasks for 2.99$. I am doing about ~10 tasks daily, so 100 pages will be enough for me for about 2.5 month. As for me 2.99$ for two month not a big money if app is really helpful. . I am paying more for BigMac that is really junk But I am still expecting a lot of complaints about that.
What do you think? Is my math is wrong?
Txh a lot for your feedback.
The pricing models is simple. Initially app is free. When you install it you have 5 pages in your organizer. I believe it would be enough to make some impression about app. When you run out of 5 free pages you have to buy 100 pages refill bundle for 2.99$. When you run out for your 100 pages, you have to buy refill bundle again.
Each page can have 8 tasks, so you buy 800 tasks for 2.99$. I am doing about ~10 tasks daily, so 100 pages will be enough for me for about 2.5 month. As for me 2.99$ for two month not a big money if app is really helpful. . I am paying more for BigMac that is really junk But I am still expecting a lot of complaints about that.
What do you think? Is my math is wrong?
November 5, 2009 at 16:34 |
Alex
Alex
Hi Alex,
For what it's worth, I'm another person who's immediately turned off by both the pricing model, and the look of the app.
Pricing: Although it's true that, depending on one's usage, it might not be a lot of money in the grand scheme of things, it is a lot more money than one has to spend for similar apps (even if most of them aren't quite as well suited to AF). And quite apart from the money, there's the hassle factor of having to actually stop working one's list to purchase more pages every so often.
Look: Tastes vary, of course, but I'm quite put off by the alligator skin (like Avrum), the look of the pages themselves, and the choice of font. I wouldn't mention this if I didn't think that there are probably lots and lots of iPhone users like me – especially all the Mac users. The look of the app is very much at odds with the dominant Mac aesthetic, and that's surely taking a risk. Anyway, maybe it's superficial to disregard what maybe great function for reasons of form, but if so, it's clear from the blogs, reviews, etc., I read, that there are lots of similarly superficial people out there. I didn't even really explore the app once I'd seen how it looked (and this was before I knew about the pricing). I say this not to just be critical, but in the hope that it's useful feedback.
For what it's worth, I'm another person who's immediately turned off by both the pricing model, and the look of the app.
Pricing: Although it's true that, depending on one's usage, it might not be a lot of money in the grand scheme of things, it is a lot more money than one has to spend for similar apps (even if most of them aren't quite as well suited to AF). And quite apart from the money, there's the hassle factor of having to actually stop working one's list to purchase more pages every so often.
Look: Tastes vary, of course, but I'm quite put off by the alligator skin (like Avrum), the look of the pages themselves, and the choice of font. I wouldn't mention this if I didn't think that there are probably lots and lots of iPhone users like me – especially all the Mac users. The look of the app is very much at odds with the dominant Mac aesthetic, and that's surely taking a risk. Anyway, maybe it's superficial to disregard what maybe great function for reasons of form, but if so, it's clear from the blogs, reviews, etc., I read, that there are lots of similarly superficial people out there. I didn't even really explore the app once I'd seen how it looked (and this was before I knew about the pricing). I say this not to just be critical, but in the hope that it's useful feedback.
November 5, 2009 at 16:52 |
Martin
Martin
If you follow the AF notion of little and often, you could do 50 tasks (usually the same ones) in a day. Is that more expensive? I'd hope not, as I wouldn't want a pricing model to influence how I worked.
November 5, 2009 at 17:07 |
Alan Baljeu
Alan Baljeu
If you are doing around 50 tasks per day, you would have to buy a refill every couple of weeks, which would cost around $75 per year at the current pricing. To be honest, even $2.99 per month seems expensive to me.
November 5, 2009 at 19:40 |
Trevor
Trevor
Really odd. FocusPad does AF almost perfectly, and web-sync is right around the corner (I'm Beta testing now). And the app is (drum roll)...
0.99. One dollar.
Choosing between these two products seems like a no-brainer IMHO.
0.99. One dollar.
Choosing between these two products seems like a no-brainer IMHO.
November 5, 2009 at 20:06 |
Avrum
Avrum
From my experience with both apps, I have to say that I prefer both the look and feel of GED, including the alligator skin splash screen. Don't get me wrong: FocusPad is functional and works really well for Autofocus, but I do prefer apps to have a bit of visual pizzazz. GED puts a bit of fun into the whole process. Call me superficial, but I am prepared to pay a little bit of a premium for that - but the price has to be right.
November 5, 2009 at 21:16 |
Trevor
Trevor
I believe you guys are right. If someone do 50 tasks a day 2.99$ for 100 pages is a lot. I am going to make price lower.
There is two ways how developers are doing their apps:
1) spend 1 month on app, sell it for 0.99$, make some money and forget about it forever
2) spend 4 month on app. sell it for 10.00$, make next versions free, add features, promote it, make it better and better.
I am form the second category and I want to do my app better. I dont want to sell app for 0.99$ like most of junk apps in AppStore.
Right now it doesn't have a lot of features, but it will. Right now you might not want to pay this money for it, but in month I believe you will think differently. And I am not going to sell it right now for 1.99$ and make it 2.99$ next month, and 3.99$ after new year.
thx
alex
There is two ways how developers are doing their apps:
1) spend 1 month on app, sell it for 0.99$, make some money and forget about it forever
2) spend 4 month on app. sell it for 10.00$, make next versions free, add features, promote it, make it better and better.
I am form the second category and I want to do my app better. I dont want to sell app for 0.99$ like most of junk apps in AppStore.
