Discussion Forum > "AutoDIT"
Seraphim:
Very interesting! There are some resemblances to the Final Version in matters of detail, though overall they are very different - though hopefully accomplishing the same ends.
I couldn't quite follow what you meant by DATED pages - perhaps because I was getting confused by its use along with TOMORROW, TODAY, JANUARY, etc, which are all sort of dated.
Am I right in thinking that the date on a DATED page is the date on which the page is created rather than the date it is due to be actioned? So today's NEW page becomes a DATED page tomorrow? I'm not clear how you select which DATED pages to work on.
I'm also not clear about PROJECT pages. When do you put a task into a PROJECT page as opposed to a NEW page? In para 3, you show PROJECT pages in your list of the order of work, but not in the example of a typical day. Is there a reason for this, or is it just an omission?
Do you just select PROJECT pages and DATED pages more or less at random to work on, or is there some process you use to select them?
Having asked these questions I'm now going to re-read the instructions to see if I can answer them myself!
Very interesting! There are some resemblances to the Final Version in matters of detail, though overall they are very different - though hopefully accomplishing the same ends.
I couldn't quite follow what you meant by DATED pages - perhaps because I was getting confused by its use along with TOMORROW, TODAY, JANUARY, etc, which are all sort of dated.
Am I right in thinking that the date on a DATED page is the date on which the page is created rather than the date it is due to be actioned? So today's NEW page becomes a DATED page tomorrow? I'm not clear how you select which DATED pages to work on.
I'm also not clear about PROJECT pages. When do you put a task into a PROJECT page as opposed to a NEW page? In para 3, you show PROJECT pages in your list of the order of work, but not in the example of a typical day. Is there a reason for this, or is it just an omission?
Do you just select PROJECT pages and DATED pages more or less at random to work on, or is there some process you use to select them?
Having asked these questions I'm now going to re-read the instructions to see if I can answer them myself!
December 28, 2011 at 11:08 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
Having re-read the instructions, I find that I'm clearer about the DATED pages. Yes, I was right - dated pages are old NEW pages with the date they were created on them. I'm still not clear about my other questions.
And now I have a further question, this time about the TODAY page. Is that simply yesterday's TOMORROW page?
What happens if you have too much in the TODAY page to action today? I get that you can hive off some of it into the TOMORROW page, but doesn't that just put the problem off rather than solve it? If you get a lot of recurring/unfinished tasks in TODAY/TOMORROW (almost inevitable I'd think!) how do you succeed in dealing with NEW tasks? It sounds to me as if not a lot of them are going to get done.
So I'm not quite sure where the safely valve is in this system. As far as I can see, the only dismissal is for new stuff which hasn't been started yet (the DATED lists), but what about all the stuff which you've started but haven't finished yet? How does this get weeded out?
I'm worrying that the way this system controls your excessive work load is by restricting new stuff to a trickle rather than continuously making everything you are doing justify itself. I'm sure you will tell me this isn't the case - but I can't see what the mechanism is for controlling it. If the system is called "AutoDIT" then that would suggest that there is a mechanism and it's not just left to your own judgement. I assume the αυτο is supposed to refer to the car rather than the driver!
And now I have a further question, this time about the TODAY page. Is that simply yesterday's TOMORROW page?
What happens if you have too much in the TODAY page to action today? I get that you can hive off some of it into the TOMORROW page, but doesn't that just put the problem off rather than solve it? If you get a lot of recurring/unfinished tasks in TODAY/TOMORROW (almost inevitable I'd think!) how do you succeed in dealing with NEW tasks? It sounds to me as if not a lot of them are going to get done.
So I'm not quite sure where the safely valve is in this system. As far as I can see, the only dismissal is for new stuff which hasn't been started yet (the DATED lists), but what about all the stuff which you've started but haven't finished yet? How does this get weeded out?
I'm worrying that the way this system controls your excessive work load is by restricting new stuff to a trickle rather than continuously making everything you are doing justify itself. I'm sure you will tell me this isn't the case - but I can't see what the mechanism is for controlling it. If the system is called "AutoDIT" then that would suggest that there is a mechanism and it's not just left to your own judgement. I assume the αυτο is supposed to refer to the car rather than the driver!
December 28, 2011 at 11:31 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
Hi Seraphim Thanks for sharing yours ideas with us. I like the concept of the system by the way it deals with "close lists" and dated lists. There are many things we intend to do at a certain date. I do it my self planing some quarterly weekly or daily projects or tasks. The problem for me is the complexity of the system. I am sure it is ok for you because you have it in your mind. For me it will need a few readings to catch the all system. The other point is in my way of working with is mixed in planning and executing in the rush. I agree about what you said about AF1. But the method is simple and it is easy such as AF4. SF was more complicated. DIT too. (Yes I red MF book). I am now in search of a simple system easier than GTD, which with help me in my business maker life and which will help me to plan my strategy and objectives about my business and personal life.
December 28, 2011 at 12:34 |
FocusGuy.
FocusGuy.
Coincidentally, I was thinking to post on AutoFocus IT this week. I don't have in mind anything nearly as elaborate as Seraphim, just this simple notion:
As I go through the list, I may come across things I want to do tomorrow and rewrite then on a page designated for tomorrow. In particular, new tasks and reentered tasks are liable to be shoved there. In particular, tomorrow as I work on that page, I may work some of those items several times, then shunt those worked items to the morrow especially to ensure I complete that list, but also to give a sense of approaching completion on the day, after which any activity is considered bonus.
As I go through the list, I may come across things I want to do tomorrow and rewrite then on a page designated for tomorrow. In particular, new tasks and reentered tasks are liable to be shoved there. In particular, tomorrow as I work on that page, I may work some of those items several times, then shunt those worked items to the morrow especially to ensure I complete that list, but also to give a sense of approaching completion on the day, after which any activity is considered bonus.
December 28, 2011 at 13:44 |
Alan Baljeu
Alan Baljeu
Hi Mark,
Yes, you figured out DATED pages correctly. I do admit the nomenclature is rather unclear.
:-)
<< I'm also not clear about PROJECT pages. When do you put a task into a PROJECT page as opposed to a NEW page? >>
Good catch - I did not specify that. Generally if I want to deal with the task in a batch with other similar tasks, I move it to the appropriate PROJECT page. But in practice I find I am using PROJECT pages less and less.
<< In para 3, you show PROJECT pages in your list of the order of work, but not in the example of a typical day. Is there a reason for this, or is it just an omission? >>
Just an omission.
My current pages are as follows, in order of processing:
- JANUARY
- MONDAY
- SATURDAY
- FRIDAY
- TOMORROW
- TODAY
- NEW
- Errands
- Discuss with A.
- 12/21 <<< created when the NEW page filled up on 12/21
- 12/22 <<< created when the NEW page filled up on 12/22
- 12/26 <<< created when the NEW page filled up on 12/26
<< Do you just select PROJECT pages and DATED pages more or less at random to work on, or is there some process you use to select them? >>
I process them in the order above.
I spend most of my time cycling through the TODAY page. But after awhile, I need a break (which becomes apparent when nothing on that page stands out), so I move on to the NEW page.
After cycling through the NEW page, if there is "a lot" of stuff left, then I move the NEW page to the end, and make it a dated page. Then I create a new NEW page in the same order of position as the previous NEW page -- i.e., immediately following the TODAY page. I then move on to the first PROJECT page, in this case, "Errands".
I then cycle through the Errands page, till nothing stands out.
I then cycle through the Discuss with A. page, till nothing stands out.
I then cycle through the 12/21 page, till nothing stands out.
I then cycle through the 12/22 page, till nothing stands out.
I then cycle through the 12/26 page, till nothing stands out.
Then I go back to the top of the order.
I generally just skip through JANUARY, MONDAY, SATURDAY, and FRIDAY, because those tasks are waiting till those days to start. Every now and then I realize I can actually work on something on those pages, and decide to work on it, but that hasn't happened for a while.
I do cycle through TOMORROW once or twice, because sometimes those tasks stand out, and it's OK to work on them ahead of time.
And then it's back to TODAY.
<< And now I have a further question, this time about the TODAY page. Is that simply yesterday's TOMORROW page? >>
Yes. In OneNote, I just move all the items on the TOMORROW page to the TODAY page, at the beginning of a new day. If I were doing this in a paper notebook, I would insert a new TOMORROW page, and rename the previous TOMORROW page as the new TODAY page. The old TODAY page can just be discarded because it's generally empty (which means the system is working!). If you do have items on your previous TODAY page, perhaps they need to be moved to NEW, rather than just copied forward to the new TODAY page.
<< What happens if you have too much in the TODAY page to action today? I get that you can hive off some of it into the TOMORROW page, but doesn't that just put the problem off rather than solve it? >>
This tends to get taken care of the first 1 or 2 passes through the TODAY page. I usually get a pretty good feel for what I can really do today. Tasks that don't fit often have a "negative standing out" feeling -- "get rid of me! there's no time for me today!" Sometimes I move them to TOMORROW, but if that happens more than once or twice, that task is clearly stale, and I move the task to NEW. It then has a chance to get actioned and be moved back into the TOMORROW/TODAY pages and get lots of attention; or to whither away, get moved to a dated page, and most likely dismissed.
It's the "negative standing out" feeling that prompts me to move stuff off the TODAY list. And that usually starts happening after 1-2 passes through the TODAY page, as I get a better feel for what's on my plate that day.
<< If you get a lot of recurring/unfinished tasks in TODAY/TOMORROW (almost inevitable I'd think!) how do you succeed in dealing with NEW tasks? It sounds to me as if not a lot of them are going to get done. >>
The NEW stuff gets attention only when nothing on the TODAY page stands out. On a busy day, that generally means NEW stuff doesn't get any attention at all. That's OK though. It's OK to enter new "urgent" things directly onto the TODAY or TOMORROW pages. You only enter stuff onto the NEW page when you don't really know where else to put it.
In practice, the NEW stuff gets attention when I have had enough of dealing with TODAY, and need a little excursion into something different. This does tend to put the focus on active tasks, unfinished tasks. New things don't get started till I know I actually have the bandwidth for them.
<< So I'm not quite sure where the safely valve is in this system. As far as I can see, the only dismissal is for new stuff which hasn't been started yet (the DATED lists), but what about all the stuff which you've started but haven't finished yet? How does this get weeded out? >>
I'm not really sure it's an airtight system -- and certainly not as elegant as your systems always are! But the safety valve seems to be that "negative standing out" feeling, that feeling of "no way this is getting done today" or "I really don't want to see this task again for another week".
<< I'm worrying that the way this system controls your excessive work load is by restricting new stuff to a trickle rather than continuously making everything you are doing justify itself. >>
I still have as much new incoming work as I always have -- in other words, far more than is reasonable. LOL. It just gets the attention it deserves -- AFTER my TODAY work is getting the attention IT deserves.
Recurring items, by the way, generally go directly into TOMORROW or MONDAY, and thus pass directly to TODAY, without passing through NEW. After getting actioned, I move them back to TOMORROW or MONDAY or whenever it is they need to recur.
