Discussion Forum > What to expect initially from "Dreams"
Mark - without copy/paste your recent replies, thank you for all your help and advice.
May 30, 2011 at 16:53 |
avrum
avrum
Mark:
<<it’s the mind’s unconscious processing that should be regarded as the dominant way of thinking>>
Were there any books or resource material that led to your insights about the unconcious and PULL. You mentioned Nathaniel Branden's work. Anything else?
<<it’s the mind’s unconscious processing that should be regarded as the dominant way of thinking>>
Were there any books or resource material that led to your insights about the unconcious and PULL. You mentioned Nathaniel Branden's work. Anything else?
May 31, 2011 at 3:55 |
avrum
avrum
avrum:
There were lots actually, but I'm not sure I can remember them all at the distance of 10 years!
If you read through "Dreams" you will find references to and quotes from several books. These are all worth reading though there may be more up-to-date books published since. I'm reading David Eagleman's "Incognito" at the moment which confirms a lot of what I said.
http://www.eagleman.com/incognito
Another book which was very influential in my thinking was Robert Fritz's "The Path of Least Resistance". http://www.amazon.co.uk/Path-Least-Resistance-Robert-Fritz/dp/0449903370
There were lots actually, but I'm not sure I can remember them all at the distance of 10 years!
If you read through "Dreams" you will find references to and quotes from several books. These are all worth reading though there may be more up-to-date books published since. I'm reading David Eagleman's "Incognito" at the moment which confirms a lot of what I said.
http://www.eagleman.com/incognito
Another book which was very influential in my thinking was Robert Fritz's "The Path of Least Resistance". http://www.amazon.co.uk/Path-Least-Resistance-Robert-Fritz/dp/0449903370
May 31, 2011 at 9:55 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
Some quotes from fritz's book:
Structural tension exists when we see the discrepancy between what we want to create versus our current situation now. This discrepancy creates an energy that you can use to your benefit when you seek resolution to go toward what it is you want in your life. As the tension strives for resolution (much like a stretched rubber band) you as a creator can use that to propel you forward. "Once you establish structural tension, your natural tendency will be to generate actions in order to resolve the tension". "All of the actions you take to create your vision will help you move toward the result you want, including the ones that are not directly successful." (quotes from page 118)
Creating
"...the belief that your circumstances are the driving force in your life, therefore you will either react or respond to it. Unless you can operate in the creative process, you will continue to go back and forth in the reactive-responsive mode and never fully experience what you truly want in your life."
Probelm solving
"Problem solving involves actions that has something go away (the problem)."
"Once a tension exists, the path of least resistance leads toward resolution." (quote from page 77)
page 90, "If you try to change your behavior without first changing the underlying structure causing that behavior, you will not succeed. This is because structure determines behavior, not the other way around."
from http://www.squidoo.com/whatuwant
Structural tension exists when we see the discrepancy between what we want to create versus our current situation now. This discrepancy creates an energy that you can use to your benefit when you seek resolution to go toward what it is you want in your life. As the tension strives for resolution (much like a stretched rubber band) you as a creator can use that to propel you forward. "Once you establish structural tension, your natural tendency will be to generate actions in order to resolve the tension". "All of the actions you take to create your vision will help you move toward the result you want, including the ones that are not directly successful." (quotes from page 118)
Creating
"...the belief that your circumstances are the driving force in your life, therefore you will either react or respond to it. Unless you can operate in the creative process, you will continue to go back and forth in the reactive-responsive mode and never fully experience what you truly want in your life."
Probelm solving
"Problem solving involves actions that has something go away (the problem)."
"Once a tension exists, the path of least resistance leads toward resolution." (quote from page 77)
page 90, "If you try to change your behavior without first changing the underlying structure causing that behavior, you will not succeed. This is because structure determines behavior, not the other way around."
from http://www.squidoo.com/whatuwant
May 31, 2011 at 18:09 |
michael
michael
Some things I've noticed while going through the exercises over the past week or so:
1) I've had great success killing some lingering bad habits by putting them as a line item on the "what's better" list.
2) It has taken several days for some aspects of my goals to suddenly "click into focus". When this happens, they become much clearer, but sometimes aren't even related to what I had originally written down! It's not incremental, it's very sudden.
3) Some longer term goals that have been frustrating me off and on for weeks suddenly seem much calmer.
I've also noticed a lot more elasticity in my thinking -- before I'd think to myself "to solve that problem, I just have to try harder!" without taking a new approach. Now I notice I tend to try different approaches with much greater success.
I'm still using SuperFocus for time management, with no apparent contention, so we'll continue to see how that goes.
The what's better list and some of the dialogging techniques remind me of the work of Michele Weiner-Davis. I'd highly recommend her books as well.
1) I've had great success killing some lingering bad habits by putting them as a line item on the "what's better" list.
2) It has taken several days for some aspects of my goals to suddenly "click into focus". When this happens, they become much clearer, but sometimes aren't even related to what I had originally written down! It's not incremental, it's very sudden.
3) Some longer term goals that have been frustrating me off and on for weeks suddenly seem much calmer.
I've also noticed a lot more elasticity in my thinking -- before I'd think to myself "to solve that problem, I just have to try harder!" without taking a new approach. Now I notice I tend to try different approaches with much greater success.
I'm still using SuperFocus for time management, with no apparent contention, so we'll continue to see how that goes.
