Discussion Forum > Write everything and eventually overwhelm, or trust intuition and eventually overlook?
I've found that it helps me to have some backburner storage for low-priority ideas and things I want to retire. I can put things there without fear of losing them. Sometimes I have a definitive date that I want to revisit something, other times I just leave it there for the future.
Then, I can have whatever system I am using be more focused on what I am actively working on at the moment. When I feel overwhelm, I just go through my list and put whatever I feel like I can't manage onto the backburner and I don't feel any fear of overlooking anything moving forward.
Then, I can have whatever system I am using be more focused on what I am actively working on at the moment. When I feel overwhelm, I just go through my list and put whatever I feel like I can't manage onto the backburner and I don't feel any fear of overlooking anything moving forward.
March 17, 2024 at 4:42 |
jeemo
jeemo
Scott:
<<It's forcing me to be honest about what I can actually get done. It's been a little depressing because I have all these wonderful things I want to do that never seem to move closer to [Doing]>>
A few years ago, I was asking my clinical supervisor why productivity is rarely discussed in (Family Systems) literature. In particular, because this theory started with Schizophrenia but branched out to leadership in general. She replied:
"Because most problems that most people struggle with are not related to productivity, but chronic or acute anxiety.".
Whenever I start getting itchy about my system, tools or reading too many productivity books/blogs, something else is going on. The irony is that my attempts to become more productive are a tell that I'm ignoring something more meaningful or important.
<<It's forcing me to be honest about what I can actually get done. It's been a little depressing because I have all these wonderful things I want to do that never seem to move closer to [Doing]>>
A few years ago, I was asking my clinical supervisor why productivity is rarely discussed in (Family Systems) literature. In particular, because this theory started with Schizophrenia but branched out to leadership in general. She replied:
"Because most problems that most people struggle with are not related to productivity, but chronic or acute anxiety.".
Whenever I start getting itchy about my system, tools or reading too many productivity books/blogs, something else is going on. The irony is that my attempts to become more productive are a tell that I'm ignoring something more meaningful or important.
March 17, 2024 at 12:01 |
avrum
avrum
Write Everything is incorrect. You can’t do everything. Not everything needs to be done. So write everything that needs to be done.
There is room for more things. These more don’t need to be done. If you don’t write them and they don’t get done, it’s okay. If you do write them, don’t write too much or you’ll be overwhelmed. Or if you write too much, be sure to manage your list to remove things.
There is room for more things. These more don’t need to be done. If you don’t write them and they don’t get done, it’s okay. If you do write them, don’t write too much or you’ll be overwhelmed. Or if you write too much, be sure to manage your list to remove things.
March 17, 2024 at 13:40 |
Alan Baljeu
Alan Baljeu
@jeemo, I think this is what I've been intuitively sensing. Write down stuff so your mind senses it's safely captured, wisely use a backburner to manage overwhelm, choose a smaller set to focus on right now.
@avrum, really interesting insight. I'm now thinking a great question might be something like why or about what do I think I'm feeling anxious? And then what could I do to address that? And then what tool or technique do I already know that I should use? For example, Mark's classic No-List has been gold for me when I'm feeling overwhelmed, or even unsure about what to do with a block of time. Pause, pick anything, write it down, do it, cross it off, repeat. Do not do anything (and I mean anything!) without picking and writing it down before doing it. It's like magic because of the intentionality and recognition that we can only do one thing at a time.
@Alan, thank you for the reminder to be a little more intentional about what I write down. Also, to have more consistent and intentional ways of culling my overgrown lists. Something as simple as a "culled options" folder or category might be interesting. Move things there once a week. They are safe if I ever want them, but out of the way of the limited real work I want and need to do.
@avrum, really interesting insight. I'm now thinking a great question might be something like why or about what do I think I'm feeling anxious? And then what could I do to address that? And then what tool or technique do I already know that I should use? For example, Mark's classic No-List has been gold for me when I'm feeling overwhelmed, or even unsure about what to do with a block of time. Pause, pick anything, write it down, do it, cross it off, repeat. Do not do anything (and I mean anything!) without picking and writing it down before doing it. It's like magic because of the intentionality and recognition that we can only do one thing at a time.
