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Discussion Forum > Hyper-scheduling vs Intuition

Happy and healthy 2024 to y'all.

I'm crossposting a thread I started on David Sparks' forum. I registered for his new productivity seminar, which provides access to this forum. I don't find the material that compelling - to me, it seems pillaged from Covey's 7 Habits book. And no credit is due - which always irks me. Anyway, here's the post I created... curious to hear from others on this forum how you understand the split between these two ideas:

****

I think there are two philosophies in the productivity universe regarding the management of discretionary time:

Hyper-Scheduling: David Sparks, Stephen Covey, Cal Newport
Intuition: David Allen, Paul Loomans (Time Surfing), Mark Forster (Autofocus, etc)

As a therapist (with young kids), a good portion of my day is scheduled. I abhor plugging in the remaining free time with activity - I much prefer to rely on moment-to-moment intuition and decide what’s the best use of my time right now. This is something David Allen teaches - and I think he’s onto something when he recommends not confusing hard landscape appointments with things you want/ought/wish to do.

On the other hand, the amount of stuff David Sparks (and Covey, Newport) produces - along with the quality - suggests that hyper-scheduling works very well for some people.

Perhaps this all boils down to personality type along with ages/stages of one’s life. For example: Mark Forster spent many years in the military. Could that experience partially explain why he's adept at creating/scanning long lists of items?

The maxim “Know Thyself” is crucial here. I’m weary of coaches, therapists and productivity authors who strongly encourage their way of doing things - without taking into consideration that their upbringing, cognitive style and lifestyle lends itself to this or that methodology.
January 14, 2024 at 16:19 | Registered Commenteravrum
I've had a similar concept in my mind for a while. But instead of having a division into two pools (hyper-scheduling and intuition) I see a spectrum of four;

• hyper-scheduling (e.g. Cal Newport or Tony Robbin's RPM)
• time-fixed lists (DIT, DWM, some No List systems, Ivy Lee Method)
• intuition-based lists (Autofocus, GTD contexts)
• no list at all (Dreams, time surfing I guess, black cloud hunting, etc)
January 15, 2024 at 15:18 | Unregistered CommenterChristopher
Time-blocking (and most other types of planning, TBH) bring approximately 0 value for somebody like me with a complex around being told what to do and ADHD-like symptoms.

I, too, find it exhausting that the self-help sphere, the fitness sphere, the spirituality sphere, etc, have almost entirely shifted to "Prescribe first, diagnose later."
January 15, 2024 at 20:20 | Unregistered CommenterVoluntas
Prescribe first, diagnose later? I suppose because it’s vastly easier to communicate “try this” rather than in a 1-way conversation learn what the audience’s problems are to diagnose them.
January 16, 2024 at 0:11 | Registered CommenterAlan Baljeu
As someone else pointed out once, a lot of it probably comes down to emotions. At some point, all of the stuff that works is the stuff that somehow manages to address the emotional state of your mind, or possibly the psychological states of your mind. Whether it is the mental and emotional work that Paul Looman's Time Surfing teaches, or the deliberate carving out of time for deep work a la Cal Newport (who, for a time blocker, is an awfully flexible one compared to the rest of the time blocking ilk), it's always described by these people in terms of the impact on one's overall mental space.

I really like Oliver Burkeman's article here:

https://www.oliverburkeman.com/fourhours

I think this is something of a nucleus as Burkeman points out, and it's an star around which almost all of the methods orbit. In short, if you can manage to carve out something close to 3 or 4 hours of dedicated time for something of high impact/value to your life, you'll probably do just fine, and probably well above typical.

If you look at Cal Newport, all his time blocking is about carving out that time. Everything else is just a way to manage everything else to get that space that he wants. He even says not to time block every hour of your non working day.

If you pay close attention to David Allen, you'll notice that the whole system is meant to create sufficient mental clarity and space to allow you to safely spend time doing what you really need/want to do, without worrying about everything else. And he even advocates a form of time blocking when you have deep work to do, specifically in the form of scheduling out as a hard appointment some time for yourself to let yourself do that "big ticket item."

