Discussion Forum > Seth Godin: Why productivity improvements don't work
I'll start:
"You don't need a new plan for next year. You need a commitment."
For about a year, I had "open new office" on various lists (AF, DWM, GTD). No actions were taken. However things changed when I found out the building (where my office is in) is going to be torn down, and replaced with condos. Within two months, I signed a 2 year lease for a fantastic office. My signature spurred more action (purchasing a carpet, couches, etc), all without lists, contexts, etc.
And yet I keep lists. Perhaps I should make more commitments.
"You don't need a new plan for next year. You need a commitment."
For about a year, I had "open new office" on various lists (AF, DWM, GTD). No actions were taken. However things changed when I found out the building (where my office is in) is going to be torn down, and replaced with condos. Within two months, I signed a 2 year lease for a fantastic office. My signature spurred more action (purchasing a carpet, couches, etc), all without lists, contexts, etc.
And yet I keep lists. Perhaps I should make more commitments.
January 2, 2012 at 0:05 |
avrum
avrum
AF is a list of things you might commit to. The biggest question is which to pick, and to be sure to pick the best.
January 2, 2012 at 0:23 |
Alan Baljeu
Alan Baljeu
avrum:
<< "You don't need a new plan for next year. You need a commitment." >>
I can't help feeling my response to anyone telling me that I don't get things done because I'm avoiding doing them would be "Well, doh".
<< For about a year, I had "open new office" on various lists (AF, DWM, GTD). No actions were taken.>>
Three different time management systems in one year? Good avoidance strategy.
<< Perhaps I should make more commitments. >>
I wasn't aware that you'd made a commitment. It would have been a commitment if you'd succeeded in opening the office _without_ the building being torn down. Doing something because you have to isn't a commitment.
<< "You don't need a new plan for next year. You need a commitment." >>
I can't help feeling my response to anyone telling me that I don't get things done because I'm avoiding doing them would be "Well, doh".
<< For about a year, I had "open new office" on various lists (AF, DWM, GTD). No actions were taken.>>
Three different time management systems in one year? Good avoidance strategy.
<< Perhaps I should make more commitments. >>
I wasn't aware that you'd made a commitment. It would have been a commitment if you'd succeeded in opening the office _without_ the building being torn down. Doing something because you have to isn't a commitment.
January 2, 2012 at 0:50 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
Alan:
<< AF is a list of things you might commit to. The biggest question is which to pick, and to be sure to pick the best. >>
Actually AF is a list of things you might _do_, rather than indulge in mental gymnastics over.
<< AF is a list of things you might commit to. The biggest question is which to pick, and to be sure to pick the best. >>
Actually AF is a list of things you might _do_, rather than indulge in mental gymnastics over.
January 2, 2012 at 0:53 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
<<Doing something because you have to isn't a commitment. >>
We'll have to agree to disagree. I can think of a plethora of things, with various consequences, that "I must do". I can also think of many ways to procrastinate on those things (one of my favorites is discussing productivity tools and tips).
Although Seth is mocking me, I agree with his observation.
We'll have to agree to disagree. I can think of a plethora of things, with various consequences, that "I must do". I can also think of many ways to procrastinate on those things (one of my favorites is discussing productivity tools and tips).
Although Seth is mocking me, I agree with his observation.
January 2, 2012 at 4:53 |
avrum
avrum
Alan
<<AF is a list of things you might commit to. The biggest question is which to pick, and to be sure to pick the best. >>
I think Seth is addressing the process (endless discussion of tips and strategies to be more productive) not the content (a system to stay organized). Further, his claim that:
"... once you do make the commitment, the productivity tips aren't that needed."
seems to support most of my past accomplishments.
<<AF is a list of things you might commit to. The biggest question is which to pick, and to be sure to pick the best. >>
I think Seth is addressing the process (endless discussion of tips and strategies to be more productive) not the content (a system to stay organized). Further, his claim that:
"... once you do make the commitment, the productivity tips aren't that needed."
seems to support most of my past accomplishments.
