Discussion Forum > handling "someday/maybe" or incubation lists
Though I haven't tried Superfocus-3 yet, I think that you should follow your own idea about the hybrid solution (paper for action lists, digital for someday/maybe). This seems the most promising approach to me.
Btw, I used the gtd_workflow_advanced.pdf so often and saw your name at he bottom of the page, it's time to say: Thank you, Scott.
Btw, I used the gtd_workflow_advanced.pdf so often and saw your name at he bottom of the page, it's time to say: Thank you, Scott.
March 7, 2011 at 17:57 |
Rainer
Rainer
Yeah I used that diagram too, for about a month of trying again to get GTD working. My aim was to make GTD completely systematic. After a month, I discovered AutoFocus which had the systematic aspect I sought only much easier.
Scott: Where was your S/M list for GTD? Keep it as was.
1) Add "Review Someday/Maybe" to SF.
2) Empty Head is still good. First write stuff into SF. Feel free to delete things any time. If instead they get Dismissed, you might yet do them later. Add "Review dismissed" to list. These you either delete or re-add or leave for the next review.
3) I like to organize dismissed stuff into categories. It works for me.
One day I'll write a "Use Superfocus for Getting Things Done Better". SF proper doesn't cover all the territory of GTD, but a few simple additions can make it so.
Scott: Where was your S/M list for GTD? Keep it as was.
1) Add "Review Someday/Maybe" to SF.
2) Empty Head is still good. First write stuff into SF. Feel free to delete things any time. If instead they get Dismissed, you might yet do them later. Add "Review dismissed" to list. These you either delete or re-add or leave for the next review.
3) I like to organize dismissed stuff into categories. It works for me.
One day I'll write a "Use Superfocus for Getting Things Done Better". SF proper doesn't cover all the territory of GTD, but a few simple additions can make it so.
March 7, 2011 at 19:10 |
Alan Baljeu
Alan Baljeu
How about a someday/maybe notebook. Keeps it all in one place and is very easy to review.
Gerry
Gerry
March 7, 2011 at 21:25 |
Gerry
Gerry
I have the SF list with me all the time, so I can always put a new idea in there when it occurs. One of the ways to action it would be to put it in a calendar or someday maybe list when convenient.
For example, I have had a mental block over my wedding anniversary - 26th or 29th May - for many years. Reading Nick Hornby's Fever Pitch, he mentions the night that Arsenal won the double (or was it the triple). Which was also the night we lost our best man in the middle of the reception. So "add 26 May 1989 to calendar" goes to SF list.
Problem solved.
For example, I have had a mental block over my wedding anniversary - 26th or 29th May - for many years. Reading Nick Hornby's Fever Pitch, he mentions the night that Arsenal won the double (or was it the triple). Which was also the night we lost our best man in the middle of the reception. So "add 26 May 1989 to calendar" goes to SF list.
Problem solved.
March 7, 2011 at 22:07 |
Will
Will
Scott, I'll be looking for your workflow pdf (past GTD and future SF). I have been wildly successful in getting things done with SF for the past few weeks. I'm thinking it'll be my 'do' step in a larger GTD system. Like you, I like to have my 'bigger' system with me and don't want big lists or to recopy and recopy. So I'm thinking that I'll let OmniFocus do what it's always done best for me...be my project organization and reference tool and home for lists along the lines of Someday/Maybe.
When I started SF I looked over what I had in OF and made note of anything that really needed to be moved to the calendar. When I dismiss items in SF I've been adding them to a project in OF 'Dismissed from SF'. I've been glancing at them all when I add another and so far nothing has moved back to SF. I looked over a couple projects in OF in more detail and added a few things to SF. I'll more formally review my Dismissed from SF project and larger OF system in a couple weeks.
I haven't had my Someday/Maybe within OF because it was always more interesting to look things over on that or find things to add to it than to use OF to help me determine what to do. But now that it's acting as a reference, I think I'll move that type stuff into there because I have it for my iphone, ipad, and mac. It syncs well. If I didn't already own it, I'd definitely admit that it's way overkill for what I'll be using it for. But since I've got it, it'll fill the bill just fine.
When I started SF I looked over what I had in OF and made note of anything that really needed to be moved to the calendar. When I dismiss items in SF I've been adding them to a project in OF 'Dismissed from SF'. I've been glancing at them all when I add another and so far nothing has moved back to SF. I looked over a couple projects in OF in more detail and added a few things to SF. I'll more formally review my Dismissed from SF project and larger OF system in a couple weeks.
I haven't had my Someday/Maybe within OF because it was always more interesting to look things over on that or find things to add to it than to use OF to help me determine what to do. But now that it's acting as a reference, I think I'll move that type stuff into there because I have it for my iphone, ipad, and mac. It syncs well. If I didn't already own it, I'd definitely admit that it's way overkill for what I'll be using it for. But since I've got it, it'll fill the bill just fine.