<< If the system is called "AutoDIT" then that would suggest that there is a mechanism and it's not just left to your own judgement. I assume the αυτο is supposed to refer to the car rather than the driver! >>
Interesting point, I'll have to think about it. It has very much the same feel as AF1, so I think it's something about the system itself that is "auto", but maybe I am fooling myself. Wouldn't be the first time!
Thanks for your interesting questions!
Yes, you figured out DATED pages correctly. I do admit the nomenclature is rather unclear.
:-)
<< I'm also not clear about PROJECT pages. When do you put a task into a PROJECT page as opposed to a NEW page? >>
Good catch - I did not specify that. Generally if I want to deal with the task in a batch with other similar tasks, I move it to the appropriate PROJECT page. But in practice I find I am using PROJECT pages less and less.
<< In para 3, you show PROJECT pages in your list of the order of work, but not in the example of a typical day. Is there a reason for this, or is it just an omission? >>
Just an omission.
My current pages are as follows, in order of processing:
- JANUARY
- MONDAY
- SATURDAY
- FRIDAY
- TOMORROW
- TODAY
- NEW
- Errands
- Discuss with A.
- 12/21 <<< created when the NEW page filled up on 12/21
- 12/22 <<< created when the NEW page filled up on 12/22
- 12/26 <<< created when the NEW page filled up on 12/26
<< Do you just select PROJECT pages and DATED pages more or less at random to work on, or is there some process you use to select them? >>
I process them in the order above.
I spend most of my time cycling through the TODAY page. But after awhile, I need a break (which becomes apparent when nothing on that page stands out), so I move on to the NEW page.
After cycling through the NEW page, if there is "a lot" of stuff left, then I move the NEW page to the end, and make it a dated page. Then I create a new NEW page in the same order of position as the previous NEW page -- i.e., immediately following the TODAY page. I then move on to the first PROJECT page, in this case, "Errands".
I then cycle through the Errands page, till nothing stands out.
I then cycle through the Discuss with A. page, till nothing stands out.
I then cycle through the 12/21 page, till nothing stands out.
I then cycle through the 12/22 page, till nothing stands out.
I then cycle through the 12/26 page, till nothing stands out.
Then I go back to the top of the order.
I generally just skip through JANUARY, MONDAY, SATURDAY, and FRIDAY, because those tasks are waiting till those days to start. Every now and then I realize I can actually work on something on those pages, and decide to work on it, but that hasn't happened for a while.
I do cycle through TOMORROW once or twice, because sometimes those tasks stand out, and it's OK to work on them ahead of time.
And then it's back to TODAY.
<< And now I have a further question, this time about the TODAY page. Is that simply yesterday's TOMORROW page? >>
Yes. In OneNote, I just move all the items on the TOMORROW page to the TODAY page, at the beginning of a new day. If I were doing this in a paper notebook, I would insert a new TOMORROW page, and rename the previous TOMORROW page as the new TODAY page. The old TODAY page can just be discarded because it's generally empty (which means the system is working!). If you do have items on your previous TODAY page, perhaps they need to be moved to NEW, rather than just copied forward to the new TODAY page.
<< What happens if you have too much in the TODAY page to action today? I get that you can hive off some of it into the TOMORROW page, but doesn't that just put the problem off rather than solve it? >>
This tends to get taken care of the first 1 or 2 passes through the TODAY page. I usually get a pretty good feel for what I can really do today. Tasks that don't fit often have a "negative standing out" feeling -- "get rid of me! there's no time for me today!" Sometimes I move them to TOMORROW, but if that happens more than once or twice, that task is clearly stale, and I move the task to NEW. It then has a chance to get actioned and be moved back into the TOMORROW/TODAY pages and get lots of attention; or to whither away, get moved to a dated page, and most likely dismissed.
It's the "negative standing out" feeling that prompts me to move stuff off the TODAY list. And that usually starts happening after 1-2 passes through the TODAY page, as I get a better feel for what's on my plate that day.
<< If you get a lot of recurring/unfinished tasks in TODAY/TOMORROW (almost inevitable I'd think!) how do you succeed in dealing with NEW tasks? It sounds to me as if not a lot of them are going to get done. >>
The NEW stuff gets attention only when nothing on the TODAY page stands out. On a busy day, that generally means NEW stuff doesn't get any attention at all. That's OK though. It's OK to enter new "urgent" things directly onto the TODAY or TOMORROW pages. You only enter stuff onto the NEW page when you don't really know where else to put it.
In practice, the NEW stuff gets attention when I have had enough of dealing with TODAY, and need a little excursion into something different. This does tend to put the focus on active tasks, unfinished tasks. New things don't get started till I know I actually have the bandwidth for them.
<< So I'm not quite sure where the safely valve is in this system. As far as I can see, the only dismissal is for new stuff which hasn't been started yet (the DATED lists), but what about all the stuff which you've started but haven't finished yet? How does this get weeded out? >>
I'm not really sure it's an airtight system -- and certainly not as elegant as your systems always are! But the safety valve seems to be that "negative standing out" feeling, that feeling of "no way this is getting done today" or "I really don't want to see this task again for another week".
<< I'm worrying that the way this system controls your excessive work load is by restricting new stuff to a trickle rather than continuously making everything you are doing justify itself. >>
I still have as much new incoming work as I always have -- in other words, far more than is reasonable. LOL. It just gets the attention it deserves -- AFTER my TODAY work is getting the attention IT deserves.
Recurring items, by the way, generally go directly into TOMORROW or MONDAY, and thus pass directly to TODAY, without passing through NEW. After getting actioned, I move them back to TOMORROW or MONDAY or whenever it is they need to recur.
<< If the system is called "AutoDIT" then that would suggest that there is a mechanism and it's not just left to your own judgement. I assume the αυτο is supposed to refer to the car rather than the driver! >>
Interesting point, I'll have to think about it. It has very much the same feel as AF1, so I think it's something about the system itself that is "auto", but maybe I am fooling myself. Wouldn't be the first time!
Thanks for your interesting questions!
December 28, 2011 at 14:27 |
Seraphim
Seraphim
BTW, I am leaving in a few minutes for a couple days in the snow with the children... I will probably not be responding till I get back.
Thanks!
Thanks!
December 28, 2011 at 14:30 |
Seraphim
Seraphim
Seraphim:
Ah, it all makes a lot more sense to me now.
I was thrown off by your not putting any Projects in the example, and by your use of the expression "a few DATED pages" which I took to mean "a few selected from the many DATED pages", rather than "All the DATED pages (which are only a few)". Both these led me to think that you somehow made a selection of DATED and PROJECT pages.
So, as I now understand it:
1) You circulate round _all_ your pages using the AF1 method. However only DATED pages are dismissed if you don't do anything on a page. You don't _have_ to do any tasks on any of the other pages. [I'm not clear whether moving a task to another page counts as "doing" a task.]
2) A task can be entered or re-entered on any page, except the DATED pages, which are closed to new entries. The NEW page is the default for tasks you don't wish to put elsewhere.
3) The NEW page is converted to a DATED page at the end of each day, and a new NEW page is opened.
4) The contents of a "carried forward" page (e.g. MONDAY, JANUARY) are added to the TODAY page when they are due [by clipping them together?]
5) When circulating through a page, tasks may EITHER be done (wholly or partially) OR be moved to any other page (except DATED pages) OR left on the page. However tasks may only be left on the TODAY page during the day - they must be done or moved by the end of the day.
Have I got that right?
If I have, my main worry would be the amount of choice that has to be exercised every time a task is entered or re-entered, but otherwise it sounds good.
Ah, it all makes a lot more sense to me now.
I was thrown off by your not putting any Projects in the example, and by your use of the expression "a few DATED pages" which I took to mean "a few selected from the many DATED pages", rather than "All the DATED pages (which are only a few)". Both these led me to think that you somehow made a selection of DATED and PROJECT pages.
So, as I now understand it:
1) You circulate round _all_ your pages using the AF1 method. However only DATED pages are dismissed if you don't do anything on a page. You don't _have_ to do any tasks on any of the other pages. [I'm not clear whether moving a task to another page counts as "doing" a task.]
2) A task can be entered or re-entered on any page, except the DATED pages, which are closed to new entries. The NEW page is the default for tasks you don't wish to put elsewhere.
3) The NEW page is converted to a DATED page at the end of each day, and a new NEW page is opened.
4) The contents of a "carried forward" page (e.g. MONDAY, JANUARY) are added to the TODAY page when they are due [by clipping them together?]
5) When circulating through a page, tasks may EITHER be done (wholly or partially) OR be moved to any other page (except DATED pages) OR left on the page. However tasks may only be left on the TODAY page during the day - they must be done or moved by the end of the day.
Have I got that right?
If I have, my main worry would be the amount of choice that has to be exercised every time a task is entered or re-entered, but otherwise it sounds good.
December 28, 2011 at 16:07 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
I've been following this scheme for well over a week now, and in practice it's not as complex as it appears. I concur on point 1, 2, and 3. However in practice it works like this:
As I go through a page, an item begs for my attention, and I ask myself when it should be done. The answer is usually today or tomorrow. So I put it there.
Same question after working on a Today task determines whether it stays on Today or is put away to the future. If the answer is "i don't know", the task goes to new. When it comes to scanning dated pages, often stuff will be slated for tomorrow so I can keep today focused on current projects.
As I go through a page, an item begs for my attention, and I ask myself when it should be done. The answer is usually today or tomorrow. So I put it there.
Same question after working on a Today task determines whether it stays on Today or is put away to the future. If the answer is "i don't know", the task goes to new. When it comes to scanning dated pages, often stuff will be slated for tomorrow so I can keep today focused on current projects.
December 28, 2011 at 16:42 |
Alan Baljeu
Alan Baljeu
Alan:
Are you now talking about Seraphim's scheme or your own?
If it's Seraphim's, how have you been working on it for over a week since he's only just published it today? If it's your own, what points 1, 2 and 3 do you mean?
I'm confused!
Are you now talking about Seraphim's scheme or your own?
If it's Seraphim's, how have you been working on it for over a week since he's only just published it today? If it's your own, what points 1, 2 and 3 do you mean?
I'm confused!
December 28, 2011 at 17:02 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
Serendipity, Mark! In all major details, I happen to be doing as Seraphim has written, except not embedding those project pages. I've been a while off work, but I have here pages 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, NEW, ACTIVE (today), Tomorrow, Tickler. I had older pages, but they've been dismissed.
December 28, 2011 at 18:18 |
Alan Baljeu
Alan Baljeu
Alan:
Now I've been able to understand Seraphim's description a bit better, it makes a lot of sense. In fact in many respects it is similar to what I have been working on with the Final Version. However in my opinion the Final Version gives tighter control.
Now I've been able to understand Seraphim's description a bit better, it makes a lot of sense. In fact in many respects it is similar to what I have been working on with the Final Version. However in my opinion the Final Version gives tighter control.
