Discussion Forum > Do you keep work and home separate?
I also work "at home" even if I have my own office. I tried both. I noticed that mixing all was the best for me. What is the most important for me with AF is the reformulation and the reporting of unfinished actions at the end of the list. I also notice that I go backward the list during the day from the last items to old one like with AF2. Separating the items makes nothing to the system it complicates the system and I am less efficient. Don't know why.
January 31, 2012 at 16:27 |
FocusGuy.
FocusGuy.
I don't work from home, so I may be way off base here on how that all combines together. It seems to me that if you mix both contexts in a single notebook, you will be distracted by home projects and activities when you should be earning your living. If you work for yourself, that may be okay, but what if you work for someone else? It's a beautiful day out today, and one of the tasks on my list is wash and wax the motorcycle. I would much rather do that than sit at a computer or on the phone working. And what if I decide to take a ride after I'm done cleaning the bike? Next thing I know it's 8:00pm and I haven't done any "work"! The boss calls and asks when he's going to get an answer to his email from a few hours ago. Do you tell him you were working on one of your home projects? I think it would be better to have two notebooks. You could keep the "home" notebook by your side, open to the current page, in case you think of something to add to the list, but make it a point not to go through that book until you are ready to switch from work mode to home mode.
January 31, 2012 at 17:13 |
Dave D
Dave D
The demands at home are COMPLETELY different from demands at work. It makes no sense to combine these.
January 31, 2012 at 19:04 |
Alan Baljeu
Alan Baljeu
Alan:
<< The demands at home are COMPLETELY different from demands at work. It makes no sense to combine these. >>
I would agree if you are employed and work from an office, but many people aren't in that situation.
In my own situation it would be very difficult to draw the line:
Dealing with this website, running the occasional seminar, writing a book - all obviously work.
Listening to music, watching a film, reading a novel - all obviously not work
Sorting out my office (which I use for all the above) - not so obvious
Running the fund raising appeal for my church - not so obvious
Organizing social events for the local branch of the Catenian Association - not so obvious
Being involved with my old school in both social events (definitely not work), fund raising (possibly work) and teaching time management (definitely work) - does it make sense to separate them since I'm dealing with the same people for all three?
<< The demands at home are COMPLETELY different from demands at work. It makes no sense to combine these. >>
I would agree if you are employed and work from an office, but many people aren't in that situation.
In my own situation it would be very difficult to draw the line:
Dealing with this website, running the occasional seminar, writing a book - all obviously work.
Listening to music, watching a film, reading a novel - all obviously not work
Sorting out my office (which I use for all the above) - not so obvious
Running the fund raising appeal for my church - not so obvious
Organizing social events for the local branch of the Catenian Association - not so obvious
Being involved with my old school in both social events (definitely not work), fund raising (possibly work) and teaching time management (definitely work) - does it make sense to separate them since I'm dealing with the same people for all three?
January 31, 2012 at 21:43 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
As I wrote in the earlier thread, I keep a single thin pocket notebook with graph-ruled lines, either Field Notes or Moleskine Cahier, and use ink color to tag Home vs Work contexts, but these tasks are all interleaved throughout the list, all in the same notebook. The main reason is that I do a lot of work-related tasks at home, and some home-related tasks when at work. I have tried using separate pages and the "cave deposits" method of separating the two contexts, but found that a simple ink-color change (easy if you keep a multipen handy) works best.
January 31, 2012 at 22:49 |
ubi
ubi
Mixing work items and personal items is counterproductive and counterintuitive. If I am reviewing a boatload of personal items and have my mind thinking 'what are my demands for 'myself', and I come across "Check client specs before deciding on sandblasting and painting", that would totally throw me off, and distract me.
To me, it is easy to decide what is work and what is personal, regardless if you work from home, or not.
If it is not directly for the job, (i.e., the boss, the client, the contract, etc.), it is personal (even if you are your own boss).
Mark: <<Sorting out my office (which I use for all the above) - not so obvious>>
For these items in the 'grey area', just make a simple decision; make organising your office space a personal task, and be done with it.
Ubi: <<…found that a simple ink-color change (easy if you keep a multipen handy) works best>>
What did Mark say one time? It was something in the order of "Come on, guys. I'm sure you can make (it) more complicated if you really, really try.".
Once you get used to categorising certain tasks as personal or work, they will quickly become habitual, and then there should be no 'grey areas'.
