Get Everything Done

This is something that interests me. How do people here concretely practice this aspect of AFx / DIT / DWM, whatever?

From the little I have read here, I believe there are at least a few Christians of varying stripes, some card-carrying atheists, and probably just about everything else.

How does your faith or worldview come into play when approaching these aspects of Mark's ideas?

Mine informs my practice heavily. If this topic is of interest to anyone share and I'll add my own experience as well.

Hey Norman,

I used to be a card carrying atheist. I am still an atheist, but I lost my card somewhere and can't find it ;-)

Since I don't do "faith" as you mean it, I can't directly address that part of your question.

My "world view", in so far as I see it affecting this is:

- Positive. I believe that I can do anything I set my mind to and I believe that my outcome will be what I desire if I work hard enough to get it.

- Rational. I am not much into woo-woo (despite Mark's impression of me ;-) While I believe that "everything is for the best in this the best of all possible worlds", I only believe that is so if we take ACTION and DO something ... not simply wish for it.

- Intuitive. But in a somewhat different way than Mark has been using the term. I find, personally, that while I may intuitively know what I should be doing, that intuition does not get me to do it. IOW, if I don't prioritize, schedule, block time, etc. not much actually gets done. My intuition might inform me of what I should be doing, but it does not motivate me to do it. My intuition mainly guides my selection of goals, not so much my selection of specific actions at specific times in specific ways.

- Contrarian. I suspect I share that with you. ;-) People would mostly describe me as a "glass half full" person ... but I'm actually quite the opposite. I see the downside mostly because I really want the outcome to be successful and I think I can assure that by identifying problems early on. But, as I'm sure you'll agree, no one wants to hear why something is likely to fail.

My background is basically engineering. My father was an engineer and as a child I always tinkered with electronics, etc. My career path was in software engineering (whatever the hell THAT is ;-) But my focus and orientation was always on the process steps of:

- Define Requirements
- Design
- Build
- Test against Design and Requirements

So when it comes to any project I might think of, I don't just "wing it" ... I plan it. I specify my desired outcome and how I'll get there. I'll research it and lay out the steps to get there. Then I don't need "intuition" to tell me what to do. Just like I don't need a "context" to tell me that I need a phone to make a phone call ;-)

Is that what you had in mind? (Great question, BTW)

Nice discussion!

I think in terms of brains rather than souls, but, since we know so little about the brain, I am not a reductionist, in the sense that I can't describe physiological processes.

My view is that virtually everything we do is by intuition, almost unconsciously. Most people (maybe not the German speakers) have no idea how they're going to end a sentence when they begin to utter it. Speech, language--that paradigm of consciousness--is barely conscious. If I had to think consciously and rationally about what I was going to say (or write, as I can hear Norman telling me) I wouldn't get a word out. My fingers just hit the keys on the keyboard that "stand out." I don't want to think about every letter that I must press.

I look at my workday from a phenomenological perspective. The phone rings. Do I answer it? How to deal with interruptions? There are large numbers of calculations being made in my manifold of synapses every moment. Most of them never get close to being conscious.

DIT, AF, DWM change the way these calculations are made.

In my neat little creation myth, we evolved from small bands of hunter-gatherers. That's the environment that shaped my brain. In that environment, there was very little need for long-term planning. At some point, my tribe might need to migrate to avoid famine. And that would involve some medium-term planning. Likewise, I might organize (or get organized) a party to raid the neighboring tribe so that we could kill a few of their warriors and kidnap their women. But most of what I was doing was based on momentary exigencies. My environment changes constantly from moment to moment and I am modifying my behavior constantly to adjust to it.

I don't think that my brain is well-adapted to my job.

I think that DWM (and other systems) create a discipline, or habit, which provide gentle encouragement for my brain to select fewer activities with shorter-term payoffs and more activities with longer-term payoffs. This encouragement only works if I work quite intimately with DWM. That means that the more I can log each change in activity, the more disciplined I become, and the more I focus on the longer-term payoffs.