January 2, 2012 at 4:59 |
avrum
avrum
So figure what you WILL TO DO and focus on that as much as possible. All other tasks you do when they must be done, as they become urgent. This is more effective than stuffing everything into a System and not having a particular commitment - regardless of the system. I think that's what he's saying.
January 2, 2012 at 5:26 |
Alan Baljeu
Alan Baljeu
avrum:
<< I can think of a plethora of things, with various consequences, that "I must do". I can also think of many ways to procrastinate on those things (one of my favorites is discussing productivity tools and tips). >>
No doubt. But what has that got to do with making a commitment?
You went from "I must get round to opening a new office sometime" to "I have to open a new office before the building is knocked down around my ears" simply through force of circumstances.
<< I can think of a plethora of things, with various consequences, that "I must do". I can also think of many ways to procrastinate on those things (one of my favorites is discussing productivity tools and tips). >>
No doubt. But what has that got to do with making a commitment?
You went from "I must get round to opening a new office sometime" to "I have to open a new office before the building is knocked down around my ears" simply through force of circumstances.
January 2, 2012 at 8:59 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
Alan:
<< So figure what you WILL TO DO and focus on that as much as possible. All other tasks you do when they must be done, as they become urgent. >>
As I wrote on the Home Page of this site:
Prioritizing by Importance
Prioritizing by importance is a cause of bad time management, not a cure for it! Just how impressed would you be if your new car didn’t have wing mirrors because the factory thought the engine was more important than the wing mirrors? If it needs to be done, then it needs to be done, period.
<< So figure what you WILL TO DO and focus on that as much as possible. All other tasks you do when they must be done, as they become urgent. >>
As I wrote on the Home Page of this site:
Prioritizing by Importance
Prioritizing by importance is a cause of bad time management, not a cure for it! Just how impressed would you be if your new car didn’t have wing mirrors because the factory thought the engine was more important than the wing mirrors? If it needs to be done, then it needs to be done, period.
January 2, 2012 at 9:22 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
Mark: I suppose committment comes AFTER something "stands out"? Or perhaps they are the tasks we ARE ready to commit to?
January 2, 2012 at 13:00 |
michael
michael
Being a bit of a devil's advocate here:
But does it *really* need to be done? If it does you will know and do it. There are many pseudo-needs that if ignored will simply go away. And once you so that, the list of needs is small enough it doesn't need much management. in any event, missing a couple 'needs' is less significant than missing a major 'opportunity'.
But does it *really* need to be done? If it does you will know and do it. There are many pseudo-needs that if ignored will simply go away. And once you so that, the list of needs is small enough it doesn't need much management. in any event, missing a couple 'needs' is less significant than missing a major 'opportunity'.
January 2, 2012 at 13:56 |
Alan Baljeu
Alan Baljeu
ALAN
<<So figure what you WILL TO DO and focus on that as much as possible.>>
I wasn't looking for advice per se (though some may be), rather I thought Seth's words could spark reflection.
Recently, I've been thinking that it's time to bypass productivity systems unless the originator, and a few guinea pigs, can prove quality of success i.e. here's how I wrote my book, composed my song, opened my new business.
<<So figure what you WILL TO DO and focus on that as much as possible.>>
I wasn't looking for advice per se (though some may be), rather I thought Seth's words could spark reflection.
Recently, I've been thinking that it's time to bypass productivity systems unless the originator, and a few guinea pigs, can prove quality of success i.e. here's how I wrote my book, composed my song, opened my new business.
January 2, 2012 at 14:13 |
avrum
avrum
avrum: I wasn't looking to give advice per say, rather I was reflecting on what I figure Seth meant by his words.
January 2, 2012 at 14:52 |
Alan Baljeu
Alan Baljeu
Apologies Alan. It misread your post.
