Get Everything Done

Is there any sort of Inventory list? Where are incoming tasks parked so they are not basically forgotten about? (I'm curious because I'd like to understand it...not trying to be difficult).

I suppose a dated notebook page could have incoming tasks listed on it and a large post it note could overlay that?

I agree with Alan. Remembering all the little commitments (which can become big issues if missed, but are low-key in the short term) while I am working on the bigger and more obvious things is a primary reason I use list-based systems at all. I would go as far as to say that the primary benefit of Mark's systems for me has been being able to rest confident that everything is accounted for and will get remembered and dealt with in a reasonable time.

Hi Mark and others,

So how is it going using this method? What 'tools' are you using?

I'm thinking a calendar, list for big projects and a big post it note or scrap of paper for the 'no list'.

It would be great to hear feedback...I've been using GSD (getting sh_t done) for about a week, it's a very good system but I have noticed that the (daily) list seems to be growing!

Nuntym

"No List" FVP looks like too blunt an instrument for me in my day-to-day activities, but it looks very promising for vacation times. I am about to take a month's vacation and I plan to use it as a trial for that month.

On vacation, I find that when I get into "holiday mode" I tend to just "vegetate". This is fine up to a point, but I do like the feeling that comes with meaningful activities, enriching pursuits and stress-free keeping up with essential chores.

So "No List" may well offer me an escape from the disciplines of "the list" but may still retain enough structure to add to the joys and peace of mind that a vacation ought to be about.

By the way, my plan will involve consulting an inventory of 26 things that I would value doing on vacation, as suggested by Alan Baljeu: "Now, a list of important things that I occasionally look at while doing this no-list thing makes a lot of sense to me."

I've been using questionless FVP, in my Arc-bound unlined notebook, unhacked, since 6/16 - the longest I've ever used a single unhacked task management system ever. That, by the way, is a ringing endorsement for FVP. I cannot say I’ve ever gone 6 months with a single system without hacking it at least 12 ways.

This has held true for my work commitments. I find that FVP does not work for me at home. Applying the ever-reliable DIT audit to the situation, I came to the conclusion that I cannot leave enough discretionary time for FVP'ing my list at home. As such, my home FVP list grows with commitments I haven’t addressed, and then I also have too many commitments! As a father and husband, I want to be there for my wife and two young boys – and I am. They are not the “problem” nor is my effort in being there for them. It’s just the nature of raising two little ones which leaves little discretionary time to pursue an FVP list, and it also results in lots of interruptions and changing priorities. True, FVP is sensitive to changing priorities, but things can change way too quickly for me to consult my FVP list all the time.

So at home I primarily have been using a kind of mental SMEMA. (How does this play into No List FVP? I'm getting there) With Mental SMEMA, I mentally note the thing I'm doing and the next two to four things I intend to do, in the order I intend to do them. When an interruption arises, I re-arrange the next two to four tasks in my mind, but I continue working the first task. This allows me to continue the first task uninterrupted, adjust for changing priorities, and move right into the next task without stopping. Rarely, I will supplant the first and current task for something extra urgent, again rearranging the mental list in my head; but I avoid doing so if at all possible. Basically, what it comes down to, is I ensure that I always know what I’m currently doing, and at least the next two things.

I must stress, that I keep these tasks at the "get the folder out" level. If the tasks get too big, it stops working. For instance "Wash Dishes" might appear on my FVP list, but in mental SMEMA, it's "put away clean dishes, rinse food off of dirty dishes, load dishwasher," which becomes a mantra of "put away, rinse, load - put away, rinse, load" while I work. Upon putting the last clean dish away, my mantra changes to "rinse, load, wipe counter" and so on - like a revolving door of mental mini tasks.

I find this works phenomenally when it comes to "putting out fires". It keeps me focused on immediate action, handles interruption without distracting from the current task, and builds quick and sustainable momentum by eliminating the need to consult a list between tasks. I find it drops me into the Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi "Flow State" so easily it's ridiculous. It is an excellent crank to turn for cranking type tasks which I call "Holders"

"Holders" are reoccurring tasks that you must continually repeat just to break even and "hold your ground" like dishes, laundry, email, and other such routines. Doing them doesn’t advance you anywhere in life, but neglecting them can land you in trouble quickly. "Gainers" are those tasks which you can complete with a reasonable expectation that you will not have to complete them again, thus "gaining ground" in some direction. Doing them will advance you toward whatever goal they support, and neglecting them will keep you right where you are.

