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Discussion Forum > AF and ADD / ADHD

The reason why I am so exited about AF is that it helps me to focus on the process, it is an ongoing reward system. I suffer from adult ADD (the "dreamy" type, not the twitchy one) and tend to procrastinate a lot. Or work in binges.

I tried many systems, but the problem was that they proved a constant source of distraction. More importantly, systems like GTD focus on outcomes, not on the process. In all creative tasks, especially when it comes to writing, the process is more important than the outcome. When writing my dissertation with GTD, I had a lot of complex tasks like "write abstract", and they would sit in my system for ages. Instead, GTD rewarded my for crossing off simple actions like "copy article X".

I still think about projects, but the most important idea from AF is that it helps me focus on the next step, not a fantasy ideal workflow of my huge delayed task.

February 21, 2009 at 14:22 | Unregistered CommenterMark
by the way, the way ADD / ADHD is treated, apart from medication, relies heavily on Behavioral Management, especially reward systems.

for example:

"Create charts with points or stars for good behavior or for completed tasks. "

http://www.umm.edu/patiented/articles/managing_attention-deficit_hyperactivity_disorder_000030_9.htm

By the way, this is one of the reasons computer games are such a potent distractions: They reward every little action (with new screens / music / ...), while life usually doesn't.

I am glad I found a new reward system. Be gone, WoW !
February 21, 2009 at 14:29 | Unregistered CommenterMark
Glad to hear it is working for you, Mark, and thanks for the information about ADD/ADHD.
February 21, 2009 at 14:56 | Registered CommenterMark Forster
ADD-er here as well, and I agree that AutoFocus provides enough structure both to focus my attention for long enough and to limit the "binges" or hyperfocus (the upside of ADD). Most of my students are also "differently abled."

I highly recommend a book by Edward Hallowell called CrazyBusy: Overstretched, Overbooked, and About to Snap! Strategies for Coping in a World Gone ADD. Hallowell is a physician and specialist in ADD who writes in a clear, readable (and amusing) style and this book has been a great resource for me in my research on how to encourage creative thinking in students. His thesis is that many of us are not suffering from ADD so much as just suffering from modern life:

"People with untreated ADD rush around a lot, feel impatient wherever they are, love speed, get frustrated easily, lose focus in the middle of a task or a conversation because some other thought catches their attention, bubble with energy but struggle to pay attention to one issue for more than a few seconds, talk fast of feel at a loss for words, often forget where they’re going or what they’re going to get, have bright ideas but can’t implement them, fail to complete what they’re doing, have many projects going simultaneously but chronically postpone completing them, make decisions impulsively because their brain’s circuitry is overloaded, feel they could do a lot more if they could just get it together, get angry easily when interrupted, feel powerless over the piles of stuff that surround them, resolve each day to do better tomorrow, and in general feel busy beyond belief but not all that productive.

"Many people who do not have true ADD do have many of those symptoms these days. You might say they suffer from a severe case of modern life."
February 21, 2009 at 17:37 | Unregistered CommenterLiz I.
There was a mention in New Scientist recently that sleep problems may be a factor in ADD/ADHD, amongst a whole host of other conditions. A thought provoking article.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20126962.100-are-bad-sleeping-habits-driving-us-mad.html?full=true
February 21, 2009 at 17:48 | Unregistered CommenterKevin Geoghegan
Thanks for the link, Kevin. I'll definitely check out the article, since sleep deprivation/insomnia seems so common.
February 21, 2009 at 18:59 | Unregistered CommenterLiz I.
I also like Ned Hallowell's books - they are informative, but readable. Most of all, it feels motivating that H. is struggling with this condition as well - helped me a lot to leave my comfort zone.

After I was diagnoses with ADD I was desparate how it could be treated - so many failures since childhood suddenly had an explanation, and I could no longer attribute it to external factors. Medication helps a lot, but I see it more as a temporary fix, that helps me to grow into different routines and adopt new habits: an effective task management, for example.

Other things that help (possibly also against "modern-life-ADD") are, of course, regular physical activity, and, surprise, meditation:

http://www.usnews.com/articles/science/medical-science/2008/09/02/study-zen-meditation-really-does-clear-the-mind.html
http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0003083

So I wanted to start running, and Zen. Although I found a good course for the latter, changing habits is difficult, and I had to find a way to track progress here. The idea is actually from my fitness club, where they let me enter exercises into a spreadsheet to track progress. I helped me a lot to stay on track. Then I found a similar idea from a very productive artist:

http://lifehacker.com/software/motivation/jerry-seinfelds-productivity-secret-281626.php

Seinfeld marks every day he worked on his script in his calendar, with a cross: "don't break the chain". This is actually a reward system.