December 28, 2011 at 18:42 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
That is fascinating that Alan and I have come up with essentially the same system, at essentially the same time, independently. Pretty cool. :-)
December 29, 2011 at 4:32 |
Seraphim
Seraphim
Yes, Mark, I think you have got the essentials of what I was trying to say, despite my inconsistent nomenclature and lack of clarity in the processing rules. :-)
Yes, deciding where to put tasks is very free-form. This is both an advantage and a disadvantage. I like the freedom to move things where I think they belong. This actually helps the system flow quite well -- I don't have to break the rules to make an exception for a particularly unique situation. But when I am in a hurry or don't have any extra mental bandwidth, it is definitely a disadvantage -- I want it to be more automatic.
I had some thoughts on improving it, and your comments helped galvanize those thoughts. I'm thinking something like this:
- If you take action -- any small but real action, not just a triviality and not just moving something around -- then, afterwards, you may move the task whereever you want, since it's obviously an active task and you are actively engaged with it and can probably make the best decision about when it needs more action.
- If you DON'T take an action, then either (1) leave it where it is, (2) delete it, (3) dismiss it together with everything else on the same page, assuming it's a DATED page, (4) move it to another page but only in a certain direction. The pages would need to be ordered in the correct way, so that moving the task in the required direction would HELP get the task processed successfully in the end -- not just put it off indefinitely. Having some kind of rule like this would reduce the number of choices for tasks that are currently NOT getting active attention (and hence require more automation).
- Need some better rules for processing whole pages that are not getting the right attention. For example, tasks remaining on TODAY that didn't get touched that day get moved to the NEW page and thence to a DATED page. This works well because those tasks aren't getting the attention I thought they would / should and I just need to get them out of the way, and the DATED pages serve that purpose. Are there other rules of this kind for processing entire unfinished pages, that might be useful? Is there a way to standardize those rules, so they work essentially the same way across all page types?
- The rules should be consistent and uniform so they SIMPLIFY the system rather than add arbitrary restrictions, clog things up, slow things down, and create resistance to the system itself.
Hmm, I'll have to ponder this while I drive around the Flagstaff snow fields with my children...
For now, back to the snow! :-)
Yes, deciding where to put tasks is very free-form. This is both an advantage and a disadvantage. I like the freedom to move things where I think they belong. This actually helps the system flow quite well -- I don't have to break the rules to make an exception for a particularly unique situation. But when I am in a hurry or don't have any extra mental bandwidth, it is definitely a disadvantage -- I want it to be more automatic.
I had some thoughts on improving it, and your comments helped galvanize those thoughts. I'm thinking something like this:
- If you take action -- any small but real action, not just a triviality and not just moving something around -- then, afterwards, you may move the task whereever you want, since it's obviously an active task and you are actively engaged with it and can probably make the best decision about when it needs more action.
- If you DON'T take an action, then either (1) leave it where it is, (2) delete it, (3) dismiss it together with everything else on the same page, assuming it's a DATED page, (4) move it to another page but only in a certain direction. The pages would need to be ordered in the correct way, so that moving the task in the required direction would HELP get the task processed successfully in the end -- not just put it off indefinitely. Having some kind of rule like this would reduce the number of choices for tasks that are currently NOT getting active attention (and hence require more automation).
- Need some better rules for processing whole pages that are not getting the right attention. For example, tasks remaining on TODAY that didn't get touched that day get moved to the NEW page and thence to a DATED page. This works well because those tasks aren't getting the attention I thought they would / should and I just need to get them out of the way, and the DATED pages serve that purpose. Are there other rules of this kind for processing entire unfinished pages, that might be useful? Is there a way to standardize those rules, so they work essentially the same way across all page types?
- The rules should be consistent and uniform so they SIMPLIFY the system rather than add arbitrary restrictions, clog things up, slow things down, and create resistance to the system itself.
Hmm, I'll have to ponder this while I drive around the Flagstaff snow fields with my children...
For now, back to the snow! :-)
December 29, 2011 at 4:45 |
Seraphim
Seraphim
Seraphim:
<< Is there a way to standardize those rules, so they work essentially the same way across all page types? >>
Yes, there is.
But I'm afraid you're going to have to wait until I publish the Final Version to find out what it is!
<< Is there a way to standardize those rules, so they work essentially the same way across all page types? >>
Yes, there is.
But I'm afraid you're going to have to wait until I publish the Final Version to find out what it is!
December 29, 2011 at 8:27 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
Mental shortcuts I employ ( I don't think about these things, I just do them):
New tasks nearly always go to NEW.
Tasks worked on nearly always go TODAY.
Standout tasks I don't work on nearly always go to TOMORROW.
TODAY tasks stay after they are worked on, but later I may decide to move a worked task forward to later.
Such shortcuts don't limit me, as I can change the decision later if it stands out. But on the whole:
TODAY generally has what I yesterday designated TOMORROW, plus a few others.
TOMORROW has things I didn't finish today plus a few new items.
NEW has things I added today but didn't start, plus things dropped yesterday.
One extra page, DAILY, has things I do each day. This keeps the clutter out of today/tomorrow pages.
New tasks nearly always go to NEW.
Tasks worked on nearly always go TODAY.
Standout tasks I don't work on nearly always go to TOMORROW.
TODAY tasks stay after they are worked on, but later I may decide to move a worked task forward to later.
Such shortcuts don't limit me, as I can change the decision later if it stands out. But on the whole:
TODAY generally has what I yesterday designated TOMORROW, plus a few others.
TOMORROW has things I didn't finish today plus a few new items.
NEW has things I added today but didn't start, plus things dropped yesterday.
One extra page, DAILY, has things I do each day. This keeps the clutter out of today/tomorrow pages.
December 29, 2011 at 13:37 |
Alan Baljeu
Alan Baljeu
Hi Seraphim, Hi Alan,
I made a try of Seraphim system. On paper. I took a simple paper folder and just did it.
The control of my stuff is much better. I made a change a simple sheet call "SUBJECT o the way" Where I put list of projects and where I am about these project I started but which are unfinished.
I like the way it goes. It is much better than AF. Less messy. IT has the same effect on the powerful stand out system.
So far, both of you has arrived at nearly the same system.
I think we got something (at last) it reminds mme a kind of AF where stuff was dissociated on different sheets of paper, anyway...
I mad a try with digital. It loosed it magic... I am sure we could easily do it with task paper even with OF or toodledoo or evernote or watever.
One thing is sure. Still I quit my digital project folders and AF list and put all that stuff on paper all is much better (YES I did it AGAIN LOL) it works perfectly. I admire people who does it digital but I am just un able to do it I definitively loose my feeling about things and worst it kills and freeze my intuition. But when I have it on paper and when I can write my list with mistakes, crosses, draw, heuristic, different colors or watever which is the expression of life I feel quiet and peaceful.
It reminds me a sentence from MARK H MCKORMACK who said the better list you have is the one at the end of the day which is completely messy and crossed. He was right !
I made a try of Seraphim system. On paper. I took a simple paper folder and just did it.
The control of my stuff is much better. I made a change a simple sheet call "SUBJECT o the way" Where I put list of projects and where I am about these project I started but which are unfinished.
I like the way it goes. It is much better than AF. Less messy. IT has the same effect on the powerful stand out system.
So far, both of you has arrived at nearly the same system.
I think we got something (at last) it reminds mme a kind of AF where stuff was dissociated on different sheets of paper, anyway...
I mad a try with digital. It loosed it magic... I am sure we could easily do it with task paper even with OF or toodledoo or evernote or watever.
One thing is sure. Still I quit my digital project folders and AF list and put all that stuff on paper all is much better (YES I did it AGAIN LOL) it works perfectly. I admire people who does it digital but I am just un able to do it I definitively loose my feeling about things and worst it kills and freeze my intuition. But when I have it on paper and when I can write my list with mistakes, crosses, draw, heuristic, different colors or watever which is the expression of life I feel quiet and peaceful.
It reminds me a sentence from MARK H MCKORMACK who said the better list you have is the one at the end of the day which is completely messy and crossed. He was right !
December 29, 2011 at 15:23 |
FocusGuy.
FocusGuy.
Finally a very interesting new topic that may be getting close to cracking the secrets of the famed Final Version! I'm intrigued by this new approach, but it seems a bit complicated.
If I understand what Seraphim is doing, he essentially has three main "buckets" (lists) into which to place tasks – Today, Tomorrow, and Someday – plus a Backlog bucket and possible side list(s) of Projects. The Backlog is the collection of "DATED" pages, which are now closed lists, but could just as well be combined into one closed Backlog list (which is reopened and appended to at the end of each day, if necessary). The Someday list ("NEW") is for tasks that don't have an obvious importance, urgency, or scheduled start time. I like the idea of a manageable Today list (a la DIT), and the flexibility to decide midday to lighten the load by deleting or moving tasks. But I'm having a bit of difficulty thinking about how this might work using a bound notebook.
Please correct my interpretation if I've got it wrong.
If I understand what Seraphim is doing, he essentially has three main "buckets" (lists) into which to place tasks – Today, Tomorrow, and Someday – plus a Backlog bucket and possible side list(s) of Projects. The Backlog is the collection of "DATED" pages, which are now closed lists, but could just as well be combined into one closed Backlog list (which is reopened and appended to at the end of each day, if necessary). The Someday list ("NEW") is for tasks that don't have an obvious importance, urgency, or scheduled start time. I like the idea of a manageable Today list (a la DIT), and the flexibility to decide midday to lighten the load by deleting or moving tasks. But I'm having a bit of difficulty thinking about how this might work using a bound notebook.
Please correct my interpretation if I've got it wrong.
December 29, 2011 at 19:47 |
ubi
ubi
One small warning Jupiter: The system as designed makes a productive day seem easy, but there is danger of things being forgotten, falling behind, or growing to overwhelm you. I mean those DATED pages. Be aggressive to eliminate excessive work from these by deleting tasks or dismissing pages. Seraphim apparently deletes them in batches when this happens. That scares me a bit, but something like that is needed.
December 29, 2011 at 20:32 |
Alan Baljeu
Alan Baljeu
ubi:
<<The Backlog is the collection of "DATED" pages, which are now closed lists, but could just as well be combined into one closed Backlog list (which is reopened and appended to at the end of each day, if necessary).>>
No, that would ruin the AF1-style processing where pages get dismissed when nothing stands out.
<<The Backlog is the collection of "DATED" pages, which are now closed lists, but could just as well be combined into one closed Backlog list (which is reopened and appended to at the end of each day, if necessary).>>
No, that would ruin the AF1-style processing where pages get dismissed when nothing stands out.
December 29, 2011 at 20:35 |
Alan Baljeu
Alan Baljeu
A paper version of the process: (Use a notebook with facing pages, or two columns.)
Write NEW on the left, and TODAY on the right. Write TOMORROW on the right of the next page.
Write any tasks you can think of under NEW. (Tasks you already have on previous pages, date those pages.)
Follow Seraphim's rules for going through pages. Basically it's AF1, but there are more open pages. Open pages don't require any work done, don't get dismissed, and you can enter a task on any open page.
Frequently you will take a task, work some, and if it's unfinished rewrite it under TODAY or TOMORROW. Once you have a bunch of TODAY tasks, you may stay there a while.
By the end of the day, you should have worked on and cleared everything out of TODAY, rewriting some to TOMORROW or a future page if you *plan* to continue then. If you don't know when you'll do it, put it in NEW.
