Discussion Forum > Projects related taks
Hi Alessandro
Having used project 2003 a little, I found it very helpful to be able to expand tasks in the way you describe above. I think that if all your work was listed on project then the closed list could become all that listed for the day. My problem was that with only limited training on the software, it took longer to set up the gant chart than it did to do the tasks, well nearly anyway. Or, if the overall project had a specific goal, and wasn't the major part of your work, then surely you could just plan to do a reasonable amount each day as an initiative ( or backlog) until it was finished.
I love 'playing' on different software and I loved project 2003 but I have to agree with Mark that I find the easiest way to manage work and tasks is on paper. I use a large A4 page to a day diary where I can put appointments on the left and tasks on the right and I am persevering with some of the techniques that Mark suggests in his books.
Having used project 2003 a little, I found it very helpful to be able to expand tasks in the way you describe above. I think that if all your work was listed on project then the closed list could become all that listed for the day. My problem was that with only limited training on the software, it took longer to set up the gant chart than it did to do the tasks, well nearly anyway. Or, if the overall project had a specific goal, and wasn't the major part of your work, then surely you could just plan to do a reasonable amount each day as an initiative ( or backlog) until it was finished.
I love 'playing' on different software and I loved project 2003 but I have to agree with Mark that I find the easiest way to manage work and tasks is on paper. I use a large A4 page to a day diary where I can put appointments on the left and tasks on the right and I am persevering with some of the techniques that Mark suggests in his books.
February 13, 2007 at 21:51 |
Debbie
Debbie
In the case of some projects, esp personal projects, I think planning them out too far in advance is overrated. GTD recommends only planning ahead enough so that you feel comfortable, not plan everything out to the last step. I think Mark would agree with that.
I think Mark recommends having a separate notebook where you store information not related to daily tasks, or store other notes or reference material in a folder as you need to refer to them. Any detailed notes or papers could be kept there.
For myself, when I mark a step in a project as done, that's the cue to schedule the next step, either the next day or later. So I have to think a little bit about the project, but not too much. [1]
I think David Allen also discounts the idea that you need to link a next action to a project. His idea is that the weekly review is the time where you check the status of your projects, assign tasks to your context lists or calendar as necessary, and then you get on with the work. The weekly review, where you refresh **in your mind** the connections between projects and NAs, is usually enough to keep you feeling on top of your projects.
If you feel you need that connection in a formal piece of software or some dedicated pages in your planner book, then you should go ahead and do them so these projects/Nas don't nag at you. But if you have faith in either DA or MF's systems, then you'll find that they'll keep you afloat without the need for many extra tools.
===
[1] My personal DIT system uses a page-per-day planner, with appointments/hrs on the left, and to-do's on the right (work stuff written in at the top, personal stuff written in at the bottom). And the lower third of the page holds notes captured throughout the day. The back of the book has lots of pages for stray to-dos (my someday/maybe tasks/projects go here) and lots of pages for stray notes (phone conversations, login ids and the like).
What this estimable book **doesn't** have is a monthly calendar, where I can see the month as a whole. So I bought a second, cheaper 12-month calendar where I can scope out vacation days, appointments, and so on. I like seeing the big picture now and then.
What I also felt I needed was a list of "active projects," those bigger outcomes that I want to be sure I am making progress on throughout the month. So I use the back page of the previous month in my monthly calendar to hold my list of active projects.
Every Sunday (well, my intentions are to do it every Sunday) I scan the Projects list and sprinkle at least one task for each project over the coming week. And that helps me feel comfortable that I've touched every project and that things are moving forward. And that's as much planning as I usually do.
Sorry for the lenthy post!
I think Mark recommends having a separate notebook where you store information not related to daily tasks, or store other notes or reference material in a folder as you need to refer to them. Any detailed notes or papers could be kept there.