@Alan, thank you for the reminder to be a little more intentional about what I write down. Also, to have more consistent and intentional ways of culling my overgrown lists. Something as simple as a "culled options" folder or category might be interesting. Move things there once a week. They are safe if I ever want them, but out of the way of the limited real work I want and need to do.
March 17, 2024 at 15:42 |
Scott Moehring
Scott Moehring
Scott:
<<I'm now thinking a great question might be something like why or about what do I think I'm feeling anxious? And then what could I do to address that?>>
This is where things get tricky. I'll give you a personal example:
You and I are both guitar players, in their 50s. Me? I want to start playing/recording and performing again. But thoughts about being "too old", or "Does anyone really need MORE music?". All the self-doubt stuff. I can go on and on. But those existential questions about creating music aren't easily handled by a task list, or improved mission statement. Pen/paper vs Tablet wont' cut it.
If I'm not careful, this anxiety can manifest in multiple book purchases on music creation and performance anxiety.
However, both Mark and David Allen do encourage writing down question/concerns and reviewing them on a semi-regular basis. I do find this settles the mind a bit. But only a bit.
When I'm not so stupid, I'm able to put down the latest goal setting book, and just do the damn thing I'm scared of or resisting. This can be as simple as calling a friend to jam, or work on a song together. Or as complex as reaching out to a sibling who you haven't spoken to in a few years (but know you should).
<<I'm now thinking a great question might be something like why or about what do I think I'm feeling anxious? And then what could I do to address that?>>
This is where things get tricky. I'll give you a personal example:
You and I are both guitar players, in their 50s. Me? I want to start playing/recording and performing again. But thoughts about being "too old", or "Does anyone really need MORE music?". All the self-doubt stuff. I can go on and on. But those existential questions about creating music aren't easily handled by a task list, or improved mission statement. Pen/paper vs Tablet wont' cut it.
If I'm not careful, this anxiety can manifest in multiple book purchases on music creation and performance anxiety.
However, both Mark and David Allen do encourage writing down question/concerns and reviewing them on a semi-regular basis. I do find this settles the mind a bit. But only a bit.
When I'm not so stupid, I'm able to put down the latest goal setting book, and just do the damn thing I'm scared of or resisting. This can be as simple as calling a friend to jam, or work on a song together. Or as complex as reaching out to a sibling who you haven't spoken to in a few years (but know you should).
March 17, 2024 at 16:16 |
avrum
avrum
avrum:
I'm not ready to give up on this question yet — "why or about what do I think I'm feeling anxious? And then what could I do to address that?" :)
I think you are hinting around what I have found to be true. Action lowers anxiety. And, the bigger the anxiety, the smaller the action might have to be.
I'm afraid I'm too old to perform and record guitar again. Well, what could I do? I could ask a friend to jam. I could watch some unprofessional videos of older people playing and enjoying it. I could send my friend chords and lyrics for a chorus I wrote. I could send my friend lyrics for a chorus I wrote, and ask if they have ideas for the music.
The way I was thinking of "What could I do?" includes all variations of "could" — what I am physically, mentally, emotionally, courageously, fearfully, willing to try even one time. I hear it in the voice that you use to encourage a nervous child. I hear it in the voice of my Future Self asking me "What's better today?"
Trying to think my way out of something I'm anxious about usually makes it worse. It grows, and I shrink. How do I know? Because I catch myself doing it all the time! For some reason, it's so much easier for me to encourage someone else to pick one small thing, and if they can't, then pick smaller. For myself, all too often I have made something I'm anxious or unsure about into something huge, and when I finally take action I'm done in 15 minutes.
I need to remember that action lowers my anxiety. I think of anxiety as negative-skewed imagination. My personal definition is "Anxiety is 1) negative emotion 2) felt in the present 3) about a predicted future." That doesn't mean it's not real!
Doing something real turns the light on it, and constrains it. It's no longer predicted, which its infinite possible outcomes. I can see the actual feedback from reality about my small action.
Maybe it worked out way better than I thought. Maybe it's horrible to look at, but I always think the monster movies are scarier when the monster is hiding in the shadows and it's mostly your imagination. Once it's out in the open you can face it. Even just queuing up a draft to that sibling that says "I was just thinking about you" gets you one step closer to reconnecting.