Right now it doesn't have a lot of features, but it will. Right now you might not want to pay this money for it, but in month I believe you will think differently. And I am not going to sell it right now for 1.99$ and make it 2.99$ next month, and 3.99$ after new year.
thx
alex
November 5, 2009 at 22:19 |
Alex
Alex
Alex
I'd be okay with paying more than 99c for the 'right' app (I actually paid $10 last year for Appigo's To Do app which incidentally is still priced at that level and selling well) However, as Alan suggested, the idea of charging for pages would probably have an impact (albeit subtle) on the way I use AF. It just seems a little nonsensical for an electronic app.
The To Do app marketplace is clearly pretty crowded with RTM, Toodledo etc all having excellent apps. However, I've never come across a 'per task' pricing model before - would be be a real show stopper for me.
Also, for what it's worth, I think that one of the main attractions of Focuspad is its simplicity - I don't end up wasting time constantly playing with different views, folders, tags etc..
Martin
I'd be okay with paying more than 99c for the 'right' app (I actually paid $10 last year for Appigo's To Do app which incidentally is still priced at that level and selling well) However, as Alan suggested, the idea of charging for pages would probably have an impact (albeit subtle) on the way I use AF. It just seems a little nonsensical for an electronic app.
The To Do app marketplace is clearly pretty crowded with RTM, Toodledo etc all having excellent apps. However, I've never come across a 'per task' pricing model before - would be be a real show stopper for me.
Also, for what it's worth, I think that one of the main attractions of Focuspad is its simplicity - I don't end up wasting time constantly playing with different views, folders, tags etc..
Martin
November 5, 2009 at 23:06 |
Martin H
Martin H
Hi Alex,
>>. The pricing models is simple. Initially app is free. When you install it you have 5 pages in your organizer. I believe it would be enough to make some impression about app. When you run out of 5 free pages you have to buy 100 pages refill bundle for 2.99$. When you run out for your 100 pages, you have to buy refill bundle again. <<<
Ooops. That rules it out for me. I would not even bother testing it given that marketing model.
>>> Each page can have 8 tasks, so you buy 800 tasks for 2.99$. I am doing about ~10 tasks daily, so 100 pages will be enough for me for about 2.5 month. As for me 2.99$ for two month not a big money if app is really helpful. . I am paying more for BigMac that is really junk But I am still expecting a lot of complaints about that.
What do you think? Is my math is wrong? <<<
It is not your math that is wrong. What is wrong is the basic marketing model. It is a basic rent vs. buy problem. I'm a "buy" kind of guy ;-) Once I decide I like something, I don't want to pay for it over and over. Once is enough for me. This is especially true of a software package. There is really no justification for paying more than once for a product. After all, once it is purchased, there is nothing more to buy. What is the value added? What is the justification for the nickle and dime approach?
If it is a question of buying bandwith, or storage space, or upgrades to the function of a software package ... then I can see it. An ISP is giving me something for each payment I make. The seller of backup services is maintaining a disk farm for me and keeping it running and backed up. If I don't want new function in a product I don't have to buy it ... but the product will not STOP running. In the model you have decided on (assuming your mind is made up) you are selling me something that will just stop working if I don't continually pay you ... pay you for what? That is the question. I guess it is bothersome because that question has no answer.
The other aspect is the old "Is this really too much to pay if it helps you?" challenge. It is not new. We are asked to "invest" in a product, not "buy" it ... by the sellers of encyclopedias and audio courses, with that technique. The thing is, that kind of involves the seller of a product into my life in a way that repulses me. I don't want someone measuring what things might be worth to me, in that way. It may be, as you say, that I can get more than two months of use of a product for the price of a burger, but that is beside the point. I don't compare burgers and software in that way.
The local health club here is selling their membership fee with the argument that it costs less than a Starbucks coffee every day. So what? What does coffee have to do with a gym membership? Nothing. It is just a marketing technique that confuses people when they can't figure out how to answer the question ... and while they are confused, the salesman slips a pen into their hands to sign on the dotted line. LOL ;-) The answer is really this: Am I likely to stop drinking coffee now that I have the gym membership? That is the basic flaw in the argument. It is not a trade, it is an ADDITION.
I don't know if I explained it, but the whole idea of buying a product that is intentionally "broken", then paying someone to keep it running, is repugnant to me. It feels a bit like extortion. "Hey, you want to keep using your program? Then pay Vinnie here every month. Oh, and for just a bit more we'll make sure you don't have a fire." LOL ;-)
Others may have a different view, of course.
>>. The pricing models is simple. Initially app is free. When you install it you have 5 pages in your organizer. I believe it would be enough to make some impression about app. When you run out of 5 free pages you have to buy 100 pages refill bundle for 2.99$. When you run out for your 100 pages, you have to buy refill bundle again. <<<
Ooops. That rules it out for me. I would not even bother testing it given that marketing model.
>>> Each page can have 8 tasks, so you buy 800 tasks for 2.99$. I am doing about ~10 tasks daily, so 100 pages will be enough for me for about 2.5 month. As for me 2.99$ for two month not a big money if app is really helpful. . I am paying more for BigMac that is really junk But I am still expecting a lot of complaints about that.
What do you think? Is my math is wrong? <<<
It is not your math that is wrong. What is wrong is the basic marketing model. It is a basic rent vs. buy problem. I'm a "buy" kind of guy ;-) Once I decide I like something, I don't want to pay for it over and over. Once is enough for me. This is especially true of a software package. There is really no justification for paying more than once for a product. After all, once it is purchased, there is nothing more to buy. What is the value added? What is the justification for the nickle and dime approach?
