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Discussion Forum > My test of DIT

I completed my testing of DIT after rereading the book and wrote about my results on my blog http://wp.me/p2M4mD-Dr I was able to address some of the problems I had with it the last time I used it.

First, I did not put items from the backlog onto my task diary this time. I quickly overwhelmed myself with this last time. I also found that I couldn't add tasks to the diary once I'd started working on them, unless there was a time urgency. That was also going to end up overwhelming me.

Second, I realized that some opportunities have to be added to a list and not all automatically added to the diary. For example, I'm a blogger and am always finding guest post opportunities. I started off by adding them all to the task diary. Now I know I need to work from a list of possibilities during my scheduled blogging time.

After using DIT for a week, I'm wondering why it seems so many of us have abandoned it? Another thing I don't understand is why so many complain that it doesn't handle projects. If you want to have a means of tracking where you are in the project and all requisite steps, I don't see that as interfering with DIT at all. But that's just where I am with it right now.
March 31, 2013 at 0:43 | Unregistered CommenterMelanie Wilson
Hi Mel
Hear! Hear! I've been loving my modified version since 2007. The underlying principles of DIT are a strong guidance. Even though I've modified it to suit me, I've never deviated from the ruling principles. It is quite flexible yet allows me to stay current or ahead overall. My bending the rules didn't spoil it's functioning because the principles are so solid. It took me time to learn how to modify it to suit my needs and desires. I believe that DIT is Mark's masterpiece.
March 31, 2013 at 13:18 | Unregistered Commenterlearning as I go
One reason I personally love DIT is that it eliminates choice. What you do next is already arranged. And while in some situations you need to be flexible, by eliminating choices on what to do next, you waste less energy trying to choose what to do next. I also find making a DIT list helps me concentrate more and encourages me to get more work done on something than if I just use Autofocus, which usually encourages me to do a tiny bit of work and never touch it again that day.
March 31, 2013 at 16:17 | Unregistered CommenterHail2U!
"I personally love DIT is that it eliminates choice. "

I never understood this comment - about any productivity system. It is a fact that we all have a choice to follow or not the follow the rules. No one is going to arrest you, remove your children or provide a hefty fine if you choose to ignore David Allen, Mark Forster, etc. In general, it's the discipline of adhering to the rules, over time, that is an impediment for many people. Moreover, as Chris Edgar points out in Inner Productivity - http://innerproductivity.com/ :

"Even if we remove every possible distraction from our environment, we’ll still be left with our own minds. Even if we can’t flee from work by surfing the internet, we can always run away by daydreaming, reminiscing, making up worst-case scenarios"

From personal and professional experience, I think some combination of the following:

* Accountability
* Deadline(s)
* Passion/interest
* Mindfulness/Discipline

is required to do the things we set out to do. The rules are nice, but not necessary.
March 31, 2013 at 19:14 | Registered Commenteravrum
The main benefit to eliminating choice is to save on energy, basically. And by that I mean task choice. Of course, it doesn't always work out that way for me but I take it when I can.
March 31, 2013 at 19:31 | Unregistered CommenterHail2U!
Learning, I agree with you. It is his masterpiece. :-) I want to understand more how you approach DIT. Let's say you get an email today that requires more than an email response. You have to look for some information and then do some kind of task that will take some time. Do you commit to doing it this week then, rather than tomorrow?

Hail2U, I agree about the elimination of choice.That's hugely important as Mark writes in DIT. It enhances creativity (and reduces stress).

Avrum, I know what you're saying about our ability to blow off anyone's rules. I certainly can choose to do something other than what is on my DIT list, but that is where my breaks come in. It works beautifully. If there's something I want to do same-day (like check a website, return an email, look at a catalog), I just do it during my break time. I have much less trouble with distraction/rebellion then. DIT definitely advises taking breaks, so I am not doing anything in violation of the principles which bothers a lot of folks.
April 1, 2013 at 11:48 | Unregistered Commenterpsychowith6
Hi Mel
Only you can answer that. For myself, I'd consider how quickly I want to complete it with respect to how much is already on my plate. Secondly, I'd mentally compare it's importance to what's already planned. The whole idea for me is respectability and peace of mind for the other directed "must dos" and personal satisfaction and peace of mind for the others. Personal trajectory might be factored in with certain jobs: career, education,personal goals, etc.