In this sense, I do believe that David Allen had some insight. The list is the external brain. (End Allen's insight. Begin Forster's insights.) If I count only on my wetware, I am led, inevitably, to choose the immediate and urgent. But if I cultivate the discipline of reviewing my list before I start every new activity, I force myself to consider all the longer-term items that my brain would, on its own devices, choose to ignore.

"David Allen had some insight. The list is the external brain. (End Allen's insight." I think that's pretty close to right :-)

Back on topic. I'm a Christian, and although that fact has a large effect on my life, it's only a marginal influence in my choice of time management.

Basically, life is a wonderful gift from God, and out of gratitude I choose to do what's good. That's my aim, not that I do such very often or very well.

AF (or any system) just helps me be more effective in life, but the real difference is the activities I choose to put into the system, not the system itself.

>>> "David Allen had some insight. The list is the external brain. (End Allen's insight." I think that's pretty close to right :-) <<<

Though I do have to wonder how we got on before we had almost universal literacy and cheap ways to make lists. Before then, we managed to develop our civilization and the technology to make lists possible. Just a thought.

Easy: Before then everything was routines and community. There weren't 20 random things to do every day, there were 20 habitual tasks to carry out in order.

Norman, I've posted on this elsewhere, so I'll be brief. I'm sure you'll approve. :-)

I'm a Christian and before last fall, I would have been in Alan's camp of saying that my faith didn't have much to do with how I gtd. Now I believe it has more to do with it than just which things I choose to do.

Unlike moises, I don't believe that Mark's AF and offspring helps me do fewer activities with short-term payoff. It was quite the opposite for me. My huge list was keeping me in chaos and I did what I needed to do to cross stuff off, regardless of the value of it. I try to keep my planned agenda to a minimum now so that God can direct my day and so I do not get frustrated with myself or others. That means no gigantic list. That isn't to say that Christians can't use AF, etc. effectively. I've just found that I can't.

My interpretation of 'intuition' and 'standing out' as used in AF, DWM, etc is that they are somatic markers , as described at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somatic_markers_hypothesis .

Worldview? Well, maybe: the divine acts as an intermediary between humans and the great void. Or something like that.

I tend to agree with Mel, except that AF4 helps (rather than hurts) me to be more available.

<<How does your faith or worldview come into play when approaching these aspects of Mark's ideas?>>

I'm a pseudo-practicing, agnostic Jew who leads towards the mystical vs. the rational. However my interest in DWM has more to do with informal mindfulness practice than Jewish law/ritual/belief. All in all, I find all of Mark's systems - when I USE them - help me cultivate an atmosphere of mindfulness.

Mike wrote:
<<<Before then, we managed to develop our civilization and the technology to make lists possible. Just a thought. >>>

Hmm, does that sort of imply that DWM is the pinnacle of civilization? That kind of goes along with the "conquer the world" aspect of AF1, that was often discussed a year ago. :-)

Alan, how does it help you to be more available? Does writing it down get it out of your head? I never tried AF4. Like Seraphim, my lists always grew out of control. But I'm a weird one. ;-) I always take things to extremes.

Out of head, before my eyes. I know what *needs* doing. That is important too, keeping what you promised. Before I had a hard time committing to a project because I might forget to work on it. And if someone asked me for help I was like, "I think I'm busy." and maybe I was, I could never be sure. Now I can say with more confidence, yes I will help next Saturday.

Besides that, I couldn't work if I had your type of out of control list, so I take pains to keep it manageable.

"Standing out" has tended to mean, for me, that something "feels ready to be done", to use another one of Mark's phrases. I generally don't give it a lot of thought. I just scan through the list, pause on each item to take it in, and then just acknowledge to myself whatever I happen to feel about that task.

"Nope, not yet"
"Sure, why not"
"Yes, definitely gotta do that!"
"Wow, what was I thinking? Get rid of that!"
"Hmm, maybe later"
"Yeah, gotta do that, really don't want to, maybe I should at least take a look..."

I find this generally doesn't work very well if I am in a scattered frame of mind. And I find that I can preserve a more focused, peaceful frame of mind when I am in a *prayerful* frame of mind: clear conscience, remembering God, prayerfully putting myself before God, trying to repent over whatever sins and weaknesses I've been falling into.

