Discussion Forum > DWM - mix 7/30 day items with date-specific items?
I am inclined to just leave the items on the date when entered, and either 1. after 7 days and 30 days critically examine the open items to determine what to do with them.
or 2. what I am doing now at the end of month, going over any open items - it usually takes a few days.
Related to this matter is: if the long list begins as a catch-all list, how does one prune it, if one is using Simple Scanning without dismissal? It seems some weeding and discipline is needed.
or 2. what I am doing now at the end of month, going over any open items - it usually takes a few days.
Related to this matter is: if the long list begins as a catch-all list, how does one prune it, if one is using Simple Scanning without dismissal? It seems some weeding and discipline is needed.
August 26, 2023 at 23:50 |
Mark H.
Mark H.
DWM - my favourite of Forster's systems. And it works amazing with Omnifocus and other digital task managers with robust due date functions.
August 27, 2023 at 16:00 |
avrum
avrum
I am inclined now instead of changing my whole system, to experiment with DWM with a small area of my life, maybe without any date deadlines. Perhaps something like my personal reading.
That way I could use one of those small pocket planners that only have a few lines per date for writing.
Or there might be value in using the method of deferring tasks to a week or a month in advance more often. I think I am trying to solve the problem of having too many unprocessed or open items, and although some I can cross off, many of them are good ideas, tasks I will want to, but perhaps in the future, I will do them. I review from time to time my old notebooks from past months, and I find sometimes there is an activity that I lost interest in that I am motivated to pick up again.
That way I could use one of those small pocket planners that only have a few lines per date for writing.
Or there might be value in using the method of deferring tasks to a week or a month in advance more often. I think I am trying to solve the problem of having too many unprocessed or open items, and although some I can cross off, many of them are good ideas, tasks I will want to, but perhaps in the future, I will do them. I review from time to time my old notebooks from past months, and I find sometimes there is an activity that I lost interest in that I am motivated to pick up again.
August 27, 2023 at 17:31 |
Mark H.
Mark H.
DWM also works great in a spreadsheet. You have a column for date entered, a column for in progress (Yes or leave blank) and a column (I call DWM date) with a formula that says if in progress is "yes" then date entered +7, otherwise date entered +30. Then one more column with the formula of =DWM date-today() and you have the number of days an item is due, suitable for sorting or filtering.
August 27, 2023 at 19:26 |
vegheadjones
vegheadjones
Some time ago I made the following suggestion for DWM;
"On the subject of dating the days, all that is necessary is to number each day with the recurring series A-G (easy to remember because it's the nomenclature for musical notes) and 1-30, e.g. B23. At the beginning of each day you take dismissal action on the previous day which has the same letter and the previous day which has the same number. Since you will only number days when you are actually working on the list, this automatically allows for days when you are not working without needing any complicated adjustments."
"On the subject of dating the days, all that is necessary is to number each day with the recurring series A-G (easy to remember because it's the nomenclature for musical notes) and 1-30, e.g. B23. At the beginning of each day you take dismissal action on the previous day which has the same letter and the previous day which has the same number. Since you will only number days when you are actually working on the list, this automatically allows for days when you are not working without needing any complicated adjustments."
August 28, 2023 at 12:45 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
Mark - I fully admit that I'm a bit thick... so I'm having a lot of trouble understanding your A-G, 1-30 note above. Example.
Today is: Mon. Aug 28
7 days from now: Sep 4
30 days: Sep 27
According to DWM rules... if I start DWM today, all of my new tasks would be given the Sep 27 date (30 day). Any actioned but unfinished tasks would be given the Sep 4 date (7 day). Etc. Etc.
How does it work with your system?
Today is: Mon. Aug 28
7 days from now: Sep 4
30 days: Sep 27
According to DWM rules... if I start DWM today, all of my new tasks would be given the Sep 27 date (30 day). Any actioned but unfinished tasks would be given the Sep 4 date (7 day). Etc. Etc.
How does it work with your system?
August 28, 2023 at 23:59 |
avrum
avrum
And I thought 30 days from now would be:
September 28.