I hate so say it but there's no written formula to judge relative importance.
April 1, 2013 at 13:33 | Unregistered Commenterlearning as I go
Learning, I meant in your weekly DIT process is that what you do? Plan to accomplish it that week, the earlier the better? I'm just trying to understand how weekly DIT works.
April 1, 2013 at 13:39 | Unregistered Commenterpsychowith6
p.s.
(please don't throw decaying vegetables at me)

If it's important enough to you and you don't want to bump anything else off your focus list, a little O.T. once in awhile never endangered anybody's health or well-being. I know it goes against the ideal of DIT, but sometimes life doesn't flow according to your productivity formula. When I was active in my career, continuing education and pursuing my talents, I did LOTS of O.T.......and I also took lots of vacations! The Golden Mean (the virtuous life on average)
April 1, 2013 at 13:46 | Unregistered Commenterlearning as I go
Hi Mel
Again, it's a judgement call. My decision can range from drop everything and do it NOW to add it to my weekly sheet and plug it in when my week allows for it. Peace of Mind and relative importance reside in your brain. You'll know when you're making good decisions overall.
April 1, 2013 at 13:49 | Unregistered Commenterlearning as I go
Oh Avrum.

You set yourself up so grandly.

I would laugh if I wasn't in the same boat.
April 1, 2013 at 22:34 | Registered Commenterneumatist
Hi
I think people think of discipline as some kind of oppressive straight jacket. I disagree. I think discipline is simply a synonym for determination.

Sometimes determination is needed to get over the hump of meeting responsibilities that aren't exciting or mastering a skill that requires over rehearsal to make it second nature.

Determination is simply me deciding that it's worth it to do what I've set out to do. It may be several hours of getting my taxes done on time. It maybe a few decades of mastering skill that helps me express my talents. The process of getting over the hump may be pure grunting but the determination you used is golden.

Sometimes the only way to be, get or do what you truly want requires wading through less than ideal experiences. Short term discipline by itself dissipates quickly. When you attach it to something that means something to you, it becomes determination.

It sounds corny but I believe that the confidence that determination brings also helps strengthen other virtues. Confidence, Courage, Dependability, Persistence, etc. I believe all success stems from determination.
April 2, 2013 at 0:54 | Unregistered Commenterlearning as I go
Numatist:

"You set yourself up so grandly"

Please explain.
April 2, 2013 at 3:13 | Registered Commenteravrum
Hi Avrum
If you set yourself up so grandly, then I'm set up as well. I concur except I can't comment on the book. (I never read it.) I can follow rules if I find that they serve me well. Otherwise...
April 2, 2013 at 6:11 | Unregistered Commenterlearning as I go
Hi Hail2U!
I'm not sure if I'm interpreting your statement correctly but I might agree with you. I failed miserably with AF1 because I did not like the randomness of it and having to decide each and every time I did a task. Like you said, it fatigues the brain to switch cognitive modes between scanning each page TWICE before you choose a task, do the task. Start again. scan the page twice. Decide on a task (standing out). Do the task.....on and on. It's much easier for me to have a flexible plan and work it. With AF1 I didn't have a definite target to aim at. When I have a plan my brain isn't as exhausted and It makes the day end quicker also. To me it totally chopped up my focus and started weakening my resolve. If that's what you meant, I agree. If you meant to simply follow the rules, then we part company. I'm guilty of radically changing some of the rules to better suit both my thinking style and my working style. Even so, I still think DIT is Mark's greatest contribution.
April 2, 2013 at 6:32 | Unregistered Commenterlearning as I go
Avrum wrote:

"In general, it's the discipline of adhering to the rules, over time, that is an impediment for many people. . . .
From personal and professional experience, I think some combination of the following:
* Accountability
* Deadline(s)
* Passion/interest
* Mindfulness/Discipline
is required to do the things we set out to do. The rules are nice, but not necessary."