I don't do these things as practices *in order to* attain focus or get "in tune" with my intuition. Rather, the focus and being "in tune" seems to be a by-product of the prayerful state of mind that is the duty of every Christian to attempt to acquire and preserve day by day. I am an Orthodox Christian, and that's how I look at it, for what it's worth.

I also try to put several things on my list that call me back to reality -- the reality of God, the reality of people -- such as "pray for so-and-so" who is dealing with a difficult situation. If I have found myself drifting towards empty, proud, or sinful thoughts or attitudes, running across these kinds of tasks on my list helps stop me in my tracks and get re-calibrated: "Lord, forgive me! What was I thinking? I was all mad at XXX at work, or annoyed at my children, or whatever, meanwhile NNN is going through a divorce and MMM is going into chemotherapy tomorrow and I totally forgot about them!!" Remembering God and remembering the real needs of people during the day really helps just to live a Christian life, keeping a Christian mind and attitude, moving in the direction of "rejoicing with those who rejoice and suffering with those who suffer" and "praying without ceasing", and as a side effect it helps keep the "standing out" process in good working order as well.

>>> Hmm, does that sort of imply that DWM is the pinnacle of civilization? That kind of goes along with the "conquer the world" aspect of AF1, that was often discussed a year ago. :-) ,,,

Maybe that is why Mark is absent so much ... he may be in a crucial phase of his plan for world domination ;-)

Alan, did you use a calendar or any other kind of list before DWM? If not, I can see where it would be a big help. I've kept deadlined projects and tasks on my calendar, but for the most part, I don't need to. The big fish are in the forefront of my thinking all the time. What I would do is open the cabinet with pans falling out of it and I'd write "organize pan cabinet" on my AF list. Throughout the day I would see many other potential things to do and would add them to the list. So then if someone asked me if I could do X, I would think, "No way! I'm too busy!" But really I wasn't.

Now if the pans fall out of the cabinet, I either do it then or wait to be reminded the next time the pans fall out. I have a very short list of absolute must-do's by date together with emails. That was the missing piece for me before gootodo.

Obviously what works for us depends on where we're starting from.

Before AF I did use a calendar but not consistently well. I didn't have an on-the-fly capture system I could use when I was out. And I would think "I'm busy" when I had a nagging doubt about having to organize pan cabinets except I couldn't quite remember what it was I needed to do. Now "pan cabinets" is on my list, I know it, and I *don't* feel pressure by that.

A "known unimportant" has less control over me than an "unknown important-I-think".

I think the role of intuition works best where new tasks and ideas are entered in without conscious filtering, as per Mark's original AF1 instructions. Intuition can be a shrinking violet if it be routinely over-ruled.

Together with "Little and often", and "Similar together", I rate the standing out process as a key part of Mark's ideas.

OK, to allow my wisdom to be more accessible, I am going to reply in a few posts.

Mike:

~"I am a Godless Heathen"

"While I believe that "everything is for the best in this the best of all possible worlds."

I don't know who is turning over faster in their grave: Leibniz or Voltaire. I guess they might agree these two statements is worst of both worlds.

"Contrarian"

Is the only recourse when most people are wrong. But really, I am hardly a contrarian. In fact, I don't think there are more than a few posters other than myself who have advocated a measured and thoughtful use of AFx, before suggesting hacks and tweaks contrary to its rules.

Now in seriousness:

"My intuition might inform me of what I should be doing, but it does not motivate me to do it. My intuition mainly guides my selection of goals, not so much my selection of specific actions at specific times in specific ways."

But how do you experience "intuition", I am not really interested in theories about it, but how one experiences it and cultivates in concrete terms.

What does motivate you? Personally, I find motivation to be a word almost empty of meaning in terms of "creating" or "increasing it". It seems often to simply be an ad hoc tautology. "He is doing the dishes, he must have been motivated to do it, let's make a story up about why."