(Ben Franklin used a similar one as a "reminder":
http://lifehacker.com/software/goals/benjamin-franklins-13-personal-goals-156858.php )

In last few months, I managed to stay on track with a similar system: a simple spreadsheet with one row for every day, and one column for every activity. At the end of the day (or a few day later if I "forgot"), I would 'check off' the recurrent activites. I put in a minimum time as a definition when the goal is met.

My activities at the moment are "Z >10" (10 minutes or more of meditation), "G >30" (30 minutes or more in the gym), "R > 20" (20 minutes or more running), and "W >15" (working on current writing projects, usually in the morning).

I used to track mood, sleep and weight on this sheet as well, but stopped because they were generally ok (but I found interesting links between mood, sleep and sport).

I placed this spreadsheet in my "at home" list, in AF. I found it convenient to have it all in one place, so that at the end of the day, I can make a fast review.

Recurrent activities currently do not fit into the AF system - I wonder if this method might be an interesting addition, at least for diagnosed procrastinators ?
February 22, 2009 at 13:02 | Unregistered CommenterMark
Mark, you seem to have a very positive attitude. I think everybody should aspire to exercise and meditate most days. I also find a log/tracker an essential tool to measure what you are actually achieving as opposed to wishful thinking. A have-done list is at least as important as a to-do list I feel. I also keep recurrent activities on a separate list with a link to AF as I find it more efficient to do them in a block or blocks. Funnily enough, I also set a minimum time period for my major tasks although most people here seem to be happy to count any time spent on a task as a goal achieved. Good luck with the regime.
February 22, 2009 at 15:21 | Unregistered CommenterKevin Geoghegan
Hi Kevin

Your comment regarding minimum time on a task throws up and interesting point. I try not to predetermine a time but obey the "for as long as I feel like" rule. Sometimes that is longer than I would expect and sometimes shorter. However, if you do not move that task off your list (or commit to action it) until you have spent a minimum amount of time on it, you run the danger of turning it into a procrastinator in it's own right. If it is gone from the page, there are less items between you and the other tasks on the page so that they have to be addressed. And by setting that time period you could also increase the resistance to that task itself.

Just a thought ......
February 22, 2009 at 20:57 | Unregistered CommenterChristine B
Christine, for me, setting a minimum timer doesn't increase my resistance, it decreases it, by providing boundaries.

Everyone is different, and each has to find his/her own way, but my "internal" minimum time is 30 minutes. Sure, some tasks only take 15 minutes, and that's great, but if it is a longer task, and if I worked on it for only five minutes, that would just leave me feeling frustrated and frazzled. And I need order and structure for my ADD-ness.

I don't write down a minimum time for tasks in AutoFocus, the "30 minutes unless done sooner" is just my practice.

So, when I am feeling resistance to a task (and academic/adminstrative writing often falls into this category, in that I have to do it for my job but it doesn't have a high degree of intrinsic interest to me) then out comes the timer, and I'll set it for a minimum time of 30 minutes.

Of course, "resistance" in our context means I find the task distasteful but I have CHOSEN to work on it now. As soon as I set the timer, I can relax: I don't have to watch the clock and I don't have to worry about "wasting" a lot of time on this task.

99 times out a 100, I am pleasantly surprised when the timer goes off, as I am deep in the task.

When I am really resisting, I combine the timer with the "I'll just do the worst first draft possible" game. Once I am deep enough into the task--once I'm really committed, then it becomes a challenge, and my competitive steak takes over and it's still hard but it's also a game and I want to finish and I want to do as well as I can.

If I'm working on a deadline on a hard task, I set the timer and play the "Let's see how much work I can get done in an hour!" game. And repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat.

I do a lot of work which is in the "I know this is weird/I don't know what I'm doing/I hope this isn't too stupid/I hope this isn't a waste of time" because I do a lot of creative work and I'm very often outside my comfort zone and very often afraid. The timer/minimum decreases that fear and makes me more likely to work on the task, not less likely.