I love Avrum. He got me using Evernote for task management and it has been an incredible boon ever since. Because I love him, I take his argument very seriously. What follows is my defense of rules.

I agree that I would love to "do the things" I "set out to do" without imposing rules on myself. But I know, from decades of experience, that I cannot.

What do "accountability," "deadlines," "mindfulness/discipline" mean? They sound to me an awful lot like self-imposed rules.

Here's the problem. When the day has not yet begun, I have an idea of what I want to do. These are the things that I "set out to do." But there is always, in me, a conflict between what I want to do, when that to-do time is in the future, and what I want to do, when that to-do time is now.

At 7 am, the thing that I value highly today, and what I set out to do today, is review the tax payments. But at 9:30 am, when I am at my desk deciding what to do right now, all kinds of things other than tax reviewing have much higher value for me, right now, than tax reviewing.

I am moises and I have a problem. With alcoholic beverages, I don't have a problem. I can do whatever I feel like with regard to alcoholic beverages, and I never get into trouble. But at work, if I do whatever I feel like, I do get into trouble.

The solution to my work problem is to establish patterns so that when I make a decision, it is not a decision about what to do RIGHT NOW, but a decision about how to behave over a longer stretch of time. These decisions are called rules.

Howard Rachlin cites a study of cigarette smokers who are not trying to quit smoking. Researchers tell people to record how many cigarettes they smoke on Monday so that they can use that number to determine how many cigarettes to smoke each day for the rest of the week Tuesday through Sunday. They need to continue recording their daily cigarette number. They are told that the study's goal is to determine how much their daily cigarette total will vary.

They all end up smoking less during the study week than they had been smoking before the study. Why? Because each smoke is no longer an individual act of smoking, decided right now about right now. Instead, each smoke is understood as part of a larger pattern that can be determined only by using a broader time horizon (every day this week). This wider perspective is induced by creating, and following rules.

Avrum does raise the problem that we are free to break rules that we impose on ourselves. And this is correct. Just like we can commit to accountability, deadlines, and mindfulness/discipline and go on to act unaccountably, miss deadlines, and behave in a mindless and undisciplined fashion.

Since, we seem to agree that we want to be accountable and disciplined, it is now an empirical question. What methods increase accountability and discipline?

There is a lot of research in this area. And some of the results are rather clear.

Monitoring behavior increases accountability and discipline. When people write down the things they are doing or have done, even if there are no other rules guiding what they do, they behave in a more accountable and disciplined fashion.

Reducing variability and choice also increase accountability and discipline. Remember the smokers? They were not trying to smoke less. But when they were told to try to smoke the same number of cigarettes each day, they did smoke less. This works not just for smoking, but any other vice.

What distinguishes Mark's systems from GTD is that they reduce variability. I was a GTDer for years before I had heard of Mark. I had all my projects and tasks written and entered in my system. But I was free, at any moment, to do whatever I wanted to do at that moment. I did not reduce my choices. So, I often made bad choices. I would often choose the option that had a lot of value at this instant, but had very low value when looked at from the perspective of hours or days.

All of Mark's systems reduce choice. Usually they do this by restricting the order in which tasks are acted upon. They restrict the order in which tasks are acted upon by creating rules specifying the order in which tasks are accomplished.

Avrum is right, we can violate our rules. But the solution is not therefore to throw out rules. The solution is to stack the odds in a way that we are likely to adhere to the rules.