The what's better list and some of the dialogging techniques remind me of the work of Michele Weiner-Davis. I'd highly recommend her books as well.
June 1, 2011 at 3:10 |
Ryan Freckleton
Ryan Freckleton
<to solve that problem, I just have to try harder!" >
This is sometimes still my reaction but I posted the Fritz quotes a s a permission to trust pull mode and have greater faith in my unconscious.
This is sometimes still my reaction but I posted the Fritz quotes a s a permission to trust pull mode and have greater faith in my unconscious.
June 1, 2011 at 8:15 |
michael
michael
Ryan:
Thanks for reminding me. Weiner-Davis's book "Change Your Life and Everyone in It" was another big influence on the development of "Dreams".
Thanks for reminding me. Weiner-Davis's book "Change Your Life and Everyone in It" was another big influence on the development of "Dreams".
June 1, 2011 at 8:49 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
An interesting thing has happened in the development of my Future Reality. I felt that I no longer wanted any specific goals in it, but that it should concentrate entirely on the "how" of living my life. So I dropped the bits about health and friendship and was left with this:
"I am living a creative life in which the principles of "Dreams" are fully put into practice. Everything I set my hands to comes to fruition effortlessly. My life is so well-ordered that I am free to do what I want to do and create what I want to create. I feel boundlessly optimistic in a life that is spacious and full of growth and discovery."
This is a good example of how the Future Reality will change as one keeps working on it. And obviously for different people it will change in different ways. Maybe once I've got the principles re-established in my life, the Future Reality will swing back to being more concrete - maybe not. But what is interesting me at the moment is the way it is gradually becoming more and more focused. This process is happening at its own pace. I'm not trying to force it.
"I am living a creative life in which the principles of "Dreams" are fully put into practice. Everything I set my hands to comes to fruition effortlessly. My life is so well-ordered that I am free to do what I want to do and create what I want to create. I feel boundlessly optimistic in a life that is spacious and full of growth and discovery."
This is a good example of how the Future Reality will change as one keeps working on it. And obviously for different people it will change in different ways. Maybe once I've got the principles re-established in my life, the Future Reality will swing back to being more concrete - maybe not. But what is interesting me at the moment is the way it is gradually becoming more and more focused. This process is happening at its own pace. I'm not trying to force it.
June 1, 2011 at 8:58 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
michael:
<< I posted the Fritz quotes a s a permission to trust pull mode and have greater faith in my unconscious. >>
I've got an example of this currently. I have an article to write for my local parish magazine - deadline today. So far I've done nothing but jot down a few notes. I've remained faithful to the Dreams motto: "I'll do it when I feel like doing it and not before". And so far I haven't felt like doing it.
I'm going to continue to trust the Dreams process and I'm not going to force myself to do it. What will happen? Make sure to read the next thrilling episode!
<< I posted the Fritz quotes a s a permission to trust pull mode and have greater faith in my unconscious. >>
I've got an example of this currently. I have an article to write for my local parish magazine - deadline today. So far I've done nothing but jot down a few notes. I've remained faithful to the Dreams motto: "I'll do it when I feel like doing it and not before". And so far I haven't felt like doing it.
I'm going to continue to trust the Dreams process and I'm not going to force myself to do it. What will happen? Make sure to read the next thrilling episode!
June 1, 2011 at 9:05 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
Immediately after writing the above post, I selected and collated the photos for the article (including making a still from a video) and sent them off with a note saying the article would follow. Hopefully the article will follow!
June 1, 2011 at 10:28 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
A related approach to Present Reality might be the Creative Visualisation work of Shakti Gawain, and others - a common "new age" method for directing energy. I suppose the Future Vision replaces the visualised circumstance. both seem to act as a kind of jelly-mould for energy to fllow into.
June 1, 2011 at 13:18 |
michael
michael
<<A related approach to Present Reality might be the Creative Visualisation work of Shakti Gawain>>
Good, bad, schlocky... thoughts?
Good, bad, schlocky... thoughts?
June 1, 2011 at 13:30 |
avrum
avrum
Mark:
<<Hopefully the article will follow! >>
What I'd love to know is... if you did NOT write the article (though I can't imagine this happening), what would you do then?
<<Hopefully the article will follow! >>
What I'd love to know is... if you did NOT write the article (though I can't imagine this happening), what would you do then?
June 1, 2011 at 13:31 |
avrum
avrum
Oh, yes. Shakti Gawain. I think I did read a book of hers about intuition around about the time I was thinking of writing Dreams. But I didn't actually find what she wrote much use. I think I found it too much like wishful thinking and not fact based enough. But it's over ten years ago now, so I could be wrong.
She's very much a New Age figure I think, while I successfully or unsuccessfully have tried to put what's coming from the neuroscientists and others into a format which can be used by the average person.
Mind you, she's made a lot more money at it than I have, so who am I to criticize?
She's very much a New Age figure I think, while I successfully or unsuccessfully have tried to put what's coming from the neuroscientists and others into a format which can be used by the average person.
Mind you, she's made a lot more money at it than I have, so who am I to criticize?
June 1, 2011 at 14:02 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
avrum: visualisation in some form or other is the essence of all these approaches, written or not. There is a long tradition : "where there is no vision the people perish" as mentioned in the Bible. And for good reason. Imagination is the faculty by which we open doors to new possibilities. It is pretty fundamental in my opinion.