If you ever follow Brendan Burchard, he's a huge time blocker, but his core principle of productivity from his HP6 is the idea of carving out sufficient time (4 - 6 hours, or more precisely, about 60% of your time) to work on PQO (prolific quality output). He doesn't really care about the rest of the time in terms of productivity. He notes that most high performers manage to have this focus, no matter how they achieve it.

If you look at Time Surfing, similar to David Allen, it's about creating that mental space and clarity that you need to be in the moment with whatever you're working on. It's a way of encouraging and helping you to create the best focus on you can on a single thing at a time and respond accordingly, which includes crafting your environment to avoid interruptions when you need to have maximum focus.

All of these models, and I would include Mark Forster's in those, tend to anchor around this concept of how you create space for high value/high impact activity, and then actually *do* that activity in the space you have made. Getting there can be a challenge, and some people aren't able to intuit the application of one technique or another, and sometimes they just aren't appealing to one personality or another, but I think they're all after much the same thing.

I feel like now, I could effectively use many of the methods mentioned above. However, some of them I enjoy more than others, and they represent more engagement from me on a purely personal level, regardless of effectiveness, which is a point that Mark has made in the past. So, for me, since I now feel like I've "got it" in some sense, I can switch from making a choice based on trying to find the "best" system, to trying to find a system that I simply like using the most.
January 16, 2024 at 12:31 | Registered CommenterAaron Hsu
Aaron:

<<Cal Newport (who, for a time blocker, is an awfully flexible one compared to the rest of the time blocking ilk) >>

I don’t know… this morning, I was listening to his most recent podcast episode where he suggests - erroneously in my opinion - that to lower the stress in your life throw everything on your calendar. I’m paraphrasing, but it’s the gist of his personal life system.

A problem with all professionals (therapists included) is the intellectual myopia they bring to the prescriptions they offer. The ol’ Maslow quote:

“If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.”

<<carve out something close to 3 or 4 hours of dedicated time for something of high impact >>

If you have children - in particular children younger than 12 - and work, this is an ideal that very few can reach. Throw in self-care - exercise, proper diet (which involves cooking hearty meals), children’s homework, afterschool programs, etc etc… it’s not an achievable goal for most dual income famlies.

However the spirit of Burkeman’s post is very important. Though I’d add Mark’s “little and often” to the mix. Can you find moments in your day to chip away at an important (however you define that) project.

<<David Allen - And he even advocates a form of time blocking>>

I’ve been listening to a lot of Allen over the holiday and I don’t hear that in his message. There are times where it seems he reluctantly supports putting non-hard landscape items on a calendar. But generally, he’s an old hippy with respect to discretionary time. Personally, that’s the part of his shtick that I enjoy the most. Same with Mark’s Dreams and intuition ideas.
January 16, 2024 at 15:00 | Registered Commenteravrum
@Alan:

TL;DR: Being an "expert" is easy when you ignore the cases where your advice doesn't work.

Sure, one-way "conversations" are more challenging. (They are really just "versations" because the "con" element is missing.) However, a practitioner ("Todd") whose business is to *actually* help people quickly runs into cases where his favorite technique doesn't work. After a few years, Todd can start saying things like "If you have problem A, try technique X. However, if you have problem B, don't bother with technique X, it will be counterproductive." He might even have developed a series of tests that helps him understand which category a client falls into, and therefore which interventions are appropriate.

So then, why don't I see very many self-help books that have different chapters that are geared toward helping different kinds of people? I've never even seen one that suggests "Take this test so that we can identify the main issue we need to resolve."

My contention is that there is some survivorship bias at work. If somebody develops a technique and publishes it in a book, I think that they tend to focus mainly on the readers who successfully implemented the technique, without giving much attention to those who struggled. Anecdotally, I've had more than a few experiences talking to "spiritual" people. They start the conversation saying "Meditation is THE direct path to peace and happiness, everybody should do it." And then when I explain to them that meditation has the opposite effect for me, they immediately cop out and say "Well, maybe this just isn't for you, then." As though they already forgot about the first thing they said. Well, no wonder it "works for everybody!"