Most things come down to gross and fine motor movements. I can usually orchestrate these movements in order to accomplish tasks. Motivation really does not come into the equation for me. Will causes and conditions alter my choices in what I do? Of course, but I am not sure they are motivators. And certainly most human behavior would be difficult to describe in terms of motivation, I cannot imagine the project required to make transparent the myriad of factors bearing down upon a single moment of one's life.

Interestingly, you are an atheist and yet you believe in something like the "unconscious".

Most of this post is blather and doubt of much use to anyone, but again what I think would be interesting to hear is:

How do you experience "intuition", I am not really interested in theories about it, but how one experiences it and cultivates it concrete terms.

Lotsa words.

Norman, I would argue that intuition is based on hedonism, that is people choose tasks that are pleasurable and avoid tasks that are painful. The question then is what calculus to you use to define pleasure or pain. For example, it is pleasurable to surf the web and painful to write a report on a boring project. If both are on my DWM list, surfing the web may stand out because of this.

But, on my second pass, when I see that "write a report on a boring project" stands out, it is because either the pleasure I will have of getting it done outweighs the pain of doing it, or the pain I will get from not doing it is greater than the pain I will gate from doing it.

I'm a utilitarian and think that many of us approach decision-making this way. this does not mean we always do what is pleasurable for us, but at that moment, we tend to think that that choice will lead to more pleasure than pain.

What I like about DWM is seeing how the expiration dates affect this hedonic calculus. Sometimes it is painful to watch a task die and sometimes I let it die, knowing it is more painful to actually do it.

Norman,

>>> Mike:

~"I am a Godless Heathen" <<<

Did I say that? Or was that the point of the "~" LOL ;-)

>>> "While I believe that "everything is for the best in this the best of all possible worlds."

I don't know who is turning over faster in their grave: Leibniz or Voltaire. I guess they might agree these two statements is worst of both worlds. <<<

Could be, but then they are not me ;-)

>>> "Contrarian"

Is the only recourse when most people are wrong. But really, I am hardly a contrarian. In fact, I don't think there are more than a few posters other than myself who have advocated a measured and thoughtful use of AFx, before suggesting hacks and tweaks contrary to its rules. <<<

Probably true. In my case, "contrarian" refers to a basic personalty orientation.

>>> Now in seriousness: <<<

You were not serious? ;-)

>>> "My intuition might inform me of what I should be doing, but it does not motivate me to do it. My intuition mainly guides my selection of goals, not so much my selection of specific actions at specific times in specific ways."

But how do you experience "intuition", I am not really interested in theories about it, but how one experiences it and cultivates in concrete terms. <<<

I'm not sure how to answer that. Intuition is just that, a sense of what is before you have any specific, identifiable reason to think that is what is. IOW, a gut feel; a hunch.

>>> What does motivate you? <<<

I'm not sure that there is any general motivation. I have specific things that motivate me. But as I used the term in context, I have to have some specific REASON to do something. A hunch will not move me.

>>> Personally, I find motivation to be a word almost empty of meaning in terms of "creating" or "increasing it". It seems often to simply be an ad hoc tautology. "He is doing the dishes, he must have been motivated to do it, let's make a story up about why." <<<

Yeah, I see what you mean. But look at it from an operational point of view. You see something on a list that you wrote down because you feel you SHOULD do it. Now do you feel "motivated" to do it now? I.E. MOVED to do it? If so, then you are "motivated", if not, then not. So what is it about tasks in general or specifically that causes that FEELING that you WANT to do it such that you get up and DO it. The answer to that is not a story, it is an attempt to discover why you do what you do. I mean, unless you think that everything is totally arbitrary and outside of your control. All of the dozens of feet of bookshelf space devoted to books on procrastination and how to manage it assume that you CAN modify your behavior such that you will DO things ... either by changing how you FEEL about things (i.e. motivation) or by simply using tricks to get you started and then perhaps FEELING that you want to continue. That you are on a mail list discussing ways to get things done implies that you believe you can alter the result by altering your actions.