You keep the same date whether there are 28, 30, 31 days to the month.
(?)
September 28.
You keep the same date whether there are 28, 30, 31 days to the month.
(?)
August 29, 2023 at 0:15 |
Mark H.
Mark H.
avrum:
I'll have to try it out and let you know. I merely copied the text from an old post of mine. All I know is it worked then!
I'm working on something else at the moment so it may be a while.
I'll have to try it out and let you know. I merely copied the text from an old post of mine. All I know is it worked then!
I'm working on something else at the moment so it may be a while.
August 29, 2023 at 11:32 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
avrum:
I'll have to try it out and let you know. I merely copied the text from an old post of mine. All I know is it worked then!
I'm working on something else at the moment so it may be a while.
I'll have to try it out and let you know. I merely copied the text from an old post of mine. All I know is it worked then!
I'm working on something else at the moment so it may be a while.
August 29, 2023 at 12:16 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
Late replying to the original post.
I love DWM. It is one of my absolute favorite of Mark's systems. I used it extensively and probably stopped just because I fell off the proverbial wagon as I have tended to do and then got distracted by another shiny bauble.
I used it in a daytimer / Filofax type of planner. I made a distinction between DWM, which I used for undated material a la GTD next actions, and deadlines, which I treated like GTD calendar events. This had a couple of implications. I would put deadlines on the left (appointment) page and DWM tasks on the right (note) page. Also, anything with a deadline I would enter both as the deadline (event) and also as the tasks (DWM list) that needed to be done to fulfill the deadline.
I loved DWM because of its automatic dismissal and of the sense that when I scanned for things to do I was always working ahead. Because of that, I found the subsequent modifications of DWM that did away with dates and journal pages uncompelling.
I've oscillated between paper and electronic task management for*ever*. I am working in OmniFocus now. I know I could find ways to do DWM in OmniFocus and have done so in the past, but the main draws for me (working ahead, automatic dismissal) don't work so well there. But I like to think that my way of working now incorporates everything I've learned from Mark and his excellent followers and posters on this forum.
I love DWM. It is one of my absolute favorite of Mark's systems. I used it extensively and probably stopped just because I fell off the proverbial wagon as I have tended to do and then got distracted by another shiny bauble.
I used it in a daytimer / Filofax type of planner. I made a distinction between DWM, which I used for undated material a la GTD next actions, and deadlines, which I treated like GTD calendar events. This had a couple of implications. I would put deadlines on the left (appointment) page and DWM tasks on the right (note) page. Also, anything with a deadline I would enter both as the deadline (event) and also as the tasks (DWM list) that needed to be done to fulfill the deadline.
I loved DWM because of its automatic dismissal and of the sense that when I scanned for things to do I was always working ahead. Because of that, I found the subsequent modifications of DWM that did away with dates and journal pages uncompelling.
I've oscillated between paper and electronic task management for*ever*. I am working in OmniFocus now. I know I could find ways to do DWM in OmniFocus and have done so in the past, but the main draws for me (working ahead, automatic dismissal) don't work so well there. But I like to think that my way of working now incorporates everything I've learned from Mark and his excellent followers and posters on this forum.
August 29, 2023 at 13:55 |
Lenore
Lenore
Lenore:
<<I found the subsequent modifications of DWM that did away with dates and journal pages uncompelling.>>
Even though I made it work in Omnifocus, there was something missing. When I did DWM via original rules, the dismissal feature was much more powerful.
<<But I like to think that my way of working now incorporates everything I've learned from Mark and his excellent followers and posters on this forum.>>
From one former DWM fan to another… I’m curious to what you do now that captures the spirit and/or features of DWM?
<<I found the subsequent modifications of DWM that did away with dates and journal pages uncompelling.>>
Even though I made it work in Omnifocus, there was something missing. When I did DWM via original rules, the dismissal feature was much more powerful.
<<But I like to think that my way of working now incorporates everything I've learned from Mark and his excellent followers and posters on this forum.>>
From one former DWM fan to another… I’m curious to what you do now that captures the spirit and/or features of DWM?