So Mental SMEMA rocks the Holders like nobody's business in my experience. But it totally falls apart when it comes to Gainers. I need FVP to keep me on top of my Gainers. But as I said, at home FVP is not so practical for me.

SO! Now finally to the point. It sounds like this No-List FVP could be used mentally, to combine Mental SMEMA with FVP. I could use my standard FVP list to point out the next Gainer task. That Gainer Task could be the beginning of a No-List FVP chain which I would keep in my mind. Theoretically, this would allow me the same level of interruption handling and flexibility as Mental SMEMA, but it may culminate in actually doing a Gainer...

I look forward to trying this out as a mental exercise… I guess this means I haven’t been COMPLETELY hack free for 6 months. But does hacking your mental system really count as hacking? Or is that just “learning?”

Thanks, Miracle: if only I'd thought of this 25 years ago...

:0)

I'm not shure, if I understand this correctly. You choose one task plus two to four addtional tasks from your standard fvp list then. Isn't that against the very central rule of FVP (where it differs from FV), to choose one and only one task at a time? That would be no crime, of course, but, man, it would definitely be hacking!

Or have I misunderstood something?

Very nice mental exercise, though.

Oh no! I've mistook no question FVP for no list FVP. Sorry!

@ Laby - Wow you just blew my mind. What about a listless AND questionless method? Just thinking about it kind of makes me feel like I'm Icarus and I'm getting warmer.

@ Will - "if only I'd thought of this 25 years ago..." Lol! That's how I feel about everything on this website!

So I tried this mental no-list FVP last evening with mixed results.

It went like this: Before coming home from work in the evening, I chose one Gainer task that I wanted to accomplish before going to bed. We moved to a new house recently, and there are still boxes lying around to unpack, so I chose “Empty 1 box of books.” This is a Gainer Move because I can reasonably expect that having emptied the box, I won’t have to empty it again. When I got home, I took that task, and said:

“I’ve decided to empty 1 box of book but before that, I need to…”
“Choose which box of books to empty. But before that I need to…”
“Change out of my work clothes. But before that I need to…”
“Take out the garbage. But before that I need to…”
“Nothing.”

So I took out the garbage. As I worked, I talked with my wife about the day, and listened to my boys about theirs. And of course, things began to come up. Before X, I needed to… Help my son with his math homework, do some vegetable prep for the Miracle Family Master Chef, my wife (she’s the culinary artist, and I’m just good with knives), speak with the neighbor about the neighborhood watch thing we’re setting up, squash a bug in the bathroom, usher my boys through the actions they needed to take, and several other things. None of these other things had been planned, and I just addressed them as they came up. I finally did get to unload a box of books, literally last thing before starting my “getting ready for bed” routines. To be fair, this one box represents more progress on the “unpacking” task than I had made in the previous week. So… Success!

Two things about Mental No-List FVP became immediately apparent:

First, as Mark stated in the original FVP rules, I have to accept the fact that I may never get to the root Gainer task – I almost didn’t get to it last evening at all; I only got to it because it wasn’t all that ambitious of a task anyway. That being said, it did BIAS my actions in the general direction of my root Gainer task. This represents a definite improvement on Mental SMEMA alone which merely reacts to what’s going on around me.

Second, I can't mentally think of the list in reverse order. For example, after going through the mental exercise above and coming up with “Take out the garbage” as the next step, No-List FVP would state it:

Empty box of books
Choose box of books
Change clothes
Empty garbage

…and work it in reverse order. After going through the mental exercise and coming up with those 4 tasks, my mind put them in order like with Mental SMEMA:

Empty garbage
Change clothes
Choose box of books
Empty box of books

It seems that the mind can read a list backwards, but it must think in sequence. Perhaps brains just work that way, or perhaps I’ve just conditioned my brain all these months using Mental SMEMA. So basically, while Mental No-List FVP did an excellent job breaking down my goal into a sequence of “Get the Folder Out” actions, I couldn’t help but feed those actions back into Mental SMEMA. Not that this is a bad thing – just noteworthy.

So after this one trial, I’ve come to the following conclusion: Mental No-List FVP works best as a mental planning method. It required that I keep coming back to that root task “Empty 1 box of books,” break it down in light of the continually changing circumstances, and persistently re-insert its constituent actions onto my Mental SMEMA conveyor belt. The method that actually did best at directing my actions and adjusting to circumstance, was still Mental SMEMA.

I’m going to begin an extended trial mentally using the No-List FVP algorithm to feed my Mental SMEMA list.

