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I think it depends where you hang your hat. I've spent time at the Covey community - https://www.stephencovey.com/community/ - and Simpleology - http://www.simpleology.com/ - and you'll read about visioning, dreams, etc. Barbara Sher's Facebook page is full of people doing their past to recapture (the best) parts of themselves they abandoned in childhood.
My hunch is that most people are trying to bring a semblance of control over their very hectic lives. The luxury of dream contemplation is too rich (and painful) for many.
I don't know about adding a new forum. I actually wish that there was only one forum; it is better in my opinion that all discussions, FV and otherwise, be collated to one forum only.
And I agree with avrum. It is kinda like the difference with a fine cuisine meal and a fast food meal. It takes much preparation to make a fine cuisine meal compared to a fast food meal, taking time that (we think) we don't have.
But anyways, what is it with forums and coincidences? :D I re-read "Dreams" a few days ago and I thought of ways to integrate some of its ideas into the "productivity" systems inspired by Mark (specifically AF2ND). The system is still in its infancy, but the results are VERY interesting.
Doing what I was MEANT to do instead what I HAD to do means the best sleep I ever had in years :)
It doesn't seem to me that the real purpose of TM tools is "productivity", but rather "being on top of your work", as Mark writes in the DIT book. Part of everyone's work, unless one is independently wealthy and is waited upon by servants, is to take care of daily needs and tasks. One also needs to pay attention to little details like paying the rent, feeding the family, maintaining one's employability, etc.
Personally I think it's a lie to simply say "Do what you love, and the money will come." It never worked for me. :-) I guess that's because the world at large does not reward the love of ancient Greek and Russian literature, LOL! One also needs to find a way to integrate one's loves and dreams with the practical reality of everyday life. I think that is what Mark's TM systems all aim to achieve. The people who repeat that false proverb are the few who were able to actually do it. I believe one should be true to oneself and pursue one's deep interests and loves, but not to expect that financial reward (or even subsistence) will necessarily follow.
If one already has a strong practical common sense and has some experience of life, then maybe one can focus on one's dreams, and one's well-established habits will automatically take care of the business of existing. But if one (like myself) does not have that strong practical common sense but has an overly idealistic view of the world, one needs to find tools and systems and advice that will help fill those gaps so one can pursue one's larger goals more effectively.
I agree with Seraphim.
How easy it to dream up wonderful things to do, or to picture big out-of-reach things you want?
And how difficult is it to manage and do the billions of tasks between you and your dream/goal/outcome/result?
Which one gets higher priority? Which one should you invest more of your time developing effective strategies for? The dreaming or the doing?
Dreams are easy to manage, fun to think about, and a joy to experience, but the tasks required to achieve them are not.
Writing up a list of dreams and throwing unlimited amounts of cash at the list (and the other needs in your life) would be the most efficient strategy for making many of your dreams come true. Limited resources make this method difficult to sustain. When available, however, it is an excellent time management/dream accomplishment system.
For the rest of us, an effective self-management strategy is needed that helps us overcome our psychology and accomplish all the tedious tasks that lie between us and our outcomes/results/goals/dreams when faced with limited resources.
The more value you produce for others the more access you have to resources for your dreams. So you must produce more if you want more. You must be a producer.
How can one produce one's dreams if one is not productive?
Alright I'll just post what I have been doing for the past couple of days. It is still not completely developed so sorry if there will be some changes later on:
1. Choose your task from you usual Mark Forster-inspired list of tasks.
2. Devote one page of the back of your notebook to expound on what you want to eventually achieve starting with that one task. At the top of the page, write the specific task, and add enough space so that you can add additional tasks to the page. Always start with "I want..." The goal may be as modest or as grandiose, as general or as detailed as you would like it. The goal does not need to fill the whole page (actually it is better if it doesn't), just make sure it is just one goal per page.
For example (what I actually wrote in my notebook):
- clean dishes
I want my apartment to be something to be proud of. I want it also to be a place I can recharge in, and not a place that gives me headaches or makes me more tired and confused.
3. Now act, but NOT to do the task you selected before, but to fulfill the GOAL that was written. Therefore you may do beyond what you selected in your task list, or even not do the task but do something else that will fulfill that goal. For example, I may have selected "Clean dishes", but after writing that goal I also clean up the kitchen itself.
4. After finishing what you have to do, do not erase the goal description you have written, but go back to your task list and select another task.
5. If you select a task that can be added to a goal page you have made before, you may tag that goal with the task. You may also add a few new descriptions to the goal page, but for the moment do not erase anything yet except if some parts of the description have become erroneous or irrelevant.