I'm not ready to give up on this question yet — "why or about what do I think I'm feeling anxious? And then what could I do to address that?" :)
I think you are hinting around what I have found to be true. Action lowers anxiety. And, the bigger the anxiety, the smaller the action might have to be.
I'm afraid I'm too old to perform and record guitar again. Well, what could I do? I could ask a friend to jam. I could watch some unprofessional videos of older people playing and enjoying it. I could send my friend chords and lyrics for a chorus I wrote. I could send my friend lyrics for a chorus I wrote, and ask if they have ideas for the music.
The way I was thinking of "What could I do?" includes all variations of "could" — what I am physically, mentally, emotionally, courageously, fearfully, willing to try even one time. I hear it in the voice that you use to encourage a nervous child. I hear it in the voice of my Future Self asking me "What's better today?"
Trying to think my way out of something I'm anxious about usually makes it worse. It grows, and I shrink. How do I know? Because I catch myself doing it all the time! For some reason, it's so much easier for me to encourage someone else to pick one small thing, and if they can't, then pick smaller. For myself, all too often I have made something I'm anxious or unsure about into something huge, and when I finally take action I'm done in 15 minutes.
I need to remember that action lowers my anxiety. I think of anxiety as negative-skewed imagination. My personal definition is "Anxiety is 1) negative emotion 2) felt in the present 3) about a predicted future." That doesn't mean it's not real!
Doing something real turns the light on it, and constrains it. It's no longer predicted, which its infinite possible outcomes. I can see the actual feedback from reality about my small action.
Maybe it worked out way better than I thought. Maybe it's horrible to look at, but I always think the monster movies are scarier when the monster is hiding in the shadows and it's mostly your imagination. Once it's out in the open you can face it. Even just queuing up a draft to that sibling that says "I was just thinking about you" gets you one step closer to reconnecting.
March 18, 2024 at 17:39 |
Scott Moehring
Scott Moehring
This post, writen 17 years ago by Mark can help "The Menu of Life":
http://markforster.squarespace.com/blog/2007/4/27/the-menu-of-life.html
http://markforster.squarespace.com/blog/2007/4/27/the-menu-of-life.html
March 18, 2024 at 18:31 |
Shamil
Shamil
Shamil,
I just read this article on the Menu of Life a few days ago.
I just read this article on the Menu of Life a few days ago.
March 18, 2024 at 20:37 |
Mark H.
Mark H.
Going back to the original post - it seems Scott has found a method of having several lists.
1. Backlog list - perhaps this is like a catch-all list, or Someday/Maybe list.
2. Ready list - maybe this is drawn from the Backlog List.
3. Doing list - WIP - again it sounds like this is drawn from the Ready list.
This sounds like a good way of handling this.
If one uses a long list, and "little and often", and rewriting items, and writing down everything one has to do, and using an Autofocus-like method - the list is going to get long.
I tried at the end of February to reduce my list from a backlog of 7 days to 4 days, and I succeeded, but it did take quite a bit of time. I decided to start writing my daily routines on index cards to reduce the long list further. I now have too many index cards, and today I consolidated them to have fewer index cards. My landlord unexpectedly 10 days is proposing to raise my rent greatly, so now my backlog is increasing again. So I started a new notebook just devoted to my apartment situation.
The long list method, and the no-list method of writing down each thing before you do it - they are good suggestions, but when do you stop doing it? If someone has no method at all, these are good ways of getting started. It seems each person has to decide where the personal limit, when you stop. I can go for an hour with the no-list method, but my brain begins to tire thinking up what is the next thing to do. I can go all day using an Autofocus method, from waking to bedtime, but again the brain gets exhausted this way. Even Cal Newport advises not planning every minute of non-work time.
One can look at the list as merely scaffolding, as a warmup, so that the brain gets to reach a point where it is ready for flow activity, for intuition. I guess for me the list is more than that, but it seems that it is wise to abandon the list when the motivation and passion is high in a different direction, and go with the flow.
1. Backlog list - perhaps this is like a catch-all list, or Someday/Maybe list.
2. Ready list - maybe this is drawn from the Backlog List.
3. Doing list - WIP - again it sounds like this is drawn from the Ready list.
This sounds like a good way of handling this.