--V
January 16, 2024 at 16:47 | Unregistered CommenterVoluntas
Alan:

<<it’s vastly easier to communicate “try this” rather than [...] learn what the audience’s problems are to diagnose them.>>

Which is why I prefer books that focus on principles over techniques.
January 16, 2024 at 18:31 | Registered Commenteravrum
Voluntas:


Everything about your post above is rings true for me.

<<"Meditation is THE direct path to peace and happiness, everybody should do it." And then when I explain to them that meditation has the opposite effect for me, they immediately cop out and say >>

A great example. I have professional training in meditation, and personal experience with the practice. I don't find it does very much for me - at least compared to strength training and its impact on my stress and sleep.

I humbly submit a few reasons why self-help authors and therapists LOVE recommending meditation:

1. The barrier to entry re: training is very low
2. You can charge money to run courses/classes
3. There is little physical requirements to partake in the practice
4. The spiritual du jour is Eastern philosophy i.e. Mind Like Water, which plays very nicely with mediation practice.
5. Results are often quite positive in the short-run (In our MBSR course, we filled out a survey at the beginning, and right at the end of our course). In the long term, few people stick with the practice. Which is why every year a new mindfulness book hits the market with an even shorter form of meditation "5 Minute Mindfulness To Reduce Back Pain (Depression, Frustration with in-laws...).
January 16, 2024 at 18:41 | Registered Commenteravrum
About halfway through *Dreams*, Mark writes:

> If you still have difficulty identifying what you really want then try this exercise. [...]

Now we're talkin'!

--V
January 17, 2024 at 1:21 | Unregistered CommenterVoluntas
avrum:

<<I’m paraphrasing, but it’s the gist of his personal life system.>>

https://youtu.be/QvqwnltVG9o?si=Ma4Pl8fh22e8QW5Z&t=2060
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0sNSZDNMCk

I think one of the biggest issues for Newport is that sometimes he doesn't do a good job of establishing context of much of what he says. When he says, "Time Block relaxation," for instance, he doesn't mean time blocking recreational time outside of work per se (though I don't think he would object to it).

It is true in a sense that he advocates for "time blocking non-time blocking time," but that's really just saying to have a defined contour and schedule of your work in which you turn off at the end of it so that the rest of your life can be lived without the work coming into it.

He's very much about controlling your time, it's true. But I don't think it's really fair to suggest that he's all about hyper scheduling. I find the approach of control to be less desirable after having internalized a lot of Time Surfing, but in the end they both share the common thread of trying to find intention in what you are doing.

<<If you have children - in particular children younger than 12 - and work, this is an ideal that very few can reach. Throw in self-care - exercise, proper diet (which involves cooking hearty meals), children’s homework, afterschool programs, etc etc… it’s not an achievable goal for most dual income famlies.>>

I don't think Burkeman's point was to say that you must schedule 3 hours a day for deep work or your life is over! Instead, to someone like Burkeman, the idea that you really only have 3 hours or so (maybe up to 6 for some people) of truly intense intellectual capacity per day is freeing because it means that you *don't* have to try to control your whole day, and life isn't all about hyper focus all day long. So, the number is more about something relatively low by productivity geek standards, rather than high. It's a much more attainable and sane number.

Now, I think it's also true that for many people, it might be hard to find 3 hours at a stretch for anything. But I do think that many people are much more capable than they think of finding the equivalent of 3 to 4 hours in aggregate over a whole day of time to work. I also think it's absolutely true that it would be better if those were at longer stretches than shorter stretches.

