Discussion Forum > The What-For
This article interests me as I've found the following thinking process powerful at clarifying where I really want to go and generating better task lists and strategies to get there than by first asking "What to do?":
1. What do I really want?
2. Why do I want this?
Answers to which result in a better answer to the last question:
3. What specific things could I do to make that happen?
1. What do I really want?
2. Why do I want this?
Answers to which result in a better answer to the last question:
3. What specific things could I do to make that happen?
December 4, 2013 at 8:38 |
Michael B.
Michael B.
For instance, the temperature was going to drop below freezing today, so this morning I captured the task:
Check antifreeze
But I didn't do that task. Instead, I used that task, and any similar ones, as a springboard to a higher-level of thinking, seeing the tasks as clusters of outcomes, and asking:
1. What do I really want?
Easily and quickly winterized vehicles by tonight.
2. Why do I want this?
• No burst heater core
• No water damage
• Easy while warm
• Reliable transport
• Doors easily open
• Tools within reach
3. What specific things could I do to make that happen?
I might have just "checked the antifreeze", but instead look at everything that wasn't even on my list until I knew what I really wanted and why:
Check antifreeze
Verify antifreeze protection level
Run engine to circulate antifreeze and oil
Replace wiper fluid with antifreeze wiper fluid
Google "rubbing alcohol to wiper fluid?"
Top off gas tank
Oil hinges and locks
Remove water bottles
Ice scraper to front
New hood bulb
To TM forum: remove water bottles from cars! (Pow. Done!)
Check antifreeze
But I didn't do that task. Instead, I used that task, and any similar ones, as a springboard to a higher-level of thinking, seeing the tasks as clusters of outcomes, and asking:
1. What do I really want?
Easily and quickly winterized vehicles by tonight.
2. Why do I want this?
• No burst heater core
• No water damage
• Easy while warm
• Reliable transport
• Doors easily open
• Tools within reach
3. What specific things could I do to make that happen?
I might have just "checked the antifreeze", but instead look at everything that wasn't even on my list until I knew what I really wanted and why:
Check antifreeze
Verify antifreeze protection level
Run engine to circulate antifreeze and oil
Replace wiper fluid with antifreeze wiper fluid
Google "rubbing alcohol to wiper fluid?"
Top off gas tank
Oil hinges and locks
Remove water bottles
Ice scraper to front
New hood bulb
To TM forum: remove water bottles from cars! (Pow. Done!)
December 4, 2013 at 9:53 |
Michael B.
Michael B.
Michael B:
I think I'd have written "Prepare Cars for Winter" as a task on my AF list and then worked off a project sheet. A project sheet is just a list of tasks which you add to as you think of them. The advantage is that you don't have to spend time at the beginning thinking. You can just get straight to work and the list will expand naturally as you work.
I think I'd have written "Prepare Cars for Winter" as a task on my AF list and then worked off a project sheet. A project sheet is just a list of tasks which you add to as you think of them. The advantage is that you don't have to spend time at the beginning thinking. You can just get straight to work and the list will expand naturally as you work.
December 4, 2013 at 15:29 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
<<where I really want to go and generating better task lists >>
Michael - I agree with your overall thinking on this, though I'm less keen on internal dialoguing or journaling (though I do it). I agree with Barbara Sher that "isolation is a dream killer" and that support and accountability is one of the best ways to head towards one's North Star.
Michael - I agree with your overall thinking on this, though I'm less keen on internal dialoguing or journaling (though I do it). I agree with Barbara Sher that "isolation is a dream killer" and that support and accountability is one of the best ways to head towards one's North Star.
December 4, 2013 at 16:04 |
avrum
avrum
Sounds close to Tony Robbins ideas and the concept of RPM. Focus on the What you want. Then solidify it by Why you want it. Then How you get there comes tertiary. Your how will can be overloaded with activity but you should focus on the 20% that'll return 80%.
RPM- Results oriented (What), Purpose Driven (Why), Massive action plan (How).
Similarly, Tim Ferris mentioned to always remember What you do is more important than How you do it. In other words, efficacy>efficiency.
-----
Applying this, has simplified productivity for me. I still use my Get technique for task lists to drive home the point as to 'What result I want'. But on a higher scale, such as goals/ life-results/life-purpose, it takes much more thought and deep thinking.
RPM- Results oriented (What), Purpose Driven (Why), Massive action plan (How).