June 1, 2011 at 14:02 |
michael
michael
avrum:
<< What I'd love to know is... if you did NOT write the article (though I can't imagine this happening), what would you do then? >>
I agree with you that it's unlikely that I won't write the article on time (the editor has now told me that it's fine as long as she gets it by midnight - what does she do with them at midnight I wonder?), but what I'd be afraid of is losing faith in the Dreams method and jumping into Push mode to get it finished.
<< What I'd love to know is... if you did NOT write the article (though I can't imagine this happening), what would you do then? >>
I agree with you that it's unlikely that I won't write the article on time (the editor has now told me that it's fine as long as she gets it by midnight - what does she do with them at midnight I wonder?), but what I'd be afraid of is losing faith in the Dreams method and jumping into Push mode to get it finished.
June 1, 2011 at 14:10 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
One advantage of Mark's approach is it seems most effective at lowering resistance such as doubt, fear, or a clash with self-image or unconscious beliefs. Thse are often claimed to be causes of failure to manifest dreams in "new age" versions.
June 1, 2011 at 14:19 |
michael
michael
<< What I'd love to know is... if you did NOT write the article (though I can't imagine this happening), what would you do then? >>
One of the best push mode ways to get something done is to make a commitment to another person. In this case, Mark committed to the editor. And now that he has posted his commitment here, he would have to broadcast to countless readers his failure to honor his commitment.
One of the best push mode ways to get something done is to make a commitment to another person. In this case, Mark committed to the editor. And now that he has posted his commitment here, he would have to broadcast to countless readers his failure to honor his commitment.
June 1, 2011 at 16:20 |
moises
moises
<< One of the best push mode ways to get something done is to make a commitment to another person. >>
This would seem to interfere with Mark's goal of following Dream's "pull" mode without switching into "push" mode.
This would seem to interfere with Mark's goal of following Dream's "pull" mode without switching into "push" mode.
June 1, 2011 at 16:53 |
Seraphim
Seraphim
Just started a week ago, with Dreams. Slow start but its picking up by itself now.
I have a tactical question and an incredible example that I just can not explain, but inspired me to write it for others.
first, the example...
I've had a wild and unbelievable experience that I had to look through and rethink a few times to realize that it was in fact a purely subconscious result.
Here's what happened:
I had gone through the first exercises and created a full page "I would like list". Put it away for few days, and was mostly forgotten by then.
Well, what happened after the I would like list was put away for about 3 days, and I was getting started with the next step of beginning a "what's better" list is where something not consciously driven had already occurred. I just didn't realize it yet.
As i was working on the what's better list for the first time,
My 3rd item down on the list was this:
-Office in garage was suggested by wife, and can start thinking about what to do with
Now at this point in time, I had no recollection of anything on the I would like list, so I just kept going with the what better list.
As I was finishing up what I could come up with for my first What's better? list, I looked at the directions in the book of what to do next, and it was the - pick something from the list that stands out as a goal, and further down, was the advice to practice on something that could be done in a day.
So... I started reading through my full page list of would likes, and couldn't find anything that stuck out and could be done in a day, so went through again. This time I went through I found this item about 2/3 down the page:
The item was, as written:
to have the best working environment possible for now (1 month) - ?sound proof room in garage?
I was thinking, wait a minute.... I quickly reread what I wrote on my what's better list that I had completely breezed over:
-Office in garage was suggested by wife, and can start thinking about what to do with
I Couldn't believe it!
When I went back and looked through the list, and went through the prior days events in detail, I realized that in fact, I took no conscious activity to have this become. There was only communication (with my wife) of other not directly related issues, and somehow she came up with the idea that got this would like started. We had discussed a room in the garage months ago, which she wasn't enthusiastic about it, but for a completely different reason. Funny thing, is she is practically never the one who solves problems (that's me), but this time was different in that she had come back at the end of the day we were talking about other problems and in a way that is out of character for her she said this - "I have a solution to your environment problem - I think you should build an office in the garage. Do whatever you need to do to make it happen and I'll support it"
The background behind this item is I added this item (I think) because I have enormous challenges with distractions in home office with 3 young kids and chaos abound, so this is where this came from. Now the "for now (1 month)" part was that I had bigger longer term "I would like" solutions in this area on my list, but felt I wanted to have something more immediate.
So I'm stumped for logic connect the dots reasoning on this except that the subconscious and pull method works and does so in ways that you can not directly explain.
Wild stuff.
Now my tactical question:
I'm not using SF or any other system right now, but need some guidance on a simple approach/tool that I can use along with Dreams as to record ideas/to dos/reminders somewhere. Should I just use my electronic What's better list (single word doc) and free flow list items on there?
A bad 'stuck' cycle occurs (sometimes weeks long) for me when not having 'a way or place' to record things that is reliable for capturing and that I will feel is useful. I then hesitate writing stuff down at all that I know are important to, which leads to the cycle continuing. So I feel pulled to asking and finding a solution to this piece as it seems important to me now as I proceed.
I have a tactical question and an incredible example that I just can not explain, but inspired me to write it for others.
first, the example...
I've had a wild and unbelievable experience that I had to look through and rethink a few times to realize that it was in fact a purely subconscious result.