This is something that the Effective Executive spoke about years before any of the rest of this stuff showed up. The idea of trying to manage your time at that point was simply about trying to shepherd your work life in some way that would permit you the time to actually think on the things that would produce real value in your career and workplace as a knowledge worker. And even then it acknowledged the difficulty in finding long stretches of time in which to do that sort of thinking. On the other hand, it also acknowledged how we should still try to make that time as long as possible, because there are real benefits to doing so. Maybe that means you can only stretch it to 30 minutes at a time, but even then, that's much better than 5 minutes at a time.

Now, I'll also admit that I happen to think that the dual income family is a fundamentally broken model, however necessary it might be for many people. It's absolutely true that it's hard to both work a "full time" job (whatever that may entail for the family in particular) and also manage and work with young children. It's not ideal by any stretch of the imagination, and it puts an insane stress on many families in my observation. A part of me strongly believes that the answer to such things is maybe letting go of the idea of the need for such intense work productivity at all. In some sense, maybe it's just not that important when you have young children at home that need you. Maybe you can't do that, but a lot of people I know could do well to stop trying to hold themselves to some sort of standard of life that expects them to be both homemakers and career professionals at equal levels. I think some people almost have to forgive themselves for not being productive under those conditions, even though there isn't anything to forgive.

I actually think a lot of the positive influence of the best productivity systems is in the ability to feel okay with yourself when you say no to things. Whether it's the very intuitive systems or the very control oriented systems, when they are working well, they give the user the ability to freely and contentedly say no to things that really aren't going to matter in the long run.

<<I’ve been listening to a lot of Allen over the holiday and I don’t hear that in his message. There are times where it seems he reluctantly supports putting non-hard landscape items on a calendar. But generally, he’s an old hippy with respect to discretionary time. Personally, that’s the part of his shtick that I enjoy the most. Same with Mark’s Dreams and intuition ideas.>>

I think you're mostly right. But...he's also acknowledged that he takes forever to produce things, like books. Here's a good article that tries to connect the dots:

https://scheduleu.org/why-david-allen-seems-to-be-changing-his-mind-about-scheduling/

The only thing I would say is that I don't think David Allen actually has changed his mind *that* much in this regard. He rightly points out the expense of working with time blocks, and so he emphasizes, just as Cal Newport does, the importance of being ready to tear up and toss your original time block plan if necessary. And he also emphasizes just time blocking when you need to do so, to create sacred time, which is, IMO, consistent with the "sacred time" concept in his GTD book.

I do think that one of the things that makes David Allen one of the OGs of the "Agile" methods of productivity (in that they embrace change) is his early emphasis on not trying to schedule tasks and objectives. Newport is most certainly someone who advocates for the scheduling out of ideas, including weekly and monthly schedules. David Allen definitely is in the other camp.

But I just don't think that many of these people are as far apart as some people would like to put them. Cal Newport was been explicitly, with credit, influenced by David Allen in no small degree. Much of his system is essentially GTD. I'd even go so far as to say that under David Allen's "canonical GTD" comments, you could almost call what Newport does GTD.

And there's an interesting distinction here that can be drawn up between the Intuitive folks. Mark Forster's long lists and David Allen's GTD both take advantage of the freeing effect on the mind of externalizing commitments down to the "actionable" level (though that definition is more broad for Mark). On the other hand, Time Surfing is somewhat anti-intuitive in that it *doesn't* try to "get things out of your head" by writing things down. It's taking advantage of the same Zeigarnik effect as the others, but doing so by actually encouraging you to do more initial mental processing, and even encouraging multiple repeated engagements at the mental level with tasks. Mark's scanning methods will do some of this stuff, but not in the same explicit way, and GTD very much encourages you to *not* do that kind of work if you don't have to with any given task.
January 17, 2024 at 11:46 | Registered CommenterAaron Hsu
Aaron:

Great post/comment.

<<Now, I'll also admit that I happen to think that the dual income family is a fundamentally broken model,>>

I don't have the energy or time to get into this right now, but this is something that I've been thinking about for years. I don't think it's a sustainable model.
January 17, 2024 at 15:46 | Registered Commenteravrum