Similarly, Tim Ferris mentioned to always remember What you do is more important than How you do it. In other words, efficacy>efficiency.
-----
Applying this, has simplified productivity for me. I still use my Get technique for task lists to drive home the point as to 'What result I want'. But on a higher scale, such as goals/ life-results/life-purpose, it takes much more thought and deep thinking.
December 4, 2013 at 18:13 |
GMBW
GMBW
Michael:
Coincidentally I was reading Mark's "Dreams" book today where he deals with the example of wanting £1 million and then going on to ask himself (in your terms) "what for"? I think that knowing how you expect something to benefit you - ie why you really want it - is important; it stimulates reflection and reconsideration. Maybe the best answer to that is because I love and appreciate who I am and I want to express it!
Mark has another example (in a slightly different form) in the article "Keeping markers aligned" http://markforster.squarespace.com/blog/2009/9/1/keeping-ones-markers-aligned.html
eg
Going to gym
Going to gym ———————> Increased energy for work
I was pondering the same point regarding my AF list the other day. A lot of what's on the list is reactive to external demands. Some is creative and moving toward goals. I'm wondering how to tweak my AF list to incorporate "What For?"
Coincidentally I was reading Mark's "Dreams" book today where he deals with the example of wanting £1 million and then going on to ask himself (in your terms) "what for"? I think that knowing how you expect something to benefit you - ie why you really want it - is important; it stimulates reflection and reconsideration. Maybe the best answer to that is because I love and appreciate who I am and I want to express it!
Mark has another example (in a slightly different form) in the article "Keeping markers aligned" http://markforster.squarespace.com/blog/2009/9/1/keeping-ones-markers-aligned.html
eg
Going to gym
Going to gym ———————> Increased energy for work
I was pondering the same point regarding my AF list the other day. A lot of what's on the list is reactive to external demands. Some is creative and moving toward goals. I'm wondering how to tweak my AF list to incorporate "What For?"
December 4, 2013 at 18:44 |
michael
michael
I'm sorry to sound a bit cynical here, but the net result of Michael B.'s "What for?" exercise was an additional ten tasks over and above "Check Antifreeze".
And now michael is going to use "What for?" in order to *reduce* the number of tasks that are reactive to external demands?
And now michael is going to use "What for?" in order to *reduce* the number of tasks that are reactive to external demands?
December 4, 2013 at 20:16 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
I think I misinterpreted the excercise's purpose. I think 'what for' is useful for higher level items, like goals. For simple tasks like 'check antifreeze', it should be simple enough to do it and get it over with.
December 4, 2013 at 20:36 |
GMBW
GMBW
Mark:
"I think I'd have written "Prepare Cars for Winter" as a task on my AF list and then worked off a project sheet. A project sheet is just a list of tasks which you add to as you think of them. The advantage is that you don't have to spend time at the beginning thinking. You can just get straight to work and the list will expand naturally as you work."
It might help to compare Mark and I to better understand why systematizing thinking about a greater end result can be beneficial:
First
Mark: Thinks, "I should check the car's antifreeze."
Me: Thinks, "I should check the car's antifreeze."
Second
Mark: Writes down "Prepare Cars for Winter" because he knows the bigger picture of that task as thinking in greater end results is ingrained in him.
Me: Writes down "Check Antifreeze" because he does not know the bigger picture of that task beyond "to protect the heater core and engine from freezing weather", as thinking in greater end results is not ingrained in him. He does not think to prepare the car for winter beyond that specific what and why.
Third
Mark: Creates a project sheet titled "Prepare Cars for Winter" and lists tasks that could make that happen as they occur to him, while he takes action.
Me: Creates a project sheet titled "Prepared Cars for Winter" and lists tasks that could make that happen as they occur to him, while he takes action, after having first asked himself what the bigger picture of that task really is. Is it just to ensure he doesn't blow his heater core? Or, is there some greater more important result?
Conclusion
Mark: He's focused on the greater end result without needing to systematize that thinking as it's ingrained in him.
Me: He's focused on the greater end result with a system of thinking as it's not ingrained in him.
"I think I'd have written "Prepare Cars for Winter" as a task on my AF list and then worked off a project sheet. A project sheet is just a list of tasks which you add to as you think of them. The advantage is that you don't have to spend time at the beginning thinking. You can just get straight to work and the list will expand naturally as you work."