If one uses a long list, and "little and often", and rewriting items, and writing down everything one has to do, and using an Autofocus-like method - the list is going to get long.
I tried at the end of February to reduce my list from a backlog of 7 days to 4 days, and I succeeded, but it did take quite a bit of time. I decided to start writing my daily routines on index cards to reduce the long list further. I now have too many index cards, and today I consolidated them to have fewer index cards. My landlord unexpectedly 10 days is proposing to raise my rent greatly, so now my backlog is increasing again. So I started a new notebook just devoted to my apartment situation.
The long list method, and the no-list method of writing down each thing before you do it - they are good suggestions, but when do you stop doing it? If someone has no method at all, these are good ways of getting started. It seems each person has to decide where the personal limit, when you stop. I can go for an hour with the no-list method, but my brain begins to tire thinking up what is the next thing to do. I can go all day using an Autofocus method, from waking to bedtime, but again the brain gets exhausted this way. Even Cal Newport advises not planning every minute of non-work time.
One can look at the list as merely scaffolding, as a warmup, so that the brain gets to reach a point where it is ready for flow activity, for intuition. I guess for me the list is more than that, but it seems that it is wise to abandon the list when the motivation and passion is high in a different direction, and go with the flow.
March 18, 2024 at 21:10 |
Mark H.
Mark H.
Regarding music:
I have made my living as a musician, as a church music director, which I am recently reluctantly retired from, and piano teacher, which I still continue to do. However, I miss performing music as much as I used to, and I also am getting older like others here. I think the motivation has to start from within me, so I started recently practicing the piano, and I started with 5 minutes a day and kept on adding a minute every day. Last week I reach 35 minutes a day. I would like to reach 60 minutes a day. However, the last few days I have begun to lose interest, and it occurs to me that I need to set some goals to reach 60 minutes, and have something to shoot for.
Perhaps writing them down would help.
At the same time, I started with 5 minutes of daily exercise, and am up to 30 minutes a day, adding a minute every day.
I have made my living as a musician, as a church music director, which I am recently reluctantly retired from, and piano teacher, which I still continue to do. However, I miss performing music as much as I used to, and I also am getting older like others here. I think the motivation has to start from within me, so I started recently practicing the piano, and I started with 5 minutes a day and kept on adding a minute every day. Last week I reach 35 minutes a day. I would like to reach 60 minutes a day. However, the last few days I have begun to lose interest, and it occurs to me that I need to set some goals to reach 60 minutes, and have something to shoot for.
Perhaps writing them down would help.
At the same time, I started with 5 minutes of daily exercise, and am up to 30 minutes a day, adding a minute every day.
March 19, 2024 at 2:33 |
Mark H.
Mark H.
Mark H:
<< I started with 5 minutes a day and kept on adding a minute every day >>
This method of regularly increading practice time always has the same result for me as it's had for you - it works fine for a bit but eventually collapses and you can't get back to it.
I mentioned in a comment a week or so ago a method about book reading. You set yourself a minimum time for reading the book (say 10 minutes). You can stop there or carry on reading for as long as you like after that 10 minutes is up, but you must do the 10 minutes.
This can be applied to almost anything. Exercise, music practice, reading, tidying, walking, whatever. It gets you over the most difficult part of any job - getting started. Once you've done that you will usually find that the total time you spend increases naturally.
I find that this is easier to keep to on a daily basis and easier to get back to on the inevitable occasions when it all comes crashing down.
<< I started with 5 minutes a day and kept on adding a minute every day >>
This method of regularly increading practice time always has the same result for me as it's had for you - it works fine for a bit but eventually collapses and you can't get back to it.
I mentioned in a comment a week or so ago a method about book reading. You set yourself a minimum time for reading the book (say 10 minutes). You can stop there or carry on reading for as long as you like after that 10 minutes is up, but you must do the 10 minutes.
This can be applied to almost anything. Exercise, music practice, reading, tidying, walking, whatever. It gets you over the most difficult part of any job - getting started. Once you've done that you will usually find that the total time you spend increases naturally.