If it is a question of buying bandwith, or storage space, or upgrades to the function of a software package ... then I can see it. An ISP is giving me something for each payment I make. The seller of backup services is maintaining a disk farm for me and keeping it running and backed up. If I don't want new function in a product I don't have to buy it ... but the product will not STOP running. In the model you have decided on (assuming your mind is made up) you are selling me something that will just stop working if I don't continually pay you ... pay you for what? That is the question. I guess it is bothersome because that question has no answer.
The other aspect is the old "Is this really too much to pay if it helps you?" challenge. It is not new. We are asked to "invest" in a product, not "buy" it ... by the sellers of encyclopedias and audio courses, with that technique. The thing is, that kind of involves the seller of a product into my life in a way that repulses me. I don't want someone measuring what things might be worth to me, in that way. It may be, as you say, that I can get more than two months of use of a product for the price of a burger, but that is beside the point. I don't compare burgers and software in that way.
The local health club here is selling their membership fee with the argument that it costs less than a Starbucks coffee every day. So what? What does coffee have to do with a gym membership? Nothing. It is just a marketing technique that confuses people when they can't figure out how to answer the question ... and while they are confused, the salesman slips a pen into their hands to sign on the dotted line. LOL ;-) The answer is really this: Am I likely to stop drinking coffee now that I have the gym membership? That is the basic flaw in the argument. It is not a trade, it is an ADDITION.
I don't know if I explained it, but the whole idea of buying a product that is intentionally "broken", then paying someone to keep it running, is repugnant to me. It feels a bit like extortion. "Hey, you want to keep using your program? Then pay Vinnie here every month. Oh, and for just a bit more we'll make sure you don't have a fire." LOL ;-)
Others may have a different view, of course.
November 5, 2009 at 23:58 |
Mike
Mike
Martin,
>>> For what it's worth, I'm another person who's immediately turned off by both the pricing model, and the look of the app. <<<
I would probably not have given it quite the same look but it is not all THAT bad ;-)
>>> Pricing: Although it's true that, depending on one's usage, it might not be a lot of money in the grand scheme of things, it is a lot more money than one has to spend for similar apps (even if most of them aren't quite as well suited to AF). And quite apart from the money, there's the hassle factor of having to actually stop working one's list to purchase more pages every so often. <<<
Exactly. And what exactly IS the grand scheme of things? ;-) Personally, I am concerned that I'd start thinking about how to enter tasks "economically" and not as dictated by my personal context. It just adds confusion.
>>> Look: Tastes vary, of course, but I'm quite put off by the alligator skin (like Avrum), the look of the pages themselves, and the choice of font. I wouldn't mention this if I didn't think that there are probably lots and lots of iPhone users like me – especially all the Mac users. The look of the app is very much at odds with the dominant Mac aesthetic, and that's surely taking a risk. <<<
Yes, but all iPhone users are not Mac users, nor do they particularly care about "Mac aesthetic".
>>> Anyway, maybe it's superficial to disregard what maybe great function for reasons of form, but if so, it's clear from the blogs, reviews, etc., I read, that there are lots of similarly superficial people out there. <<<
LOL ;-) ;-)
>>> For what it's worth, I'm another person who's immediately turned off by both the pricing model, and the look of the app. <<<
I would probably not have given it quite the same look but it is not all THAT bad ;-)
>>> Pricing: Although it's true that, depending on one's usage, it might not be a lot of money in the grand scheme of things, it is a lot more money than one has to spend for similar apps (even if most of them aren't quite as well suited to AF). And quite apart from the money, there's the hassle factor of having to actually stop working one's list to purchase more pages every so often. <<<
Exactly. And what exactly IS the grand scheme of things? ;-) Personally, I am concerned that I'd start thinking about how to enter tasks "economically" and not as dictated by my personal context. It just adds confusion.
>>> Look: Tastes vary, of course, but I'm quite put off by the alligator skin (like Avrum), the look of the pages themselves, and the choice of font. I wouldn't mention this if I didn't think that there are probably lots and lots of iPhone users like me – especially all the Mac users. The look of the app is very much at odds with the dominant Mac aesthetic, and that's surely taking a risk. <<<
Yes, but all iPhone users are not Mac users, nor do they particularly care about "Mac aesthetic".
>>> Anyway, maybe it's superficial to disregard what maybe great function for reasons of form, but if so, it's clear from the blogs, reviews, etc., I read, that there are lots of similarly superficial people out there. <<<
LOL ;-) ;-)
November 6, 2009 at 0:09 |
Mike
Mike
Alan,
>>> If you follow the AF notion of little and often, you could do 50 tasks (usually the same ones) in a day. Is that more expensive? I'd hope not, as I wouldn't want a pricing model to influence how I worked. <<<
Yes, that is what I was trying to say ... but you said it much better.
>>> If you follow the AF notion of little and often, you could do 50 tasks (usually the same ones) in a day. Is that more expensive? I'd hope not, as I wouldn't want a pricing model to influence how I worked. <<<
Yes, that is what I was trying to say ... but you said it much better.
November 6, 2009 at 0:11 |
Mike
Mike
Alex,
>>> I believe you guys are right. If someone do 50 tasks a day 2.99$ for 100 pages is a lot. I am going to make price lower. <<<
I believe you are going to have to abandon the "rental" model and sell it outright.
