Discussion Forum > how do you think about your tasks?
I deliberately condense tasks. For example, I may have one task, Clean House even though there are many aspects to it. I may pull out one or two more detailed tasks because they need particular attention, but that's it. Any more makes for unmanageable clutter.
March 7, 2014 at 16:04 |
Alan Baljeu
Alan Baljeu
I just only put things on the list that I actually want to work on or at least think about within the next two or three days.
March 7, 2014 at 16:25 |
Austin
Austin
Hi,
We are similar, Seraphim. Mark quoted my on the front page of The Final Version “535 tasks but the fv system worked really well today"
My oldest action task is 1/19.
Currently in my action book I have 236. SInce I have been working through the book dit style (see "My System" the number has shrunk. But what really helps is not writing everything as an action, being serious about processing the David Allen GTD way (Is it actionable) and putting it on the right list. I also adhere to the two minute rule (take two minutes? Then do it) when processing email.
I am also much more confident that nothing is falling through the cracks, since I rely on my deadline and project list to create the daily hotlist. SO I may have 200+ unactioned tasks, but I know none of them need to be actioned today.
We are similar, Seraphim. Mark quoted my on the front page of The Final Version “535 tasks but the fv system worked really well today"
My oldest action task is 1/19.
Currently in my action book I have 236. SInce I have been working through the book dit style (see "My System" the number has shrunk. But what really helps is not writing everything as an action, being serious about processing the David Allen GTD way (Is it actionable) and putting it on the right list. I also adhere to the two minute rule (take two minutes? Then do it) when processing email.
I am also much more confident that nothing is falling through the cracks, since I rely on my deadline and project list to create the daily hotlist. SO I may have 200+ unactioned tasks, but I know none of them need to be actioned today.
March 7, 2014 at 18:33 |
Vegheadjones
Vegheadjones
You know, Seraphim, I was wondering the same for quite some time now...
Only the other way around!
When Mark posted his numbers how he would engage in 30+ tasks per day... ???
or getting trough your AF1 list at least once per day... ???
or doing at least four FV chains per day... ???
Wat?
Here are my numbers:
47 + 32 in both @contexts lists which I travel via several AF algorithms...
..and for my taste the 47er one starts to feel bulky.
I work on ~ 5 - 10 items per day...
plus a few routine things like doing the dishes..
.. and I consider myself happy with how things are on that regard. (That's not saying there wouldn't be room for improvement...)
... I have no idea... ??
Only the other way around!
When Mark posted his numbers how he would engage in 30+ tasks per day... ???
or getting trough your AF1 list at least once per day... ???
or doing at least four FV chains per day... ???
Wat?
Here are my numbers:
47 + 32 in both @contexts lists which I travel via several AF algorithms...
..and for my taste the 47er one starts to feel bulky.
I work on ~ 5 - 10 items per day...
plus a few routine things like doing the dishes..
.. and I consider myself happy with how things are on that regard. (That's not saying there wouldn't be room for improvement...)
... I have no idea... ??
March 7, 2014 at 22:58 |
Christopher
Christopher
Seraphim, I have 110 tasks on my list with 90 of them dated. I have 20 tasks on an old backlog list that I've done nothing with. I need to date or delete them.
I don't write down tasks that will be handled by routine. For example, I don't add cleaning chores unless it is something fairly urgent that I would otherwise forget. I don't add ideas to my list. I have more of those than I can possibly manage. I add those to a notebook instead. I have a paper notebook and use Springpad for that.
Like you, I enjoy doing lots of things. But I have to limit what's in front of me, or I stress out. I've already explained how I do that. I'm speaking on this Scanner/Renaissance/Multi-potentialite style tomorrow. One of the things that has helped me so much is to ask what I really want from an activity. Most of the time it's the excitement of learning about it. It's not continuing on with the nitty gritty details forever.
For example, I learned about a comfort dog ministry I could get involved in. I love dogs and I'm a psychologist. I was ready to buy a Golden Retriever and get going! Then I asked what I really wanted from it and it wasn't having a big dog to take care of every day and adding lots of trips out of the house to my already packed schedule. I wanted to learn how to train the dog and to have the experience of taking the dog out a few times. I still like the idea of it and so I will add it to my notebook. Doing that and researching it has satisfied me for now. My "wish list" notebook keeps me from over-committing just like my Amazon wish list keeps me from spending too much.
People like us, who love doing so much, have to learn to focus on what we love most -- which usually isn't carrying every interest to completion. I've also started questioning my logic that if I *can* do something, that I *should* do it. You're a gifted guy. You can't do everything that you're able to do. But you CAN do everything that you really want to do. It's like little and often, only for interests. Then you dismiss them when they're no longer satisfying.
I don't write down tasks that will be handled by routine. For example, I don't add cleaning chores unless it is something fairly urgent that I would otherwise forget. I don't add ideas to my list. I have more of those than I can possibly manage. I add those to a notebook instead. I have a paper notebook and use Springpad for that.
Like you, I enjoy doing lots of things. But I have to limit what's in front of me, or I stress out. I've already explained how I do that. I'm speaking on this Scanner/Renaissance/Multi-potentialite style tomorrow. One of the things that has helped me so much is to ask what I really want from an activity. Most of the time it's the excitement of learning about it. It's not continuing on with the nitty gritty details forever.
For example, I learned about a comfort dog ministry I could get involved in. I love dogs and I'm a psychologist. I was ready to buy a Golden Retriever and get going! Then I asked what I really wanted from it and it wasn't having a big dog to take care of every day and adding lots of trips out of the house to my already packed schedule. I wanted to learn how to train the dog and to have the experience of taking the dog out a few times. I still like the idea of it and so I will add it to my notebook. Doing that and researching it has satisfied me for now. My "wish list" notebook keeps me from over-committing just like my Amazon wish list keeps me from spending too much.