January 2, 2012 at 15:00 |
avrum
avrum
avrum:
<<Recently, I've been thinking that it's time to bypass productivity systems unless the originator, and a few guinea pigs, can prove quality of success i.e. here's how I wrote my book, composed my song, opened my new business. >>
You mean that the people who are most successful at writing books, composing songs and opening new businesses do so in a completely unsystematic manner?
<<Recently, I've been thinking that it's time to bypass productivity systems unless the originator, and a few guinea pigs, can prove quality of success i.e. here's how I wrote my book, composed my song, opened my new business. >>
You mean that the people who are most successful at writing books, composing songs and opening new businesses do so in a completely unsystematic manner?
January 2, 2012 at 15:02 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
Alan:
<< But does it *really* need to be done? If it does you will know and do it. >>
Actually of all the things I have so far done today the only ones I really needed to do were to eat breakfast and lunch. And I guess at a pinch I could have survived without them for a bit too.
The trouble is that while I sit here staring into space how am I going to find that great opportunity?
<< But does it *really* need to be done? If it does you will know and do it. >>
Actually of all the things I have so far done today the only ones I really needed to do were to eat breakfast and lunch. And I guess at a pinch I could have survived without them for a bit too.
The trouble is that while I sit here staring into space how am I going to find that great opportunity?
January 2, 2012 at 15:07 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
There seems to be a lot of talk recently on not making commitments, not having goals, and so on. It's sort of a new fashionable take on productivity and it makes me very nervous. This is mainly because in my observation of others, those who have a goal and make plans to achieve that goal get things done and get their life the way they want it to be. This inevitably leads to lists of tasks that need to be done and managed which of course is where time management and personal organisation comes in.
I've also observed that there doesn't seem to be one-size-fits-all to this. It's a question of finding or adapting a system to work for you based on some sound principles. We all look to Mark for the sound principles.
I suspect that others, like me, are looking for that secret golden gem of an idea that will magically transform us all into perfect organisation. Well, I for one don't think it exists (although I keep an eye out for it!), but managing ourselves and our tasks is probably just a question of following methodology that suits us consistently and diligently. And in my view this is the hard bit.
Some people are born naturally organised and others have to work at it - I suspect that all of us that frequent this forum are of the latter group.
Just a few of my thoughts!
I've also observed that there doesn't seem to be one-size-fits-all to this. It's a question of finding or adapting a system to work for you based on some sound principles. We all look to Mark for the sound principles.
I suspect that others, like me, are looking for that secret golden gem of an idea that will magically transform us all into perfect organisation. Well, I for one don't think it exists (although I keep an eye out for it!), but managing ourselves and our tasks is probably just a question of following methodology that suits us consistently and diligently. And in my view this is the hard bit.
Some people are born naturally organised and others have to work at it - I suspect that all of us that frequent this forum are of the latter group.
Just a few of my thoughts!
January 2, 2012 at 17:20 |
Alison Reeves
Alison Reeves
Alison,
<<Some people are born naturally organised and others have to work at it>>
I'm not sure that is true. I think everyone has to work at it. Perhaps it is more to do with upbringing and how organized your parents are. Nurture not nature. Perhaps those who *seem* naturally, inately, organized are more goal orientated -- they are people who have to be organized to some degree so that they can actually work towards their goals.
Goals are something to be aimed at. Once the goal is achieved, it is an achievement, not a goal.
I have never been particularly goal orientated, and until I was introduced to the marvelous AF1 I spent most of my time wondering what to do. So now I am more goal orientated, and I am committed to the goals, as a result of having a task management system that works.
<<Some people are born naturally organised and others have to work at it>>
I'm not sure that is true. I think everyone has to work at it. Perhaps it is more to do with upbringing and how organized your parents are. Nurture not nature. Perhaps those who *seem* naturally, inately, organized are more goal orientated -- they are people who have to be organized to some degree so that they can actually work towards their goals.
Goals are something to be aimed at. Once the goal is achieved, it is an achievement, not a goal.