>>> I dont want to sell app for 0.99$ like most of junk apps in AppStore. <<<
To be fair, there are some very fine apps in the store for $0.99. Yes, there is lots of junk, but also many good ones.
>>> Right now it doesn't have a lot of features, but it will. Right now you might not want to pay this money for it, but in month I believe you will think differently. And I am not going to sell it right now for 1.99$ and make it 2.99$ next month, and 3.99$ after new year. <<<
I understand your dilemma. But there is some precedent for raising price as features increase. And it becomes a question of letting the market tell you what it wants. You'll have to convince people to pay you a second fee because your upgrades are worth it to them.
>>> I believe you guys are right. If someone do 50 tasks a day 2.99$ for 100 pages is a lot. I am going to make price lower. <<<
I believe you are going to have to abandon the "rental" model and sell it outright.
>>> I dont want to sell app for 0.99$ like most of junk apps in AppStore. <<<
To be fair, there are some very fine apps in the store for $0.99. Yes, there is lots of junk, but also many good ones.
>>> Right now it doesn't have a lot of features, but it will. Right now you might not want to pay this money for it, but in month I believe you will think differently. And I am not going to sell it right now for 1.99$ and make it 2.99$ next month, and 3.99$ after new year. <<<
I understand your dilemma. But there is some precedent for raising price as features increase. And it becomes a question of letting the market tell you what it wants. You'll have to convince people to pay you a second fee because your upgrades are worth it to them.
November 6, 2009 at 0:19 |
Mike
Mike
Martin,
>>>I'd be okay with paying more than 99c for the 'right' app (I actually paid $10 last year for Appigo's To Do app which incidentally is still priced at that level and selling well) <<<
I paid a few bucks for ListOmni because it did lots of things.
>>> However, as Alan suggested, the idea of charging for pages would probably have an impact (albeit subtle) on the way I use AF. It just seems a little nonsensical for an electronic app. <<<
Indeed.
>>> The To Do app marketplace is clearly pretty crowded with RTM, Toodledo etc all having excellent apps. However, I've never come across a 'per task' pricing model before - would be be a real show stopper for me. <<<
Exactly.
>>> Also, for what it's worth, I think that one of the main attractions of Focuspad is its simplicity - I don't end up wasting time constantly playing with different views, folders, tags etc.. <<<
But then that is the value of options, no? I mean, some like tags and others don't. If they are then you can choose to NOT use them ... but if they are not there you cannot decide to use them. One reason that people end up trying lots of applications is that none of them does exactly what they want.
>>>I'd be okay with paying more than 99c for the 'right' app (I actually paid $10 last year for Appigo's To Do app which incidentally is still priced at that level and selling well) <<<
I paid a few bucks for ListOmni because it did lots of things.
>>> However, as Alan suggested, the idea of charging for pages would probably have an impact (albeit subtle) on the way I use AF. It just seems a little nonsensical for an electronic app. <<<
Indeed.
>>> The To Do app marketplace is clearly pretty crowded with RTM, Toodledo etc all having excellent apps. However, I've never come across a 'per task' pricing model before - would be be a real show stopper for me. <<<
Exactly.
>>> Also, for what it's worth, I think that one of the main attractions of Focuspad is its simplicity - I don't end up wasting time constantly playing with different views, folders, tags etc.. <<<
But then that is the value of options, no? I mean, some like tags and others don't. If they are then you can choose to NOT use them ... but if they are not there you cannot decide to use them. One reason that people end up trying lots of applications is that none of them does exactly what they want.
November 6, 2009 at 0:25 |
Mike
Mike
Hey Mike,
Your arguments are really good. But what about these one:
1) I am not going to buy paper notebook because it’s “initially broken” and doesn’t have unlimited number of paper to write on. To make it work I’ll need to buy more and more, probably every week if I am writing a lot of text. I am thinking about that notebook’s manufacturers could probably make it with unlimited paper by delivering new refills every month to my door for free
2) I am not going to buy a car because then I would need to spend 30$ weekly for gas.
3) I am not going to buy any virtual goods like new weapon or shields in “World of Warcraft” because they are not real and I already bought game software.
All our points of view is just a matter of relation to how world is working right now. If rest of todo apps would charge for page/task/color/num of runs/anything else, we probably going to think that GED business model is quite right. If someone would sell cars with unlimited gas refill, we probably going to think that GED business model is wrong.
Anyway I am sure that I have to change how things are works. Here is my variant in order of “correctness”:
1) Have one app version, but sell 100 pages for 0.99$
2) Have one app version, but sell unlimited pages from it for 2.99$ or higher?
3) Have two app versions, one lite with 5 pages, one Pro with unlimited num of pages for 2.99$ or higher
Thx
alex
Mike, Martin, Trevor, what do you think is the best model?
Your arguments are really good. But what about these one:
1) I am not going to buy paper notebook because it’s “initially broken” and doesn’t have unlimited number of paper to write on. To make it work I’ll need to buy more and more, probably every week if I am writing a lot of text. I am thinking about that notebook’s manufacturers could probably make it with unlimited paper by delivering new refills every month to my door for free
2) I am not going to buy a car because then I would need to spend 30$ weekly for gas.
3) I am not going to buy any virtual goods like new weapon or shields in “World of Warcraft” because they are not real and I already bought game software.
All our points of view is just a matter of relation to how world is working right now. If rest of todo apps would charge for page/task/color/num of runs/anything else, we probably going to think that GED business model is quite right. If someone would sell cars with unlimited gas refill, we probably going to think that GED business model is wrong.