If we create the rules in a way that allows us to change our perspective from 15 seconds to 15 minutes, we might find that we can do the things we set out to do by following the rules we set out to follow.
April 2, 2013 at 14:28 | Registered Commentermoises
This is a quote I ran across somewhere: "Discipline is remembering what you want."
April 2, 2013 at 15:15 | Registered CommenterMike Brown
Hi moises
I don't know about fancy psychological research. All I know is that a flexible plan works great for me. Even if I hate doing some of the work, what keeps me determined is to KNOW WHY I've chosen to do it. i.e. what virtue does it uphold in me, what passion does it ignite, what need or desire does it fulfill. I've always bitched about scut but I do it any way because there's a reason that I bother with it. It's always attached somehow to something or someone I value. It can be something as mundane as scrupulously doing my taxes and getting them submitted on time for no other reason than to avoid being red flagged. Or it could be withstanding mind-numbing boredom and physical agony as part of the path to mastery. All I know is that when I remind myself WHY I'm bothering with anything unpleasant or even painful, the determination strengthens. I'm naturally curious, impatient and have a very low tolerance for boredom. The willingness to not react to my restlessness (physical cue to escape) HAS TO HAVE A GOOD REASON for me to do that to myself. Same thing with actual physical pain or the necessity to isolate myself for long periods of time and just pray that people understand. Without a good reason WHY, I freely abandon much of what people expect of me. Fortunately I don't have to do that to myself. (When I was a child my dad used to joke that my middle name should be "WHY?" LOL! I'm still like that!
April 2, 2013 at 15:25 | Unregistered Commenterlearning as I go
Hi Mike
Exactly....but I need to add for myself WHY I want it. (I'm stubborn that way.)
April 2, 2013 at 15:27 | Unregistered Commenterlearning as I go
learning: Yeah, that's what I meant. Changing rules to suit you is also good, but the less time you spend deciding on what to do, the better, especially on-the-fly. Plus, under DIT I'm encouraged to complete a bigger chunk of work, because with AF I always break it up to the tiniest thing possible and then move along.

Of course, dissolving resistance is something AF does easier than DIT, which is why I use whatever resistance-dissolving techniques I can.
April 2, 2013 at 15:36 | Unregistered CommenterHail2U!
Hi Hail2U!
Yes! Unless it's the law of the land or local law or actual company policy for a job that I want to keep, most "rules" are simply guidelines to expedite my work and make sure that I'm not forgetting/neglecting something important to me (or my boss when I was employed or did contract work.)

If I'm doing work that relies on exercising critical thought or unleashing creativity, I need some kind of unfettered flow. A flexible plan gives me what to think about, what to consider and what to do. AF might be OK for picking off scut tasks or for people who don't need an overview as much as I do. It's not an option for me. That's how my brain operates. Even if I have a lot of scut to pick off, don't laugh, but I can actually finish it faster if I use my whiteboard to help create a map in my head. Either way the work gets done, but it's so much easier if the work is presented in a way that my brain naturally functions.

With brain injuries, decision making is especially stressful when my short term memory leaves me clueless. It's not just about forgetting what to do but forgetting why I'm doing it! LOL! What used to be a preference is now a necessity.
April 2, 2013 at 15:55 | Unregistered Commenterlearning as I go
Moises:

<<I love Avrum>>

With your permission, I'd like to use this as a testimonial for my upcoming book ;)

<<What methods increase accountability and discipline?Monitoring behavior increases accountability and discipline. >>

I agree. I think one aspect of therapy that is helpful is the regularity of appointments, a scheduled space/time to reflect on what we believe and stand for vs what we have done.

And while I'm both a consumer and service provider of therapy, I also use Joe's Goals, etc., to bring some accountability and mindfulness to this process.

As an aside, my original comment wasn't about abandoning rules, but expressing skepticism of what they can do for us. My hunch is that people - myself included - confuse the honeymoon phase of adopting a productivity system or hack, with real thinking or behavioural change. As Dave Seah said: "Get back to me in 3 weeks and we'll talk".

<<All of Mark's systems reduce choice>>

Again, we agree. Which is why my current GTD-lite setup is bolstered by DWM rules. I've basically discarded most of D. Allen's "what to do" suggestions in place of Mark's recommendation to rely on intuition, little and often and dismissal.
April 2, 2013 at 15:57 | Registered Commenteravrum
Hi Hail2U!

I'm not sure if this will help you but sometimes I just plain don't want to get started on a task because my mind is already biased against it. If I'm in a desperate enough state, I'll commit to only doing the first step of the first task. Example: Get the supplies out.