I find that this is easier to keep to on a daily basis and easier to get back to on the inevitable occasions when it all comes crashing down.
March 19, 2024 at 9:11 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
@Mark H
<<it seems Scott has found a method of having several lists.
1. Backlog list - perhaps this is like a catch-all list, or Someday/Maybe list.
2. Ready list - maybe this is drawn from the Backlog List.
3. Doing list - WIP - again it sounds like this is drawn from the Ready list.>>
You are correct on all three things. I learned this from the book Personal Kanban by Jim Benson.
https://www.personalkanban.com/
Like many of the systems here, it's really simple, but really powerful. Its biggest help and ongoing education for me is...
1) how little throughput I actually have (WIP) compared to
2) what I think I can get done soon (READY) compared to
3) what I also thought I would have time for (BACKLOG).
It's really helping me think hard about what to work on next, and to try to limit my overall commitments. I have an incredibly optimistic (and it turns out incredibly unrealistic) view of what I can actually get done in a certain time period.
I'm excited to try Seraphim's RTM. I like his idea of natural filtering into three distinct lists - New, Routine, and Unfinished (i.e. more involved Projects).
<<it seems Scott has found a method of having several lists.
1. Backlog list - perhaps this is like a catch-all list, or Someday/Maybe list.
2. Ready list - maybe this is drawn from the Backlog List.
3. Doing list - WIP - again it sounds like this is drawn from the Ready list.>>
You are correct on all three things. I learned this from the book Personal Kanban by Jim Benson.
https://www.personalkanban.com/
Like many of the systems here, it's really simple, but really powerful. Its biggest help and ongoing education for me is...
1) how little throughput I actually have (WIP) compared to
2) what I think I can get done soon (READY) compared to
3) what I also thought I would have time for (BACKLOG).
It's really helping me think hard about what to work on next, and to try to limit my overall commitments. I have an incredibly optimistic (and it turns out incredibly unrealistic) view of what I can actually get done in a certain time period.
I'm excited to try Seraphim's RTM. I like his idea of natural filtering into three distinct lists - New, Routine, and Unfinished (i.e. more involved Projects).
March 20, 2024 at 15:04 |
Scott Moehring
Scott Moehring
For me, I think it all boils down to letting go.
Catch-all lists let you let go of things on the lists.
No-list methods let you let go of the mental anguish of not being able to do it all right now.
Observing your background programs lets you let go of anxiety and emotions and not have them control you.
In the end, I think a lot of this is all about allowing ourselves to be okay with finitude (an Oliver Burkeman special).
Mark Forster's big breakthrough with long lists, IMO, came when he embraced the intuitive list, which allowed him to have a long list without the overwhelming emotional weight of not having done all the things on the list. It was about letting go of the need to do it all, and instead, just take action now on something worthwhile or desirable, without so much concern about getting it all done.
And the idea that a lot of this comes back to anxiety is probably quite correct. I don't think it's any coincidence that Jesus famously talks about not being anxious for tomorrow more than once, and the Buddhists rather make a big deal of it, too. Confucius and Taoism can even be seen through this lens. David Allen talks about mind like water, which is largely a way of describing the lack of anxiety. Flow state never emerges under the negative conditions of anxiety either.
Bottom line, achievement comes from letting go, especially if holding on is keeping you from acting effectively.
Catch-all lists let you let go of things on the lists.
No-list methods let you let go of the mental anguish of not being able to do it all right now.
Observing your background programs lets you let go of anxiety and emotions and not have them control you.
In the end, I think a lot of this is all about allowing ourselves to be okay with finitude (an Oliver Burkeman special).
Mark Forster's big breakthrough with long lists, IMO, came when he embraced the intuitive list, which allowed him to have a long list without the overwhelming emotional weight of not having done all the things on the list. It was about letting go of the need to do it all, and instead, just take action now on something worthwhile or desirable, without so much concern about getting it all done.
And the idea that a lot of this comes back to anxiety is probably quite correct. I don't think it's any coincidence that Jesus famously talks about not being anxious for tomorrow more than once, and the Buddhists rather make a big deal of it, too. Confucius and Taoism can even be seen through this lens. David Allen talks about mind like water, which is largely a way of describing the lack of anxiety. Flow state never emerges under the negative conditions of anxiety either.