At the end of the day cross out the word TODAY and write today's date. Cross out NEW. Next page cross out TOMORROW and write TODAY. Write NEW on the other page.
Write NEW on the left, and TODAY on the right. Write TOMORROW on the right of the next page.
Write any tasks you can think of under NEW. (Tasks you already have on previous pages, date those pages.)
Follow Seraphim's rules for going through pages. Basically it's AF1, but there are more open pages. Open pages don't require any work done, don't get dismissed, and you can enter a task on any open page.
Frequently you will take a task, work some, and if it's unfinished rewrite it under TODAY or TOMORROW. Once you have a bunch of TODAY tasks, you may stay there a while.
By the end of the day, you should have worked on and cleared everything out of TODAY, rewriting some to TOMORROW or a future page if you *plan* to continue then. If you don't know when you'll do it, put it in NEW.
At the end of the day cross out the word TODAY and write today's date. Cross out NEW. Next page cross out TOMORROW and write TODAY. Write NEW on the other page.
December 29, 2011 at 20:52 |
Alan Baljeu
Alan Baljeu
Great thread and great ideas. Seraphim and Alan - well done!
Alan - Your paper process is brilliant!!!
<<At the end of the day cross out the word TODAY and write today's date. Cross out NEW. Next page cross out TOMORROW and write TODAY. Write NEW on the other page.>>
Alan - Your paper process is brilliant!!!
<<At the end of the day cross out the word TODAY and write today's date. Cross out NEW. Next page cross out TOMORROW and write TODAY. Write NEW on the other page.>>
December 29, 2011 at 22:17 |
Scott Hutchins
Scott Hutchins
Alan,
Thanks for the clarification & correction. I'm a little confused, because if I start a new bound notebook as you suggest above, the first page is NEW which is logically older than TODAY (p. 2) & TOMORROW (p. 4). At the end of the first day, I might still have some unactioned tasks on both of the first two pages, so would I just put today's date on both pp. 1 & 2 and consider them closed lists by drawing a line at the bottom? Or do all the NEW (odd) pages serve as possibly empty placeholders (open lists) for further task entry, until they are filled? If the latter, why reserve a new NEW p. 3, if I didn't fill up p. 1 yet? Is there some special reason to keep the TODAY-TOMORROW pages even?
Sorry that I'm still not getting it fully. . .
Thanks for the clarification & correction. I'm a little confused, because if I start a new bound notebook as you suggest above, the first page is NEW which is logically older than TODAY (p. 2) & TOMORROW (p. 4). At the end of the first day, I might still have some unactioned tasks on both of the first two pages, so would I just put today's date on both pp. 1 & 2 and consider them closed lists by drawing a line at the bottom? Or do all the NEW (odd) pages serve as possibly empty placeholders (open lists) for further task entry, until they are filled? If the latter, why reserve a new NEW p. 3, if I didn't fill up p. 1 yet? Is there some special reason to keep the TODAY-TOMORROW pages even?
Sorry that I'm still not getting it fully. . .
December 29, 2011 at 22:45 |
ubi
ubi
+JMJ+
@Alan: Your current system is basically an expansion of what you described in here, http://www.markforster.net/forum/post/1677525#item1678260 , right?
Great system, Alan and Seraphim!
The system I am using, the DWM2 with tweaks, has some of the features you guys have but much messier ^___^ It is basically the new/today/tomorrow/someday/projects/contexts you guys have but all in one list and a separate calendar instead of having columns and different papers.
http://www.markforster.net/forum/post/1677525
It may be messy, but it is simpler I think, and I love it! Have been using it for two months now.
Enjoy the snow Seraphim!
And speaking of which, has anyone tried Googling "Let it snow"? ^___^
@Alan: Your current system is basically an expansion of what you described in here, http://www.markforster.net/forum/post/1677525#item1678260 , right?
Great system, Alan and Seraphim!
The system I am using, the DWM2 with tweaks, has some of the features you guys have but much messier ^___^ It is basically the new/today/tomorrow/someday/projects/contexts you guys have but all in one list and a separate calendar instead of having columns and different papers.
http://www.markforster.net/forum/post/1677525
It may be messy, but it is simpler I think, and I love it! Have been using it for two months now.
Enjoy the snow Seraphim!
And speaking of which, has anyone tried Googling "Let it snow"? ^___^
December 29, 2011 at 22:50 |
nuntym
nuntym
+JMJ+
And oh yes, I propose a shorter name for Seraphim and Alan's system: "AuDIT" (for Auto-DIT). Kinda has a nice ring to it ^___^
And oh yes, I propose a shorter name for Seraphim and Alan's system: "AuDIT" (for Auto-DIT). Kinda has a nice ring to it ^___^
December 29, 2011 at 22:59 |
nuntym
nuntym
ubi and others:
<<Finally a very interesting new topic that may be getting close to cracking the secrets of the famed Final Version! >>
Well, maybe y'all have got about one third of the way towards the Final Version, which is quite a feat since I have been working on it more or less full time for months (it feels like years)..
The Final Version doesn't suffer from any of the problems identified by Seraphim, nor does it need a loose-leaf book, nor is there a danger of things being forgotten, falling behind, or growing to overwhelm you.
<<Finally a very interesting new topic that may be getting close to cracking the secrets of the famed Final Version! >>
Well, maybe y'all have got about one third of the way towards the Final Version, which is quite a feat since I have been working on it more or less full time for months (it feels like years)..
The Final Version doesn't suffer from any of the problems identified by Seraphim, nor does it need a loose-leaf book, nor is there a danger of things being forgotten, falling behind, or growing to overwhelm you.
December 29, 2011 at 23:01 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
I think I get the general idea now. In the spirit of a more FreeForm (but bound) notebook, how about the following way to start a new notebook?
1. Reserve p. 1 for Index/ToC.
2. TODAY on p. 2.
3. TOMORROW on p. 3.
4. NEW on p. 4.
5. Transfer tasks, project lists, etc. from earlier notebook, or just "empty your head" into TODAY, TOMORROW, NEW, as seems appropriate.
6. Cycle through the task pages AF1-style, with all being open lists at first, until NEW is filled, at which point it is retitled with today's DATE, and a new NEW page is added. Unfinished tasks may be reentered in TODAY, TOMORROW, or NEW, as seems appropriate.
7. The goal is to complete all tasks on TODAY page, which can be managed by forcing a transfer of uncompleted tasks to TOMORROW or NEW at end of the day.
8. There is an implicit assumption that pages are long enough that TODAY & TOMORROW never fill up, right?
9. Next day, retitle TOMORROW->TODAY and add a new TOMORROW page.
10. Keep Index/ToC page corrected and use it to manage page-cycle order TODAY, TOMORROW, DATEDs (Backlog), NEW.
As I think more about this, it's really no different than AF1 with two special pages for TODAY and TOMORROW. One weak point I see is that there will be a frequent need to make a 3-way decision on where to (re)enter a task. Another weakness is that you may end up with a lot of half-empty pages. Perhaps the better sense of a day's work from this approach is worth the trade-off.
1. Reserve p. 1 for Index/ToC.
2. TODAY on p. 2.
3. TOMORROW on p. 3.
4. NEW on p. 4.
5. Transfer tasks, project lists, etc. from earlier notebook, or just "empty your head" into TODAY, TOMORROW, NEW, as seems appropriate.
6. Cycle through the task pages AF1-style, with all being open lists at first, until NEW is filled, at which point it is retitled with today's DATE, and a new NEW page is added. Unfinished tasks may be reentered in TODAY, TOMORROW, or NEW, as seems appropriate.
7. The goal is to complete all tasks on TODAY page, which can be managed by forcing a transfer of uncompleted tasks to TOMORROW or NEW at end of the day.
8. There is an implicit assumption that pages are long enough that TODAY & TOMORROW never fill up, right?
9. Next day, retitle TOMORROW->TODAY and add a new TOMORROW page.
10. Keep Index/ToC page corrected and use it to manage page-cycle order TODAY, TOMORROW, DATEDs (Backlog), NEW.
As I think more about this, it's really no different than AF1 with two special pages for TODAY and TOMORROW. One weak point I see is that there will be a frequent need to make a 3-way decision on where to (re)enter a task. Another weakness is that you may end up with a lot of half-empty pages. Perhaps the better sense of a day's work from this approach is worth the trade-off.
December 29, 2011 at 23:12 |
ubi
ubi
December 29, 2011 at 23:14 |
nuntym
nuntym
Just for the sake of curioisty, I have decided to set this new system as Seraphim describes it on "Things" on my Ipad. Usually I'm a paper based guy because I can't get any of the systems to get the right feel when they are electronic, but I"m giving it a shot with this system. Here's how it works, in the order that Seraphim processes his system:
a) Tomorrow and Future: I created 3 "areas" in things - tomorrow, next week, and next month. The list is populated by considering the various tasks as I work the system. It's a simple keystroke in things to move a task into one of the areas, wherevery they come from. Nothing wrong with creating more "areas" as needed, if they are needed.
b) Today -- there is a specific category in things for "today," they are just marked with a yellow star. Very easy.
c) New: I just use the "Things" inbox
d) Project pages: I use the "project" section and I just create projects as I need them, completely free-form. I have one for "Waiting for" and one for my secretary and a bunch of other actual projects
e) Dated pages: another project page in things, titled by the appropriate date, a new project for each date. These pages are populated from the inbox at the end of the day or the beginning of the next day.
There it is. I don't bother with tags, things get too complicated. You get a nice overview from the "next actions" section as well, so you can always see where you are.
I'll let you know how it works.
a) Tomorrow and Future: I created 3 "areas" in things - tomorrow, next week, and next month. The list is populated by considering the various tasks as I work the system. It's a simple keystroke in things to move a task into one of the areas, wherevery they come from. Nothing wrong with creating more "areas" as needed, if they are needed.
b) Today -- there is a specific category in things for "today," they are just marked with a yellow star. Very easy.
c) New: I just use the "Things" inbox
d) Project pages: I use the "project" section and I just create projects as I need them, completely free-form. I have one for "Waiting for" and one for my secretary and a bunch of other actual projects
e) Dated pages: another project page in things, titled by the appropriate date, a new project for each date. These pages are populated from the inbox at the end of the day or the beginning of the next day.
There it is. I don't bother with tags, things get too complicated. You get a nice overview from the "next actions" section as well, so you can always see where you are.
I'll let you know how it works.
December 30, 2011 at 1:34 |
Paul MacNeil
Paul MacNeil
Maybe "NEW" is the wrong word for the page that Alan and I have been calling "NEW".
Maybe a better word is "MISC" or "SOMEDAY" or "HMMM".
"NEW" is misleading because it's not only for capturing new items -- it's also the place to put items when you don't know what else to do with them.
Like I said in the first post on this thread, the nomenclature isn't really polished or precise yet. I do find it interesting that Alan has apparently arrived at the same nomenclature that I did, which suggests our systems evolved in a similar way to arrive at where we are today.
Maybe a better word is "MISC" or "SOMEDAY" or "HMMM".