August 29, 2023 at 16:57 |
avrum
avrum
I'll see if I can remember how to do by page numbers rather than dates. There are two advantages of doing it that way:
1) if you are away for a period (or even a single day) and unable to work the list, you can just take up the numbering again when you get back.
2) it solves the problem of what to do with the different lengths of months, 28, 29, 30 or 31 days.
Remember that you scan ALL active pages every day .
You start by numbering the first page A1. Enter your initial task list, plus any further tasks you want to add durig the day.
Now number further pages , B2, C3, D4, E5, F6, G7 and A8
Work the list. Any tasks which are re-entered go on page A8 (note that it has the same letter prefix as your current page A1).
So you have new tasks going on A1 and re-entered tasks on A8.
That's Day 1.
On Day 2, You enter new tasks on page B2 and re-entered tasks on B9. Note again that the re-entry page has the same letter prefix.
Contine to scan ALL active pages in turn, which will now be A1, B2, A8 and B9.
Continue like this until you reach page A8. This will be after one week. The rule that you dismiss the previous page with the same letter comes into effect. So you dismiss all tasks which are still on page A1. From now on you put this rule into effect every day. For example the following day you will be entering new tasks on B9, re-entering tasks on B16 and dismissing all tasks remaining on B2.
This fulfills the rule that re-entered tasks are dismissed after 7 days.
After 30 days have passed you will run out of numbers and have to start again with 1. You will in fact be on page C1. The rule that you dismiss the previous page which has the same number comes into effect for the first time. So you dismiss all tasks left on page A! - the first page on the list. But don't forget that you also have to dismiss the previous page with the same letter, so that means you dismiss page C24. From now on you will be dismissing two pages a day.
This is exactly the same process as using dated pages, but allows you to take breaks without upsetting the sequence..
1) if you are away for a period (or even a single day) and unable to work the list, you can just take up the numbering again when you get back.
2) it solves the problem of what to do with the different lengths of months, 28, 29, 30 or 31 days.
Remember that you scan ALL active pages every day .
You start by numbering the first page A1. Enter your initial task list, plus any further tasks you want to add durig the day.
Now number further pages , B2, C3, D4, E5, F6, G7 and A8
Work the list. Any tasks which are re-entered go on page A8 (note that it has the same letter prefix as your current page A1).
So you have new tasks going on A1 and re-entered tasks on A8.
That's Day 1.
On Day 2, You enter new tasks on page B2 and re-entered tasks on B9. Note again that the re-entry page has the same letter prefix.
Contine to scan ALL active pages in turn, which will now be A1, B2, A8 and B9.
Continue like this until you reach page A8. This will be after one week. The rule that you dismiss the previous page with the same letter comes into effect. So you dismiss all tasks which are still on page A1. From now on you put this rule into effect every day. For example the following day you will be entering new tasks on B9, re-entering tasks on B16 and dismissing all tasks remaining on B2.
This fulfills the rule that re-entered tasks are dismissed after 7 days.
After 30 days have passed you will run out of numbers and have to start again with 1. You will in fact be on page C1. The rule that you dismiss the previous page which has the same number comes into effect for the first time. So you dismiss all tasks left on page A! - the first page on the list. But don't forget that you also have to dismiss the previous page with the same letter, so that means you dismiss page C24. From now on you will be dismissing two pages a day.
This is exactly the same process as using dated pages, but allows you to take breaks without upsetting the sequence..
August 29, 2023 at 18:31 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
That B22 notation idea evokes a different variant: Write your tasks sequentially without gaps or pages, but label them A-H or 1-31. On day C22 you will enter new tasks as 21 and reenter tasks as B. At the end of the day, all C's and 22s get dismissed. The next day is D23. (The reason for 8 letters is otherwise you would be rewriting C as C and dismissing C. It works out to 7 days and/or 30 days elapsed to the next time it comes due.)
August 29, 2023 at 19:17 |
Alan Baljeu
Alan Baljeu
Very interesting Mark - thanks for sharing.