It might help to compare Mark and I to better understand why systematizing thinking about a greater end result can be beneficial:
First
Mark: Thinks, "I should check the car's antifreeze."
Me: Thinks, "I should check the car's antifreeze."
Second
Mark: Writes down "Prepare Cars for Winter" because he knows the bigger picture of that task as thinking in greater end results is ingrained in him.
Me: Writes down "Check Antifreeze" because he does not know the bigger picture of that task beyond "to protect the heater core and engine from freezing weather", as thinking in greater end results is not ingrained in him. He does not think to prepare the car for winter beyond that specific what and why.
Third
Mark: Creates a project sheet titled "Prepare Cars for Winter" and lists tasks that could make that happen as they occur to him, while he takes action.
Me: Creates a project sheet titled "Prepared Cars for Winter" and lists tasks that could make that happen as they occur to him, while he takes action, after having first asked himself what the bigger picture of that task really is. Is it just to ensure he doesn't blow his heater core? Or, is there some greater more important result?
Conclusion
Mark: He's focused on the greater end result without needing to systematize that thinking as it's ingrained in him.
Me: He's focused on the greater end result with a system of thinking as it's not ingrained in him.
December 5, 2013 at 2:01 |
Michael B.
Michael B.
Avrum:
"I'm less keen on internal dialoguing or journaling (though I do it). I agree with Barbara Sher that "isolation is a dream killer" and that support and accountability is one of the best ways to head towards one's North Star."
I met her years ago at a seminar. We stood in a smaller group at the end, about 15 of us, and we bounced ideas back and forth with her. She advised each of us personally. She was really professional, but real, and funny.
She was so proud of showing the crowd during the seminar that with enough people in a room you could come up with any desire, and if the people in that room were freely giving, openly communicative, and non-cliquey, anything anyone wanted to make happen could be made to happen, right now.
"I'm less keen on internal dialoguing or journaling (though I do it). I agree with Barbara Sher that "isolation is a dream killer" and that support and accountability is one of the best ways to head towards one's North Star."
I met her years ago at a seminar. We stood in a smaller group at the end, about 15 of us, and we bounced ideas back and forth with her. She advised each of us personally. She was really professional, but real, and funny.
She was so proud of showing the crowd during the seminar that with enough people in a room you could come up with any desire, and if the people in that room were freely giving, openly communicative, and non-cliquey, anything anyone wanted to make happen could be made to happen, right now.
December 5, 2013 at 2:30 |
Michael B.
Michael B.
GMBW:
"Sounds close to Tony Robbins ideas and the concept of RPM. Applying this, has simplified productivity for me."
Ha. The process I was describing *is* RPM. I thought it was obvious.
1. Capture tasks.
2. Group related tasks together on a project sheet/sheet of paper/index card.
3. Look at the grouped tasks and ask:
• What do I really want?
• Or more specifically: What's the outcome I want?
• Or even more specifically: What's the most important result I want from this group of tasks for this day/week to feel both successful and fulfilling?
4. Write this result down to the right of your grouped tasks, in the center of the page. Circle the result.
5. Write down a few short emotionally motivating reasons why you want this result to the right of the result, so you can motivate yourself now and later if resistance sets in.
6. Add more tasks to your grouped task list as they occur to you if they'll get you your result.
7. Start on the 20% of tasks that will get you your result the quickest and drop the rest.
8. Stay focused on your target, the result, not the tasks, so that if another set of tasks occurs to you that could get you your result quicker, you can easily drop the previous list and do those as you're not attached to the specific tasks. You're attached to the end result, not the specific map of activity that gets you there. This way your plan is flexible. There are all sorts of ways to get the same result. If you don't succeed in getting your result, change your map until you do.
It's very easy to write down "buy new running shoes" and then drive to town hunting for shoes when what you really want isn't to "buy new running shoes" or even "run to improve health", it's really to "easily make progress on my physical health and enjoy the process" which might well mean coming up with an entirely different set of actions to get you there and dropping the "new shoes" task entirely.
Some would say "Just be more clear about what you really want when writing down tasks". But that's the point. If you systematize that, eventually you *will* be more clear about what you really want.
An RPM block is basically a project sheet with three columns and the answers to three questions which provide clarity, motivation, and often an improved task list that you do less of.
"Sounds close to Tony Robbins ideas and the concept of RPM. Applying this, has simplified productivity for me."