"NEW" is misleading because it's not only for capturing new items -- it's also the place to put items when you don't know what else to do with them.
Like I said in the first post on this thread, the nomenclature isn't really polished or precise yet. I do find it interesting that Alan has apparently arrived at the same nomenclature that I did, which suggests our systems evolved in a similar way to arrive at where we are today.
December 30, 2011 at 3:48 |
Seraphim
Seraphim
Seraphim wrote:
<< Is there a way to standardize those rules, so they work essentially the same way across all page types? >>
Mark wrote:
<< Yes, there is. But I'm afraid you're going to have to wait until I publish the Final Version to find out what it is! >>
Looking forward to it!!
<< The Final Version doesn't suffer from any of the problems identified by Seraphim, nor does it need a loose-leaf book, nor is there a danger of things being forgotten, falling behind, or growing to overwhelm you. >>
Thanks Mark. While I would honestly never compare my modest efforts at self-organization to your elegant systems, I do need to say that I haven't found this "AutoDIT" system to suffer from "things being forgotten, falling behind, or growing to overwhelm you." Alan did mention those dangers, but personally I haven't seen them. Maybe I have just learned that I need to dismiss things very aggressively just to survive. LOL
And Alan's paper-based version doesn't require a loose-leaf notebook.
In any case, I am very much looking forward to FV!!
<< Is there a way to standardize those rules, so they work essentially the same way across all page types? >>
Mark wrote:
<< Yes, there is. But I'm afraid you're going to have to wait until I publish the Final Version to find out what it is! >>
Looking forward to it!!
<< The Final Version doesn't suffer from any of the problems identified by Seraphim, nor does it need a loose-leaf book, nor is there a danger of things being forgotten, falling behind, or growing to overwhelm you. >>
Thanks Mark. While I would honestly never compare my modest efforts at self-organization to your elegant systems, I do need to say that I haven't found this "AutoDIT" system to suffer from "things being forgotten, falling behind, or growing to overwhelm you." Alan did mention those dangers, but personally I haven't seen them. Maybe I have just learned that I need to dismiss things very aggressively just to survive. LOL
And Alan's paper-based version doesn't require a loose-leaf notebook.
In any case, I am very much looking forward to FV!!
December 30, 2011 at 4:35 |
Seraphim
Seraphim
Alan Baljeu wrote:
<< ... there is danger of things being forgotten, falling behind, or growing to overwhelm you. I mean those DATED pages. Be aggressive to eliminate excessive work from these by deleting tasks or dismissing pages. Seraphim apparently deletes them in batches when this happens. That scares me a bit, but something like that is needed. >>
Hmm, interesting.
This reminds me of the way I manage certain files on my PC. I have a "tmp" folder where I keep just about all Internet downloads, plus every possible kind of scratch file. My rule is that anything in that folder can be deleted at just about any time -- for example, if I need to free up disk space. If I don't want to take that risk, then I move the file to "My Documents" or something.
I treat the NEW and DATED pages in this "AutoDIT" method the same way. If I dismissed ALL the NEW and DATED pages, it would probably cause some angst, and maybe a few real problems for me. But I'd get over it. Important work with real deadlines might have a short stay in NEW to give it some time to percolate, but I generally move that stuff very quickly to TOMORROW or TODAY or MONDAY. Even if a task like that ended up on a DATED page, it wouldn't stay there more than a few days. (If it DOES stay longer than a few days, that's a sign it isn't as important as I originally thought it was.)
I suppose this is why it doesn't bother me so much to do the mass dismissal of the dated pages - especially the oldest ones.
<< ... there is danger of things being forgotten, falling behind, or growing to overwhelm you. I mean those DATED pages. Be aggressive to eliminate excessive work from these by deleting tasks or dismissing pages. Seraphim apparently deletes them in batches when this happens. That scares me a bit, but something like that is needed. >>
Hmm, interesting.
This reminds me of the way I manage certain files on my PC. I have a "tmp" folder where I keep just about all Internet downloads, plus every possible kind of scratch file. My rule is that anything in that folder can be deleted at just about any time -- for example, if I need to free up disk space. If I don't want to take that risk, then I move the file to "My Documents" or something.
I treat the NEW and DATED pages in this "AutoDIT" method the same way. If I dismissed ALL the NEW and DATED pages, it would probably cause some angst, and maybe a few real problems for me. But I'd get over it. Important work with real deadlines might have a short stay in NEW to give it some time to percolate, but I generally move that stuff very quickly to TOMORROW or TODAY or MONDAY. Even if a task like that ended up on a DATED page, it wouldn't stay there more than a few days. (If it DOES stay longer than a few days, that's a sign it isn't as important as I originally thought it was.)
I suppose this is why it doesn't bother me so much to do the mass dismissal of the dated pages - especially the oldest ones.
December 30, 2011 at 4:36 |
Seraphim
Seraphim
Alan - I love your paper version - it is simple and elegant, and it's especially nice that it uses a bound notebook! I really don't like loose-leaf.
This could even work well with a 1-day-per-spread dated journal (or "diary" in Old-World-speak.)
Just to clarify -- at the end of the day, all items in NEW, and all remaining items in TODAY, together form a new DATED page -- is that correct?
This could even work well with a 1-day-per-spread dated journal (or "diary" in Old-World-speak.)
Just to clarify -- at the end of the day, all items in NEW, and all remaining items in TODAY, together form a new DATED page -- is that correct?
December 30, 2011 at 4:36 |
Seraphim
Seraphim
ubi wrote:
<< Finally a very interesting new topic that may be getting close to cracking the secrets of the famed Final Version! >>
While I am very pleased that Mark has said this new system has many similarities to Final Version, I don't think we can say we are very close. Only Mark can tell... and he says we're only 1/3 of the way there. :-)
<< If I understand what Seraphim is doing, he essentially has three main "buckets" (lists) into which to place tasks – Today, Tomorrow, and Someday – plus a Backlog bucket and possible side list(s) of Projects. >>
I think Alan's summary is better -- it's like AF1 but with several open pages: TODAY, TOMORROW, NEW.
<< The Backlog is the collection of "DATED" pages, which are now closed lists, but could just as well be combined into one closed Backlog list (which is reopened and appended to at the end of each day, if necessary). >>
No, each of these is treated like an AF1 page. This is especially important for the sake of dismissal. If you read through a whole page and take no action, the page is dismissed.
<< The Someday list ("NEW") is for tasks that don't have an obvious importance, urgency, or scheduled start time. >>
I like the Someday name for all the "DATED" pages as well.
<< I like the idea of a manageable Today list (a la DIT), and the flexibility to decide midday to lighten the load by deleting or moving tasks. But I'm having a bit of difficulty thinking about how this might work using a bound notebook. >>
I think Alan's interpretation is fantastic, particularly in that it can be done with a regular bound notebook, not requiring loose-leaf.
<< I think I get the general idea now. In the spirit of a more FreeForm (but bound) notebook, how about the following way to start a new notebook? >>
You describe my actual practice very closely here. I like this summary very much.
However, I think Alan's notebook-based approach might require less page-flipping if you are actually doing this on paper.
<< 7. The goal is to complete all tasks on TODAY page, which can be managed by forcing a transfer of uncompleted tasks to TOMORROW or NEW at end of the day. >>
I think it's generally better to let unactioned tasks go to NEW, instead of moving them to TOMORROW. Otherwise you can get in the habit of infinitely deferring items to TOMORROW. In general, I move unactioned items to TOMORROW only when...
(1) I cannot start on the action until tomorrow for reasons outside of my control, for example, a particular person or resource is not available today; or
(2) I have way too much on my plate today, so I make a conscious evaluation of my day's priorities, and move stuff in a couple big sweeps to TOMORROW, MONDAY, or NEW -- leaving for TODAY only what I think I can reasonable accomplish. Thankfully, since using this system with the TODAY focus, those overloaded days are becoming fewer and fewer.
<< 8. There is an implicit assumption that pages are long enough that TODAY & TOMORROW never fill up, right? >>
I use OneNote, so yes, the pages can never fill up. I usually start the day with 30 to 50 items on my TODAY page. That wouldn't fit in one column of a normal notebook -- especially if you cross out and re-enter tasks as you work on them.
On paper, you might want to draw a line down the middle of the page to double the number of possible entries.
<< One weak point I see is that there will be a frequent need to make a 3-way decision on where to (re)enter a task. >>
This is a weakness because it can lead to indecision and that can create resistance to the system as a whole.
But too much restriction on choices can also create resistance. For me, I really like the freedom to move things where I want them -- it helps the system flow.
I've been trying to think of some ways around this -- I will try out some ideas over the next week or so, and let you know if I find anything that helps.
<< Another weakness is that you may end up with a lot of half-empty pages. >>
Yes, this might reduce the number of times you are exposed to a task before being faced with dismissal, compared to AF1. But it hasn't bothered me much. It still retains the most important feature of an AF1 page -- it's a closed list.
<< Perhaps the better sense of a day's work from this approach is worth the trade-off. >>
So far, that's my feeling.
<< Finally a very interesting new topic that may be getting close to cracking the secrets of the famed Final Version! >>
While I am very pleased that Mark has said this new system has many similarities to Final Version, I don't think we can say we are very close. Only Mark can tell... and he says we're only 1/3 of the way there. :-)
<< If I understand what Seraphim is doing, he essentially has three main "buckets" (lists) into which to place tasks – Today, Tomorrow, and Someday – plus a Backlog bucket and possible side list(s) of Projects. >>
I think Alan's summary is better -- it's like AF1 but with several open pages: TODAY, TOMORROW, NEW.
<< The Backlog is the collection of "DATED" pages, which are now closed lists, but could just as well be combined into one closed Backlog list (which is reopened and appended to at the end of each day, if necessary). >>
No, each of these is treated like an AF1 page. This is especially important for the sake of dismissal. If you read through a whole page and take no action, the page is dismissed.
<< The Someday list ("NEW") is for tasks that don't have an obvious importance, urgency, or scheduled start time. >>
I like the Someday name for all the "DATED" pages as well.
<< I like the idea of a manageable Today list (a la DIT), and the flexibility to decide midday to lighten the load by deleting or moving tasks. But I'm having a bit of difficulty thinking about how this might work using a bound notebook. >>
I think Alan's interpretation is fantastic, particularly in that it can be done with a regular bound notebook, not requiring loose-leaf.
<< I think I get the general idea now. In the spirit of a more FreeForm (but bound) notebook, how about the following way to start a new notebook? >>
You describe my actual practice very closely here. I like this summary very much.
However, I think Alan's notebook-based approach might require less page-flipping if you are actually doing this on paper.
<< 7. The goal is to complete all tasks on TODAY page, which can be managed by forcing a transfer of uncompleted tasks to TOMORROW or NEW at end of the day. >>
I think it's generally better to let unactioned tasks go to NEW, instead of moving them to TOMORROW. Otherwise you can get in the habit of infinitely deferring items to TOMORROW. In general, I move unactioned items to TOMORROW only when...