Here's what happened:
I had gone through the first exercises and created a full page "I would like list". Put it away for few days, and was mostly forgotten by then.
Well, what happened after the I would like list was put away for about 3 days, and I was getting started with the next step of beginning a "what's better" list is where something not consciously driven had already occurred. I just didn't realize it yet.
As i was working on the what's better list for the first time,
My 3rd item down on the list was this:
-Office in garage was suggested by wife, and can start thinking about what to do with
Now at this point in time, I had no recollection of anything on the I would like list, so I just kept going with the what better list.
As I was finishing up what I could come up with for my first What's better? list, I looked at the directions in the book of what to do next, and it was the - pick something from the list that stands out as a goal, and further down, was the advice to practice on something that could be done in a day.
So... I started reading through my full page list of would likes, and couldn't find anything that stuck out and could be done in a day, so went through again. This time I went through I found this item about 2/3 down the page:
The item was, as written:
to have the best working environment possible for now (1 month) - ?sound proof room in garage?
I was thinking, wait a minute.... I quickly reread what I wrote on my what's better list that I had completely breezed over:
-Office in garage was suggested by wife, and can start thinking about what to do with
I Couldn't believe it!
When I went back and looked through the list, and went through the prior days events in detail, I realized that in fact, I took no conscious activity to have this become. There was only communication (with my wife) of other not directly related issues, and somehow she came up with the idea that got this would like started. We had discussed a room in the garage months ago, which she wasn't enthusiastic about it, but for a completely different reason. Funny thing, is she is practically never the one who solves problems (that's me), but this time was different in that she had come back at the end of the day we were talking about other problems and in a way that is out of character for her she said this - "I have a solution to your environment problem - I think you should build an office in the garage. Do whatever you need to do to make it happen and I'll support it"
The background behind this item is I added this item (I think) because I have enormous challenges with distractions in home office with 3 young kids and chaos abound, so this is where this came from. Now the "for now (1 month)" part was that I had bigger longer term "I would like" solutions in this area on my list, but felt I wanted to have something more immediate.
So I'm stumped for logic connect the dots reasoning on this except that the subconscious and pull method works and does so in ways that you can not directly explain.
Wild stuff.
Now my tactical question:
I'm not using SF or any other system right now, but need some guidance on a simple approach/tool that I can use along with Dreams as to record ideas/to dos/reminders somewhere. Should I just use my electronic What's better list (single word doc) and free flow list items on there?
A bad 'stuck' cycle occurs (sometimes weeks long) for me when not having 'a way or place' to record things that is reliable for capturing and that I will feel is useful. I then hesitate writing stuff down at all that I know are important to, which leads to the cycle continuing. So I feel pulled to asking and finding a solution to this piece as it seems important to me now as I proceed.
June 1, 2011 at 17:46 |
DarrenM
DarrenM
moises:
<< And now that he has posted his commitment here, he would have to broadcast to countless readers his failure to honor his commitment. >>
I know you will find this difficult to believe but I do occasionally get some things done without having to broadcast my intention to my countless readers.
<< And now that he has posted his commitment here, he would have to broadcast to countless readers his failure to honor his commitment. >>
I know you will find this difficult to believe but I do occasionally get some things done without having to broadcast my intention to my countless readers.
June 1, 2011 at 18:31 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
I too have been messing around with Dreams after coming across it about a week ago. I am having a lot of success and excitement with this process. I think a lot of it is that it just fits with the way my brain works, the way I am wired for starters. I have ADD, am an artist (literary writer) (well published) and although I have done most everything for planning and plotting my time and days and goals, and the best system until now is a day list of stuff I want to get done. DIT like. Although believe me I have tried everything in between including autofocus, gtd, etc.
So then this Dreams thing comes across the transom. I gobble it up in one sitting. I start in five minutes. I am a big journaler anyway so this is like falling off a log for me.
I write (daily) my desired future, my present reality. I write pages of I WANTS and pages of I DON'T WANTS. Then I even go into I SHOULDS because those are MY I shoulds and they just came out of nowhere. But they are mine so I go with it. I do the BETTER lists at night.
BWAMMO!!!! I just start in on my life. No structure. No lists. In fact one of the strongest things about this Dreams thing is the FREEDOM. I started getting so much done. Working and working. Stuff that had been sitting around for months and years. There was no wrong move because I kept telling myself I was FREE and could do whatever I was moved to do. I would get stuck and remember to tell myself I could do anything so don't worry about it. That helped so much.
The thing that really sticks out for me from what Mark says in that book is that everything we do comes from feelings. Now feelings is my strong suit. I have spent so much time either trying to pound my feelings into shape so I could go to work, micro-managing my time so I could get something done (but as I set up huge schedules and structure and lists the feelings soon depart and I am stuck slogging along like a dead person.) I go numb fast in other words. Numb to lists, to structure.
Turning it over a la AA and the Higher Power thing Mark speaks about sends me off drifting as well. I go numb. I wait. I am always somehow waiting for the right system, the right way to do things-- The right way is through connection to your feelings actually. Right now I am not fighting with my feelings--I am trusting them.
Anyway this has been going on for a few days now. On the more difficult front is my writing. I am writing a book and it is a long hard slog. I have not worked through the Dreams thing with my book yet. My morning insight is that there is now with the book I am writing and there is the future desired reality with the book I am writing and with myself as a writer--and that there is ground to traverse to get from one to the other. That is what I am being lead to see (by the intuition inside me) right now, and that I should keep going and hang out with the trip. We know where we are going, so all is good etc. But I am def not going to knock off this book like I knocked off about a hundred other cool things over the weekend.