>>> Most things come down to gross and fine motor movements. <<<

Except, perhaps, those things that are not motor movements at all. IOW, if I don't want to get up and mow the lawn, there is not going to be much going on ... motor movement wise ;-)

>>> I can usually orchestrate these movements in order to accomplish tasks. <<<

See, "orchestrating movements" seems as vague and undefined as "motivation".

>>> Motivation really does not come into the equation for me. Will causes and conditions alter my choices in what I do? Of course, but I am not sure they are motivators. And certainly most human behavior would be difficult to describe in terms of motivation, <<<

I'm thinking of those guys who paint themselves and stand, half naked in the dead of winter, screaming for one bunch of guys to get more points than another bunch of guys. I describe that behavior as "motivated" ... crazy ... but motivated.

>>> I cannot imagine the project required to make transparent the myriad of factors bearing down upon a single moment of one's life. <<<

I get what you are saying, but I see a difference between understanding what motivates you vs. a complete description of all factors in your life. For example: if you see a nicely built gal walking by in a sexy outfit, you might find yourself "motivated" to say: "Hey, baby, what's your sign?" ROTF ;-) Knowing that, I know that you are motivated. You might be able to say some things about how she looks that cause this motivation ... or not. But regardless, you CAN say that when you saw her you felt some impulse to act in some way. And I think that if you had on your list: "Strike up a conversation with a woman today" you would not be motivated in the same way as if you saw her walking down the street. See what I mean? There is knowing that there are causes and the understanding the causes. I was able to tell you that I am NOT motivated by the FEELING that something should be done. I know that much empericaly. As to what DOES motivate me ... that is a whole 'nother story.

>>> Interestingly, you are an atheist and yet you believe in something like the "unconscious". <<<

Well, first of all, I believe in the SUBconscious as an operational part of the human mind. The UNconscious is just what happens when you get hit in the head with a shovel. During that period there is arguably not much "mind" going on. However, I don't need to accept a fanciful story about a guy in the sky with a long white beard in order to understand something about what the mind does. I can look at how I operate and get some insight. Everytime I look down and notice that my shoe laces got tied and I don't remember doing it ... or that I pulled the car out of the driveway and got to the market without thinking much about it ... I KNOW that I was not doing some things consciously. The only alternative is that mental process were taking place outside of, or below, or SUBconscious awareness.

>>> Most of this post is blather and doubt of much use to anyone, but again what I think would be interesting to hear is:

How do you experience "intuition", I am not really interested in theories about it, but how one experiences it and cultivates it concrete terms. <<<

All I have is experience and theory. I can tell you that it I (and I believe everyone else) experiences it as a primitive emotion. It is a psychosomatic response. As to how to cultivate it, I think that one TRIES to cultivate it ... and the act of doing so is what makes it available for more control. For example: if you want to sharpen your intuition about what your wife's mood is (and that is a prime example were reason fails and intuition is necessary ;-) you can do so by asking yourself: "What is she feeling now and how do I know?" Then you test the theory by asking and/or observing. If you do that for a while, you'll start to get better at it. That is what works for me.

>>> Lotsa words. <<<

Hard to communicate without 'em ;-)

How to experience intuition? Don't have a list with a bunch of junk on it. Or a head full of a bunch of junk and competing priorities.

Stop making up stories to yourself on whether things are difficult to do or not or what things mean. Stop telling yourself things are difficult or easy. There is only one way or another of spending your time. There usually is no psychological pain involved, and often no physical pain either.

If intuition is eliminating the process of thought in order to get to an answer from a problem, your mind should be clear and you should not be rushed or overly busy. Although sometimes it does help to put yourself into a manufactured or real rushed state and let your intuition go to work for you. To practically develop intuition with any type of work / project, the only way I know how to do it is to daydream a lot, preferably in a setting removed from the actual environment the work is done in.

Moises,

Wow. Phenomenology, hunter-gathers . . .

And I was worried about bringing up hermeneutics in my post to Mike. But honestly, hermeneutics definitely informs my approach to things. As noted above I am not a reductionist either.

I also don't take too seriously the differences among minds, brains, or souls.

I think you answered my question as poorly formed as they were (my questions), but I am a bit uncertain if you have a certain practice you explicitly use to cultivate "intuition". And phenomenologically speaking maybe, how do you experience "intuition".