March 8, 2011 at 1:44 |
malisa
malisa
I too think that paper for SF and electronic for SM is a perfect fit.
One is acted upon and the other is more consulted then written in.
GTD, great for organization and figuring out what's next.
Strives for efficiency but the overhead burns what you gained.
In the end, no help in the doing part...
AF family, built for effectiveness and it works period.
One is acted upon and the other is more consulted then written in.
GTD, great for organization and figuring out what's next.
Strives for efficiency but the overhead burns what you gained.
In the end, no help in the doing part...
AF family, built for effectiveness and it works period.
March 8, 2011 at 7:08 |
Erik
Erik
Scott, where do you put your "dimissed items" list? Could you clarify why you don't want to merge this list with your S/M list ? Seems to me like most dismissed items are, in fact, S/M items, and the S/M list would be the best place to park them, where there could be held for regular review (until action or permanent deletion).
Also, paper notebook for SF and electronic for SM was what I was thinking about too, not only for the reasons that malisa and erik mentionned, but also because it's then much easyer to group SM (and dismissed) items by categories and sort them somehow hierarchically.
You could also keep SM/dismissed electronic but only print the groups that you want to carry with you at all times just in case you find yourself in a library/store where they could become relevant (books to read, CDs to get, DVDs to get, E-gadgets to buy...). Fold the page(s) and put it in your SF notebook and you're set? (There is no point carrying all your pipe dreams, places you want to visit, music instruments, danses & langages you want to learn, people you want to meet etc with you.)
I will try this since I want to keep electronic just for home (I'm a no-smartphone kind of guy)
Also, what do you guys think about using the back of the notebook as an indiscriminate "ubiquitous capture" place, where to put down any idea that pops up, some of them to be later transferred to the SM list, some others to be directly transferred to the SF list?
Do you put every "actionable" idea directly onto the SF list, and let the dismissal process decide if they will be acted on or not (and then transferred to "dismissed" or "S/M", to be acted on later or never)?
Or do you "pre-filter", and put the ones more or less likely to get acted on "soon" in the SF list, and the more optional, "distant" ones to a "SM" list, or whatever other option?
Also, paper notebook for SF and electronic for SM was what I was thinking about too, not only for the reasons that malisa and erik mentionned, but also because it's then much easyer to group SM (and dismissed) items by categories and sort them somehow hierarchically.
You could also keep SM/dismissed electronic but only print the groups that you want to carry with you at all times just in case you find yourself in a library/store where they could become relevant (books to read, CDs to get, DVDs to get, E-gadgets to buy...). Fold the page(s) and put it in your SF notebook and you're set? (There is no point carrying all your pipe dreams, places you want to visit, music instruments, danses & langages you want to learn, people you want to meet etc with you.)
I will try this since I want to keep electronic just for home (I'm a no-smartphone kind of guy)
Also, what do you guys think about using the back of the notebook as an indiscriminate "ubiquitous capture" place, where to put down any idea that pops up, some of them to be later transferred to the SM list, some others to be directly transferred to the SF list?
Do you put every "actionable" idea directly onto the SF list, and let the dismissal process decide if they will be acted on or not (and then transferred to "dismissed" or "S/M", to be acted on later or never)?
Or do you "pre-filter", and put the ones more or less likely to get acted on "soon" in the SF list, and the more optional, "distant" ones to a "SM" list, or whatever other option?
March 8, 2011 at 15:43 |
Daouda
Daouda
Small clarification : in my idea of using the back of the notebook as a "ubiquitous capture" tool, I would of course still write directly in the SF list the stuff that i KNOW i want/have to do, without transitioning in the back of the notebook. That place would be for stuff that i know will be transfered to my electronic SM list when possible, and for random stuff that popped in my mind but Im just not really sure about yet (might be copied onto the SF list, transferred onto the SM list, or deleted as a crazy idea). Other things might be "reference" type of stuff, to be transferred onto my digital PIM asap.
March 8, 2011 at 16:00 |
Daouda
Daouda
I am somewhat confused about the comments people always make about the extreme overhead of GTD. Are you focusing on the weekly reviews? Maintaining context lists? I never experienced such an overwhelming overhead as some people keep referring to here. Weekly reviews were ALWAYS invaluable as I found going through my calendar and projects carefully helped me plan things accordingly.
So what is the immense overhead that people always say is so bad about GTD? I am just curious...
-David
So what is the immense overhead that people always say is so bad about GTD? I am just curious...