For example, with the same example description above, I have added the task "clean up", and the addendum "I want to be able to find what I need quickly."
How about: "Do what you love, and you will lead a good life".
The money things is an excellent excuse to never do what you love. Unless you enjoy poverty, being a martyr, etc. For more on this, read almost anything by Barbara Sher.
Michael B. - I'd be curious to know if there's a correlation between discussing productivity tweaks, systems, etc, and accomplishing tedious tasks.
One of Mark's books (I forget which one), suggests that every day you write a future vision of yourself, and beside that a description of your actual situation. He calls them Future Self and Present Self. As you continue, you'll start to refine your Future Self and improve your Present Self. For example, Future Self might start with a huge castle and being able to find things. Meanwhile, Present self works on what he can -- the tidying. As things get tidier, Future Self realizes the real dream isn't the castle, it's free space, which is doable.
@Cricket: The book is "How to Make Your Dreams Come True" which is the book that michael was talking about and the book that I re-read coincidentally a few days ago. It can be downloaded free of charge here: http://www.markforster.net/how-to-make-your-dreams-come-t/
And yes I remember the Present vs Future Selves, and is actually one of the inspirations for this add-on to any system. You see, most of us already HAVE the Present Self write-up all prepared for us: our AF/DWM/SF/FV lists. The Present Self needs to do all of those, right? So we just have to make our Future Self write-up, hence the goal-writing.
Hmm...although I think I need to re-think how to write those goals into present-tense visions like in the book, instead of "I want" statements. Got myself too much into thinking of FV lately. Thanks Cricket, have to read and think some more.
"[Sentence 1] The money things is an excellent excuse to never do what you love. [Sentence 2] Unless you enjoy poverty, being a martyr, etc. For more on this, read almost anything by Barbara Sher."
... "For more on this" refers to Sentence 1 or 2?
"<< effective self-management strategy is needed that helps us overcome our psychology and accomplish all the tedious tasks>>
"I'd be curious to know if there's a correlation between discussing productivity tweaks, systems, etc, and accomplishing tedious tasks."
... Ha. Well, discussing systems and tweaks could be a major distraction from accomplishing your tedious tasks and outcomes, and might be a way to further procrastinate on your list!
On the other hand, if you're already accomplishing more than you have before through the use of a good system, but the system, or your use of it, can be improved in some way, a quality discussion can often lead to creative solutions and prove very helpful. It also makes for an interesting discussion at times.
Hearing that we have to drop the less-important things is bad news. We don't want to hear it. Even if the message is "focus on the important things", we still have to drop the others.
One, what are we missing out on that we should love it? There must be people out there who want this even tough they nothing of it. What's your hook, and how do you connect with people who would like such? ( this doesn't have to be about careers )
Two, I'm sure that literature must have lots of advice itself about our topic. Where does it point you?
Seraphim, what is it that you love about the ancient texts? What kind of people out there might also love what you've learned from them? I bet if you wanted you could convert your passion into more than just a private hobby. How can you share your passion?
On the subject of this thread, what do the old writers say about focusing on productivity or personal dreams?
YES! & made some comments on the other forum on this site on recent post, this is something I've been trying to do, they beg to be melded into one, so good to hear others feel same. not cracked it yet, so no brilliant examples ready.
2 thoughts on this from 2 books
first book don't know title, paging through in book store one day. 4 ways to get money:
born with, inherit
crime
luck
earn. & to earn you do something people need/want
second book, The $100 Dollar Startup
he mentions the do what you love.... he loves pizza & TV, so not going to work. says what you need to do is do something you love that OVERLAPS with something people need/want
If you do it for money, you have to do it in the way the client wants. I love knitting and storytelling. I don't love knitting in the currently-popular colours, and there are many storytelling gigs I just know will end badly. They're not my primary income. If I get a reputation for turning down jobs, it doesn't matter.
When I knit or storytell, it's for fun. They do all the things hobbies should do, without the pressure of income or reputation.
That's not to say you should choose a job just by potential income and aptitude. If you hate it, that's 8 hours a day of hate. Pick something you're comfortable with for the long-haul, and continue to learn and grow (kids permitting) so you stay flexible. Just don't put the entire income pressure on the thing that is supposed to refresh you.
1) thoughts, feelings, behaviours I DON'T want
2) thoughts, feelings, behaviours I DO want
Shockingly simple, surprisingly effective. Funny how I have this belief that complex solutions are likely to be better!
I mean, you want to offer this but is your audience interested to receive it? Will they like it, or will it be good for them? What will it be worth to them ($ or intangible good).
michael: Put your belief that complex solutions are better in column 1.