Mel,

Your post is excellent and I remember the original. It made quite an impression. Your posts here are always helpful. The similarities in our approaches I'll detail once I get through this mishegas of responding to the replies amidst a day in which is intruding entirely too much upon my life.

Avrum:

"I'm a pseudo-practicing, agnostic Jew who leads towards the mystical vs. the rational. However my interest in DWM has more to do with informal mindfulness practice than Jewish law/ritual/belief. All in all, I find all of Mark's systems - when I USE them - help me cultivate an atmosphere of mindfulness."

I figured you were one of the Chosen. I have an uncanny ability to pick out a person's religion / ethnicity based on a name tied closely to said religion / ethnicity.

"I'm a pseudo-practicing, agnostic Jew who leads towards the mystical vs. the rational. "

Who isn't anymore? Part of my family is of Austro-Hungarian Jewish descent. Everyone is pretty much agnostic.

"Mindfulness"

This I could write a lot about. What does it mean? It is a buzzword usually from the East, where frankly in most of important, older texts in Buddhism, it just does not make a big splash. But from what I understand of how it is typically used, I can understand how it might help foster "intuition".

But I would think something else must be at play than something like "being non-attachedly attentive to the current moment" in order to discern what task to take up next.

Seraphim,

I also figured you where Eastern Orthodox or a new ager (who else would name themselves after a class of celestial beings?). I've been doing a lot of study of Orthodoxy and have been reading some Seraphim Rose (held by some as a Saint). A fascinating man.

But I would guess that your namesake is St. Seraphim of Sarov?

Personally, I find Orthodoxy to be incredibly compelling. I can easily see AFx fitting into the rigorous spiritual practice of Orthodoxy. I think it an incredible misfortune that so much of what Eastern Christianity has held dear to itself only echoes in the West. Seeing the Archbishop of Canterbury recently deliver the Schmemann Lecture at St. Vladimir's Seminary ( “Theology and the Contemplative Calling: The Image of Humanity in the Philokalia.”), gives me great hope about the West seriously engaging the East.

As a matter of confession, I have been earnestly discerning whether to be become part of the Church.

Any advice or suggestions concerning discernment, I am all eyes.

Question for Norman: On top you wrote : "Most things come down to gross and fine motor movements. I can usually orchestrate these movements in order to accomplish tasks. "

And then later " I am not a reductionist either."

Maybe I misunderstood-- didn't you just reduce motivation to gross and fine motor movements? Or do you think there is some phenomenological property that is necessary to define "intuition."

FWIW I am a reductionist. We do things we like, we don't do things we don't like. When I use my "intuition" I am saying to myself, that I would like doing this now, because it will give me pleasure (either immediate or deferred) or it will give me less pain than if I did not do it (again either immediate pain or deferred).

If there is an objective good out there, than either my notion of pleasure/pain corresponds correctly with it and my intuition is sound. If it does not, then I am making the wrong choices in life.

If there is no objective good out there, than either my notion of pleasure/pain corresponds with my overall goals and subjective world view and my intuition is sound. If it does not, then I am making the wrong choices in life.

Either way, you improve your intuition through either rational means (study the "good" or find the best way to achieve your goals) or irrationally by using psychological means (like setting an arbitrary 30 day deadline for tasks that don't really have one and see if it prompts you to get moving on said task or not.

I really don't think intuition is more complicated than that.

veghead:

~"Hedonic Calculus"

See all references above to phenomenology and hermeneutics and transparency.

I truly doubt you engage in much of a calculus when making your decisions throughout the day. Perhaps in some "larger" decisions, but I doubt that "intuition" is anything like an explicit calculus. If you claim it is implicit, then well that is the end of meaningful discourse.

What does "intuition" feel like?

veghead,

My first response was not directly to your response to me. Work is calling and you bring up some interesting questions. Btw, I knew you were a reductionist. Are you Anglo or American?