For myself, when I mark a step in a project as done, that's the cue to schedule the next step, either the next day or later. So I have to think a little bit about the project, but not too much. [1]
I think David Allen also discounts the idea that you need to link a next action to a project. His idea is that the weekly review is the time where you check the status of your projects, assign tasks to your context lists or calendar as necessary, and then you get on with the work. The weekly review, where you refresh **in your mind** the connections between projects and NAs, is usually enough to keep you feeling on top of your projects.
If you feel you need that connection in a formal piece of software or some dedicated pages in your planner book, then you should go ahead and do them so these projects/Nas don't nag at you. But if you have faith in either DA or MF's systems, then you'll find that they'll keep you afloat without the need for many extra tools.
===
[1] My personal DIT system uses a page-per-day planner, with appointments/hrs on the left, and to-do's on the right (work stuff written in at the top, personal stuff written in at the bottom). And the lower third of the page holds notes captured throughout the day. The back of the book has lots of pages for stray to-dos (my someday/maybe tasks/projects go here) and lots of pages for stray notes (phone conversations, login ids and the like).
What this estimable book **doesn't** have is a monthly calendar, where I can see the month as a whole. So I bought a second, cheaper 12-month calendar where I can scope out vacation days, appointments, and so on. I like seeing the big picture now and then.
What I also felt I needed was a list of "active projects," those bigger outcomes that I want to be sure I am making progress on throughout the month. So I use the back page of the previous month in my monthly calendar to hold my list of active projects.
Every Sunday (well, my intentions are to do it every Sunday) I scan the Projects list and sprinkle at least one task for each project over the coming week. And that helps me feel comfortable that I've touched every project and that things are moving forward. And that's as much planning as I usually do.
Sorry for the lenthy post!
February 14, 2007 at 15:04 |
Mike Brown
Mike Brown
DIT isn't a book about project planning as such. But it does cover quite a lot of ways of dealing with projects, which can be used individually or together depending on the nature of the project. These include:
1) Put the next step in the Task Diary when you've completed the previous step.
2) Schedule the steps in a project forward in your Task Diary.
3) Get a project up and running by making it the Current Initiative.
4) Schedule project planning and reviews in your Task Diary.
5) Deal with the least urgent project first (i.e. get moving on a project straight away when you've taken it on - don't wait for it to become urgent).
Is that enough to be getting on with?
1) Put the next step in the Task Diary when you've completed the previous step.
2) Schedule the steps in a project forward in your Task Diary.
3) Get a project up and running by making it the Current Initiative.
4) Schedule project planning and reviews in your Task Diary.
5) Deal with the least urgent project first (i.e. get moving on a project straight away when you've taken it on - don't wait for it to become urgent).
Is that enough to be getting on with?
February 15, 2007 at 12:37 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
Dear Mark,
thanks for the reply, first of all!
I don't want to deal with project management of course...what I would like to know are the (yours) best practices to push forward project (top-down) along with their related tasks. For instance:
do you use a project master list?
is it on paper?
is it elsewhere that in the task diary?
and the project themselves:
are on a separate notebook,
a page each?
everybody I think is trying to reduce tools and apparel... therefore your opinions, your BP could be very appreciated!
thanks again
Alessandro
thanks for the reply, first of all!
I don't want to deal with project management of course...what I would like to know are the (yours) best practices to push forward project (top-down) along with their related tasks. For instance:
do you use a project master list?
is it on paper?
is it elsewhere that in the task diary?
and the project themselves:
are on a separate notebook,
a page each?
everybody I think is trying to reduce tools and apparel... therefore your opinions, your BP could be very appreciated!
thanks again
Alessandro
February 16, 2007 at 8:00 |
Alessandro Melchiorre
Alessandro Melchiorre
Hi Alessandro et al,
Don't know if you are an Outlook user but the Categories work fairly well. In the past I've created a category for a project and assigned it to each task, then used the category list view to split the tasks by project.