To me, it is easy to decide what is work and what is personal, regardless if you work from home, or not.
If it is not directly for the job, (i.e., the boss, the client, the contract, etc.), it is personal (even if you are your own boss).
Mark: <<Sorting out my office (which I use for all the above) - not so obvious>>
For these items in the 'grey area', just make a simple decision; make organising your office space a personal task, and be done with it.
Ubi: <<…found that a simple ink-color change (easy if you keep a multipen handy) works best>>
What did Mark say one time? It was something in the order of "Come on, guys. I'm sure you can make (it) more complicated if you really, really try.".
Once you get used to categorising certain tasks as personal or work, they will quickly become habitual, and then there should be no 'grey areas'.
February 1, 2012 at 8:47 |
BKK
BKK
BKK;
First let me say I have absolutely no objection to someone separating out home and work if they find it works best that way for them.
But personally I have never found it a problem. If I separated out home and work, then presumably I would have divided up the day into "work" and "home" times. It would just frustrate me to find that I couldn't do a particular job because it was the wrong time of day according to some completely arbitrary rule I had set myself.
So I can only mow the lawn at weekends in spite of the fact that it's just the right sort of weather this afternoon?
I've been trying to get hold of someone all day, but I can't call them in the evening when they are most likely to be available?
I can only sort out my office at a specific time of day?
That sort of thing would drive me nuts. The reason I have always preferred to work at home rather than in an office is just exactly to be free of rules like that!
First let me say I have absolutely no objection to someone separating out home and work if they find it works best that way for them.
But personally I have never found it a problem. If I separated out home and work, then presumably I would have divided up the day into "work" and "home" times. It would just frustrate me to find that I couldn't do a particular job because it was the wrong time of day according to some completely arbitrary rule I had set myself.
So I can only mow the lawn at weekends in spite of the fact that it's just the right sort of weather this afternoon?
I've been trying to get hold of someone all day, but I can't call them in the evening when they are most likely to be available?
I can only sort out my office at a specific time of day?
That sort of thing would drive me nuts. The reason I have always preferred to work at home rather than in an office is just exactly to be free of rules like that!
February 1, 2012 at 9:54 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
I would encourage everyone to try both one-notebook-rules-all and separate notebooks by location.
I used to think I would always stick to one notebook for everything. I am a postdoc, so I can work from home or the university and may have an erratic schedule sometimes (much less so these days). My main worry was having work-related things in front of me to do at home; and personal things available to do while at work.
Since I moved to the UK and got myself in a less erratic schedule, and I was tired of taking my notebook around (I need an A4, plenty of room -- not to write, but to have empty space -- crammed writing can bother me). I decided to test two notebooks, one per location, for a week. I always begin those tests very skeptical, but tell myself the overhead to switch back is so small that it is worth trying.
Lo and behold, it has been marvellous! I mix and match lots of personal and work-related stuff on both notebooks. When I have to work at home, work is fresh in my head and I just add whatever hot-project I need to tackle on my home notebook. I usually have just 2--3 open pages on each notebook, that also helps. (Dismissal comes very fast, and I am using SF).
So, as I said, trying the other option can be beneficial. If you do have a good system in place, it is probably a very simple system to switch back to if you decide you don't like the 2- or 1-notebook method.
I used to think I would always stick to one notebook for everything. I am a postdoc, so I can work from home or the university and may have an erratic schedule sometimes (much less so these days). My main worry was having work-related things in front of me to do at home; and personal things available to do while at work.
Since I moved to the UK and got myself in a less erratic schedule, and I was tired of taking my notebook around (I need an A4, plenty of room -- not to write, but to have empty space -- crammed writing can bother me). I decided to test two notebooks, one per location, for a week. I always begin those tests very skeptical, but tell myself the overhead to switch back is so small that it is worth trying.
Lo and behold, it has been marvellous! I mix and match lots of personal and work-related stuff on both notebooks. When I have to work at home, work is fresh in my head and I just add whatever hot-project I need to tackle on my home notebook. I usually have just 2--3 open pages on each notebook, that also helps. (Dismissal comes very fast, and I am using SF).
So, as I said, trying the other option can be beneficial. If you do have a good system in place, it is probably a very simple system to switch back to if you decide you don't like the 2- or 1-notebook method.