To answer the title of the thread directly:

I believe intuition is defined as something like the capacity to evaluate something instantaneously, without rational thought. In the context of AutoFocus, the question is whether I should work on task A or task B. A big part of that decision is how effectively you believe you will be able to work on said task, at this moment. Repeated exposure through the AF process can get your thinking going such that over time you become more ready and _able_ to work effectively.

The assumption behind this process is that your split-second judgment is pretty good, but more than that it's quick. Even more, the decision you make tends to align with your feelings. Rather than slave at a chore you are *supposed* to do, internally rebelling because you really don't want to, you choose a task you want to do, your whole being supports the decision, and thereby you are more effective.

"Intuition" probably feels different for everyone. For me, it's the "click" or "light bulb" when I come across the answer that best fits the question I'm asking myself. So, of course, the answer will vary with the question. I could ask what I should do, could do, want to do, must do or suffer consequences, or what haven't I done lately.

WRT the original question about worldview: Mostly it works a filter for input--things that "match up with" or further my worldview are more likely to get entered into the system. It also changes the parameters for "standing out", by changing what I value most strongly.

I am more likely to think to myself, "What should be entered into my system because I am Catholic" than "What items should I work on because I am Catholic", but sometimes things jump out at me because they strengthen my Catholic identity (ie, right now I read the Bible because I know I should and I want to develop that habit, not because it's my favorite book. From previous experience, that balance will change it becomes a habit).

Since we have now entered the realm of analyzing WHAT intuition is ...

Firstly, and obviously I think, it is a subconscious process. IOW, it feels as though it is not something you DO consciously but something that is done TO YOU. Though it is not, really. It actually IS something you DO, but subconsciously.

Secondly, it is the integration of your values, goals, emotions, learning and experience ... that is what all subconscious processes are. So to train it one must work on those components.

Thirdly, given the above, to hone intuition in any area one should do a variety of things:

- Study (or work on the problem)
- Clear one's mind for a while
- Do something entirely different
- Wait

Beyond that, it helps to DEMAND of yourself that you produce an intuitive response and then check how close you were. The process of demanding then checking "educates" the subconscious processes so that they improve. We tend to remember the rare times that we had an intuition that was borne out, but forget all of those that were duds. That is one reason gamblers never learn.

As to exactly what it feels like ... there have been a number of people who wrote about their experience of the creative process ... there are even entire books devoted to it. It seems as though, beyond the steps above, each person experiences it a bit differently. Some as dreams. Some as "flashes". Some as a compulsion.

You could read the writings of the mystics for more, but then who knows what they are writing about as it is not testable in any way. Reading the work of a physicist makes more sense as the intuition can be evaluated for accuracy.

FWIW, I think your quest (I'm mind reading here) is a good idea. Intuition is valuable and can be trained.

Hi Norman,

I am an American, New Yorker to be precise.

Speaking of precision, I clearly was not before. I did not mean to say that I consciously do the calculus during the day. Like Mike says above, it is a subconscious process. But make no mistake, an item stands out if and only if you believe at that moment you will get pleasure from doing it, either now or in the future, or you will receive less pain, either now or in the future.

And the more aware you are of your "values, goals, emotions, learning and experience" as Mike puts it, the odds of you making the maximal choice from your list of options is better. In addition you can game the system by have expiration dates or ruiles for working the list or what have you.

In the end though , intuition is nothing more than a knee-jerk pleasure/pain reaction.

To build on what Alan is saying, intuition is something you can hone and develop by deeply engaging with something.

A sailor at sea develops an intuition for what weather changes might be signaled by small changes in temperature or wind.

A well driller develops an intuition for the kind of rock he's boring through, based on the sound of his equipment.

A commodity trader develops an intuition for integrating the meaning of price movements, volume variations, volatility, news, and so on, and getting a "feel" for what to expect in the markets.

The basic theme is that when people have been engaged with a subject deeply and over a long period of time, they learn to take in more and more information at a glance and process it effectively. The result is not always 100% correct, but still, someone who has developed an intuition in something like this, is going to see a lot more, a lot more deeply, and a lot more quickly, than a newbie in the field.