Ha. The process I was describing *is* RPM. I thought it was obvious.
1. Capture tasks.
2. Group related tasks together on a project sheet/sheet of paper/index card.
3. Look at the grouped tasks and ask:
• What do I really want?
• Or more specifically: What's the outcome I want?
• Or even more specifically: What's the most important result I want from this group of tasks for this day/week to feel both successful and fulfilling?
4. Write this result down to the right of your grouped tasks, in the center of the page. Circle the result.
5. Write down a few short emotionally motivating reasons why you want this result to the right of the result, so you can motivate yourself now and later if resistance sets in.
6. Add more tasks to your grouped task list as they occur to you if they'll get you your result.
7. Start on the 20% of tasks that will get you your result the quickest and drop the rest.
8. Stay focused on your target, the result, not the tasks, so that if another set of tasks occurs to you that could get you your result quicker, you can easily drop the previous list and do those as you're not attached to the specific tasks. You're attached to the end result, not the specific map of activity that gets you there. This way your plan is flexible. There are all sorts of ways to get the same result. If you don't succeed in getting your result, change your map until you do.
It's very easy to write down "buy new running shoes" and then drive to town hunting for shoes when what you really want isn't to "buy new running shoes" or even "run to improve health", it's really to "easily make progress on my physical health and enjoy the process" which might well mean coming up with an entirely different set of actions to get you there and dropping the "new shoes" task entirely.
Some would say "Just be more clear about what you really want when writing down tasks". But that's the point. If you systematize that, eventually you *will* be more clear about what you really want.
An RPM block is basically a project sheet with three columns and the answers to three questions which provide clarity, motivation, and often an improved task list that you do less of.
December 5, 2013 at 4:17 |
Michael B.
Michael B.
Mark:
"...the net result of Michael B.'s "What for?" exercise was an additional ten tasks over and above "Check Antifreeze"."
Another way to look at the net result is:
• An additional ten tasks, of which 20% may get you your higher level result quicker than the one you had listed.
• Intrinsic motivation because "Checking Antifreeze" may not be something you particularly want to do, nor may it be motivating to think you're just crossing off another "have to do", another "demand" from your environment. But now that it's part of a bigger connected whole that you *do* want to do, you may find yourself doing the task quickly because you're motivated by the bigger whole you're accomplishing. And because your focus is on your result, and not the activity which can change, you may come up with a better set of tasks that produces your result faster than the original task you had listed.
"...the net result of Michael B.'s "What for?" exercise was an additional ten tasks over and above "Check Antifreeze"."
Another way to look at the net result is:
• An additional ten tasks, of which 20% may get you your higher level result quicker than the one you had listed.
• Intrinsic motivation because "Checking Antifreeze" may not be something you particularly want to do, nor may it be motivating to think you're just crossing off another "have to do", another "demand" from your environment. But now that it's part of a bigger connected whole that you *do* want to do, you may find yourself doing the task quickly because you're motivated by the bigger whole you're accomplishing. And because your focus is on your result, and not the activity which can change, you may come up with a better set of tasks that produces your result faster than the original task you had listed.
December 5, 2013 at 6:04 |
Michael B.
Michael B.
GMBW:
"I think I misinterpreted the exercise's purpose. I think 'what for' is useful for higher level items, like goals."
... Since what I described is RPM and you seem to know RPM, you would know that it's not used primarily *for* higher level items, like goals, but rather is used to *create* higher level items from a capture list of tasks, projects, results, outcomes, goals, wants, and needs. You then group that capture list and turn each group into a higher level result or pick out the goals, projects, results or outcomes and group single tasks with them.
"For simple tasks like 'check antifreeze', it should be simple enough to do it and get it over with."
Simple enough until you look at a list of 70 simple tasks that should be simple enough to do. When using RPM if there are single tasks on your long capture list that can't be grouped you use that one single task to create a higher level item and then add that task to that result block and brainstorm other possible ways of getting that higher level result, adding to the list as they occur to you. No tasks should remain on your capture list, they should all be grouped into an RPM block/project sheet.
"I think I misinterpreted the exercise's purpose. I think 'what for' is useful for higher level items, like goals."
... Since what I described is RPM and you seem to know RPM, you would know that it's not used primarily *for* higher level items, like goals, but rather is used to *create* higher level items from a capture list of tasks, projects, results, outcomes, goals, wants, and needs. You then group that capture list and turn each group into a higher level result or pick out the goals, projects, results or outcomes and group single tasks with them.