Anyway I am sure that I have to change how things are works. Here is my variant in order of “correctness”:
1) Have one app version, but sell 100 pages for 0.99$
2) Have one app version, but sell unlimited pages from it for 2.99$ or higher?
3) Have two app versions, one lite with 5 pages, one Pro with unlimited num of pages for 2.99$ or higher
Thx
alex
Mike, Martin, Trevor, what do you think is the best model?
November 6, 2009 at 0:36 |
Alex
Alex
Store in App already have "nice" price per 100 pages - it's 2.99$
... like buy new moleskine each half year :)
... like buy new moleskine each half year :)
November 6, 2009 at 7:55 |
rams2kola
rams2kola
But I'm agree that it's good alternative for paper ...I'm use this app one day and still have 93 pages left. Seems to me I'll spend that pages in couple month.
November 6, 2009 at 8:04 |
rams2kola
rams2kola
Hi Again Alex,
>>> Your arguments are really good. But what about these one:
1) I am not going to buy paper notebook because it’s “initially broken” and doesn’t have unlimited number of paper to write on. To make it work I’ll need to buy more and more, probably every week if I am writing a lot of text. I am thinking about that notebook’s manufacturers could probably make it with unlimited paper by delivering new refills every month to my door for free <<<
Well, a notebook is a physical thing. The manufacturer is providing new paper each time and it costs him to do so. He has to go out and cut down trees. Software is ... well, soft ... it has no physical existence. In the case of software it must be intentionally made to stop working to force a person to pay more money to have the function he has already paid for.
>>> 2) I am not going to buy a car because then I would need to spend 30$ weekly for gas. <<<
As above, the car manufacturer is selllng you the car and you know it takes gas to run it. The car manufacturer is not coming out every morning at disconnecting things to make the car stop running unless you pay HIM money not to.
>>> 3) I am not going to buy any virtual goods like new weapon or shields in “World of Warcraft” because they are not real and I already bought game software. <<<
Yes, exactly ... if I understand what you are saying. If the manufacturer breaks the software so you have to pay more, then that is a form of extortion, in my view. (Unless you are saying that those things are upgrades of some kind.)
>>> All our points of view is just a matter of relation to how world is working right now. If rest of todo apps would charge for page/task/color/num of runs/anything else, we probably going to think that GED business model is quite right. If someone would sell cars with unlimited gas refill, we probably going to think that GED business model is wrong. <<<
Two points there ...
1) What people do or don't do with who they sell things does not make things what they really are,
2) That said, if a business model works, then it is probably best to follow it rather than invent a new one. While it is possible that you could come up with a ground breaking new business model that would amaze the world ;-) it is more likely that people would just turn on you and your product would not get off the ground.
>>> Anyway I am sure that I have to change how things are works. Here is my variant in order of “correctness”:
1) Have one app version, but sell 100 pages for 0.99$
2) Have one app version, but sell unlimited pages from it for 2.99$ or higher?
3) Have two app versions, one lite with 5 pages, one Pro with unlimited num of pages for 2.99$ or higher
Mike, Martin, Trevor, what do you think is the best model? <<<
The best model is the one that works best. Looking at what works in the iPhone market it seems to be:
- Provide a free app for people to evaluate. The limited number of records is one way that is commonly used. Nag screens or initialization delays are another then,
- Sell a fully functional application for some price. What price? It seems that this kind of application typically sells in the $0.99 to $1.99 range. The ones that fetch more money have more function.
Also, it is worth considering that lower price points sell more units and so the overall income is more likely to be higher. Oh, and one thing you don't want to do is get a negative buzz going. The iPhone has a broad following and some of them are pretty nuts. Once they get on your case they start talking it up and you end up fighting a bad image.
>>> Your arguments are really good. But what about these one:
1) I am not going to buy paper notebook because it’s “initially broken” and doesn’t have unlimited number of paper to write on. To make it work I’ll need to buy more and more, probably every week if I am writing a lot of text. I am thinking about that notebook’s manufacturers could probably make it with unlimited paper by delivering new refills every month to my door for free <<<
Well, a notebook is a physical thing. The manufacturer is providing new paper each time and it costs him to do so. He has to go out and cut down trees. Software is ... well, soft ... it has no physical existence. In the case of software it must be intentionally made to stop working to force a person to pay more money to have the function he has already paid for.
>>> 2) I am not going to buy a car because then I would need to spend 30$ weekly for gas. <<<
As above, the car manufacturer is selllng you the car and you know it takes gas to run it. The car manufacturer is not coming out every morning at disconnecting things to make the car stop running unless you pay HIM money not to.
>>> 3) I am not going to buy any virtual goods like new weapon or shields in “World of Warcraft” because they are not real and I already bought game software. <<<
Yes, exactly ... if I understand what you are saying. If the manufacturer breaks the software so you have to pay more, then that is a form of extortion, in my view. (Unless you are saying that those things are upgrades of some kind.)
>>> All our points of view is just a matter of relation to how world is working right now. If rest of todo apps would charge for page/task/color/num of runs/anything else, we probably going to think that GED business model is quite right. If someone would sell cars with unlimited gas refill, we probably going to think that GED business model is wrong. <<<
Two points there ...
1) What people do or don't do with who they sell things does not make things what they really are,
2) That said, if a business model works, then it is probably best to follow it rather than invent a new one. While it is possible that you could come up with a ground breaking new business model that would amaze the world ;-) it is more likely that people would just turn on you and your product would not get off the ground.
