Discussion Forum > Lists as Worry Dolls
The bothers list:
Cricket: I believe this is a point David Allen makes for GTD: get it all out of your head, and then decide what it means to you, and then remind yourself of actions that may be needed. I extended autofocus a little by writing in anything I'm bothered or concerned about. I tend to find just writing them out shifts my perspective to a better state; (I often then dismiss them later as they evaporate by being out in the sunlight, as it were). David Allen would say I suppose that it's only on your mind because you need more clarity over your relationship to it, or commitment to it. So one might call a lot of what could be listed as "bothers" - "What am I bothered about?", in the sense of
a. To make agitated or nervous; fluster.
b. To make confused or perplexed; puzzle.
I'd like to see AF adapted for this kind of use, not just action-oriented but inner-oriented also. The aim then is to shrink the bothers list, not how many tasks were done.
Cricket: I believe this is a point David Allen makes for GTD: get it all out of your head, and then decide what it means to you, and then remind yourself of actions that may be needed. I extended autofocus a little by writing in anything I'm bothered or concerned about. I tend to find just writing them out shifts my perspective to a better state; (I often then dismiss them later as they evaporate by being out in the sunlight, as it were). David Allen would say I suppose that it's only on your mind because you need more clarity over your relationship to it, or commitment to it. So one might call a lot of what could be listed as "bothers" - "What am I bothered about?", in the sense of
a. To make agitated or nervous; fluster.
b. To make confused or perplexed; puzzle.
I'd like to see AF adapted for this kind of use, not just action-oriented but inner-oriented also. The aim then is to shrink the bothers list, not how many tasks were done.
September 25, 2011 at 10:04 |
michael
michael
Lists as worry dolls: I am pondering this, and it is resonating right now as I am finding myself using my notebook less and less, even though there is plenty in it. I am still letting Mark's "Dreams" protocol run the show, using the notebook only as a supporting tool, so I will return to the notebook "when I feel it, and not before."
Thanks, Cricket, for this topic, an interesting thought at an opportune time.
<<I'd like to see AF adapted for this kind of use, not just action-oriented but inner-oriented also.>>
michael, I've occasionally done something approaching this, such as when I kicked the habit of drinking multiple energy drinks per day by writing reverse-psychology exhortations in my SF notebook.
But your term "inner-oriented" has me thinking. My experiments so far have been action-oriented in form, though they have been about self-improvement rather than getting a task done. For example: "Spend $xx per week on two Monster drinks daily," and "Spend $yy per week on one Monster drink Sat. and one Sun." With repeated exposure, the latter stood out, the former got dismissed, and I stayed with this pattern for months with no trouble, actually enjoying the drink more on those special weekends while saving money. A great success, but my point here is that those were still actions on my list, rather than inner-oriented items.
Now that I am following the "Dreams" protocol, what if inner-oriented items from my written visions appeared on my AF list? Not tasks, but higher-level items to promote mindfulness, or simply to brighten up my pages by reminding me of awesome things toward which my visions are undoubtedly pulling me? These items would be far too general to prompt a specific action (or would they?), but perhaps they would help keep my vision fresh as I go about my day. As my AF notebook slumbers peacefully (full of dormant, low-priority worries), this too intrigues me. Thanks for the idea!
Mark,
All this has me wondering: do you think "inner-oriented" items would respond to your Final Version's sifting magic?
BTW, I have since allowed the energy drinks back in as a displacement activity to kick a different habit. A shell game, yes, but at least I did it by choice!
Thanks, Cricket, for this topic, an interesting thought at an opportune time.
<<I'd like to see AF adapted for this kind of use, not just action-oriented but inner-oriented also.>>
michael, I've occasionally done something approaching this, such as when I kicked the habit of drinking multiple energy drinks per day by writing reverse-psychology exhortations in my SF notebook.
But your term "inner-oriented" has me thinking. My experiments so far have been action-oriented in form, though they have been about self-improvement rather than getting a task done. For example: "Spend $xx per week on two Monster drinks daily," and "Spend $yy per week on one Monster drink Sat. and one Sun." With repeated exposure, the latter stood out, the former got dismissed, and I stayed with this pattern for months with no trouble, actually enjoying the drink more on those special weekends while saving money. A great success, but my point here is that those were still actions on my list, rather than inner-oriented items.
Now that I am following the "Dreams" protocol, what if inner-oriented items from my written visions appeared on my AF list? Not tasks, but higher-level items to promote mindfulness, or simply to brighten up my pages by reminding me of awesome things toward which my visions are undoubtedly pulling me? These items would be far too general to prompt a specific action (or would they?), but perhaps they would help keep my vision fresh as I go about my day. As my AF notebook slumbers peacefully (full of dormant, low-priority worries), this too intrigues me. Thanks for the idea!
Mark,
All this has me wondering: do you think "inner-oriented" items would respond to your Final Version's sifting magic?
BTW, I have since allowed the energy drinks back in as a displacement activity to kick a different habit. A shell game, yes, but at least I did it by choice!