I have never been particularly goal orientated, and until I was introduced to the marvelous AF1 I spent most of my time wondering what to do. So now I am more goal orientated, and I am committed to the goals, as a result of having a task management system that works.
January 2, 2012 at 18:39 |
Wooba
Wooba
Alison:
<< Some people are born naturally organised and others have to work at it >>
I think this is very true (I'm married to one of the naturally organised ones!)
But I think nevertheless that even the naturally organized ones use some form of system. They don't just wait for inspiration to strike. We can therefore learn from them and model them.
<< Some people are born naturally organised and others have to work at it >>
I think this is very true (I'm married to one of the naturally organised ones!)
But I think nevertheless that even the naturally organized ones use some form of system. They don't just wait for inspiration to strike. We can therefore learn from them and model them.
January 2, 2012 at 19:56 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
Mark - very true. I know one or two naturally organised people (who seem reluctant to 'share' their secret!) and they just look at me in amazement when I question them, because what they do just seems to come naturally to them and they don't think about it. However it usually involves writing things down in some form of list.
I also know people who are naturally organised but who don't set goals, so they don't always go hand in hand.
I also know people who are naturally organised but who don't set goals, so they don't always go hand in hand.
January 2, 2012 at 21:33 |
Alison Reeves
Alison Reeves
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_s3_sZmiso
Scroll to 5:30
Seth Godin describes his productivity system:
"I'm very much focused on not having a typical day. When I want to write, I write."
Perhaps this would fall under the "Dreams" approach.
Scroll to 5:30
Seth Godin describes his productivity system:
"I'm very much focused on not having a typical day. When I want to write, I write."
Perhaps this would fall under the "Dreams" approach.
January 2, 2012 at 21:56 |
avrum
avrum
Mark, avrum,
In avrum's example, the office move became a key part of an existing commitment, which was to stay in business. That seem's fair enough to me.
Doing something when you feel like doing it seems to fit in well with AF as well. (I realise that "when I feel like" is not quite the same as "when it stands out") .
In avrum's example, the office move became a key part of an existing commitment, which was to stay in business. That seem's fair enough to me.
Doing something when you feel like doing it seems to fit in well with AF as well. (I realise that "when I feel like" is not quite the same as "when it stands out") .
January 3, 2012 at 12:22 |
Will
Will
Will:
I think you are missing the point of the exchange. Avrum was giving the office move as an example of how he got moving on something once he'd made a new commitment to it. I pointed out that he actually hadn't made a new commitment - the driving force had been force of circumstances.
You're also missing the point of AF, which is to get you to do things you don't feel like doing, as well as those you do!
I think you are missing the point of the exchange. Avrum was giving the office move as an example of how he got moving on something once he'd made a new commitment to it. I pointed out that he actually hadn't made a new commitment - the driving force had been force of circumstances.
You're also missing the point of AF, which is to get you to do things you don't feel like doing, as well as those you do!
January 3, 2012 at 14:08 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
Mark,
Sigh, so many missed points...
I think I agree with both of you. What I was trying to say, in my stumbling and incoherent way, was that the change in circumstances would have no force if it wasn't linked to a real commitment.
Ah, now I see where I've been going wrong all these years... :0)
Seriously, I'm sure Seth Godin does a lot of stuff he would prefer not to have to do. But the idea of choosing based on a sort of flow rather than crude rules seems to me to be very much in the spirit of AF.
Sigh, so many missed points...
I think I agree with both of you. What I was trying to say, in my stumbling and incoherent way, was that the change in circumstances would have no force if it wasn't linked to a real commitment.
Ah, now I see where I've been going wrong all these years... :0)
Seriously, I'm sure Seth Godin does a lot of stuff he would prefer not to have to do. But the idea of choosing based on a sort of flow rather than crude rules seems to me to be very much in the spirit of AF.
January 3, 2012 at 16:38 |
Will
Will
Discuss :)