>>> Anyway I am sure that I have to change how things are works. Here is my variant in order of “correctness”:
1) Have one app version, but sell 100 pages for 0.99$
2) Have one app version, but sell unlimited pages from it for 2.99$ or higher?
3) Have two app versions, one lite with 5 pages, one Pro with unlimited num of pages for 2.99$ or higher
Mike, Martin, Trevor, what do you think is the best model? <<<
The best model is the one that works best. Looking at what works in the iPhone market it seems to be:
- Provide a free app for people to evaluate. The limited number of records is one way that is commonly used. Nag screens or initialization delays are another then,
- Sell a fully functional application for some price. What price? It seems that this kind of application typically sells in the $0.99 to $1.99 range. The ones that fetch more money have more function.
Also, it is worth considering that lower price points sell more units and so the overall income is more likely to be higher. Oh, and one thing you don't want to do is get a negative buzz going. The iPhone has a broad following and some of them are pretty nuts. Once they get on your case they start talking it up and you end up fighting a bad image.
November 6, 2009 at 10:31 |
Mike
Mike
>>> Store in App already have "nice" price per 100 pages - it's 2.99$
... like buy new moleskine each half year :) <<<
Yes, but two things worth noting:
1) it is not a notebook ... it is software. The two are not the same, except in your mind, if you choose to make them the same.
2) I would never spend that kind of money on a blank book. I've never run with the stampeding heard on the whole Moleskine thing. I suspect that most people are like me in that regard ... they think that $20 for paper is crazy nuts.
... like buy new moleskine each half year :) <<<
Yes, but two things worth noting:
1) it is not a notebook ... it is software. The two are not the same, except in your mind, if you choose to make them the same.
2) I would never spend that kind of money on a blank book. I've never run with the stampeding heard on the whole Moleskine thing. I suspect that most people are like me in that regard ... they think that $20 for paper is crazy nuts.
November 6, 2009 at 10:37 |
Mike
Mike
Alex... know this. There's a gabillion to-do apps on iTunes. There's only so many time-management nerds out there. And there's only so many AF fans out of those. Your market share for GED is very, very small (and many in the AF community use paper).
November 6, 2009 at 13:00 |
Avrum
Avrum
GED has a broader market than just current AF users. It's name will attract lots of people looking for a TODO list manager.
November 6, 2009 at 14:16 |
Alan Baljeu
Alan Baljeu
Hi Alex,
I think the best option for you is to offer GED in both a free Lite version and a paid for Unlimited version - it cuts down on confusion for the average user. <b>Make it clear in the description for the Unlimited version that there is a Lite version which people can try before they buy the unlimited one<b/>.
Pricing for the unlimited version is tricky. I think you should set a low price initially, perhaps $2.99 or less to draw in new users and hopefully get a few good reviews. Update the app frequently, and experiment with raising prices incrementally.
GED is showing up when I do a search of the app store, so I guess it must have been approved by Apple. I haven't downloaded it yet because I'm still using the Ad Hoc version. I think you need to simplify the promotional info and encourage people more clearly to watch the video on your website, which does a better job of explaining what GED does.
Unfortunately, there is nothing in your promotional info which says that people are going to have to pay for more pages when they reach their limit. I think that's a recipe for disaster, frankly, and <b>I would pull the app from the app store before any damage is done</b>.
As I've said before, I really like the look and feel of GED, and would certainly consider paying for it at the right price.
I think the best option for you is to offer GED in both a free Lite version and a paid for Unlimited version - it cuts down on confusion for the average user. <b>Make it clear in the description for the Unlimited version that there is a Lite version which people can try before they buy the unlimited one<b/>.
Pricing for the unlimited version is tricky. I think you should set a low price initially, perhaps $2.99 or less to draw in new users and hopefully get a few good reviews. Update the app frequently, and experiment with raising prices incrementally.
GED is showing up when I do a search of the app store, so I guess it must have been approved by Apple. I haven't downloaded it yet because I'm still using the Ad Hoc version. I think you need to simplify the promotional info and encourage people more clearly to watch the video on your website, which does a better job of explaining what GED does.
Unfortunately, there is nothing in your promotional info which says that people are going to have to pay for more pages when they reach their limit. I think that's a recipe for disaster, frankly, and <b>I would pull the app from the app store before any damage is done</b>.
As I've said before, I really like the look and feel of GED, and would certainly consider paying for it at the right price.
November 6, 2009 at 14:24 |
Trevor
Trevor
"GED has a broader market than just current AF users. It's name will attract lots of people looking for a TODO list manager. "
Are you serious? There is a glut of free and .99 apps that do this. Too many IMHO.
Are you serious? There is a glut of free and .99 apps that do this. Too many IMHO.
November 6, 2009 at 15:18 |
avrum
avrum
Alex, kudos for coming up with a new pricing scheme for the app store, however add me to the "buy not rent" crowd.
Would I buy? don't know, I haven't used it yet.
Would I buy? don't know, I haven't used it yet.
November 6, 2009 at 17:27 |
Ed
Ed
"are you serious?" Sure. There is a glut because it's a big market. Let the cream rise, and if this app is well done people will try it even though they don't know AutoFocus.
I would give away 50 pages. After 50 pages, anybody still using it will be addicted and pay up. After 5, you're just getting started.
I would give away 50 pages. After 50 pages, anybody still using it will be addicted and pay up. After 5, you're just getting started.