Sometimes this in enough to engage my mind to do more. If not, I'll pick off a task with creates much less anxiety.

Then I'll rotate back to the original task and do the next STEP of the first task. Example: Turn to the page I'm on.

Rinse and repeat. What usually happens is that I'll eventually get annoyed with always having to rotate back to the dreaded work and just finish it enough to feel satisfied enough for today. I'm not sure what causes me to finally get annoyed with it enough to finally finish it but it works...not always quickly. Sometimes I have to do a few rounds of it to get disgusted enough with the slow progress and always knowing that it's still there until I've done enough. I suppose that I want it out of the way so that I can better enjoy some of my other work. For me anyway, it's all about shutting up the nagging in my brain. If I don't do it, it taints every experience until I feel OK with today's progress. If I still feel high resistance yet I really want to do X amount of work on it, I can't even enjoy breaks. It's like I'm imprisoned in a sort of quasi-satisfied state until I get it out of the way. That's why I like my weekly format and roundup days for stuff I don't enjoy doing. It gives me flexibility about how to approach the work. Usually incremental progress works OK. I try to advance it enough so that on it's roundup day (fake deadline), I don't feel as much overwhelm.

If I'm really desperate enough to break through a hard case of resistance, I'll play a game. Each time I approach the task I win a point and attach 10" to the point. If I FINISH it quicker than multiplying the points times ten, then I'll give myself a carrot. $1,000 or an extra day off.
Gaming it helps to distract my from my attitude and engage my competitive spirit.

Maybe you can find some sort of way to either incrementally reduce the resistance or simply make completion a competition with a reward what's worth grunting for. LOL!
April 2, 2013 at 17:06 | Unregistered Commenterlearning as I go
learning: That rotating task thing sounds interesting. I'll try it sometime.
April 2, 2013 at 17:47 | Unregistered CommenterHail2U!
Hi Haul2U!
LOL! It's sort like a supercharged version of C2. This way you have to do something on it after each task in C1. (SF3). When the simple first step actually pumps your brain enough to actually engage in doing the work, it's great. If not, it gets really annoying! LOL! I think the tipping point is when switching back to it ad nauseam creates more resistance than actually doing the work. LOL! Hey, I'm not proud. I'll whatever it takes to get done.
April 2, 2013 at 18:04 | Unregistered Commenterlearning as I go
Interesting discussion. I think a key reason DIT is working for me now as opposed to the past is that I only require myself to do *something* on each task on the list. Often I realize though that if I don't finish the task, it will be on the list again tomorrow, so I will go ahead and knock it out.
April 2, 2013 at 20:07 | Unregistered Commenterpsychowith6
Hi Avrum

I'm embarrassed by my inability to refrain from being facetious, but the 'you set yourself up so grandly' comment was in relation to your rather bold announcement to leave this forum and "continue these discussions on GTD Connect Forum". (You may, of course, have made mention of your return in a less recent thread than this one, but I'm less vigilant in my checking of threads these days, and this was first time I'd come across your return).

However, this thread - and the appropriate recognition you've received - has set off in a far healthier and more generous direction, so I don't wish to take it off course.

And please know, my laughter was light-hearted, and directed as much at myself as it was at you.
April 2, 2013 at 21:45 | Registered Commenterneumatist
I'm pleased to read about everyone's experiences with DIT. For my part I've gone back even further and am using "Get Everything Done" with some additional twists - so far with great success. Hopefully I'll be in a position to post something about it in a few days' time.
April 2, 2013 at 23:14 | Registered CommenterMark Forster
Hi Mark
Always in the laboratory. I never read the first book. How is it different from DIT?
April 2, 2013 at 23:55 | Unregistered Commenterlearning as I go
That would take me about 100 pages to explain!

Suffice it to say that most of the revolutionary ideas which other authors come up with, such as timeboxing, Pomodoro, etc, were to be found in it first.
April 3, 2013 at 0:01 | Registered CommenterMark Forster
Warning: land mind of typos and drug laced thinking....