Apologies if the earlier post I wrote that the server ate somehow is exhumed!
February 22, 2009 at 23:55 | Unregistered CommenterLiz I.
Hi Liz

Thanks for your post - that's really interesting. It's really helpful to read how we almost have different needs in the ways in which we approach things - I think that in itself will make an interesting study. I suspect that it is probably still too early in the life of AF for the long term benefits and effects to be fully identified but I can see a lot of discussion in the future based on the insights gained from using the sysem.

I found your earlier post above about ADD really interesting also. For some years I have wondered whether I had ADD - a lot of the symptoms seemed to fit, and would explain some of the difficulties I had through my school years. I have certainly found a lot of the techniques of Time Management specifically aimed at ADD to be helpful but that does not in any way prove anything and self diagnosis is a particularly inexact science!. Reading your comments above was really helpful, particularly the quote "Many people who do not have true ADD do have many of those symptoms these days. You might say they suffer from a severe case of modern life." and Kevin's link to the article regarding the effects of sleep disorders was fascinating also. I think there is so much that we don't know about how our minds and bodies work (or don't sometimes!)

Personally I have used the timer technique very effectively in the past but for me - and I stress the for me - it has been unnecessary since I started using AF. The ways in which I do a lot of tasks have changed but there are still areas that need to change more and at this point I do not know which way they will go. For example I have not yet dismissed a single task. How much does that relate to the ability of AF to get things done and how much to a fear of failure? "I have said I will do it so I will do it no matter what." ? At some point I know I will have to address that - I am well aware that AF will not let me ignore it for ever :-). However I am also aware that I have been strongly influenced by having had the things I have yet to do, or complete, being pointed out over the things I have achieved or done. Consequently I have a strong psychological link between doing or achieving and self worth.

Going back to the timer, as I say it is a technique that has been extremely valuable, but at this point for me, and again I stress for me, there would be a danger that it could become another "ought". The "as long as I feel" enables me to achieve - adding any form of time requirement to it would therefore increase resistance in my specific case.

Going back to the quote about modern life, I can also highly recommend a book called Peace Under Pressure by Peter Meadows. In it he identifies a lot of the pressures and stresses caused by modern life and an illustration I particularly recall was in relation to the number of decisions we now have to make as a matter of course. He commented on the purchase of a telephone and pointed out how, in our grandparents day, the choice would have been simple - do we have one or don't we? If the choice was to have one that was it - it was black, with a cord, and would be located somewhere near to the main entrance into the house. Nowadays ........... cordless, mobile, pink, green ......etc etc!

Thanks again Liz!
February 23, 2009 at 9:12 | Unregistered CommenterChristine B
Christine:

I'm interested in how you've managed not to dismiss a single task so far. Have you done that by staying within the rules? I've found dismissing tasks to be a very important part of the process.
February 23, 2009 at 9:48 | Registered CommenterMark Forster
Liz:

There is another timer technique which is particularly effective with big projects. It is "I won't work for *more* than 4 hours on this". I tried it on a major project that I was resisting and the four hours seemed to disappear in no time - I couldn't wait to have another maximum 4 hours the following day!
February 23, 2009 at 9:50 | Registered CommenterMark Forster
Hi Mark

I would say that I done that by staying within the rules but I am also aware it is entirely possible that I have, albeit not consciously, been selective in what I put on the list. To try to explain - I started with a massive backlog position so it was very easy to find tasks to fill my pages. I was "sensible" in that I didn't just dump my entire backlog in in one go, but I suspect (and this is mainly because of your question!) that my backlog items still have a lot of past attitude attached. (Tasks with attitude? That's an interesting concept......)

To try to explain ...... in my DIT system I had a number of backlogs. Those varied in nature but in effect the more recent those backlogs the more likely I was to do them, partly in that they did have a higher importance but also a higher "ought" value. AF in reducing resistance enabled the "ought" items to be done, therefore they were done within the rules. What I am now starting to question is whether that "ought" is/was valid but that is another issue and at this stage of AF one I have "parked for later review". The backlog items I am now adding into my lists are older and I do believe that some of those will be dismissed. I totally understand the importance of dismissing but also recognise my own psychology with this issue which AF is working on!

At this stage I have actually only completed 3 pages and have 34 active pages, many of which have only a couple of items and I am confident that by the end of this week I will have dismissed at least one item! I am not moving as quickly through my pages as recommended - the days when I have very little discretionery time means that I may only get through one or two pages, but I am reviewing, and I am getting things done. If I was getting through my pages at least once or twice a day then I would have had to make those dismissal decisions by now. It is only the slow moving that has inhibited that process but I don't feel a need to adjust my speed.