"For simple tasks like 'check antifreeze', it should be simple enough to do it and get it over with."
Simple enough until you look at a list of 70 simple tasks that should be simple enough to do. When using RPM if there are single tasks on your long capture list that can't be grouped you use that one single task to create a higher level item and then add that task to that result block and brainstorm other possible ways of getting that higher level result, adding to the list as they occur to you. No tasks should remain on your capture list, they should all be grouped into an RPM block/project sheet.
December 5, 2013 at 7:21 |
Michael B.
Michael B.
Having said all that I've said in this entire thread, it should be noted that I've been trying to distill the best of what works for me in RPM (and I mean the entire program, not just the three questions and three columns, but all of the little details and distinctions from the 10-day audio program, workbook, summary cards, video seminars as well as personal observations and refinements) down to something that can be elegantly integrated into one of Mark's systems.
I think Mark's and Anthony Robbins' systems are the closest in psychology than any others. They both use unfiltered capture, a series of closed-lists, take human emotions and procrastination into careful consideration, use a flexible approach, and operate primarily on a pull principle rather than push, while narrowing down to the important and taking care of the urgent.
I think Mark's and Anthony Robbins' systems are the closest in psychology than any others. They both use unfiltered capture, a series of closed-lists, take human emotions and procrastination into careful consideration, use a flexible approach, and operate primarily on a pull principle rather than push, while narrowing down to the important and taking care of the urgent.
December 5, 2013 at 7:53 |
Michael B.
Michael B.
A minor correction to my earlier post:
Me: Creates a project sheet titled "Prepared Cars for Winter" and lists tasks that could make that happen as they occur to him, while he takes action, after having first asked himself what the bigger picture of that task [Check Antifreeze] really is. Is it just to ensure he doesn't blow his heater core [or engine]? Or, is there some [higher level] more important result [like Cars Completely Winterized]?
Me: Creates a project sheet titled "Prepared Cars for Winter" and lists tasks that could make that happen as they occur to him, while he takes action, after having first asked himself what the bigger picture of that task [Check Antifreeze] really is. Is it just to ensure he doesn't blow his heater core [or engine]? Or, is there some [higher level] more important result [like Cars Completely Winterized]?
December 5, 2013 at 8:13 |
Michael B.
Michael B.
I stand completely corrected then. :)
Your excercise makes sense to me now. I thought you were doing this process (steps 1-8) for each item on your list, which obviously seemed a bit hectic. I think the excercise gave off that idea.
Your excercise makes sense to me now. I thought you were doing this process (steps 1-8) for each item on your list, which obviously seemed a bit hectic. I think the excercise gave off that idea.
December 5, 2013 at 9:03 |
GMBW
GMBW
The AF system does basically incorporate much of what this thread is about. That is why I say that projects and tasks can be incorporated at any level into your AF list, e.g. "Set up new branch in New York" or "Buy New York street map". If you have a high-level project like the first, then it would be normal to open a project sheet.
The point about the project sheet is that new tasks will constantly appear as the project develops. Some of the tasks on the sheet will become projects in their own right. Your thinking about the project comes as a result of working on the project, and the project sheet enables that to be captured.
Although I don't discount pre-planning entirely, my belief is that thought should develop out of action rather than action out of thought. Of course once the project is under way it may be difficult or impossible to distinguish which came first - the chicken or the egg?
I think I might write a proper blog post about Project Sheets. Although I have talked about them a lot in the Forums, I'm not sure that the concept has ever been systematically dealt with by me.
The point about the project sheet is that new tasks will constantly appear as the project develops. Some of the tasks on the sheet will become projects in their own right. Your thinking about the project comes as a result of working on the project, and the project sheet enables that to be captured.
Although I don't discount pre-planning entirely, my belief is that thought should develop out of action rather than action out of thought. Of course once the project is under way it may be difficult or impossible to distinguish which came first - the chicken or the egg?
I think I might write a proper blog post about Project Sheets. Although I have talked about them a lot in the Forums, I'm not sure that the concept has ever been systematically dealt with by me.
December 5, 2013 at 9:31 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
GMBW:
"I stand completely corrected then. :)
Your exercise makes sense to me now. I thought you were doing this process (steps 1-8) for each item on your list, which obviously seemed a bit hectic."