More later, but I wanted to get this out there.
Trish
So then this Dreams thing comes across the transom. I gobble it up in one sitting. I start in five minutes. I am a big journaler anyway so this is like falling off a log for me.
I write (daily) my desired future, my present reality. I write pages of I WANTS and pages of I DON'T WANTS. Then I even go into I SHOULDS because those are MY I shoulds and they just came out of nowhere. But they are mine so I go with it. I do the BETTER lists at night.
BWAMMO!!!! I just start in on my life. No structure. No lists. In fact one of the strongest things about this Dreams thing is the FREEDOM. I started getting so much done. Working and working. Stuff that had been sitting around for months and years. There was no wrong move because I kept telling myself I was FREE and could do whatever I was moved to do. I would get stuck and remember to tell myself I could do anything so don't worry about it. That helped so much.
The thing that really sticks out for me from what Mark says in that book is that everything we do comes from feelings. Now feelings is my strong suit. I have spent so much time either trying to pound my feelings into shape so I could go to work, micro-managing my time so I could get something done (but as I set up huge schedules and structure and lists the feelings soon depart and I am stuck slogging along like a dead person.) I go numb fast in other words. Numb to lists, to structure.
Turning it over a la AA and the Higher Power thing Mark speaks about sends me off drifting as well. I go numb. I wait. I am always somehow waiting for the right system, the right way to do things-- The right way is through connection to your feelings actually. Right now I am not fighting with my feelings--I am trusting them.
Anyway this has been going on for a few days now. On the more difficult front is my writing. I am writing a book and it is a long hard slog. I have not worked through the Dreams thing with my book yet. My morning insight is that there is now with the book I am writing and there is the future desired reality with the book I am writing and with myself as a writer--and that there is ground to traverse to get from one to the other. That is what I am being lead to see (by the intuition inside me) right now, and that I should keep going and hang out with the trip. We know where we are going, so all is good etc. But I am def not going to knock off this book like I knocked off about a hundred other cool things over the weekend.
More later, but I wanted to get this out there.
Trish
June 1, 2011 at 18:58 |
Trish
Trish
Trish:
i enjoyed your writing. Some thoughts that may support you from new-age thinking.
trusting feelings is trusting energy-in-motion (e-motion), flowing from a higher power (?!). I'm keen on freedom too and it often comes from choosing our response, not focusing on the outer.
i enjoyed your writing. Some thoughts that may support you from new-age thinking.
trusting feelings is trusting energy-in-motion (e-motion), flowing from a higher power (?!). I'm keen on freedom too and it often comes from choosing our response, not focusing on the outer.
June 1, 2011 at 19:08 |
michael
michael
<<I know you will find this difficult to believe but I do occasionally get some things done without having to broadcast my intention to my countless readers.>>
Ouch! Point taken.
One of the fundamental behavioral techniques to get things done is to make a commitment to others, e.g. announcing you will start an exercise program, or stop smoking.
When someone does this as an intentional strategy to increase their odds of success, I would classify that as a push strategy. (Am I correct?) But in my overly concise post, I now realize that I could have been interpreted as implying that Mark wouldn't have gotten his article completed unless he posted his public commitment here. That was not my intent. Sorry.
Ouch! Point taken.
One of the fundamental behavioral techniques to get things done is to make a commitment to others, e.g. announcing you will start an exercise program, or stop smoking.
When someone does this as an intentional strategy to increase their odds of success, I would classify that as a push strategy. (Am I correct?) But in my overly concise post, I now realize that I could have been interpreted as implying that Mark wouldn't have gotten his article completed unless he posted his public commitment here. That was not my intent. Sorry.
June 1, 2011 at 20:27 |
moises
moises
An interesting Robert Fritz take on affirmations, one of the major tools of personal development and self-growth
"The ideal/belief/reality conflict begins with an unwanted belief someone has, such as, “I’m a loser.” This belief is so unacceptable that the person automatically generates an ideal. The ideal is the opposite of the belief. “I’m a winner.” The purpose of the ideal is to argue against the real belief and hide it from view. There are only two ways to try to live up to the ideal, evidence and affirmation. Evidence is the list of real world accomplishments that argue against the ideal; “How can you be a loser if you keep winning all these awards?” Even as the list gets longer, the structure points back to the unwanted belief, “Who but a person who thinks she is a loser must prove she isn’t?”
The other strategy is to affirm the ideal: “I am a winner, I am a winner, etc.” So, over time, the unwanted belief is reinforced by the affirmation because the only reason to declare the ideal is to argue against the belief."
and a rebuff to self-esteem?
"As I have said before, hasn’t the self-esteem gang ever read a biography of the most accomplished people? If they had, they would be forced to reject their own doctrine. And so, Lady Gaga, with her unwanted belief in tact, went on stage to a sold out crowd and blew their socks off, because, at the end of the day, what you think about yourself doesn’t matter a bit in the creative process. Not one bit."
http://on.fb.me/mC5IY0
"The ideal/belief/reality conflict begins with an unwanted belief someone has, such as, “I’m a loser.” This belief is so unacceptable that the person automatically generates an ideal. The ideal is the opposite of the belief. “I’m a winner.” The purpose of the ideal is to argue against the real belief and hide it from view. There are only two ways to try to live up to the ideal, evidence and affirmation. Evidence is the list of real world accomplishments that argue against the ideal; “How can you be a loser if you keep winning all these awards?” Even as the list gets longer, the structure points back to the unwanted belief, “Who but a person who thinks she is a loser must prove she isn’t?”