Does that answer your question Mark? I would be very interested in any suggestions you may have .......
February 23, 2009 at 10:57 | Unregistered CommenterChristine B
Christine

I don't time every task - only 'important' ones, but I take your point about the procrastination. I do strike out the task and re-enter it in AF even if I should work less than my 'minimum time' on it. But I don't add it to my have-done list. Like Liz, I do find a timer to be a great help. Occasionally, when my concentration goes, I remind myself it won't be long until the timer goes off and it helps me concentrate again. If I just worked until I felt I had enough then I probably would just give up at that point. That doesn't happen all that often though.

I don't find the length of time I choose to spend on a task a major factor in procrastination. With me, it's mainly the difficulty just starting that's the problem. But everybody to their own ideas. Whatever works for you is what matters.

Just commenting on attention deficit for a moment and that New Scientist article, the thing that caught my attention(!) was they think different areas of the brain power down at different times, so that not only do you have various levels of consciousness between full arousal and sleep but that certain areas of the brain may be 'sleeping' while others are 'awake'. That could explain a few things! :-)
February 24, 2009 at 1:13 | Unregistered CommenterKevin Geoghegan
I'm definitely trying the "maximum x hours" timer tip, Mark!

I think that'll help with big projects I might resist (I can imagine one right now that'll be coming up pretty soon) AND it'll have another benefit, which is to make sure I don't overdo, which is a real danger. Much, much better for me to do 4 hours one day, 4 hours the next etc than to plunge in for 12 hours and then be so exhausted or so burnt out the project goes moribund again.

In my studio work I always try to end on a high note, when I am wanting to do more. This makes it very easy to start up again the next day.

I've found over and over again in my work that consistency produces more work, and better work, and more creative work. Even if the "consistent" time periods are relatively short.
February 24, 2009 at 3:04 | Unregistered CommenterLiz I.
Hi Kevin

I have found this whole subject fascinating. I have always felt that "my problem" has been along the lines of an inability to focus rather than overfocusing but that has always felt more like a boredom factor than anything. I did struggle with having to force myself to revise or retain interest during school years but if something grabbed my attention then that was different. The problem was that fewer and fewer things grabbed my attention - or perhaps it was merely as simple as teaching methodology. My ability to concentrate was definitely linked to interest which was heaviliy influenced by teaching method. Certainly that pattern has continued into adulthood but with the added factor that I effectively now choose to struggle with things because I feel I ought to. It would be an interesting study to see how many of our modern illnesses - stress, high blood pressure etc are linked to factors arising from ADD or similar styles of "modern living" behaviour.

On the subject of sleep disorders there was a TV documentary series on this a couple of years ago which followed a number of people with sleep disorders and the work of a specific clinic working in that field. One of the things I recall noticing at the time was the fact that Prozac, a common antidepressant, was also used to treat sleep disorders. That obviously ties in with that article in New Scientist so it would seem that the medical profession is certainly aware of these links.

Strangely I am sleeping a lot less since starting AF, and feeling a lot less tired .......... If only I didn't have so much backlog and could devote more time to really looking at these things ........ :-)
February 24, 2009 at 9:41 | Unregistered CommenterChristine B
Christine:

I've definitely found myself that I no longer get round the pages as fast as I used to. What is happening now is that I spent most of my time on the last few pages, basically chasing the end of the list. It's only every two or three days that I go back to earlier pages.

This isn't worrying me because it seems to work very well. Also if anything becomes a live issue I put it on the end of the list without worrying whether it's on an earlier page or not.
February 25, 2009 at 17:41 | Registered CommenterMark Forster
Hi Mark

It's really encouraging to hear you say that - my usage of AF is changing and I keep stopping (well metaphorically speaking) to examine whether I am still "doing it right". I've felt that I am so it is encouraging to hear that my experiences are largely mirroring yours.

I too put live issues on the the list in the same way and only today I've been thinking of experimenting along those lines with one of my projects. I have a fully discretionery day tomorrow so am going to give this idea a try - if it works it might just be the breakthrough I need, if not, well I've lost nothing - and as it is within AF rules it shouldn't compromise my lists. Will report back on "my experiment" tomorrow!
February 25, 2009 at 19:58 | Unregistered CommenterChristine B
Thanks Vince Os_bot for raising the profile of this interesting thread i hadn’t seen before!
December 21, 2022 at 16:46 | Registered CommenterAlan Baljeu