…And as a side note: I’ve come up with a simpler way of stating the Mental SMEMA rules:

A: Break everything down to minute “Get the Folder Out” sized actions. (I would now add to this, the best way to ensure progress toward accomplishing your Gainers is to use the FVP algorithm to mentally decompose your Gainers into their constituent actions)
B: Always keep in mind your current action, and the next 2-4 actions in the order in which you intend to do them. (I find it helps to reduce the wording of the actions to their barest and repeating them in your head as a mantra. See the example in my previous post where I reduced three actions to a mantra of “put away, rinse, load… put away, rinse, load…”)
C: Change or rearrange the actions and their order as needed. (But as far as is reasonable, avoid changing your current action. I find that if I choose only my current action and the next 2, then I have room for 2 more unexpected actions that might pop up)

Psh. So basically, my findings, even though done mentally rather than written, totally support point # 2 in Mark's original post. Mark said it first.

So, yup - that confirms it. Mark's always a step or two ahead. ;-)

The official question is:

"Is there anything I want to do first?"

I found more effective:

"Is there anything I want to finish first?"

I don't know if it's just me, but I find myself procrastinating like crazy with this method

@Mark:
"The little commitments tend to be things that become routines when you are using a "no list" system. In fact the way in which "no list" systems encourage the development of routines is one of the primary reasons for using them."

What do you mean by this?

A heads-up. I am experimenting consistently with NL-FVP for the past 8 days - resistance being my primary cause of procrastination.

@Mark:

< Haven't you found that you tend to do some recurring tasks in much the same order each day?>

There is recurring project time blocks, not tasks themselves. So evidently no recurring tasks are there. The only routine that is stuck are my morning & evening tea breaks and a lunch break.

So my question, I hope still holds I guess.

To extrapolate, are you then meaning that NL-FVP automatically fosters routine building?

@Seraphim

<<I find the same thing with any of the systems that don't "let" me write out everything on my mind. Or maybe I should say, I don't do well with systems unless they help me get stuff out of my head so I can think.>>

When starting with NL-FVP, this was my biggest concern too. But after experimenting with NL-FVP for so long, I couldn't get back to a list-based system though I tried desperately.

What I found useful was that I had an 'alternate' route to let my mind empty. I use freewriting - either narrative or list form to help my head clear out. That done, I get on with my NL-FVP task engagement process.

I feel that one of the chief selling point of David Allen's system was this 'mind sweeping' or 'brain dumping' process. Like me, I'm guessing people often confuse this with actually getting things done.

For me separating the two processes is helping.

I use the brain dumping to get my head clear. I strictly don't use this list to feed my task engagement process - a conventional approach for most of the productivity systems out there.

While, I use the NL-FVP to actually get things done, because it simply reduces the resistant to the task at hand.
http://sathyawrites.com/10-reasons-no-list-system/

@Mark: I've been saying this other place as well. I think there is something so simple, yet remarkable with the no-list system. I hope you will write about this more.

Satyam 1 said:

"When starting with NL-FVP, this was my biggest concern too. But after experimenting with NL-FVP for so long, I couldn't get back to a list-based system though I tried desperately."

Yes, that's been my experience, too. No-List feels completely natural to me now, after using it regularly these last few months. The thought of placing my neck back under the yoke of a to-do list now feels too daunting to contemplate!

I've had great success with paper notebook No-List FVP in almost every area:

-- no daily backlog buildup,
-- no procrastination,
-- routines naturally handled,
-- easily handling an urgent item added to the bottom of the list,
-- not doing things unless I write them down first forcing conscious breaks rather than just drifting into messing around,
-- actually building a list through the day of things I've done rather than things I hope to get done but probably won't.

Where I struggle and haven't found a simple solution is for two related things:

-- little and often, where I work on something and then want to rewrite it on the list for later,
-- something I think of that needs to be done soon, but definitely not before the the current thing I've decided I want to do first.

If I write either of these items on the bottom, I feel like I'm saying THEY are now what I want to do first. It's like they incorrectly jumped ahead. If however I simply write them down, continue with the task I was currently doing, and then ask the question when I'm done with that task, I end up looking back up the list to compare the new item to the other things I had already written down earlier. It all falls apart because I usually see something up the list which is what I really want to do now.

Can anyone think of a simple solution? Just write them down to capture for action later in the day, then compare with the higher up items, and rewrite the one that I want to do first? Seems like a clunky way to approach this, but I think it does technically follow the rules.