-David
March 8, 2011 at 16:30 |
David Drake
David Drake
David, probably what you just mentionned (maintaining context lists, and weekly review of a gazillion lists), but also the mental energy spent EACH TIME you have to make a decision about where (which list) to put a specific item, what context should be assigned to it etc... This can generate a lot of stress for some people, which leads to build-up of resistance to the system, etc...
Alan, its good that you started a new thread that pretty much summarizes and clarifies my questions, but you havent answered yourself... Maybe you could lead the way and tell us in that new thread what YOU put in the SF list, and how and why you use a SM and/or dismissed list along with it ? I would be very much interested to know about this. Thanks.
Alan, its good that you started a new thread that pretty much summarizes and clarifies my questions, but you havent answered yourself... Maybe you could lead the way and tell us in that new thread what YOU put in the SF list, and how and why you use a SM and/or dismissed list along with it ? I would be very much interested to know about this. Thanks.
March 8, 2011 at 16:55 |
Daouda
Daouda
The whole startup was a big hassle. Get everything in a pile. Process it all. Organize it all. That took forever, I was never happy with the results of Organizing, and little got done. Then I get lazy and fail to Collect-Process-Organize for a bit. Then I have to go through the above process again.
Weekly review I could never get happening weekly. I'm not that disciplined.
I can do AF: 1. write. 2. scan. 3. do. Small easy steps.
Weekly review I could never get happening weekly. I'm not that disciplined.
I can do AF: 1. write. 2. scan. 3. do. Small easy steps.
March 8, 2011 at 16:59 |
Alan Baljeu
Alan Baljeu
David,
For me the overhead came from;
-Rewriting, capturing one place and then transferring to a list
-contexts, @ phone, @ computer etc. I know I need a phone to make a call and a computer to research something on the web. Since I work in an office, I pretty much have all of my tools all day long so it was not needed for me.
-Sheer volume of lists lead to lots of hunting time.
-Next actions, I felt writing NAs was also duplication.
I also just generally felt I had to spend a lot of time thinking about the system versus doing my work. I am more of a big picture flow oriented person and GTD felt too technical for me. As I have discussed I just need to feel like I am not forgetting thing and can find things when I need them. After that I just want to get working and not think too much about systems.
Gerry
For me the overhead came from;
-Rewriting, capturing one place and then transferring to a list
-contexts, @ phone, @ computer etc. I know I need a phone to make a call and a computer to research something on the web. Since I work in an office, I pretty much have all of my tools all day long so it was not needed for me.
-Sheer volume of lists lead to lots of hunting time.
-Next actions, I felt writing NAs was also duplication.
I also just generally felt I had to spend a lot of time thinking about the system versus doing my work. I am more of a big picture flow oriented person and GTD felt too technical for me. As I have discussed I just need to feel like I am not forgetting thing and can find things when I need them. After that I just want to get working and not think too much about systems.
Gerry
March 8, 2011 at 17:06 |
Gerry
Gerry
Index cards?
March 8, 2011 at 17:19 |
smileypete
smileypete
David: concerning the overhead in GTD. I am a very disciplined individual so I always did the weekly reviews and looked at contexts regularly. I also had an inbox zero policy that I maintained assiduously. Then 2 big problems cropped up.
1- I had a number of disjointed lists all filled with stuff I could do right now. So there is no excuse for not doing them except your tired. All great but then with all the lists, there was always that nagging feeling that there was something more important on another list... Plus I felt so overwhelmed by all the stuff left to do. I'll start a these at a point at how people view time and the fact that I'm from a Latin background. We "tend" to prefer seeing things in retrospect that have been done, not what's left to do.
2- I would start my weekly review and feel utmost frustration at the fact of piling stuff on my lists when I actually have time to do a lot of the things that where on them there and then. Sacrificing the doing for the clarifying was killing me and acerbating the feeling of overwhelm from point one...
1- I had a number of disjointed lists all filled with stuff I could do right now. So there is no excuse for not doing them except your tired. All great but then with all the lists, there was always that nagging feeling that there was something more important on another list... Plus I felt so overwhelmed by all the stuff left to do. I'll start a these at a point at how people view time and the fact that I'm from a Latin background. We "tend" to prefer seeing things in retrospect that have been done, not what's left to do.
2- I would start my weekly review and feel utmost frustration at the fact of piling stuff on my lists when I actually have time to do a lot of the things that where on them there and then. Sacrificing the doing for the clarifying was killing me and acerbating the feeling of overwhelm from point one...
March 8, 2011 at 23:58 |
Erik
Erik
Rainer,
< tw, I used the gtd_workflow_advanced.pdf so often and saw your name at he bottom of the page, it's time to say: Thank you, Scott. >
You're welcome. It's been really significant for me seeing the spread of the tool I just made for myself. It's helped me better define the difference between my Job and my Work. One pays the bills; the other feeds my soul.