... That would be a lot of work!
"I think the exercise gave off that idea."
... I agree.
"I stand completely corrected then. :)
Your exercise makes sense to me now. I thought you were doing this process (steps 1-8) for each item on your list, which obviously seemed a bit hectic."
... That would be a lot of work!
"I think the exercise gave off that idea."
... I agree.
December 5, 2013 at 10:01 |
Michael B.
Michael B.
Mark > my belief is that thought should develop out of action rather than action out of thought.
The "act as if" principle? An article explains at: http://www.theguardian.com/science/2012/jun/30/self-help-positive-thinking ?
I would say action completes the circuit. If a person does not act in line with who think they want to be they are still in an earlier version of themselves.
The "act as if" principle? An article explains at: http://www.theguardian.com/science/2012/jun/30/self-help-positive-thinking ?
I would say action completes the circuit. If a person does not act in line with who think they want to be they are still in an earlier version of themselves.
December 5, 2013 at 10:26 |
michael
michael
Mark:
"I think I might write a proper blog post about Project Sheets."
That would be great.
"I think I might write a proper blog post about Project Sheets."
That would be great.
December 5, 2013 at 10:49 |
Lby
Lby
michael
I agree with the "act as if" principle and indeed have used it extensively when training people in the past. But it's not what I was getting at here. It's more that as you start to move forward so the way starts to open up before you.
I agree with the "act as if" principle and indeed have used it extensively when training people in the past. But it's not what I was getting at here. It's more that as you start to move forward so the way starts to open up before you.
December 5, 2013 at 11:10 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
Mark:
"The AF system does basically incorporate much of what this thread is about."
... I agree.
"That is why I say that projects and tasks can be incorporated at any level into your AF list, e.g. "Set up new branch in New York" or "Buy New York street map". If you have a high-level project like the first, then it would be normal to open a project sheet."
... Is there a way to incorporate project tasks elegantly into the running AF/FV list and easily group them together when you need them yet allow for random capture? Can task lists and project lists exist in one flowing list in one bound notebook? In other words, in as much as project management and time management are different sides of the same coin, can we melt that coin into a pool of oneness? (michael: That was a nod in your direction.)
"Although I don't discount pre-planning entirely, my belief is that thought should develop out of action rather than action out of thought."
... I have observed this in my own life. No matter how thoughtfully I plan out a project, as soon as I take action many of the tasks change or drop off, and any pre-sequenced tasks instantly change sequence. All the 1, 2, 3, 4 goes out the window. I remember you advising that one should prioritize projects from one another but not any one project's tasks.
"I think I might write a proper blog post about Project Sheets. Although I have talked about them a lot in the Forums, I'm not sure that the concept has ever been systematically dealt with by me."
... I support this!
"The AF system does basically incorporate much of what this thread is about."
... I agree.
"That is why I say that projects and tasks can be incorporated at any level into your AF list, e.g. "Set up new branch in New York" or "Buy New York street map". If you have a high-level project like the first, then it would be normal to open a project sheet."
... Is there a way to incorporate project tasks elegantly into the running AF/FV list and easily group them together when you need them yet allow for random capture? Can task lists and project lists exist in one flowing list in one bound notebook? In other words, in as much as project management and time management are different sides of the same coin, can we melt that coin into a pool of oneness? (michael: That was a nod in your direction.)
"Although I don't discount pre-planning entirely, my belief is that thought should develop out of action rather than action out of thought."
... I have observed this in my own life. No matter how thoughtfully I plan out a project, as soon as I take action many of the tasks change or drop off, and any pre-sequenced tasks instantly change sequence. All the 1, 2, 3, 4 goes out the window. I remember you advising that one should prioritize projects from one another but not any one project's tasks.
"I think I might write a proper blog post about Project Sheets. Although I have talked about them a lot in the Forums, I'm not sure that the concept has ever been systematically dealt with by me."
... I support this!
December 5, 2013 at 11:19 |
Michael B.
Michael B.
Michael B.
<< Can task lists and project lists exist in one flowing list in one bound notebook? In other words, in as much as project management and time management are different sides of the same coin, can we melt that coin into a pool of oneness? >>
These questions are all helping me to get what I need to write about Project Sheets clearer in my mind.