Bottom line, achievement comes from letting go, especially if holding on is keeping you from acting effectively.
March 26, 2024 at 11:00 |
Aaron Hsu
Aaron Hsu
"be okay with finitude" <-- excellent!
I think my problem has often been feeling some responsibility to all the things on my list. What I seem to forget is that I put them there! I'm making my own problem.
Clearly I don't write every possible thing on my lists (even though I know I should lower resistance to that). I already filter before I write down. Why? Maybe because I know that my lists are already longer than I can complete. Writing them makes me feel committed at some level. I love No-List for that reason. The only commitment is the next thing I choose in the moment, write down, and work on until I feel like stopping. It's such a great method for a day. I just don't trust it over longer periods because of all the longer term things I forget about. It seems to be excellent for short term things that are top of mind.
I wish I could get to that point with my Long Lists. They are the exact same thing, in a sense, because I pick one thing in the moment, and then work on it until I feel like stopping. The difference is not what I actually doing. It's the increased awareness of everything I'm NOT doing. I have all this anxiety and pressure and sense of failure from keeping that Long List fresh in my mind every time I look for my next item.
--- I haven't tried this, but what about Long No-List? ----
1) Keep a running Long List. Add anything to it at any time. Review it once every 1-7 days. You can cross off anything you already did, or that you decide not to do anymore. However, don't do anything on the list! This is just a review to keep it fresh in your mind so nothing will fall through too big a crack, and you trust your process. It would probably be best to do this away from your desk so you aren't tempted to actually work.
2) Operate from a No-List. Do not consult the Long List unless absolutely necessary. Just let the recent Long List review and the process of adding things to it in the background be enough. Learn to trust, be in the moment, accept my finite capacity, and generate the No-List one item at a time as the day goes on.
I'm thinking my hope would be that over time I would stretch out the time between Long List reviews until I found a comfortable interval where I trusted my No-List every day. Or, maybe I just choose and write "review Long List" on my No-List whenever I feel like squirmy about what I might be overlooking.
I don't use AI yet, but it feels like a useful helper for Long No-List would be for AI to compare my No-List to my Long List, and highlight any possible matches to check off. For example, I wrote "practice disc golf drive" on my No-List, and I already had "disc golf practice" on my Long List. When I went to check it off, it would say "I found this possible match on your Long List." I could say yep, those are the same, and it would be checked off on the Long List. This would be so helpful because I wouldn't have to scan the Long List to find it, which would flood my brain with all other the things I hadn't done while I looked for the one thing I actually did!
I think my problem has often been feeling some responsibility to all the things on my list. What I seem to forget is that I put them there! I'm making my own problem.
Clearly I don't write every possible thing on my lists (even though I know I should lower resistance to that). I already filter before I write down. Why? Maybe because I know that my lists are already longer than I can complete. Writing them makes me feel committed at some level. I love No-List for that reason. The only commitment is the next thing I choose in the moment, write down, and work on until I feel like stopping. It's such a great method for a day. I just don't trust it over longer periods because of all the longer term things I forget about. It seems to be excellent for short term things that are top of mind.
I wish I could get to that point with my Long Lists. They are the exact same thing, in a sense, because I pick one thing in the moment, and then work on it until I feel like stopping. The difference is not what I actually doing. It's the increased awareness of everything I'm NOT doing. I have all this anxiety and pressure and sense of failure from keeping that Long List fresh in my mind every time I look for my next item.
--- I haven't tried this, but what about Long No-List? ----
1) Keep a running Long List. Add anything to it at any time. Review it once every 1-7 days. You can cross off anything you already did, or that you decide not to do anymore. However, don't do anything on the list! This is just a review to keep it fresh in your mind so nothing will fall through too big a crack, and you trust your process. It would probably be best to do this away from your desk so you aren't tempted to actually work.
2) Operate from a No-List. Do not consult the Long List unless absolutely necessary. Just let the recent Long List review and the process of adding things to it in the background be enough. Learn to trust, be in the moment, accept my finite capacity, and generate the No-List one item at a time as the day goes on.