February 1, 2012 at 11:14 |
Natalia
Natalia
<When I have to work at home, work is fresh in my head and I just add whatever hot-project I need to tackle on my home notebook.>
I second that.
I second that.
February 1, 2012 at 12:44 |
Alan Baljeu
Alan Baljeu
I found the biggest problem with combining work and home tasks in one notebook was that the two domains operate at different cycle rates. This was especially an issue with SF and Column 2.
February 1, 2012 at 15:38 |
Seraphim
Seraphim
BKK,
You wrote: [Ubi: <<…found that a simple ink-color change (easy if you keep a multipen handy) works best>>] What did Mark say one time? It was something in the order of "Come on, guys. I'm sure you can make (it) more complicated if you really, really try."
Well, I don't think this is any more complicated than tagging, keeping two notebooks, alternating pages, etc. I like having all my items listed in the order I enter them. The colors make it easy to scan and focus on whatever is appropriate at the time.
To each his own.
You wrote: [Ubi: <<…found that a simple ink-color change (easy if you keep a multipen handy) works best>>] What did Mark say one time? It was something in the order of "Come on, guys. I'm sure you can make (it) more complicated if you really, really try."
Well, I don't think this is any more complicated than tagging, keeping two notebooks, alternating pages, etc. I like having all my items listed in the order I enter them. The colors make it easy to scan and focus on whatever is appropriate at the time.
To each his own.
February 1, 2012 at 17:42 |
ubi
ubi
Ubi:
<< use ink color to tag Home vs Work contexts, but these tasks are all interleaved throughout the list, all in the same notebook >>
I'm with Ubi here. One "digital notebook", with home tasks tagged with "earthy brown" background and office tasks with "cash green" background color. Slight variations of tone/shade of brown/green for a few other "types" of home/offices tasks I like to differentiate/highlight. Now my list is so colourful and nice to look at. ;-}
Screenshot http://goo.gl/SjBQR .
<< use ink color to tag Home vs Work contexts, but these tasks are all interleaved throughout the list, all in the same notebook >>
I'm with Ubi here. One "digital notebook", with home tasks tagged with "earthy brown" background and office tasks with "cash green" background color. Slight variations of tone/shade of brown/green for a few other "types" of home/offices tasks I like to differentiate/highlight. Now my list is so colourful and nice to look at. ;-}
Screenshot http://goo.gl/SjBQR .
February 2, 2012 at 6:38 |
sabre23t
sabre23t
I have tried separate notebooks, but I have to always have them both with me, as work and personal issues that need to be written down can come form a phone call or email anywhere.
Gerry
Gerry
February 2, 2012 at 16:01 |
Gerry
Gerry
I use ubi's old stalagmite/stalactite method whereby work items go from the top of the list downward, home items go from the bottom of the list upward. When the two meet I draw a heavy line between them and start a new page. It's easy to use and maintain and it lets me see the proportion of work and home tasks.
See http://www.markforster.net/forum/post/1577123#post1580873
See http://www.markforster.net/forum/post/1577123#post1580873
February 2, 2012 at 20:39 |
Zane
Zane
Zane,
Actually, I think the stalagmite/stalactite ("cave deposits") method was first described on this forum by Seraphim, if I'm not mistaken. Not sure if he invented it, or borrowed it from someone else.
Actually, I think the stalagmite/stalactite ("cave deposits") method was first described on this forum by Seraphim, if I'm not mistaken. Not sure if he invented it, or borrowed it from someone else.
February 2, 2012 at 21:39 |
ubi
ubi
Credit where credit is due:
"It was a suggestion of mine - though I hadn't actually tried it myself."
May 12, 2009 at 21:59 | Registered CommenterMark Forster
(on the stalactite/stalagmite method)
"It was a suggestion of mine - though I hadn't actually tried it myself."
May 12, 2009 at 21:59 | Registered CommenterMark Forster
(on the stalactite/stalagmite method)
February 2, 2012 at 22:13 |
Alan Baljeu
Alan Baljeu
Actually I think Mark was the first one to post the idea:
http://www.markforster.net/forum/post/623946#post624095
And "Natalia" was the first to use the nomenclature "stalagmite/stalactite":
http://www.markforster.net/forum/post/806245
http://www.markforster.net/forum/post/623946#post624095
And "Natalia" was the first to use the nomenclature "stalagmite/stalactite":
http://www.markforster.net/forum/post/806245
February 2, 2012 at 22:16 |
Seraphim
Seraphim
I think I suggested the idea of dividing the page in half, but someone else (I can't remember who) then suggested working from top and bottom and drawing the line where the page met.