Hi Mark
Pomodoro is just a spin on time boxing. My dad taught me time blocks in the 1950s. People have been blocking off time on their calendars probably since people got busy enough lives to need to organize their time more accurately . When I was more active, I practically lived out of my calendar. Probably every student time blocks as well. I'm not talking about people who just go from appointment to appointment. Time blocking other things also. Deadlines, rehearsal time, any preparation to meet appointments or deadlines.

Things like Pomodoro are just variation formulas to include breaks. A 5 minute break? GEEZ! I'd rather continue on and get a better break later. A 5 minute break would just annoy me! LOL

I don't even put your ideas in the same class as these spit and polishers. Most of the shiny new productivity ideas are just old stuff remarketed. You, on the other hand, offered a fresh perspective and innovative thinking. And like no other productivy expert, you freely say when an idea isn't yours. I wish more of these people had your innovation and ethics. You sure helped me tremendously and I wholeheartedly thank you.

Is it an actual system? I prefer the principles that guide building a system like you did in DIT. If you say GED is even more brilliant that DIT, you've got my interest!
April 3, 2013 at 1:58 | Unregistered Commenterlearning as I go
learning:

Time blocking and time boxing are not the same thing.

No, GED is not more brilliant than DIT - after all DIT came later - just different. And yes, it was a system.
April 3, 2013 at 11:35 | Registered CommenterMark Forster
Hi Mark
I don't know all the words but I use the words interchangeably. It either devotes a time on the calendar and/or it restricts how much time to spend on an area of focus. Example: accounts about 2 hours a week. I instinctively choose the most consequential ones first than work down. It's wonderful not to feel compelled to read prospectus and progress reports, new services available, etc. I know it's silly but I had to learn how to cut out lots of stuff. This also pertains to house care. I could spend forever keeping everything spotless and almost surgically clean. (I used to feel compelled to uphold those kinds of standards.) So if I see X hours on Y area of focus or project, it both preserves the time in my day and also forces me to get the biggest bang for my buck time and effort wise. I'm sure most people don't have to learn things the hard way like I do.

I'm sure that the difference will impact people differently. Some people swear by your different systems. AF and different series of AF, DIT, SF series (derivative of AF), DWM et al. I'm a bit greedy. I'll take a bit from whichever one suits a particular need. Hail2U! stated that quite well in that he uses DIT or AF depending on what he needs to accomplish.

I'm actually a bit excited to see what you present to us. Everything you've presented has helped many people. I'd venture to say that most people on this forum use some bits of your principles and/or procedures to help them.
April 3, 2013 at 19:19 | Unregistered Commenterlearning as I go
learning:

What you've described is time blocking, which as you say has been around for a long time.

Time boxing is a different technique. I describe various methods of using it in Get Everything Done, though I don't actually call it time boxing.
April 4, 2013 at 12:45 | Registered CommenterMark Forster
Hi Mark
I've always understood time boxing as restricting the amount of time spent on a project or area of focus. It could be defined around a deadline or an area of focus. It usually forces one to get down to the most important stuff to meet deadline rather than straying off wasting time on less important aspects. I used to work in a heavily deadline driven environment. Sometimes I had to settle for excellent work rather than reaching for perfection. Also for scut, it helps me to weed out work that I don't need to do or at least do it at longer intervals. In 1969 Computer science was a relatively new university major. The computers were feed data cards punched in binary code. It's very easy to get "lost" on coding, debugging, etc. Time boxing is the new word for time blocking. I.e. restricting how much time spent on different aspects of a project to have a usable product within deadline date. I simply extend it to other areas of living as well. Another example is authors using a timeline to write their books or an artist commissioned to produce a work of art. In these cases, we might time block the scut to allow for maximum time to engage in flow.

I'm not up to date on the various newist words but I think I have the basic principles and implementation possibilities correct. Preserve time in a calendar, create an incremental time line to meet deadline and restrict hours worked on something to either meet deadline or avoid wasting extra time on it.

That's basically it. Variations are many.
April 4, 2013 at 14:45 | Unregistered Commenterlearning as I go