I'm thinking my hope would be that over time I would stretch out the time between Long List reviews until I found a comfortable interval where I trusted my No-List every day. Or, maybe I just choose and write "review Long List" on my No-List whenever I feel like squirmy about what I might be overlooking.
I don't use AI yet, but it feels like a useful helper for Long No-List would be for AI to compare my No-List to my Long List, and highlight any possible matches to check off. For example, I wrote "practice disc golf drive" on my No-List, and I already had "disc golf practice" on my Long List. When I went to check it off, it would say "I found this possible match on your Long List." I could say yep, those are the same, and it would be checked off on the Long List. This would be so helpful because I wouldn't have to scan the Long List to find it, which would flood my brain with all other the things I hadn't done while I looked for the one thing I actually did!
March 30, 2024 at 16:45 |
Scott Moehring
Scott Moehring
Interesting idea. I kindof agree that there might be an issue of duplication. I suppose AI could be useful, otherwise just scratch off duplicates when you notice them when you do your once a day consolidation/review.
March 31, 2024 at 15:17 |
Alan Baljeu
Alan Baljeu
@Alan Your suggestion to "just scratch off duplicates when you notice them when you do your once a day consolidation/review" is exactly right.
I realized that the magic of No-List for me is pen and paper. Something about the act of physically writing The Next Thing. It really lets me disconnect from the anxiety of my Long List in a healthy way. I'm actually checking in with myself moment to moment to decide what to do next, and the answer could be "walk to the mailbox". It's remarkable how this simple technique incorporates urgency, importance, fun, breaks, awareness of available time, long productive flowy grinds, unexpected opportunities, and yet actually discourages losing long periods to wandering the internet.
So of course, manually crossing things off my digital Long List during a review is the way to go. AI is no help with that, but upon reflection that's a good thing. I think reviewing and manually crossing off manually is better because...
1) I get a chance to make sure it's really done, and write down another step if there is one.
2) I get a little boost by reminding myself how much I actually completed. Nothing quite like seeing something on a Long List that I already did and crossing it off!
3) Due to the Zeigarnik Effect, I tend to completely forget things I have done. This is not always a great thing. It will be interesting to see if checking them off twice (once on the No-List, and once on the Long List during a review) will make my completions a little easier to recall.
Once again, I am reminded how something works in my head (like my AI idea) can only be tested IF I ACTUALLY TRY IT. Funny how this is the same for great ideas that turn out to not work after all, as well as those "too simple to work" ideas that actually work really well.
As one of my favorite exercise gurus says, "you are free to criticize any program, but only after you have tried it as described". I wonder how much the world of criticism would change if that simple philosophy was more common?
I realized that the magic of No-List for me is pen and paper. Something about the act of physically writing The Next Thing. It really lets me disconnect from the anxiety of my Long List in a healthy way. I'm actually checking in with myself moment to moment to decide what to do next, and the answer could be "walk to the mailbox". It's remarkable how this simple technique incorporates urgency, importance, fun, breaks, awareness of available time, long productive flowy grinds, unexpected opportunities, and yet actually discourages losing long periods to wandering the internet.
So of course, manually crossing things off my digital Long List during a review is the way to go. AI is no help with that, but upon reflection that's a good thing. I think reviewing and manually crossing off manually is better because...
1) I get a chance to make sure it's really done, and write down another step if there is one.
2) I get a little boost by reminding myself how much I actually completed. Nothing quite like seeing something on a Long List that I already did and crossing it off!
3) Due to the Zeigarnik Effect, I tend to completely forget things I have done. This is not always a great thing. It will be interesting to see if checking them off twice (once on the No-List, and once on the Long List during a review) will make my completions a little easier to recall.
Once again, I am reminded how something works in my head (like my AI idea) can only be tested IF I ACTUALLY TRY IT. Funny how this is the same for great ideas that turn out to not work after all, as well as those "too simple to work" ideas that actually work really well.
As one of my favorite exercise gurus says, "you are free to criticize any program, but only after you have tried it as described". I wonder how much the world of criticism would change if that simple philosophy was more common?