So I can claim some of the credit, but not all.
So I can claim some of the credit, but not all.
February 2, 2012 at 23:56 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
I don't think I was the one that named it "stalagmite/stalactite". As far as I remember, my experiment did not last long. I probably ditched everything to go to AF2, but it would fall apart to me anyway -- too many open "home-stalactite" pages.
February 3, 2012 at 10:00 |
Natalia
Natalia
Let me just thank everyone then, including my mom...
I've been using the stalagmite/stalactite method for six months now with great success, but that may be because I limit the number of open pages I have. I can see how home items could be sprinkled across many open pages, and that would make me avoid my list.
I've been using the stalagmite/stalactite method for six months now with great success, but that may be because I limit the number of open pages I have. I can see how home items could be sprinkled across many open pages, and that would make me avoid my list.
February 3, 2012 at 20:37 |
Zane
Zane
I have one notebook (loose pages) with two sections, one for home, one for the office. The latter contains also private tasks I only can do during office hours (e.g. calling the insurance company). Since it's only one notebook I have both lists with me all the time.
I used to have only one list with mixed tasks since the publication of AF1, switched to separate lists this January. And I like it so far.
I used to have only one list with mixed tasks since the publication of AF1, switched to separate lists this January. And I like it so far.
February 9, 2012 at 19:55 |
Christian G.
Christian G.
Before deserting AF for the nightmare that is "Take Back Your Life" - a close cousin of GTD - I was using a single notebook for home and work. I used to find that I would quite frequently dismiss pages of "home " tasks when at work, so I often started the weekend or a free evening with a review of dismissed. Worked pretty well for me.
February 10, 2012 at 14:25 |
Will
Will
Ubi wrote: <<I like having all my items listed in the order I enter them. The colors make it easy to scan...>>
You might be right - I have to remember that I have benefited a lot from your previous posts. So I agree; every idea like that is worth a test. (Most of my 'best ideas' don't last too long, though; I am always struggling to keep myself from complicating things.)
For the work vs. personal thing, I am going to try another test: Brightly-coloured, tab-less divider sheets.
I basically use two notebooks, one with tabs for my favourite "elements" like my daily record of events (DRE's) (as they happen) with my own scribble and sketches (this is temporary, and for thinking and planning the day), a routine/checklist tab, a "scheduling/time blocks" tab, a free-form tab, a current project list tab (with notes), and a couple of others.
My second notebook is simply my AF notebook with a single tab for the backlog transition (I use Alan's ideas for this - like his 7-day-max active pages idea).
Anyway, I don't want these two notebooks to turn into four notebooks, so my test is to place a coloured plastic divider (a little bigger than A4-size) within each tab to separate work/personal.
I rather try these "tab-less' dividers to separate work/personal than add more tabs.
You might be right - I have to remember that I have benefited a lot from your previous posts. So I agree; every idea like that is worth a test. (Most of my 'best ideas' don't last too long, though; I am always struggling to keep myself from complicating things.)
For the work vs. personal thing, I am going to try another test: Brightly-coloured, tab-less divider sheets.
I basically use two notebooks, one with tabs for my favourite "elements" like my daily record of events (DRE's) (as they happen) with my own scribble and sketches (this is temporary, and for thinking and planning the day), a routine/checklist tab, a "scheduling/time blocks" tab, a free-form tab, a current project list tab (with notes), and a couple of others.
My second notebook is simply my AF notebook with a single tab for the backlog transition (I use Alan's ideas for this - like his 7-day-max active pages idea).
Anyway, I don't want these two notebooks to turn into four notebooks, so my test is to place a coloured plastic divider (a little bigger than A4-size) within each tab to separate work/personal.
I rather try these "tab-less' dividers to separate work/personal than add more tabs.
February 10, 2012 at 16:08 |
BKK
BKK
I work for myself - mostly from home - but am conscious that the two overlap a little too much at times. I can fully understand those who work for others outside of the home keeping separate notebooks/lists, but am not so sure it is clear cut for those if us who work from home.
I'd be very interested in everyone's thoughts on this and some of the reasoning behind your chosen method.