Matt
Don't know if you are an Outlook user but the Categories work fairly well. In the past I've created a category for a project and assigned it to each task, then used the category list view to split the tasks by project.
Matt
March 1, 2007 at 16:04 |
Matt Gregory
Matt Gregory
Thanks Matt, thanks everybody...
what I am still not able to figure out in DIT (which I like very much!) are the relationships between the big picture and the daily practices; eg.:
planning weekly or day by day?
project and tasks, day by day or forcing schedule or task diary because of the project importance?
sorry to repeat, but I think the link(s) between vision and day by day is VERY important,
TIA
Alessandro
what I am still not able to figure out in DIT (which I like very much!) are the relationships between the big picture and the daily practices; eg.:
planning weekly or day by day?
project and tasks, day by day or forcing schedule or task diary because of the project importance?
sorry to repeat, but I think the link(s) between vision and day by day is VERY important,
TIA
Alessandro
March 6, 2007 at 8:58 |
Alessandro Melchiorre
Alessandro Melchiorre
Dear Alessandro
Basically my view on projects is that, for time management purposes, there are three types:
1. Projects, such as learning a foreign language, getting fit, writing blog entries, which require a similar type of action every day (or so many times a week). Ideally these should have a scheduled time each day.
2. Projects which have a deadline attached to them, e.g writing a report, building a motorway, organising a client cocktail party. You should aim to keep on top of these, which means doing all actions relating to them at the earliest possible moment. You should use your Task Diary to plot future reviews and planning sessions as necessary. How often these will be required depends on the nature of the project.
3.Projects which have no deadline, but would be good to do. Usually these can be identified by use of a phrase like "I really must [get a new paperclip supplier/sort out the invoicing system, weed the filing cabinet] sometime". This type of project is best done one at a time as the Current Initiative. It's useful to keep a list of candidates for this slot, arranged in the order in which you are going to do them.
You will realise from the above, that I am saying that as far as possible the projects in types 1 and 2 should be actioned simultaneously. Projects in type 3 should be done one at a time. The reason for this is that to produce a high standard of work reliably the best way to deal with a project is "little and often" making use of all the time available for the project. However the possible projects in type 3 are virtually unlimited so trying to do them all at once would overwhelm you.
Basically my view on projects is that, for time management purposes, there are three types:
1. Projects, such as learning a foreign language, getting fit, writing blog entries, which require a similar type of action every day (or so many times a week). Ideally these should have a scheduled time each day.
2. Projects which have a deadline attached to them, e.g writing a report, building a motorway, organising a client cocktail party. You should aim to keep on top of these, which means doing all actions relating to them at the earliest possible moment. You should use your Task Diary to plot future reviews and planning sessions as necessary. How often these will be required depends on the nature of the project.
3.Projects which have no deadline, but would be good to do. Usually these can be identified by use of a phrase like "I really must [get a new paperclip supplier/sort out the invoicing system, weed the filing cabinet] sometime". This type of project is best done one at a time as the Current Initiative. It's useful to keep a list of candidates for this slot, arranged in the order in which you are going to do them.
You will realise from the above, that I am saying that as far as possible the projects in types 1 and 2 should be actioned simultaneously. Projects in type 3 should be done one at a time. The reason for this is that to produce a high standard of work reliably the best way to deal with a project is "little and often" making use of all the time available for the project. However the possible projects in type 3 are virtually unlimited so trying to do them all at once would overwhelm you.
March 6, 2007 at 16:34 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
"sorry to repeat, but I think the link(s) between vision and day by day is VERY important, "
Alessandro -- sorry if we're totally missing the point of your question, but I think I should point out something that Mark has I believe pointed out in one of his writings ("The Book of Mark"?)
Namely, there's a difference between thinking and doing. The vision you mention is thinking, envisioning, seeing the cathedral in your mind that you want to build. But the "doing" part of your mind isn't interested in the vision, it wants to get practical and get something done.