November 6, 2009 at 17:39 |
Alan Baljeu
Alan Baljeu
Alan,
>>> "are you serious?" Sure. There is a glut because it's a big market. Let the cream rise, and if this app is well done people will try it even though they don't know AutoFocus. <<<
I think that what you are not considering is that:
1) There are not that many people looking for To Do programs of any sort,
2) Of those not all want software, some are happy with paper solutions,
3) Not all of those want software want it on a smart phone,
4) Of those not all want it for the iPhone, some have other phones,
5) Of those who meet all of those conditions, how many do you have left? How big is that market, really? And they will divide among various offerings out there that have different approaches to the problem. I, for example, want a program that will support some kind of tags or categories, import/export, and a desktop solution of some kind.
Now that you are down to that small sub set of candidates, how many do you think will subscribe to the "extortion model" of pricing? LOL ;-) I don't seriously think that this approach is a slam dunk.
>>> I would give away 50 pages. After 50 pages, anybody still using it will be addicted and pay up. After 5, you're just getting started. <<<
ROTF, spoken like a real tobacco executive.
I envision software developers hanging around near schools: "Hey kid, try this just once, its free!" LOL ;-)
I am one of those who has never underestimated the stupidity of the masses, but I think that this idea is even transparent enough for them to get.
>>> "are you serious?" Sure. There is a glut because it's a big market. Let the cream rise, and if this app is well done people will try it even though they don't know AutoFocus. <<<
I think that what you are not considering is that:
1) There are not that many people looking for To Do programs of any sort,
2) Of those not all want software, some are happy with paper solutions,
3) Not all of those want software want it on a smart phone,
4) Of those not all want it for the iPhone, some have other phones,
5) Of those who meet all of those conditions, how many do you have left? How big is that market, really? And they will divide among various offerings out there that have different approaches to the problem. I, for example, want a program that will support some kind of tags or categories, import/export, and a desktop solution of some kind.
Now that you are down to that small sub set of candidates, how many do you think will subscribe to the "extortion model" of pricing? LOL ;-) I don't seriously think that this approach is a slam dunk.
>>> I would give away 50 pages. After 50 pages, anybody still using it will be addicted and pay up. After 5, you're just getting started. <<<
ROTF, spoken like a real tobacco executive.
I envision software developers hanging around near schools: "Hey kid, try this just once, its free!" LOL ;-)
I am one of those who has never underestimated the stupidity of the masses, but I think that this idea is even transparent enough for them to get.
November 6, 2009 at 19:05 |
Mike
Mike
Mike, with respect, give it a rest.
You clearly have too much time on your hands and you're coming across as an opinionated windbag. You are singlehandedly pessimising the S/N ration of this forum and I am tired of scrolling past your lengthy, banal contributions. Stop it.
You clearly have too much time on your hands and you're coming across as an opinionated windbag. You are singlehandedly pessimising the S/N ration of this forum and I am tired of scrolling past your lengthy, banal contributions. Stop it.
November 6, 2009 at 20:37 |
Ed
Ed
I stand by what I wrote. The entire shareware industry is built on this model, and the good programs succeed if people find them and the price is right.
November 6, 2009 at 20:58 |
Alan Baljeu
Alan Baljeu
Ed,
You the new forum owner? Hmmm, I missed the announcement. LOL ;-)
You the new forum owner? Hmmm, I missed the announcement. LOL ;-)
November 6, 2009 at 21:13 |
Mike
Mike
"GED has a broader market than just current AF users. It's name will attract lots of people looking for a TODO list manager. "
Being that GED/Get Everything Done is the name of one of Mark Forster's books and of this very website, I would see AF users at least as the primary target audience.
Being that GED/Get Everything Done is the name of one of Mark Forster's books and of this very website, I would see AF users at least as the primary target audience.
November 7, 2009 at 14:27 |
Andreas
Andreas
Alex,
Sorry, haven't been tracking this, but ".. 8 tasks a page..." ???
As Mike pointed out, many people will want to see more like 20-40. (I appreciate that 40 would be a stretch on an iPhone.)
If you go through the AF4 example slides and count the number of times Mark selects a task, you will find that it is a lot more than 8 a day.
Do you have a filter for open tasks only? That would help with the number of tasks per page displayed.
I don't have an objection in principle to paying for usage rather than up front, but I think that you need to look at the pricing carefully. "standard" Autofocus uses an A4 refill with about 35 lines per page, 200 pages, 7000 tasks for around $2.
And you do need to think about the legal obligations of a service provider, which could be more stringent than those of a software provider.
Ed, Do what I do: use the <End> key, or just <Page Down>. There is no need to scroll through a reply you don't want to read.
Mike, You said nice things about Rosie: so far as I am concerned you can write what you like. Especially as it usually makes some sort of sense. I do think in this case that equating a pay per use model with extortion is taking things a little far. Even in jest.
Peace and Love.
Sorry, haven't been tracking this, but ".. 8 tasks a page..." ???
As Mike pointed out, many people will want to see more like 20-40. (I appreciate that 40 would be a stretch on an iPhone.)
If you go through the AF4 example slides and count the number of times Mark selects a task, you will find that it is a lot more than 8 a day.
Do you have a filter for open tasks only? That would help with the number of tasks per page displayed.
I don't have an objection in principle to paying for usage rather than up front, but I think that you need to look at the pricing carefully. "standard" Autofocus uses an A4 refill with about 35 lines per page, 200 pages, 7000 tasks for around $2.
And you do need to think about the legal obligations of a service provider, which could be more stringent than those of a software provider.
Ed, Do what I do: use the <End> key, or just <Page Down>. There is no need to scroll through a reply you don't want to read.