Scott
< tw, I used the gtd_workflow_advanced.pdf so often and saw your name at he bottom of the page, it's time to say: Thank you, Scott. >
You're welcome. It's been really significant for me seeing the spread of the tool I just made for myself. It's helped me better define the difference between my Job and my Work. One pays the bills; the other feeds my soul.
Scott
March 9, 2011 at 5:00 |
Scott M
Scott M
Malisa,
< When I dismiss items in SF I've been adding them to a project in OF 'Dismissed from SF'. I've been glancing at them all when I add another and so far nothing has moved back to SF. >
Brilliant idea! This can help me avoid having a huge section of dismissed pages, plus I can then put them into categories like Alan does as well. I suspect I will have several pages of dismissed in my regular notebook, but then transfer them over as they age.
I too am interested to see how many return to the lists, and how many are simply parked forever, having "been sifted and found wanting", as Mark would say.
Scott
< When I dismiss items in SF I've been adding them to a project in OF 'Dismissed from SF'. I've been glancing at them all when I add another and so far nothing has moved back to SF. >
Brilliant idea! This can help me avoid having a huge section of dismissed pages, plus I can then put them into categories like Alan does as well. I suspect I will have several pages of dismissed in my regular notebook, but then transfer them over as they age.
I too am interested to see how many return to the lists, and how many are simply parked forever, having "been sifted and found wanting", as Mark would say.
Scott
March 9, 2011 at 5:06 |
Scott M
Scott M
Rainer, Alan, Gerry, Erik, Daouda
You all suggest either keeping my Someday/Maybe lists were they are, or in a digital tool, or a separate notebook. The takeaway for me is that we are in agreement that they might be best handled outside of my SF3 lists. I think the dismissed pages can handle a certain volume of recently dismissed items, but after a point the advantages of keeping a lean system, along with grouping the Someday/Maybes into simple categories like Restaurants to Try, wins out.
I do like Daouda's idea to just carry the S/M lists I'm most likely to reference, like Movies to Rent, and store the ones like Places to See.
Thank you all so very much for your insight and ideas.
Scott
You all suggest either keeping my Someday/Maybe lists were they are, or in a digital tool, or a separate notebook. The takeaway for me is that we are in agreement that they might be best handled outside of my SF3 lists. I think the dismissed pages can handle a certain volume of recently dismissed items, but after a point the advantages of keeping a lean system, along with grouping the Someday/Maybes into simple categories like Restaurants to Try, wins out.
I do like Daouda's idea to just carry the S/M lists I'm most likely to reference, like Movies to Rent, and store the ones like Places to See.
Thank you all so very much for your insight and ideas.
Scott
March 9, 2011 at 5:19 |
Scott M
Scott M
1) Volume -- I have a lot of S/M items. The list is several times as long as my GTD actions lists were. Lots of sparkly objects catch my eye.
2) Empty head -- I find it much better to write down the book I might want to read, restaurant I might want to try, etc. and empty my head rather than try to mentally hold on to it or allow it to disappear off my list of future options.
3) Out of the way, but accessible in the moment -- this is the toughest one. In GTD I kept a simple hierarchical someday/maybe list of things to try or buy - restaurants, movies, music, travel, things under $100, things over $100, gifts by person, books, things to build, etc. They were out of the way and separate from my action lists, but easy to add to and also easily accessible when I was standing in a bookstore wondering what had previously caught my eye. The challenge is that it might take me a year to visit that new restaurant or rent that new movie, but I don't want to lose the idea in the meantime, or be tripping over it among the more pressing matters I'm managing.
Using Superfocus, I'm not sure where to park these things. Here's the tools that come to mind:
- "dismissed items" seems like it will get too clogged with all my stuff, and hard to group (like books to read)
- "tickler folders" are good for single items (I use index cards), but not this volume. Plus they are inaccessible in-between tickle dates.
- "calendar" can't handle the volume
- "someday/maybe list" in the back of the notebook? will have to recopy after the notebook fills up, but that might be a good weed-out time
- "digital someday/maybe list" on iPhone or similar (like something that syncs with SimpleNote or Evernote)
I am thinking the hybrid solution (paper for action lists, digital for someday/maybe) might be the best approach. Transferring back and forth would require a conscious decision to make something actionable, or to park it for now. That would keep things cleaner, I think.
Scott
P.S. I've found Superfocus to be a great alternative to GTD for actually getting things done, and not just managing lists. I was a power GTD-er for years, and still follow many of the key principles (search "advanced workflow diagram" to see the summary diagram I made for myself and posted for the benefit of all - it unexpectedly took off, and I'm so pleased). I just find the Superfocus system so much simpler and yet more effective. I'm hoping to make a similar diagram for Superfocus once the dust settles a bit around the rules and variations.