The other strategy is to affirm the ideal: “I am a winner, I am a winner, etc.” So, over time, the unwanted belief is reinforced by the affirmation because the only reason to declare the ideal is to argue against the belief."
and a rebuff to self-esteem?
"As I have said before, hasn’t the self-esteem gang ever read a biography of the most accomplished people? If they had, they would be forced to reject their own doctrine. And so, Lady Gaga, with her unwanted belief in tact, went on stage to a sold out crowd and blew their socks off, because, at the end of the day, what you think about yourself doesn’t matter a bit in the creative process. Not one bit."
http://on.fb.me/mC5IY0
June 1, 2011 at 20:57 |
michael
michael
The article was safely sent off at 11.20 p.m. (I finished it a lot earlier but wanted to check a few facts before sending it off).
This was a good example of how one can trust one's mind to get something done in time if one is in Pull mode. At no time did I push myself to get it done - even though it was running close to the deadline.
This was a good example of how one can trust one's mind to get something done in time if one is in Pull mode. At no time did I push myself to get it done - even though it was running close to the deadline.
June 2, 2011 at 0:50 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
michael:
I have always found affirmations to be completely useless. The trouble I find is that I can't fool my mind simply by saying "I'm a winner" over and over. There's always a little voice in my head saying "No, you're not". And the trouble is that it's this little voice which I actually believe.
What I've sometimes done is use this in reverse. So I would tell myself "This seminar is going to be a disaster" and the little voice would say "No, it's not". In fact I've observed quite a few people use this method of predicting disaster as a way to increase their belief in themselves.
The power of negative thinking, perhaps?
http://www.defensivepessimism.com/
I have always found affirmations to be completely useless. The trouble I find is that I can't fool my mind simply by saying "I'm a winner" over and over. There's always a little voice in my head saying "No, you're not". And the trouble is that it's this little voice which I actually believe.
What I've sometimes done is use this in reverse. So I would tell myself "This seminar is going to be a disaster" and the little voice would say "No, it's not". In fact I've observed quite a few people use this method of predicting disaster as a way to increase their belief in themselves.
The power of negative thinking, perhaps?
http://www.defensivepessimism.com/
June 2, 2011 at 8:25 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
Having posted the above about affirmations, I'm finding that my Future Reality is becoming more and more like an affirmation:
"I am living a creative life in which I do what I feel like doing. Everything I set my hands to comes to fruition effortlessly, and I feel at peace with myself and the universe."
It's interesting to explore why this is a different dynamic from an affirmation. There are two main reasons, I think:
1) I have allowed the Future Reality to develop rather than be something static which I'm trying to persuade myself is true. So it ends up reflecting a truth about myself, even if that truth isn't being manifested at present.
2) The Future Reality is balanced by the Current Reality, in which I'm completely honest about where I am in relation to the Future Reality. This is where the "little voice" gets its say.
Working with the two Realities in this way means that you believe both of them, and this creates the structural tension between them which Fritz says propels one towards the goal.
The problem I had with Fritz's book was that I didn't think that he paid enough attention to feelings and the development of the Future Reality (my term - I can't remember what he calls it). In fact, if I remember rightly, he's rather dismissive about feelings and he advises describing the goal only enough so you'll recognise it when you see it. It's a long time since I read his book, but I remember thinking that his basic thesis, creating structural tension between the future and the present, was spot on but that he hadn't actually taken it far enough.
"I am living a creative life in which I do what I feel like doing. Everything I set my hands to comes to fruition effortlessly, and I feel at peace with myself and the universe."
It's interesting to explore why this is a different dynamic from an affirmation. There are two main reasons, I think:
1) I have allowed the Future Reality to develop rather than be something static which I'm trying to persuade myself is true. So it ends up reflecting a truth about myself, even if that truth isn't being manifested at present.
2) The Future Reality is balanced by the Current Reality, in which I'm completely honest about where I am in relation to the Future Reality. This is where the "little voice" gets its say.
Working with the two Realities in this way means that you believe both of them, and this creates the structural tension between them which Fritz says propels one towards the goal.
The problem I had with Fritz's book was that I didn't think that he paid enough attention to feelings and the development of the Future Reality (my term - I can't remember what he calls it). In fact, if I remember rightly, he's rather dismissive about feelings and he advises describing the goal only enough so you'll recognise it when you see it. It's a long time since I read his book, but I remember thinking that his basic thesis, creating structural tension between the future and the present, was spot on but that he hadn't actually taken it far enough.
June 2, 2011 at 8:41 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
The self-persuasion issue of course revolves around the doubt versus trust (faith,belief) issue. I have heard doubt defined as complete trust in something you don't want to believe.
June 2, 2011 at 11:08 |
michael
michael
michael:
<< I have heard doubt defined as complete trust in something you don't want to believe.>>
I'm not sure I quite follow that one.
<< I have heard doubt defined as complete trust in something you don't want to believe.>>
I'm not sure I quite follow that one.