Mike, You said nice things about Rosie: so far as I am concerned you can write what you like. Especially as it usually makes some sort of sense. I do think in this case that equating a pay per use model with extortion is taking things a little far. Even in jest.
Peace and Love.
November 7, 2009 at 23:01 |
Will
Will
Hey Will,
>>> Mike, You said nice things about Rosie: so far as I am concerned you can write what you like. <<<
Damn straight ;-) ;-) In fact, I just saw a "Rosie" a moment ago. There is on my TV right now something called "Cats 101". Love it ;-)
>>> Especially as it usually makes some sort of sense. <<<
Well, that too. ;-)
>>> I do think in this case that equating a pay per use model with extortion is taking things a little far. Even in jest. <<<
Well, in case you've not noticed, political correctness is nowhere to be found in my makeup. Quite the contrary, in fact. But then again, have you noticed Rosie being politically correct? LOL ;-) We can learn a lot from our furry friends ;-)
As to taking exception to my choice of terms, I can't imagine it would raise any eyebrows. But then again ... "Psssst, hey, you wanna keep working on your tasks? Well, pay up or you're out of business!" LOL ;-)
I can sympathize with Alex's circumstance. I'm guessing he's a talented programmer and is looking to make a pile of loot ... so bought the iPhone SDK and went to work. Now that he has a product, he is confronted with some hard reality ... a really nutty customer base. I can tell you, *I* would never want to deal with iPhone users. Sheeesh. I was looking at the comments for one program (a TM program of some kind) and one comment was (I swear this is true): "This game sucks. I can't figure out how to play it." ROTFLMAO.
If I were to guess, I suspect that there is very little money to be made in writing iPhone apps. It all comes down to the expectations of the iPhone customer base. Even FREE apps are showered with criticism. I mean, talk about gift horses! Who would even want to step into that crap?
Anyway, I'm watching with interest to see how Alex fares. I wish him all the luck in the world. I think he is going to need it ;-)
P.S. As to the number of tasks per page .... some of us are getting older and do not cope well with small point size. One thing I liked about the look of Alex's app is that it is easy to read. That just shows how hard it is to please everyone. In the end, you wind up making the whole damn thing configurable. Might as well just give the SDK to the end user! LOL ;-)
Say "hey" to Rosie for me. Louise would wave at you but she is snoring right now ;-)
>>> Mike, You said nice things about Rosie: so far as I am concerned you can write what you like. <<<
Damn straight ;-) ;-) In fact, I just saw a "Rosie" a moment ago. There is on my TV right now something called "Cats 101". Love it ;-)
>>> Especially as it usually makes some sort of sense. <<<
Well, that too. ;-)
>>> I do think in this case that equating a pay per use model with extortion is taking things a little far. Even in jest. <<<
Well, in case you've not noticed, political correctness is nowhere to be found in my makeup. Quite the contrary, in fact. But then again, have you noticed Rosie being politically correct? LOL ;-) We can learn a lot from our furry friends ;-)
As to taking exception to my choice of terms, I can't imagine it would raise any eyebrows. But then again ... "Psssst, hey, you wanna keep working on your tasks? Well, pay up or you're out of business!" LOL ;-)
I can sympathize with Alex's circumstance. I'm guessing he's a talented programmer and is looking to make a pile of loot ... so bought the iPhone SDK and went to work. Now that he has a product, he is confronted with some hard reality ... a really nutty customer base. I can tell you, *I* would never want to deal with iPhone users. Sheeesh. I was looking at the comments for one program (a TM program of some kind) and one comment was (I swear this is true): "This game sucks. I can't figure out how to play it." ROTFLMAO.
If I were to guess, I suspect that there is very little money to be made in writing iPhone apps. It all comes down to the expectations of the iPhone customer base. Even FREE apps are showered with criticism. I mean, talk about gift horses! Who would even want to step into that crap?
Anyway, I'm watching with interest to see how Alex fares. I wish him all the luck in the world. I think he is going to need it ;-)
P.S. As to the number of tasks per page .... some of us are getting older and do not cope well with small point size. One thing I liked about the look of Alex's app is that it is easy to read. That just shows how hard it is to please everyone. In the end, you wind up making the whole damn thing configurable. Might as well just give the SDK to the end user! LOL ;-)
Say "hey" to Rosie for me. Louise would wave at you but she is snoring right now ;-)
November 8, 2009 at 2:08 |
Mike
Mike
There's nowt so tiresome as someone who likes the sound of his own voice.
November 8, 2009 at 2:52 |
Trevor
Trevor
Mike,
Rosie certainly sees herself as the gift that keeps on taking. I'm sure she'd be right alongside Alex.
Trevor,
This is a friendly conversation which you are very welcome to join. Don't expect any us to change, though.
You raise an interesting question, though. Being English, I have no accent (and I suspect that you are the same). Mike, who do you sound like?
Cheers.
Rosie certainly sees herself as the gift that keeps on taking. I'm sure she'd be right alongside Alex.
Trevor,
This is a friendly conversation which you are very welcome to join. Don't expect any us to change, though.
You raise an interesting question, though. Being English, I have no accent (and I suspect that you are the same). Mike, who do you sound like?
Cheers.
November 8, 2009 at 21:21 |
Will
Will
It's still in review but if you drop me email to alex@gedapp.com with your name and your device UUID, I'll send you app binaries and you will be able to install it.
Please visit our site: http://gedapp.com There are some screenshots and video tutorials.
I'll appreciate any feedback.
Thx
Alex