If memory serves, there was some sort of mental trickery (in a good way) about putting things into a daily calendar, and removing pages as I go because the ACTUAL day was done. For example: If I placed "Register for Paint Course" as a new task 30 days ago, and it is Tuesday. August 29, and "Register for Paint Course" is still hanging around, the DWM rules in addition to the August 29th ending at 12am, reinforce dismissal and get any of my justifications, rationalization and/or rule modifications out of it.
The original rules are elegant. And damn if I'm not tempted to give it another shot.
If memory serves, there was some sort of mental trickery (in a good way) about putting things into a daily calendar, and removing pages as I go because the ACTUAL day was done. For example: If I placed "Register for Paint Course" as a new task 30 days ago, and it is Tuesday. August 29, and "Register for Paint Course" is still hanging around, the DWM rules in addition to the August 29th ending at 12am, reinforce dismissal and get any of my justifications, rationalization and/or rule modifications out of it.
The original rules are elegant. And damn if I'm not tempted to give it another shot.
August 29, 2023 at 22:45 |
avrum
avrum
Alan Baljeu:
<< (The reason for 8 letters is otherwise you would be rewriting C as C and dismissing C. It works out to 7 days and/or 30 days elapsed to the next time it comes due.) >>
I'm trying to understand what you mean here.
If I said that you write new tasks on Tuesday and the following Tuesday you dismiss the ones that haven't been done, what would be the problem with that? The tasks would have been on the list for seven days. I can't see any reason for adding another day.
<< (The reason for 8 letters is otherwise you would be rewriting C as C and dismissing C. It works out to 7 days and/or 30 days elapsed to the next time it comes due.) >>
I'm trying to understand what you mean here.
If I said that you write new tasks on Tuesday and the following Tuesday you dismiss the ones that haven't been done, what would be the problem with that? The tasks would have been on the list for seven days. I can't see any reason for adding another day.
August 30, 2023 at 15:07 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
You are right. So A-G 1-30.
I added the day because I was struggling with how to distinguish Today from 7 days ago if they are both labeled C. I only want to dismiss the 7 days ago. But I guess that's actually not a problem because those tasks are 7 days back in the list. I don't know why I didn't realize this at the time.
I added the day because I was struggling with how to distinguish Today from 7 days ago if they are both labeled C. I only want to dismiss the 7 days ago. But I guess that's actually not a problem because those tasks are 7 days back in the list. I don't know why I didn't realize this at the time.
August 31, 2023 at 21:53 |
Alan Baljeu
Alan Baljeu
I have read the past posts about it.
Should all of these items go on one list for the date Sept. 1?
1. reminders of a monthly repeating task on the 1st of the month, such as pay rent on Sept. 1.
2. reminder of a weekly repeated task on Friday, such as put gasoline in the car on Sept.1.
3. due date reminders for projects, such as finish reading the library book due on Sept. 1.
4. Appointments - go to the dentist at 1 pm on Sept. 1. (I would put this on my appointment calendar).
5. reminder of daily repeated task, such as brush teeth, done on August 31, and to be repeated on Sept. 1.
6. then the 30 day new items expiring Sept. 1, entered on August 1.
7. and the 7 day items expiring Sept. 1, entered on August 25.
Questions - would it be best to put all of these on the same page on one list with the date Sept. 1, or separated on different lists?
So that 1, 2, 3 4, are perhaps put on a dated planner, and perhaps 5,6, 7 together? or the daily repeated tasks on its own checklist? And the 7/30 days items together on its list?
Right now, I am entering notes, new tasks, repeating tasks and dating it on the date I enter it. However, I am using a notebook as a catch-all list, and so I have a lot of items that linger.
I am not sure that DWM has enough advantage over just keeping the item where it is:
So that new items entered on Aug. 1 that has not been actioned by 30 days later on Sept. 1 would get dismissed, and any 7-day items entered on August 25 that has not actioned 7 days later by Sept. 1. would get dismissed. Perhaps the 7-day item could be marked.
It has been a while since DWM, so I am also wondering if anything needs to be dismissed at all. Can the open items just linger indefinitely, and eventually be forgotten, or reviewed occasionally?