(1) I cannot start on the action until tomorrow for reasons outside of my control, for example, a particular person or resource is not available today; or
(2) I have way too much on my plate today, so I make a conscious evaluation of my day's priorities, and move stuff in a couple big sweeps to TOMORROW, MONDAY, or NEW -- leaving for TODAY only what I think I can reasonable accomplish. Thankfully, since using this system with the TODAY focus, those overloaded days are becoming fewer and fewer.
<< 8. There is an implicit assumption that pages are long enough that TODAY & TOMORROW never fill up, right? >>
I use OneNote, so yes, the pages can never fill up. I usually start the day with 30 to 50 items on my TODAY page. That wouldn't fit in one column of a normal notebook -- especially if you cross out and re-enter tasks as you work on them.
On paper, you might want to draw a line down the middle of the page to double the number of possible entries.
<< One weak point I see is that there will be a frequent need to make a 3-way decision on where to (re)enter a task. >>
This is a weakness because it can lead to indecision and that can create resistance to the system as a whole.
But too much restriction on choices can also create resistance. For me, I really like the freedom to move things where I want them -- it helps the system flow.
I've been trying to think of some ways around this -- I will try out some ideas over the next week or so, and let you know if I find anything that helps.
<< Another weakness is that you may end up with a lot of half-empty pages. >>
Yes, this might reduce the number of times you are exposed to a task before being faced with dismissal, compared to AF1. But it hasn't bothered me much. It still retains the most important feature of an AF1 page -- it's a closed list.
<< Perhaps the better sense of a day's work from this approach is worth the trade-off. >>
So far, that's my feeling.
December 30, 2011 at 4:36 |
Seraphim
Seraphim
nuntym wrote:
<< Enjoy the snow Seraphim! >>
Thanks, we had a great time! A few too many bumps and crashes -- the sledding hills were VERY crowded -- but very enjoyable nonetheless.
<< And speaking of which, has anyone tried Googling "Let it snow"? >>
Fun, thanks! :-)
<< Enjoy the snow Seraphim! >>
Thanks, we had a great time! A few too many bumps and crashes -- the sledding hills were VERY crowded -- but very enjoyable nonetheless.
<< And speaking of which, has anyone tried Googling "Let it snow"? >>
Fun, thanks! :-)
December 30, 2011 at 4:37 |
Seraphim
Seraphim
Paul MacNeil wrote:
<< Just for the sake of curioisty, I have decided to set this new system as Seraphim describes it on "Things" on my Ipad. >>
I'd love to hear how this works out for you!
<< Just for the sake of curioisty, I have decided to set this new system as Seraphim describes it on "Things" on my Ipad. >>
I'd love to hear how this works out for you!
December 30, 2011 at 4:37 |
Seraphim
Seraphim
Confession: I had been undecided exactly what rules to follow, prior to this thread being written. I also have not used the Tomorrow list as extensively as Seraphim reports. I suspect doing this will improve my experience relative to the dangers I reported above. Specifically, important pressing stuff would be sent to future pages (eg TOMORROW) rather than fall into past pages by default.
December 30, 2011 at 6:47 |
Alan Baljeu
Alan Baljeu
@Ubi and alan the idea of the note book is nice but for me un appropriate. I noticed I lose a lot of paper and pages because the was not enough page on certain pages. On an other way I had to many on others (i.e. NEW). I solved the problem using a simple folder and dropping all my pages in it. I care not to loose the page.
About dismissing and the cleaning of the system I agree with you Alan about the increasment of tasks and left under tasks. For avoiding left under project and task I use a GTD project list with the advancement in front (I summarize where I am and where I go)
For cleaning I don't hesitate to cross stuff.
Here is my actual organization I call "My Seraphym system"
So on my desk I always have theses lists
1. Todays list first.
2 Then Tomorrow list
3. subjects on the way
4. new pages
5 project list
And I have my paper note book for taking notes about what happen.
future lists are in my folder.
about the next day I do as you said. Tomorrow is crossed and name today at the end of the day. I review the list, cross things, reports others, and put at the top 1 to 3 project names I intend to do tomorrow. I noticed That reading my project list in the morning made me change my priorities.
About dismissing I dismiss some but lot of tasks don't stay a long time dismissed. The are more often crossed.
The system is nice. Treated in the AF way it is OK for the moment.
About dismissing and the cleaning of the system I agree with you Alan about the increasment of tasks and left under tasks. For avoiding left under project and task I use a GTD project list with the advancement in front (I summarize where I am and where I go)
For cleaning I don't hesitate to cross stuff.
Here is my actual organization I call "My Seraphym system"
So on my desk I always have theses lists
1. Todays list first.
2 Then Tomorrow list
3. subjects on the way
4. new pages
5 project list
And I have my paper note book for taking notes about what happen.
future lists are in my folder.
about the next day I do as you said. Tomorrow is crossed and name today at the end of the day. I review the list, cross things, reports others, and put at the top 1 to 3 project names I intend to do tomorrow. I noticed That reading my project list in the morning made me change my priorities.
About dismissing I dismiss some but lot of tasks don't stay a long time dismissed. The are more often crossed.
The system is nice. Treated in the AF way it is OK for the moment.
December 30, 2011 at 8:19 |
FocusGuy.
FocusGuy.
This is good stuff, especially after the new-found freedom of the Free-Form idea took hold. It brings up a lot of practical stuff and makes for some nice adjustments.
I did not have the benefit of reading the latest comments before writing this (after mid-day 29.12.11).
The "negative stand-out" discussion by Seraphim is good. As far as "safety valve" is concerned, to help prevent our (sometimes terrible) "own-judgment" mechanism from mucking up our system, I think that with a system like Seraphim’s, I agree that we have to REALLY be aggressive in avoiding too many "wish" items on the TODAY and other daily lists (and even avoiding bloating the project lists).
So, I try to put items on the AF pages as much as possible (Seraphim’s NEW >> DATED) to reap the benefits of AF (close, move, double-read), instead of just a place to put things because "we don't know what else to do with them".
Instead of using Seraphim's TODAY, TOMOROW, TUESDAY, FRIDAY, etc., I am going to stick with using seven daily tabs (Mon.-Sunday) and a bookmark. (If the daily tabs don't work, I will ditch them.)
I will add a place for months, and I will put any contextual lists into PROJECTS (like Seraphim showed in his example with "Errands" and "Discuss with A"). I will also embed PROJECTS and move them ahead of DATED/AF.
So, my notebook order is now:
(1) One-Task/5-Minute
------------------------
This is a personal thing; I tape an index card or write down the "one task" that I should be doing "right now". I want to force myself into spending at least five minutes with this task. (It is hard to come up with excuses when I do this.)
On the iPad, there's a "one index card at a time" app called "Next Thing" by http://pocketronic.com/ . One-item-at-a-time might be unwieldy for some, but I have to do what works (and, of course, it's not for trivial tasks).
------------------------
(2) Monthly;
(a record of main events accomplished per month also goes here - as an overview, and to not forget major projects started…)
(3) Daily Tabs (includes a Post-it on TODAY);
(4) NEW (was "Capture", but now embedded, and these NEWS turn into DATED/AF as per Seraphim) (so simple!);
(I like the name "NEW" because it is for "new" things and it will turn into a "new" AF page.) (I do not like the word "Capture" as it sounds too extraneous and I use to ignore them for days at a time.)
(5) PROJECTS; and
(6) DATED/AF
(7) Routine / Checklist (this is just for reference and sometimes eliminates the need to write an item down on the other pages)
I also like the Current Project List (CPL) like Jupiter discusses. It is a great way to summarise each project using very little real estate. If you are afraid to look at all those projects in your digital task app because there are so many or so uncomfortable, this forces you to list the important ones. You can quickly remember previous projects pending, make notes about urgency, make projects inactive, or add any other relevant comment, symbol or highlight you feel like adding.
For me, to keep control, I have to look at absolutely everything as dismissible or expugnable; even TODAY stuff. This mentality is the only way I can keep a system from "turning on me" because I tend to be overzealous.
Seraphim's clear examples, like,
<<- 12/26 <<< created when the NEW page filled up on 12/26>>
are also a reminder for me that I can keep things orderly if I just put a little effort into it. Thanks.
I still like Alan's backlog discussions where you have a transition point and a bookmark; basically, a divide between "current" (or "semi-current"), and "non-current". So, I make stale AF pages backlog pages. I also try to use this approach for papers (phone notes, project notes, print-outs, to-be-scanned), emails and whatnot.
I did not have the benefit of reading the latest comments before writing this (after mid-day 29.12.11).
The "negative stand-out" discussion by Seraphim is good. As far as "safety valve" is concerned, to help prevent our (sometimes terrible) "own-judgment" mechanism from mucking up our system, I think that with a system like Seraphim’s, I agree that we have to REALLY be aggressive in avoiding too many "wish" items on the TODAY and other daily lists (and even avoiding bloating the project lists).
So, I try to put items on the AF pages as much as possible (Seraphim’s NEW >> DATED) to reap the benefits of AF (close, move, double-read), instead of just a place to put things because "we don't know what else to do with them".
Instead of using Seraphim's TODAY, TOMOROW, TUESDAY, FRIDAY, etc., I am going to stick with using seven daily tabs (Mon.-Sunday) and a bookmark. (If the daily tabs don't work, I will ditch them.)
I will add a place for months, and I will put any contextual lists into PROJECTS (like Seraphim showed in his example with "Errands" and "Discuss with A"). I will also embed PROJECTS and move them ahead of DATED/AF.
So, my notebook order is now:
(1) One-Task/5-Minute
------------------------
This is a personal thing; I tape an index card or write down the "one task" that I should be doing "right now". I want to force myself into spending at least five minutes with this task. (It is hard to come up with excuses when I do this.)
On the iPad, there's a "one index card at a time" app called "Next Thing" by http://pocketronic.com/ . One-item-at-a-time might be unwieldy for some, but I have to do what works (and, of course, it's not for trivial tasks).
------------------------
(2) Monthly;
(a record of main events accomplished per month also goes here - as an overview, and to not forget major projects started…)
(3) Daily Tabs (includes a Post-it on TODAY);
(4) NEW (was "Capture", but now embedded, and these NEWS turn into DATED/AF as per Seraphim) (so simple!);
(I like the name "NEW" because it is for "new" things and it will turn into a "new" AF page.) (I do not like the word "Capture" as it sounds too extraneous and I use to ignore them for days at a time.)
(5) PROJECTS; and
(6) DATED/AF
(7) Routine / Checklist (this is just for reference and sometimes eliminates the need to write an item down on the other pages)
I also like the Current Project List (CPL) like Jupiter discusses. It is a great way to summarise each project using very little real estate. If you are afraid to look at all those projects in your digital task app because there are so many or so uncomfortable, this forces you to list the important ones. You can quickly remember previous projects pending, make notes about urgency, make projects inactive, or add any other relevant comment, symbol or highlight you feel like adding.
For me, to keep control, I have to look at absolutely everything as dismissible or expugnable; even TODAY stuff. This mentality is the only way I can keep a system from "turning on me" because I tend to be overzealous.
Seraphim's clear examples, like,
<<- 12/26 <<< created when the NEW page filled up on 12/26>>
are also a reminder for me that I can keep things orderly if I just put a little effort into it. Thanks.