June 2, 2011 at 11:31 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
Week 3 w/ Dreams
My Family Therapy practice is completely full, with a small wait-list.
My graphic novel - How Motley Crue Saved My Wife, uh, Life: A tale of bullying, marriage and psychoanalysis - is picking up speed.
I'm not so foolish to believe that PULL/Dreams are fully responsible, but something is going on, and I like it! Though it's hard to discern how much of my day is in pull/push mode.
Side note: The only list I'm working with is a daily to-do list, re-written daily with tasks unfinished from yesterday, and tasks I'd like to do today. That's it, that's all.
My Family Therapy practice is completely full, with a small wait-list.
My graphic novel - How Motley Crue Saved My Wife, uh, Life: A tale of bullying, marriage and psychoanalysis - is picking up speed.
I'm not so foolish to believe that PULL/Dreams are fully responsible, but something is going on, and I like it! Though it's hard to discern how much of my day is in pull/push mode.
Side note: The only list I'm working with is a daily to-do list, re-written daily with tasks unfinished from yesterday, and tasks I'd like to do today. That's it, that's all.
June 2, 2011 at 19:25 |
avrum
avrum
Mark:
Do you think the present and future reality should be revised after referring to previous versions or written afresh without looking back (as in the "Something I want from life" exercise)?
Below is a channelled source offering (in my own opinion) an interesting perspective on your own views
http://www.youtube.com/user/BasharCommunications#p/u/6/ffsTkBQjR2o
Do you think the present and future reality should be revised after referring to previous versions or written afresh without looking back (as in the "Something I want from life" exercise)?
Below is a channelled source offering (in my own opinion) an interesting perspective on your own views
http://www.youtube.com/user/BasharCommunications#p/u/6/ffsTkBQjR2o
June 2, 2011 at 20:31 |
michael
michael
<<Do you think the present and future reality should be revised after referring to previous versions or written afresh without looking back (as in the "Something I want from life" exercise)?>>
Good question. I've been revising anew each morning, but it seems all over the place.
Good question. I've been revising anew each morning, but it seems all over the place.
June 2, 2011 at 21:00 |
avrum
avrum
avrum:
perhaps that means you are rapidly clarifying and refining your vision
perhaps that means you are rapidly clarifying and refining your vision
June 2, 2011 at 21:12 |
michael
michael
michael:
<<perhaps that means you are rapidly clarifying and refining your vision >>
My first attempt at a future vision included a lot of detail i.e. I'm living in Vancouver, BC, on such and such a street. I'm wondering if that hinders the process - particularly if each daily revision includes new details based on how I'm feeling that day. I'm not sure. Also, I'm toying with the idea of including a sub-goal i.e. The launch of a successful graphic novel, to be used for my daily exercises.
<<perhaps that means you are rapidly clarifying and refining your vision >>
My first attempt at a future vision included a lot of detail i.e. I'm living in Vancouver, BC, on such and such a street. I'm wondering if that hinders the process - particularly if each daily revision includes new details based on how I'm feeling that day. I'm not sure. Also, I'm toying with the idea of including a sub-goal i.e. The launch of a successful graphic novel, to be used for my daily exercises.
June 2, 2011 at 22:03 |
avrum
avrum
From my understanding of these kinds of processes it's better to focus on the essence of what you would gain from the detail. What does living in Vancouver bring to you? What feeling, specifically? And what other ways are there of having that feeling? If you insist on specifics I believe you limit the forms and circumstances that can deliver it.
June 2, 2011 at 22:06 |
michael
michael
<<If you insist on specifics I believe you limit the forms and circumstances that can deliver it. >>
I agree! Something to work on...
I agree! Something to work on...
June 2, 2011 at 22:54 |
avrum
avrum
My own practice at the moment is to copy out the two Realities, making amendments as I do so. I find that works well.
As far as the amount of detail is concerned, I would allow that to emerge naturally from the process. The Future Reality I have now has no concrete detail at all, but it emerged naturally over the years from the detailed Future Vision which I had when I started the book - which was itself the product of a lengthy process of revision.
It's interesting that I picked the same vision up again directly even though I hadn't been using the methods for years.
As far as the amount of detail is concerned, I would allow that to emerge naturally from the process. The Future Reality I have now has no concrete detail at all, but it emerged naturally over the years from the detailed Future Vision which I had when I started the book - which was itself the product of a lengthy process of revision.
It's interesting that I picked the same vision up again directly even though I hadn't been using the methods for years.
June 2, 2011 at 22:56 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
After one week revisiting the Dreams methods, I think it's true to say that I have got just as much done as I did using AF/SF etc, but without needing to keep any lists apart from the occasional reminder. What's more I got moving in several new directions, which might not have happened with the other methods.
June 2, 2011 at 23:03 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
Mark:
I have found the condensed Dreams process below to be most effective, after following your suggestions on an earlier thread
1. daily, write my heartfelt vision of how I currently want to be and what I want to enjoy and how I want to feel good about it all
2. at thesame time, write out the current situation - including the negative feelings about it
3. maintain a daily "what's better list" looking for examples of what I wanted to be happening, including my own good feelings and experiences
4. I rewrite the future sometimes during the same day, if I feel like doing so
5 I don't do the future self dialogue, at all
6 adopt the attitude of surrender or trust in the unconscious
At the moment I've dropped affirmations and working out ways to shift belief systems.