That's why the GTD weekly review (or something like it) is valuable. It gives your thinking/visioning brain an image to organize around so that it can figure out what the next tasks are. Then, during the week, as you do your work, your "doing" brain executes the tasks that get the cathedral built. No daily reminder of the vision is needed, unless you want to take a moment at the start of the day to fix on the image of the finished project to inspire yourself.
I think a solution to your problem is one you're going to have to figure out on your own, which is what DIT is, essentially, one person's way of solving a problem unique to himself.
Alessandro -- sorry if we're totally missing the point of your question, but I think I should point out something that Mark has I believe pointed out in one of his writings ("The Book of Mark"?)
Namely, there's a difference between thinking and doing. The vision you mention is thinking, envisioning, seeing the cathedral in your mind that you want to build. But the "doing" part of your mind isn't interested in the vision, it wants to get practical and get something done.
That's why the GTD weekly review (or something like it) is valuable. It gives your thinking/visioning brain an image to organize around so that it can figure out what the next tasks are. Then, during the week, as you do your work, your "doing" brain executes the tasks that get the cathedral built. No daily reminder of the vision is needed, unless you want to take a moment at the start of the day to fix on the image of the finished project to inspire yourself.
I think a solution to your problem is one you're going to have to figure out on your own, which is what DIT is, essentially, one person's way of solving a problem unique to himself.
March 7, 2007 at 14:48 |
Mike Brown
Mike Brown
For me the direct link between vision and action is only then possible if I am really inspired by the work I'm doing, e.g. gardening, painting, or journaling.
But for my office job I have to break down a vision into goals, goals into milestones, milestones into work packages, and work packages into actions.
This "breaking-down-work" I do during my planning sessions. During my daily and weekly reviews I look at my list of work packages and decide about the next actions.
Rainer
But for my office job I have to break down a vision into goals, goals into milestones, milestones into work packages, and work packages into actions.
This "breaking-down-work" I do during my planning sessions. During my daily and weekly reviews I look at my list of work packages and decide about the next actions.
Rainer
March 7, 2007 at 17:12 |
Rainer
Rainer
Alessandro,
Just a very basic point: I believe that you do need a project file/ document of some sort that holds:
. the aim of the project
. how you'll decide it's complete
. the schedule of tasks to be completed (as well as scheduling these tasks in your task diary)
and any other information you need such as:
. contacts
. team roles
. risks and assumptions
. specifications
. contracts
. quotes
. correspondence
. notes of meetings
. signoffs
etc etc
I tend to use Microsoft OneNote, with links to any key documents. But you might prefer a Word document or a paper file or notebook.
It depends on the scale of the project, the type of documentation andwhat you are comfortable with.
But I wouldn't use my task diary to track status of project tasks.
Sorry if this is stating the obvious.
Regards,
Will
Just a very basic point: I believe that you do need a project file/ document of some sort that holds:
. the aim of the project
. how you'll decide it's complete
. the schedule of tasks to be completed (as well as scheduling these tasks in your task diary)
and any other information you need such as:
. contacts
. team roles
. risks and assumptions
. specifications
. contracts
. quotes
. correspondence
. notes of meetings
. signoffs
etc etc
I tend to use Microsoft OneNote, with links to any key documents. But you might prefer a Word document or a paper file or notebook.
It depends on the scale of the project, the type of documentation andwhat you are comfortable with.
But I wouldn't use my task diary to track status of project tasks.
Sorry if this is stating the obvious.
Regards,
Will
March 8, 2007 at 8:49 |
Will Ross
Will Ross
one of the main trouble in GTD was the lack of connection between projects and tasks, btw vertical planning and horizontal actions... I do like very much the closed list technique BUT
how do you relate tasks to project?
how do you push forward a project choosing and keeping tracks of the related tasks?
in a way do you outline tasks? (paper or digital seems to be irrelevant at the moment...)
thanks
Alessandro