September 26, 2011 at 6:39 |
Bernie
Bernie
<< Last week, we needed worry dolls. Now that the worst is over, I finally remembered them.>>
Cricket, whatever the worries were, I hope things came out alright.
Cricket, whatever the worries were, I hope things came out alright.
September 26, 2011 at 6:52 |
Bernie
Bernie
Bernie/michael:
<< All this has me wondering: do you think "inner-oriented" items would respond to your Final Version's sifting magic? >>
I used to frequently put "inner oriented" items into AF. It doesn't need adapting to do this.
I'm into new territory with the Final Version, and I'm not quite sure what is going to come out of it. However one thing I'm quite sure of is that there won't be any question of your notebook slumbering quietly full of dormant, low-priority worries.
<< All this has me wondering: do you think "inner-oriented" items would respond to your Final Version's sifting magic? >>
I used to frequently put "inner oriented" items into AF. It doesn't need adapting to do this.
I'm into new territory with the Final Version, and I'm not quite sure what is going to come out of it. However one thing I'm quite sure of is that there won't be any question of your notebook slumbering quietly full of dormant, low-priority worries.
September 26, 2011 at 8:07 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
Re: Bernie breaking habits. John Tesh reports success replacing "check email" with "10 pushups now".
Re: positive ideas. I recently dumped in points from a talk on innovating. at first it felt useless. Then I culled the ones I knew already and the ones that didn't resonate. Now the few left are getting me to think.
Re: positive ideas. I recently dumped in points from a talk on innovating. at first it felt useless. Then I culled the ones I knew already and the ones that didn't resonate. Now the few left are getting me to think.
September 26, 2011 at 12:28 |
Alan Baljeu
Alan Baljeu
Bernie: <<But your term "inner-oriented" has me thinking.>>
Me too. I'm wondering if the "cave deposits" approach might work: put all the inner-oriented bothers and activities for more peace of mind and balance etc at the bottom of the page, all the outer-oriented activities or pleasures or expectations or assumptions about the day down from the top. I wonder if I could get a better harmony and flow into the day that way?
Me too. I'm wondering if the "cave deposits" approach might work: put all the inner-oriented bothers and activities for more peace of mind and balance etc at the bottom of the page, all the outer-oriented activities or pleasures or expectations or assumptions about the day down from the top. I wonder if I could get a better harmony and flow into the day that way?
September 26, 2011 at 14:03 |
michael
michael
michael,
During my energy drink experiment, I felt it was key to have these items listed right in the flow of regular tasks, so I would hit them at random, without being in any special frame of mind. Segregating them to the bottom of the list might work against that.
During my energy drink experiment, I felt it was key to have these items listed right in the flow of regular tasks, so I would hit them at random, without being in any special frame of mind. Segregating them to the bottom of the list might work against that.
September 26, 2011 at 14:42 |
Bernie
Bernie
+JMJ+
Sorry for the absence, guys, I have been quite busy.
I have a suggestion for making your AF lists into worry dolls: <<let your dismissed items linger where they are.>>
Remember that dismissed items are items that have removed from your processing of your AF list, but they are still not deleted; they can be "called up from the deep," so to speak. They are out of sight---not being considered in AF---, out of mind---written in your dismissed pages, so you can safely forget them until you need to remember them. The perfect worry doll.
This is what I have been doing recently with my system. The system lets tasks linger for 7 days then what's left is dismissed. And I have 10 pages worth of dismissed items currently which I cannot bear to process or delete right away, and leaving them there to fallow actually feels...good.
God bless.
Sorry for the absence, guys, I have been quite busy.
I have a suggestion for making your AF lists into worry dolls: <<let your dismissed items linger where they are.>>
Remember that dismissed items are items that have removed from your processing of your AF list, but they are still not deleted; they can be "called up from the deep," so to speak. They are out of sight---not being considered in AF---, out of mind---written in your dismissed pages, so you can safely forget them until you need to remember them. The perfect worry doll.
This is what I have been doing recently with my system. The system lets tasks linger for 7 days then what's left is dismissed. And I have 10 pages worth of dismissed items currently which I cannot bear to process or delete right away, and leaving them there to fallow actually feels...good.
God bless.
September 26, 2011 at 15:26 |
nuntym
nuntym
I tried this experiment in reverse yesterday - I put my AF lists away and went into the world without them. I noticed a marked increase in my fretting over things I thought I might forget, or needed to do, or frequent attempts to memorise "stuff". It rather sharpened my appreciation of my AF worry dolls!
October 5, 2011 at 19:32 |
michael
michael
I thought I'd written this bit before, but it doesn't seem to be in any of the threads.
Sometimes, especially when stressed, I spend time without my lists. Usually it's for a walk or something else relaxing. Sometimes it's for an entire day.
Usually, being able to write things on the list is relaxing. They're out of my mind, safe on the list.