First, Project Sheets are not about project management - they are about the tasks *you* need to do within the project. The difference may not be apparent when only one person (you) is working on the project, but if it's a project in which many people are involved there is a considerable difference, not least that you may not be the person managing the project.
Second, a Project Sheet is a temporary work sheet, not a permanent record of action. It is what you need to do *now*. When I come to the task "Project X" I don't get out the Project X Work Sheet, because there is no such thing. Instead I write "Project X" on the top of a sheet of paper, jot down a couple of tasks that come to mind and start working on them. The list expands as I work, and then hopefully contracts again as I do the tasks. When I've done all the tasks that need doing now, I shred the sheet.
As you can see from what I've written above, there is no need to incorporate Project Sheets into the main AF/FV list - and in fact it would be undesirable to do so.
<< Can task lists and project lists exist in one flowing list in one bound notebook? In other words, in as much as project management and time management are different sides of the same coin, can we melt that coin into a pool of oneness? >>
These questions are all helping me to get what I need to write about Project Sheets clearer in my mind.
First, Project Sheets are not about project management - they are about the tasks *you* need to do within the project. The difference may not be apparent when only one person (you) is working on the project, but if it's a project in which many people are involved there is a considerable difference, not least that you may not be the person managing the project.
Second, a Project Sheet is a temporary work sheet, not a permanent record of action. It is what you need to do *now*. When I come to the task "Project X" I don't get out the Project X Work Sheet, because there is no such thing. Instead I write "Project X" on the top of a sheet of paper, jot down a couple of tasks that come to mind and start working on them. The list expands as I work, and then hopefully contracts again as I do the tasks. When I've done all the tasks that need doing now, I shred the sheet.
As you can see from what I've written above, there is no need to incorporate Project Sheets into the main AF/FV list - and in fact it would be undesirable to do so.
December 6, 2013 at 11:28 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
Michael B.
<< In Soviet Russia, Project List lists YOU.>>
In America you delete comment, but in Soviet Russia comment deletes YOU!!
<< In Soviet Russia, Project List lists YOU.>>
In America you delete comment, but in Soviet Russia comment deletes YOU!!
December 6, 2013 at 12:50 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
Mark:
Ha!
Wow. Spooky editing my comment and seeing your replies in my edit box. Ahhh.
Ha!
Wow. Spooky editing my comment and seeing your replies in my edit box. Ahhh.
December 6, 2013 at 12:53 |
Michael B.
Michael B.
Mark
I think you discussed Project Sheets in some detail in Gerry's "Project Focus" thread a few years ago. Though you used slightly different terminology: "project task lists". However, you seemed to suggest that you would keep the sheet as long as required, returning to it when necessary.
I think you discussed Project Sheets in some detail in Gerry's "Project Focus" thread a few years ago. Though you used slightly different terminology: "project task lists". However, you seemed to suggest that you would keep the sheet as long as required, returning to it when necessary.
December 6, 2013 at 16:01 |
Caibre65
Caibre65
Here is that post:
http://markforster.squarespace.com/forum/post/700900#post795070
http://markforster.squarespace.com/forum/post/700900#post795070
December 7, 2013 at 5:11 |
Seraphim
Seraphim
Thanks for finding that, Seraphim.
Calibre65:
Quite how you use the Project List is of course up to you, but I think it's important to differentiate between the project documentation and planning, which are not part of time management, and the tasks you actually need to do now, which are.
So my preferred way of using the Project List is to make a new one each time I work on the project. But that doesn't mean that you would work on the project for five minutes, destroy the sheet, and half an hour later have to start a new one. You would keep it going as long as you are actively bringing that project up to date.
The thing to remember is that the Project List is not intended to be a list of all the actions that need to be taken for the project before it's completed, but rather a list of the tasks *you* need to do *now* in relation to it.
Calibre65:
Quite how you use the Project List is of course up to you, but I think it's important to differentiate between the project documentation and planning, which are not part of time management, and the tasks you actually need to do now, which are.
So my preferred way of using the Project List is to make a new one each time I work on the project. But that doesn't mean that you would work on the project for five minutes, destroy the sheet, and half an hour later have to start a new one. You would keep it going as long as you are actively bringing that project up to date.
The thing to remember is that the Project List is not intended to be a list of all the actions that need to be taken for the project before it's completed, but rather a list of the tasks *you* need to do *now* in relation to it.