I still like Alan's backlog discussions where you have a transition point and a bookmark; basically, a divide between "current" (or "semi-current"), and "non-current". So, I make stale AF pages backlog pages. I also try to use this approach for papers (phone notes, project notes, print-outs, to-be-scanned), emails and whatnot.
December 30, 2011 at 13:41 |
BKK
BKK
when I first came to this forum, and began to learn the systems, questions came up for me of how to deal with schedules, projects and longer term views
the answer was to use whatever calendar, project or planning system you want
did not go well with me, as those were areas was also struggling with
one idea I came up with was to perhaps use the idea of something stands out, but to connect it to time
so that have a larger list of say, things that have a rough year feeling of planning for. perhaps a vacation
then, if want to go to London, San Francisco, Boston, Tokyo - I could decide, OK, the one that stands out for me that I want to do THIS year, is London.
then dropping to Months (or quarters) decide what stands out on what needs to be done for trip to London and it might be, DECIDE WHEN TO GO
keep slicing in smaller chunks, until look at everything that need to do for trip to for DECIDE WHEN TO GO, and realize that today I want to read up on weather in London and events in London and office and family schedules to decide when best to go
the idea with this is to have a sense of the BIG PICTURE LONG VIEW and the LOCAL NOW IN FRONT OF ME VIEW
worked around with this on paper but never really figured out how to put it into action, remained theory
it seems that THIS is what Seraphim and Alan have solved. so while the discussion is on the TODAY, TOMORROW, NEW, I'm excited by what the longer term tickler pages bring to this system
this is now an AutoFocus system and a calendar and a longer term life/project planner
hurray
the answer was to use whatever calendar, project or planning system you want
did not go well with me, as those were areas was also struggling with
one idea I came up with was to perhaps use the idea of something stands out, but to connect it to time
so that have a larger list of say, things that have a rough year feeling of planning for. perhaps a vacation
then, if want to go to London, San Francisco, Boston, Tokyo - I could decide, OK, the one that stands out for me that I want to do THIS year, is London.
then dropping to Months (or quarters) decide what stands out on what needs to be done for trip to London and it might be, DECIDE WHEN TO GO
keep slicing in smaller chunks, until look at everything that need to do for trip to for DECIDE WHEN TO GO, and realize that today I want to read up on weather in London and events in London and office and family schedules to decide when best to go
the idea with this is to have a sense of the BIG PICTURE LONG VIEW and the LOCAL NOW IN FRONT OF ME VIEW
worked around with this on paper but never really figured out how to put it into action, remained theory
it seems that THIS is what Seraphim and Alan have solved. so while the discussion is on the TODAY, TOMORROW, NEW, I'm excited by what the longer term tickler pages bring to this system
this is now an AutoFocus system and a calendar and a longer term life/project planner
hurray
December 30, 2011 at 20:31 |
matthewS
matthewS
I'm afraid Matthew, I don't grasp how you intend to apply this.
December 30, 2011 at 22:10 |
Alan Baljeu
Alan Baljeu
Alan, yes, well, I'm not clear either. It felt OK in theory, but never could figure out how to apply it. BUT what I'm also saying, is I believe you and Seraphim have solved it.
You have a sense of what to do TODAY. A feeling is created for what TODAY involves, of if doable, the sort of road map in front of you. Where it roughly ends, is finished. And how to deal with changes along the way. You know where this is leading to for TOMORROW.
And seems you also have sense of where going for longer term. Such as with the FRIDAY page and JULY page.
Unless I'm seeing things that are not there, that does give a feeling of where my life is going both in short term and long term.
Not only is seeing what it is, also in planning, making the choices to map it out.
It may seem what is the big deal, a calendar does that. But for me, it does not, as a calendar is at the same level across the entire year. It does not give a sense of the BIG picture, what that is and how that breaks down into smaller and smaller and nearer chunks of time.
You have a sense of what to do TODAY. A feeling is created for what TODAY involves, of if doable, the sort of road map in front of you. Where it roughly ends, is finished. And how to deal with changes along the way. You know where this is leading to for TOMORROW.
And seems you also have sense of where going for longer term. Such as with the FRIDAY page and JULY page.
Unless I'm seeing things that are not there, that does give a feeling of where my life is going both in short term and long term.
Not only is seeing what it is, also in planning, making the choices to map it out.
It may seem what is the big deal, a calendar does that. But for me, it does not, as a calendar is at the same level across the entire year. It does not give a sense of the BIG picture, what that is and how that breaks down into smaller and smaller and nearer chunks of time.
December 30, 2011 at 23:57 |
matthewS
matthewS
I'm intrigued by this system as expounded by Seraphim and Alan, but I do have some reservations about it. The main one is that, as I understand it, it depends on conscious decisions about what should go on the "TODAY" list. Sadly, I long ago proved to my own satisfaction that type of pre-sorted list doesn't work for me. That doesn't mean that it won't work for other people - but I guess I also discovered that if I have a problem with a method then a lot of other people are going to have it too.
In all my systems since DIT, including the Final Version, the sorting comes at the end instead of the beginning - as a natural result of the working of the system.
I have to add the caveat here that I have not tried Seraphim's system, or Alan's version of it, so I am speaking only from my experience of other systems.
In all my systems since DIT, including the Final Version, the sorting comes at the end instead of the beginning - as a natural result of the working of the system.
I have to add the caveat here that I have not tried Seraphim's system, or Alan's version of it, so I am speaking only from my experience of other systems.
December 31, 2011 at 11:30 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
Fascinating. Isn't DIT that kind of presorted list? Second, things are not as much presorted as that, though this depends on the operator. Only tomorrow is significantly preplanned, and that is mostly as a continuation of today's incomplete tasks. Some additional tasks may be s elected today, and others tomorrOw.
December 31, 2011 at 14:01 |
Alan Baljeu
Alan Baljeu
Alan:
<< Isn't DIT that kind of presorted list? >>
No. That's exactly what it's not. And if you think it is then you have misunderstood how DIT is intended to work.
<< Only tomorrow is significantly preplanned, and that is mostly as a continuation of today's incomplete tasks. Some additional tasks may be s elected today, and others tomorrOw. >>
Seraphim: "The TODAY page -- this is the stuff you want to make sure you touch today (not necessarily complete - but at least make some progress)"
That sounds like a pre-sorted list to me.
<< Isn't DIT that kind of presorted list? >>
No. That's exactly what it's not. And if you think it is then you have misunderstood how DIT is intended to work.
<< Only tomorrow is significantly preplanned, and that is mostly as a continuation of today's incomplete tasks. Some additional tasks may be s elected today, and others tomorrOw. >>
Seraphim: "The TODAY page -- this is the stuff you want to make sure you touch today (not necessarily complete - but at least make some progress)"
That sounds like a pre-sorted list to me.
December 31, 2011 at 14:33 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
I'm not understanding. Does that quote not fit the Do It Tomorrow lists?
December 31, 2011 at 18:44 |
Alan Baljeu
Alan Baljeu
Alan:
<< Does that quote not fit the Do It Tomorrow lists? >>
No. Not at all. The DIT lists are not preplanned or preselected. They include ALL new tasks and ALL incomplete tasks and daily recurring tasks except for those which have "same day" urgency, or which physically can't be done tomorrow.
There is no selection or prioritising, apart from those time constraints.
As I said in my previous post "the sorting comes at the end instead of the beginning - as a natural result of the working of the system."
In the case of DIT the sorting takes the form of an audit of one's commitments (not one's tasks) if one falls behind by more than a few days. The aim of the audit is to reduce one's commitments to the extent that one can do ALL one's work in the time available to do it.
There are two images that sum up the system:
1) A container in which one puts all incoming work, which is then emptied the following day.
2) A conveyor belt in which one has to empty the containers before they fall off the end of the conveyor.
<< Does that quote not fit the Do It Tomorrow lists? >>
No. Not at all. The DIT lists are not preplanned or preselected. They include ALL new tasks and ALL incomplete tasks and daily recurring tasks except for those which have "same day" urgency, or which physically can't be done tomorrow.
There is no selection or prioritising, apart from those time constraints.
As I said in my previous post "the sorting comes at the end instead of the beginning - as a natural result of the working of the system."
In the case of DIT the sorting takes the form of an audit of one's commitments (not one's tasks) if one falls behind by more than a few days. The aim of the audit is to reduce one's commitments to the extent that one can do ALL one's work in the time available to do it.
There are two images that sum up the system:
1) A container in which one puts all incoming work, which is then emptied the following day.
2) A conveyor belt in which one has to empty the containers before they fall off the end of the conveyor.
December 31, 2011 at 19:15 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
+JMJ+
Mark: <<No. Not at all. The DIT lists are not preplanned or preselected. They include ALL new tasks and ALL incomplete tasks and daily recurring tasks except for those which have "same day" urgency, or which physically can't be done tomorrow.
There is no selection or prioritising, apart from those time constraints.
As I said in my previous post "the sorting comes at the end instead of the beginning - as a natural result of the working of the system."
In the case of DIT the sorting takes the form of an audit of one's commitments (not one's tasks) if one falls behind by more than a few days. The aim of the audit is to reduce one's commitments to the extent that one can do ALL one's work in the time available to do it.>>
OH! So that's why you declared during its inception that DWM was a form of DIT! Instead of audits of tasks when one falls behind a few days, DWM automatically "audits" one's tasks everyday by trimming off unactioned tasks 30days old and recurring and unfinished tasks 7 days old.
I also do remember your description of DWM as a "conveyor belt of tasks" or something like that
That would also explain why I am loving my DWM2 with tweaks so much. The system only "pre-selects" whether a task is for today, for tomorrow, or for some other day when the said task is only recurrent or unfinished, and even then it is either very evident (for example I do not need to water my lawn two times a day, do I? ^___^) or I use my "gut-feelings" to decide. Therefore, a deliberate "pre-selection" of tasks for today or tomorrow or some other day is minimized and, in fact, satisfies Mark's criteria of "the sorting comes at the end instead of the beginning - as a natural result of the working of the system."
In fact, one of the first steps of Seraphim's system, <<Write down everything you want to TOUCH or TAKE SOME ACTION on, TODAY, on the TODAY page. >> is foreign to the system that I am using. The system starts with writing <<everything>> as "NEW" and then I just let the system decide whether recurrent and unfinished tasks should be done today, tomorrow, or some other day.
On the other hand...heck, this is Seraphim we are talking about! The man whose workload constantly wrecks apart each and every one of Mark's systems due to sheer number of individual tasks. If this system works with him, then in my opinion it is worth considering.
Mark: <<No. Not at all. The DIT lists are not preplanned or preselected. They include ALL new tasks and ALL incomplete tasks and daily recurring tasks except for those which have "same day" urgency, or which physically can't be done tomorrow.
There is no selection or prioritising, apart from those time constraints.
As I said in my previous post "the sorting comes at the end instead of the beginning - as a natural result of the working of the system."