In learning a written language, first you learn the alphabet, and it might take a while to get all the new letters down, especially when dealing with a non-Roman alphabet. You can learn some simple words using the simplest letters. Eventually you learn more and more, till you get to the point where you don't even notice the individual letters so much, nad yuo aer sitll albe to raed pharses lkie tihs wihtuot too mcuh torulbe. You start to take in whole phrases and sentences rather than letters and words. I think intuition is like that. You area able to take in and process so much at once, you aren't even sure yourself how you do it. You just "feel" it; you "just know".

I think Mark's TM systems have all been less about mechanics and more about helping you develop and act upon that intuition in regard to one's own work, whatever that work might be. I know that's been the effect for me, with GED and DIT and then AF and DWM. In addition, these systems have been progressively better at integrating the principles of developing a good intuition for ones work, together with tight mechanics for handling the details. I have a MUCH stronger intuition for my work now, than I did, say, 2 years ago -- not just my "work" work, but also my "personal" work.

Norman -- I'd love to comment more on Father Seraphim Rose and Eastern Orthodoxy but should probably do so off-list. I know Mark is very sympathetic to Eastern Orthodoxy but still this forum is all about time management. I may write a bit on this thread a little later, but if you'd like to discuss in more detail please feel free to email me, at the address in the text file located at http://files.me.com/talanton/2e0rfl which will be removed after 48 hrs.

As a Catholic, I subscribe to what the Catholic Church says, which is that each Christian is called to share in the three offices held and exemplified by Jesus Christ.

"[T]he faithful, who by Baptism are incorporated into Christ and integrated into the People of God, are made sharers in their particular way in the PRIESTLY, PROPHETIC, and KINGLY office of Christ, and have their own part to play in the mission of the whole Christian people in the Church and in the World." Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC), paragraph 897

1) The Kingly Office: we are called to manage and govern over the gifts given to us by the Lord, so that these gifts may be used for the good of the Church and of the whole world. As reward, when we are shown to be faithful over little, we will be placed over much (Matthew 25:21), for we are made to inherit the kingdom promised to us (Matthew 25:35).

2) The Prophetic Office: we are called to proclaim the Good News of Christ to the world "by word and the testimony of life" (CCC 905). "Preach the Gospel at all times. Use words if necessary." --- St Francis of Assisi (supposedly ^____^).

3) The Priestly Office: we are called to sanctify our lives by offering all that we have, all that we do, all that we are, all that happens to us for the greater glory and pleasure of God, so that by our lives we complete what is lacking in Jesus' suffering for the sake of the Church and the whole world (Colossians 1:24).

How all of this affects my use of Mr Forster's ideas? I am happy to have found this website because of all the time management systems I encountered and used, DWM has been the easiest and most effective way to concretely fulfill these offices. And at the same time, the Three Offices affect my use of DWM in these ways:

1) My awareness of my Kingly Office and Prophetic Offices makes me choose the most loving activities; that is, it makes me choose those activities that bring the most good to more people.

2) My awareness of my Priestly Office makes me try the harder activities first; if I suffer more during my activities, then I can offer what is harder to give to the Lord, and thus the more precious, and at the same time increase my hope in Christ. (But let me tell you all: this is easier said than done. That's why I said "try" ^____^.)

3) Because of how DWM works, I can now focus on what I am doing NOW instead of worrying about oh so many other things. What I have to worry later is in the list. As Jesus said: "Therefore do not be anxious about tomorrow, for tomorrow will be anxious for itself. Let the day's own trouble be sufficient for the day." (Matthew 6:34)

Mark,

Is it http://terraaliena.squarespace.com/ perhaps?

SO glad you pointed us to this, very interested in taking a look. Include me with Jessica and nuntym on the Barque of Peter.

--Joseph

As well as a source of insights and realizations intuition may also be a source of resistance, perhaps to delay things, or encourage us to take other possibilities. If the will is used aggressively against resistance we can lose inner peace. If the will is used in conjunction with the heart we can be aware of what to do next that bring our highest good. The will can be used to direct focus or to attack ourselves.

@Mark. No. Too narrow. Too Western. Simplistic.