December 7, 2013 at 9:42 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
Mark
Yes I use them more or less as you recommend (within FV though). I typically have a few on the go at any one time, just three at present. When I start a sheet I make a little mark at the end of a project or task on my FV list as a memo that I'm to work off a sheet. The sheet usually lasts a few days and is then binned or filed if I've made any relevant notes on it.
I find I'm keeping my FV list much less cluttered and am more focused on the project I'm currently working on with this simple method.
Yes I use them more or less as you recommend (within FV though). I typically have a few on the go at any one time, just three at present. When I start a sheet I make a little mark at the end of a project or task on my FV list as a memo that I'm to work off a sheet. The sheet usually lasts a few days and is then binned or filed if I've made any relevant notes on it.
I find I'm keeping my FV list much less cluttered and am more focused on the project I'm currently working on with this simple method.
December 7, 2013 at 10:49 |
Caibre65
Caibre65
Caibre68:
<< I find I'm keeping my FV list much less cluttered and am more focused on the project I'm currently working on with this simple method. >>
I can imagine that it would be possible to have quite a short "master list" which referred down to project lists. Different systems seem to work best with different degrees of level. I find that with AF1 for instance I like to keep the list full with lots of small tasks. But with "dotted AF1" (aka Jefferson Nickel) it seems to work best when small tasks are grouped together under a more general heading.
Must think about this some more!
<< I find I'm keeping my FV list much less cluttered and am more focused on the project I'm currently working on with this simple method. >>
I can imagine that it would be possible to have quite a short "master list" which referred down to project lists. Different systems seem to work best with different degrees of level. I find that with AF1 for instance I like to keep the list full with lots of small tasks. But with "dotted AF1" (aka Jefferson Nickel) it seems to work best when small tasks are grouped together under a more general heading.
Must think about this some more!
December 7, 2013 at 15:46 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
Mark wrote:
<< The thing to remember is that the Project List is not intended to be a list of all the actions that need to be taken for the project before it's completed, but rather a list of the tasks *you* need to do *now* in relation to it. >>
Thanks for this, Mark. It seems in line with your general principle (which is only now really beginning to dawn on me) that action should precede planning, that the plan proceeds from the work itself, not the other way around. This is really helpful, and is very realistic and practical.
READY FIRE AIM actually works pretty well!!
Thanks!!!
<< The thing to remember is that the Project List is not intended to be a list of all the actions that need to be taken for the project before it's completed, but rather a list of the tasks *you* need to do *now* in relation to it. >>
Thanks for this, Mark. It seems in line with your general principle (which is only now really beginning to dawn on me) that action should precede planning, that the plan proceeds from the work itself, not the other way around. This is really helpful, and is very realistic and practical.
READY FIRE AIM actually works pretty well!!
Thanks!!!
December 8, 2013 at 23:23 |
Seraphim
Seraphim
Seraphim:
By ready..fire..aim you mean "thought should develop out of action rather than action out of thought."?
I'd also like to refer to it as "momentum trumps motivation" or "your calendar shows you what you are committed to".
By ready..fire..aim you mean "thought should develop out of action rather than action out of thought."?
I'd also like to refer to it as "momentum trumps motivation" or "your calendar shows you what you are committed to".
December 9, 2013 at 1:17 |
michael
michael
michael wrote:
<< By ready..fire..aim you mean "thought should develop out of action rather than action out of thought."? >>
Yes.
<< By ready..fire..aim you mean "thought should develop out of action rather than action out of thought."? >>
Yes.
December 12, 2013 at 18:25 |
Seraphim
Seraphim
Elaborating the above further...
I came across the idea that we do not have a (fixed) personality - we make ourselves up as we redefine ourselves each day by our decisions. This is more believable if we regard personality as (roughly) attitudes+beliefs+habits+desires. Each of these can be modified, either by experience or conscious re-decision: movement maketh the man.
I came across the idea that we do not have a (fixed) personality - we make ourselves up as we redefine ourselves each day by our decisions. This is more believable if we regard personality as (roughly) attitudes+beliefs+habits+desires. Each of these can be modified, either by experience or conscious re-decision: movement maketh the man.
December 14, 2013 at 22:18 |
michael
michael





"Every how-to should lead with the what-for. Why this is important. Why you should do it. Why this way and not another way. We need less hows and more whys. The what-for is often assumed. Of course people know the what-for. That’s why they need the how-to, right? Sometimes, perhaps. Often, not."