I have found the condensed Dreams process below to be most effective, after following your suggestions on an earlier thread
1. daily, write my heartfelt vision of how I currently want to be and what I want to enjoy and how I want to feel good about it all
2. at thesame time, write out the current situation - including the negative feelings about it
3. maintain a daily "what's better list" looking for examples of what I wanted to be happening, including my own good feelings and experiences
4. I rewrite the future sometimes during the same day, if I feel like doing so
5 I don't do the future self dialogue, at all
6 adopt the attitude of surrender or trust in the unconscious
At the moment I've dropped affirmations and working out ways to shift belief systems.
June 3, 2011 at 21:57 |
michael
michael
michael:
If that's working for you fine. The dialogue is probably the least important part for establishing Pull mode. But on the other hand I've made some major breakthroughs through dialoguing.
If that's working for you fine. The dialogue is probably the least important part for establishing Pull mode. But on the other hand I've made some major breakthroughs through dialoguing.
June 4, 2011 at 11:47 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
mark:
<<But on the other hand I've made some major breakthroughs through dialoguing>>
I gave up on dialoguing because:
1. I had difficulty creating an authentic future-self/coach
2. Questions posed (by future-self) were not nearly as clever or insightful as the dialogue in Dreams.
However, there were times when I changed the dialogue from present/self --> future/self` to an inner diaolgue with my present self, posing questions & answers and general internal support. This seemed to work better. I'm thinking a daily Dreams workout would look something like this:
AM: Present/Future exercise
Midday Check-in: Dialogue with self i.e. What's working, what's not, visioning an outcome for the remaining hours of the day
Before bed: What went better
Thoughts?
<<But on the other hand I've made some major breakthroughs through dialoguing>>
I gave up on dialoguing because:
1. I had difficulty creating an authentic future-self/coach
2. Questions posed (by future-self) were not nearly as clever or insightful as the dialogue in Dreams.
However, there were times when I changed the dialogue from present/self --> future/self` to an inner diaolgue with my present self, posing questions & answers and general internal support. This seemed to work better. I'm thinking a daily Dreams workout would look something like this:
AM: Present/Future exercise
Midday Check-in: Dialogue with self i.e. What's working, what's not, visioning an outcome for the remaining hours of the day
Before bed: What went better
Thoughts?
June 4, 2011 at 16:36 |
avrum
avrum
I'm currently experimenting with changing the "selves" around so that Present Self is the one asking the questions and Future Self is the one giving the answers. This seems to be working well so far.
June 4, 2011 at 17:43 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
I wonder if free-writing the present and future realities helps? Or if future-self writes future reality? Or if one attempts to write a story of how present reality were to develop to become future reality?
June 4, 2011 at 19:30 |
michael
michael
One unpleasant side-effect for me of focusing more on the wanted future reality for me has been to be more bothered by the unpleasant parts of the current reality. I shall ponder a solution...
June 5, 2011 at 9:48 |
michael
michael
...and a follow on thought, that a future reality is where life is most fulfilling and enjoyable living is, devaluing or misperceiving the current situation. the hurt of wanting something better can outweigh the positive feeling of the desired future.
June 5, 2011 at 11:07 |
michael
michael
michael:
I don't think being more bothered by the unpleasant parts of the current reality is a bad thing at all. It's the tension between the vision of the future and the reality of the present that provides the motive force to move from one to another.
I don't think being more bothered by the unpleasant parts of the current reality is a bad thing at all. It's the tension between the vision of the future and the reality of the present that provides the motive force to move from one to another.
June 5, 2011 at 12:39 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
Mark:
<<It's the tension between the vision of the future and the reality of the present that provides the motive force to move from one to another. >>
I agree. The unpleasant parts of my current reality are here, regardless if I do your exercise or not. Moreover, in my life, there's a direct correlation between chronic unease about my current reality (often fear avoidance behaviors/thinking), and the impetus to change. Dreams merely provided a workflow for something I was already doing - albeit in a haphazard way.
<<It's the tension between the vision of the future and the reality of the present that provides the motive force to move from one to another. >>
I agree. The unpleasant parts of my current reality are here, regardless if I do your exercise or not. Moreover, in my life, there's a direct correlation between chronic unease about my current reality (often fear avoidance behaviors/thinking), and the impetus to change. Dreams merely provided a workflow for something I was already doing - albeit in a haphazard way.
June 5, 2011 at 16:31 |
avrum
avrum
update:
future vision keeps changing, day by day and is not yet settled. i feel some frustration with that as there is a temptation to "get on with it" (push mode). A reminder to accept and not struggle perhaps?
future vision keeps changing, day by day and is not yet settled. i feel some frustration with that as there is a temptation to "get on with it" (push mode). A reminder to accept and not struggle perhaps?
June 8, 2011 at 17:00 |
michael
michael
1) Dreams seems to start off by colonizing various areas of my life one by one, rather than everything all at once. So first it may get control of the email, then of the paper, then of the filing system, then of the fitness training, etc. etc. So it's quite normal to progress initially on a few subjects and for nothing to happen on others for some time.
2) Don't be dismayed if you wake up one morning and realize that your Future Reality is completely off the mark and that you need to tear it up and start again. Again this is quite normal and in fact represents a major break-through.