In the case of DIT the sorting takes the form of an audit of one's commitments (not one's tasks) if one falls behind by more than a few days. The aim of the audit is to reduce one's commitments to the extent that one can do ALL one's work in the time available to do it.>>
OH! So that's why you declared during its inception that DWM was a form of DIT! Instead of audits of tasks when one falls behind a few days, DWM automatically "audits" one's tasks everyday by trimming off unactioned tasks 30days old and recurring and unfinished tasks 7 days old.
I also do remember your description of DWM as a "conveyor belt of tasks" or something like that
That would also explain why I am loving my DWM2 with tweaks so much. The system only "pre-selects" whether a task is for today, for tomorrow, or for some other day when the said task is only recurrent or unfinished, and even then it is either very evident (for example I do not need to water my lawn two times a day, do I? ^___^) or I use my "gut-feelings" to decide. Therefore, a deliberate "pre-selection" of tasks for today or tomorrow or some other day is minimized and, in fact, satisfies Mark's criteria of "the sorting comes at the end instead of the beginning - as a natural result of the working of the system."
In fact, one of the first steps of Seraphim's system, <<Write down everything you want to TOUCH or TAKE SOME ACTION on, TODAY, on the TODAY page. >> is foreign to the system that I am using. The system starts with writing <<everything>> as "NEW" and then I just let the system decide whether recurrent and unfinished tasks should be done today, tomorrow, or some other day.
On the other hand...heck, this is Seraphim we are talking about! The man whose workload constantly wrecks apart each and every one of Mark's systems due to sheer number of individual tasks. If this system works with him, then in my opinion it is worth considering.
January 1, 2012 at 3:23 |
nuntym
nuntym
Mark Forster wrote:
<< Seraphim: "The TODAY page -- this is the stuff you want to make sure you touch today (not necessarily complete - but at least make some progress)"
That sounds like a pre-sorted list to me. >>
It's not really a pre-sorted list. It works pretty much the same way DIT works. The stuff that appears on the TODAY page moves forward from yesterday's TOMORROW page, just like in DIT.
My description was meant to convey the idea of how you *process* the TODAY list. This is your hotlist for the day. If there's anything on that list that doesn't feel "hot", then move it somewhere else. This happens in-the-moment and is not pre-planned or pre-prioritised.
Sorry if my description led you astray. I think this becomes clearer in my re-write of the system, which I am planning to post momentarily.
<< Seraphim: "The TODAY page -- this is the stuff you want to make sure you touch today (not necessarily complete - but at least make some progress)"
That sounds like a pre-sorted list to me. >>
It's not really a pre-sorted list. It works pretty much the same way DIT works. The stuff that appears on the TODAY page moves forward from yesterday's TOMORROW page, just like in DIT.
My description was meant to convey the idea of how you *process* the TODAY list. This is your hotlist for the day. If there's anything on that list that doesn't feel "hot", then move it somewhere else. This happens in-the-moment and is not pre-planned or pre-prioritised.
Sorry if my description led you astray. I think this becomes clearer in my re-write of the system, which I am planning to post momentarily.
January 1, 2012 at 4:46 |
Seraphim
Seraphim
Congratulations, nuntym, on posting the first item for the new year! :-)
And it's not really my *workload* per se that generates so many tasks. It's more my undisciplined mind that jumps at every new shiny object. LOL
And it's not really my *workload* per se that generates so many tasks. It's more my undisciplined mind that jumps at every new shiny object. LOL
January 1, 2012 at 4:49 |
Seraphim
Seraphim
If anyone's interested in how this evolved, I'd be glad to tell the story, but I think I'll just cut to the chase and provide the rules I'm currently following. This system has been providing many benefits:
-- No compulsion - work only on what stands out - which preserves the sense of "flow" and doesn't cause me to resist the system itself
-- Preserves the DIT sense of "a day's work in one day" -- something I really missed with AF1
-- Allows for free-form, one-off tasks, including all kinds of exploratory things that may never come to fruition -- books and articles and emails to read, ideas that pop into my head, etc. While the system allows these and processes them, it keeps them in their place and encourages me to focus on my "today" list.
I'm loving it.
Here are the rules (sorry they aren't really polished or anything -- I hope you can make sense of them):
Use a loose-leaf notebook or the logical equivalent. I implement this entirely online in Microsoft OneNote. It can be very handy to re-order the pages as needed; but I suppose you can accomplish this with an index or something if you want.
There are several kinds of pages but they all take the same form: a list of tasks to do, just like in AF1.
The kinds of pages are
- FUTURE pages -- stuff you don't want start till later. Among these must be a TOMORROW page. But you can also have a MONDAY page, a JANUARY page, or whatever you want. Works kind of like a tickler, kind of like the DIT "put it on tomorrow's list" approach. I suppose you could use any other kind of tickler or reminder system but I find it works better to have this kind of stuff integrated directly into the system.
- The TODAY page -- this is the stuff you want to make sure you touch today (not necessarily complete - but at least make some progress)
- The NEW page -- this is where all new tasks are written down by default.
- PROJECT pages - these tend to be generic, permanent projects such as ERRANDS, or a page of things to discuss with my wife. But whatever you define as a project can go here. Usually I find it's easier just to keep a few project tasks on my TODAY page, but if I have extra supporting material or details, it's nice to have that handy on the PROJECT pages.
- DATED page -- These are AF-style pages with (mostly) one-off tasks that don't really fit anywhere else.
=== START UP ===
When you first start up, start with a TODAY page, a TOMORROW page, and a NEW page. Write down everything you want to TOUCH or TAKE SOME ACTION on, TODAY, on the TODAY page.
Write down anything else that comes to mind on the TOMORROW page if you are pretty sure you want to touch it or see it or take some action on it tomorrow.
Otherwise, put it on the NEW page. You are now ready to start. All the other kinds of pages I've mentioned will be created as you need them.
=== How to process the pages ===
1. Here's how you would cycle through the TODAY page, AF1-style, as follows:
a. If you work on something, and want to work on it some more later today, then cross it off and re-enter it at the end of the TODAY list. (Some people don't like all that crossing-out and rewriting, so if you are one of those, then feel free to just leave it where it is. You will lose track of what you already touched today, however, unless you invent some kind of notation to indicate that.)
b. If you work on something, but don’t want to work on it any more today, then cross it off TODAY and re-enter it on the TOMORROW list (or elsewhere; see How to handle different kinds of tasks, below)
c. If you don't work on something, and think you might want to see it again today, then leave it where it is.
d. If you don't work on something, and you already know you're not going to touch it again today, then cross it off TODAY and re-enter it elsewhere. (See How to handle different kinds of tasks)
e. If you worked on anything on the TODAY list this cycle, then cycle through it again.
f. Otherwise, move to next page in the order given below.
g. The TODAY page is not subject to dismissal.
2. Cycle through subsequent pages pretty much the same way. If you touch something, and want more action today, move it to TODAY; if it's enough action for today, move it to TOMORROW; if it really doesn't need any action until some future date, then move it to that future date instead; if you don't really know or care when it gets more action, then move it to NEW. After you cycle through all of the pages, then start back at the top of the order.
3. Order of the pages. Cycle through the pages in this order; i.e., when you start a new day, start with the FUTURE pages, in the order given below, and proceed through the remaining pages. Process each page pretty much the same way you process the TODAY page, as explained in (1) and (2), above:
a. FUTURE pages - in order of latest date to nearest date. Future pages whose date hasn't arrived yet can just be skipped (or reviewed if you prefer).
b. TOMORROW
c. TODAY
d. NEW
e. Project pages
f. Dated pages
Example: Today is Tuesday, 12/27/2011. My pages look like this:
a. JANUARY
b. MONDAY
c. FRIDAY
d. TOMORROW
e. TODAY
f. NEW
g. A few DATED pages
4. Start the day by going through all pages from the top of the order.
○ Most of them can be skipped because they don't need any attention till the right time comes.
○ If the time HAS come, then you can just move all the tasks therein to TODAY. If you want, you can review them first to see if they are still relevant.
○ Practically, you will spend most of your time on the TODAY page. You should see it as your goal to (1) whittle down the TODAY pagevery quickly to a realistic, doable list for the day, and (2) clear the whole TODAY page.
○ This doesn’t mean everything on the TODAY page is FINISHED -- it means everything on the TODAY page is ACTIONED -- or perhaps, quickly transferred to a future page.
5. Handling NEW
a. Process just like you would the last page of an AF1 list: cycle through, taking action or deferring to a FUTURE page, until nothing stands out. If you take some action, you can move to the TODAY page if you want more action today, or to the TOMORROW page, or any other future page.
b. After doing this, if the page is mostly full, then reclassify the NEW page as a DATED page by writing the date at the top of the page and calling it "AF". This emphasizes that it's very much like a standard AF1 page.
c. This new page should go at the end of your list. It's basically an "AF-like miscellaneous page" with a bunch of (mostly) one-off tasks.
6. Handling Dated Sections
a. Treat them just like AF1 pages:
i. Cycle through, taking action as desired, and/or moving to FUTURE pages.
ii. If no action is taken on any item on this visit to the page, the entire page is dismissed.
b. Sometimes these dated pages just sit there for days or weeks without you ever even looking at them. That's OK - it means you have better things to do, like processing your TODAY and TOMORROW pages. If you start seeing a large number of older dated pages, you can just dismiss them en-masse. It's a great feeling. :-)
7. At any time, you may jump back to TODAY if you want.
a. This is usually not needed, because that's where you spend most of your time anyway.
b. The reason for this rule is to allow you to escape if you get bogged down in the PROJECTS or DATED PAGES and start feeling the pressure of the TODAY list and don't want to cycle through the rest of the PROJECTS and DATED PAGES.
=== How to handle different kinds of tasks ===
-- Not sure what to do with it, don't want to think about it too much right now -- Move to NEW
-- Needs action today -- Move to TODAY
-- Needs action but can wait till tomorrow -- Move to TOMORROW
-- Needs action but can't start till next week -- MONDAY
-- Needs action but can't start till next month MONTH (create new page for that month if needed)
Avoid moving things to a specific dated page unless you really have a reason for moving it to that page - you really intend to revisit it on that particular date for a particular reason.
For example:
○ You did some work on an unfinished project that needs attention every day till it's done. You feel it's "enough for today". Move it to TOMORROW.
○ You want to call someone right now, but it's the weekend and they aren't available till Monday. Move to MONDAY.
○ You have several recurring tasks that need to be done monthly. Move them all to JANUARY or whatever the next month is.
○ You have a pressing project, and could start working on it right now, but you have plenty of work already this week, and you don't want to be distracted by this new project till next week. Move to MONDAY. Note: This one is a judgment call. It might be better to move it to NEW and treat it as having an undefined start date. As you cycle through NEW, you'll see it again, and might have the same thought: "I need to work on this next week". In that case, move it to MONDAY. But then again, you might have another thought: "This is just an idea that may or may not need attention - let it percolate a while." NEW is the place for such things.
Items like this should be moved to NEW:
○ There's an article (or book or email or website or YouTube video) you'd like to read sometime.
○ You have a new idea you think you might want to pursue sometime.
○ You met someone at a conference that you want to contact again sometime, but there's really no time pressure, and if you forget it might not really matter.