April 1, 2024 at 20:11 |
Scott Moehring
Scott Moehring
Scott:
<<"you are free to criticize any program, but only after you have tried it as described".>>
So very true. Every single productivity system/method sounds wonderful on paper. I mean, David knew what he was doing when he used "mind like water" to sell the benefits of GTD. I have found the above philsophy allowed me to borrow this and that from GTD, 7 Habits, Wishcraft, etc, and create my own thing. It also gave me "in the trenches" experience of what is hyperbole.
Recently, I reread GTD. There's some good nuggets in that book. But I remember trying it as described, and a lot of David's suggestions did not work for my way of working/thinking.
<<"you are free to criticize any program, but only after you have tried it as described".>>
So very true. Every single productivity system/method sounds wonderful on paper. I mean, David knew what he was doing when he used "mind like water" to sell the benefits of GTD. I have found the above philsophy allowed me to borrow this and that from GTD, 7 Habits, Wishcraft, etc, and create my own thing. It also gave me "in the trenches" experience of what is hyperbole.
Recently, I reread GTD. There's some good nuggets in that book. But I remember trying it as described, and a lot of David's suggestions did not work for my way of working/thinking.
April 1, 2024 at 21:27 |
avrum
avrum
I think for me the answer is often to Re-Write everything. I think we often miss the reason starting a new system feels so effective. The act of writing things odwn in a fresh new way tends to clarify our thinking.
Apparently Stephan King said "“I write to find out what I think.” Joan Didion said “I don't know what I think until I write it down.” Finally William Faulkner said something like “I don’t know what I think until I read what I said,”
I am learning the value of letting list making be a part of my day and when I write the same things over and over again, hopefully a little different each time, it gets a little more clear and/or closer to completion.
Apparently Stephan King said "“I write to find out what I think.” Joan Didion said “I don't know what I think until I write it down.” Finally William Faulkner said something like “I don’t know what I think until I read what I said,”
I am learning the value of letting list making be a part of my day and when I write the same things over and over again, hopefully a little different each time, it gets a little more clear and/or closer to completion.
April 1, 2024 at 23:07 |
Brent
Brent
I feel a tension between everything I want to write down so I remember it, and just trusting that I will remember the important stuff and risk that the rest can be forgotten.
I seem to bounce back and forth between these two:
I extend my limited mental holding capacity by writing everything down. All tasks, possible tasks, urgent tasks, future tasks. It's all captured, but eventually I overwhelm the system to the point I can't ever finish the list. I then can't even face the list because it's too much, or I cherry-pick the easy stuff which is often low value. The value of capturing everything has been destroyed by having to sort through the everything I captured. If everything is written but I don't see it, is that effective?
Or
I use my limited mental holding capacity as a filter to only take on what I can do, in real time. I trust my intuition that I won't forget anything important, or that outside forces will remind me, and just pick in the moment from whatever pops up. It could be a fire drill, or something I recall because trip over it, or my own curiosity, but I just pick one thing at a time, or make an ad-hoc group of the next 2-3 things. In this way I only deal with a small percentage of the possible actions I think of, but in reality, that's all I can complete anyway. If it's not written down and I'm productive but I forget something, is that effective?
RELATED: I see variations of these opposites in the PKM world. Organize your files, or just use search when you think of something. Plan your day, or go with the flow. Have a full list of options, or just 1-3 big things. Advice and systems often seem to fall in these two camps. Sometimes there are combinations, like long list plus dotting a very short list.
MY CONCLUSION: Maybe the most effective is just a dance between the two. I'm using Personal Kanban for the Lenten Challenge. My Backlog list is long and unmoving. My Ready list is not too scary. My Work In Progress (i.e. Doing) is only three items that I have intentionally picked. It's very focusing and easy to engage. It also pushes me to complete, because that's the only way to open up a spot to pull something from the Ready list.
What it's really been showing me is that my throughput capacity is not at all what I thought it was. It's forcing me to be honest about what I can actually get done. It's been a little depressing because I have all these wonderful things I want to do that never seem to move closer to the WIP (Doing) list. However, there is also something really good about seeing how little I can get completed. It's helping me be more intentional about what I move to Doing. It's definitely not as good for Little and Often, which I love in principle, and which I have enjoyed with many of Mark's systems. Well, I guess it's good for Little and Often on the three things in the WIP (Doing) list!
I'd love to hear your thoughts on this potentially false dichotomy. :)