Sometimes, though, I start adding every little thing at random and every little thing becomes important. Yes, AF will sort them all out later, but constantly pulling out the list to add to it is stressful. Adding to the list becomes more important than getting things done or relaxing.
When that happens, I need to give myself permission to not add things, and to have faith that the important things will come back.
My uncle, who's into meditation, says the same thing. Sometimes the solution to a problem appears while he's meditating. He doesn't stop to write it down. Instead, he has faith that, now that he has thought of the solution, it will re-appear when he can do something about it.
That's not the same as forgetting my notebook or not bothering to do anything other than play computer solitaire. Those stress me out more.
Instead, I say, "I will take these hours off. I will do just enough housework to keep things moving smoothly, and I will relax, maybe play some computer solitaire, maybe make something pretty. I will have faith that I will remember important things." If something demands to be written down before it lets me relax, I'll do it, but for that time I keep faith that the things I don't write down won't come back to bite me.
Sometimes, especially when stressed, I spend time without my lists. Usually it's for a walk or something else relaxing. Sometimes it's for an entire day.
Usually, being able to write things on the list is relaxing. They're out of my mind, safe on the list.
Sometimes, though, I start adding every little thing at random and every little thing becomes important. Yes, AF will sort them all out later, but constantly pulling out the list to add to it is stressful. Adding to the list becomes more important than getting things done or relaxing.
When that happens, I need to give myself permission to not add things, and to have faith that the important things will come back.
My uncle, who's into meditation, says the same thing. Sometimes the solution to a problem appears while he's meditating. He doesn't stop to write it down. Instead, he has faith that, now that he has thought of the solution, it will re-appear when he can do something about it.
That's not the same as forgetting my notebook or not bothering to do anything other than play computer solitaire. Those stress me out more.
Instead, I say, "I will take these hours off. I will do just enough housework to keep things moving smoothly, and I will relax, maybe play some computer solitaire, maybe make something pretty. I will have faith that I will remember important things." If something demands to be written down before it lets me relax, I'll do it, but for that time I keep faith that the things I don't write down won't come back to bite me.
October 6, 2011 at 14:25 |
Cricket
Cricket
Cricket: Don't forget the recurring tasks of "relax and enjoy", "take a few minutes out", "Afiirm I'm here to enjoy living", "5 minutes breathe and meditate", "have some no-task time today" etc. You get the idea.
October 6, 2011 at 15:48 |
michael
michael
I'm with Cricket. When all is in order, it's more relaxing after work to consult the list, and if nothing presses, set it aside and just do what I want.
October 6, 2011 at 18:45 |
Alan Baljeu
Alan Baljeu
Michael,
You know how the thing you need to do most is the thing you resist the most?
Alan,
Often, it's when I feel that life is throwing too much at me all at once that I most need the list-free break. With the list, I'm on-duty. Actively deciding to not think of more things to put on the list is part of choosing to relax.
+++++
Most of the time, I crave lists. They hold on to things for me. I've seen them reduce huge complex problems and stresses to something quite handleable often enough that creating a list is automatic. They work.
It's just that sometimes my life begins to revolve around the list. The list becomes a monster, demanding to be fed. Tiny things get promoted to "list-worthy" rather than let go. Also, the list becomes a reminder of all that I haven't done. AF counters this most of the time, with permission to write down anything and let the system filter for me, but sometimes it's just not strong enough.
You know how the thing you need to do most is the thing you resist the most?
Alan,
Often, it's when I feel that life is throwing too much at me all at once that I most need the list-free break. With the list, I'm on-duty. Actively deciding to not think of more things to put on the list is part of choosing to relax.
+++++
Most of the time, I crave lists. They hold on to things for me. I've seen them reduce huge complex problems and stresses to something quite handleable often enough that creating a list is automatic. They work.
It's just that sometimes my life begins to revolve around the list. The list becomes a monster, demanding to be fed. Tiny things get promoted to "list-worthy" rather than let go. Also, the list becomes a reminder of all that I haven't done. AF counters this most of the time, with permission to write down anything and let the system filter for me, but sometimes it's just not strong enough.
October 6, 2011 at 19:32 |
Cricket
Cricket
There's an intermediate position which is to do the work without looking at or adding to the list. Then when you feel like it's time to go back to the list, cross off all the tasks which you have done in the meantime. I am usually amazed at how many I have done.
October 6, 2011 at 19:52 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
<<...I crave lists. They hold on to things for me. >>>
Some lists I have played with from journalling techniques:
undecided list
irritations list
what I discarded this year list
where I'm going in life list
Some lists I have played with from journalling techniques:
undecided list
irritations list
what I discarded this year list
where I'm going in life list
October 9, 2011 at 10:51 |
michael
michael
Lists can serve the same purpose. You write all the things you're worried about forgetting into the list, or things you can't or shouldn't worry about now but want to remember for later, on the list.
This might be why sometimes we resist lists. Worry dolls look after the worry for you and take it away. Lists help you remember things. We shouldn't remember worries. We should remember things that will help reduce them.