People like us, who love doing so much, have to learn to focus on what we love most -- which usually isn't carrying every interest to completion. I've also started questioning my logic that if I *can* do something, that I *should* do it. You're a gifted guy. You can't do everything that you're able to do. But you CAN do everything that you really want to do. It's like little and often, only for interests. Then you dismiss them when they're no longer satisfying.
March 8, 2014 at 0:08 |
Melanie Wilson
Melanie Wilson
@Christopher - very interesting!
OK, so here's an example. I get about 300 to 500 emails per day (work + personal). Most of them are quickly deleted, archived, acted upon immediately, or filed with a project to be handled together with the rest of the project. But there's still 5-10% that are in the category of :
- needs more action - but more than just a few minutes
- needs more careful attention - need to read more thoroughly, and think over it more carefully
- needs to percolate - not sure what the action is (if any) - maybe it's an "opportunity" that needs to be assessed over time, with other opportunities
All these go on my action lists. It's typically 20-40 per day for work, and 10-20 per day for personal. Probably a quarter of those clearly must be done, and are somewhat pressing. Another 30-50% are "should be done sometime soon". The rest are "unclear/percolate".
So this immediately puts 5-15 "urgent" items on my list every day, together with the 15-50 additional items. Depending on how long I let things percolate, it's pretty easy for this to grow into the hundreds. As long as the oldest tasks stay within a good range, it's pretty manageable, but it's still a high number.
And that's just email....
How do you handle email? Do you batch it somehow?
OK, so here's an example. I get about 300 to 500 emails per day (work + personal). Most of them are quickly deleted, archived, acted upon immediately, or filed with a project to be handled together with the rest of the project. But there's still 5-10% that are in the category of :
- needs more action - but more than just a few minutes
- needs more careful attention - need to read more thoroughly, and think over it more carefully
- needs to percolate - not sure what the action is (if any) - maybe it's an "opportunity" that needs to be assessed over time, with other opportunities
All these go on my action lists. It's typically 20-40 per day for work, and 10-20 per day for personal. Probably a quarter of those clearly must be done, and are somewhat pressing. Another 30-50% are "should be done sometime soon". The rest are "unclear/percolate".
So this immediately puts 5-15 "urgent" items on my list every day, together with the 15-50 additional items. Depending on how long I let things percolate, it's pretty easy for this to grow into the hundreds. As long as the oldest tasks stay within a good range, it's pretty manageable, but it's still a high number.
And that's just email....
How do you handle email? Do you batch it somehow?
March 8, 2014 at 0:08 |
Seraphim
Seraphim
Seraphim, I wonder if one difference between you and others is that your work may literally be processing email-related tasks? My primary job is homeschooling. That rarely has tasks associated with it for me. It's more just going through the routine.
Way back when I was a secretary and my work was my in-basket. I had lots of tasks in there, but that WAS my job. Is your email inbox like that?
Way back when I was a secretary and my work was my in-basket. I had lots of tasks in there, but that WAS my job. Is your email inbox like that?
March 8, 2014 at 3:08 |
Melanie Wilson
Melanie Wilson
I deal with lots of email, but no, that's not my primary task. Most of my work happens in meetings and in driving collaboration across groups of people, and improving business processes.
But I can understand why someone might think that. Actually, there are so many articles on "inbox zero" and how it is THE key to productivity, I have come to believe this is a serious mistake. That's why I sometimes call myself a "recovering inbox ninja". :-) It's good to be efficient at dealing with email, but if one falls into thinking that this is the chief means of task of one's work, one will just drown in trivia and in responding to other people's priorities. It's also why I have such a visceral reaction against "Zen and the art of Inbox Management" (the original proposed title for David Allen's GTD book). There are some good ideas there for inbox management - but that's not a complete solution for achieving significant, impactful results.
But I can understand why someone might think that. Actually, there are so many articles on "inbox zero" and how it is THE key to productivity, I have come to believe this is a serious mistake. That's why I sometimes call myself a "recovering inbox ninja". :-) It's good to be efficient at dealing with email, but if one falls into thinking that this is the chief means of task of one's work, one will just drown in trivia and in responding to other people's priorities. It's also why I have such a visceral reaction against "Zen and the art of Inbox Management" (the original proposed title for David Allen's GTD book). There are some good ideas there for inbox management - but that's not a complete solution for achieving significant, impactful results.
March 8, 2014 at 5:24 |
Seraphim
Seraphim
Seraphim, my husband and son are very productive people and both have thousands of emails in their inboxes. They don't use email to get things done. I do and am greatly stressed by having them all in plain site, so clearing email helps me be productive.
March 9, 2014 at 0:27 |
Melanie Wilson
Melanie Wilson
My email is set up in such a way as to optimize for lazyness, which to me means as few clicks and moving and sorting motions as possible. I use a lot of smart searches and filters to reach that goal.
I let mails linger in the inbox and look at my inbox via smart searches, moving emails around would be the first unnecessary action step. Old emails get archived automatically, so my inbox clears itself over time.
Emails do not create additional tasks, if they pertain to a project which is already on the list. In GTD parlance they are automatically project suppport materials. The next time the 'focus list drives me to that project, I will deal with what is next which might be an email; or not.
Most emails are a waste of time. Personal as well as professional. I try to ignore as much as possible. Many emails are just stupidity which gets cleared way faster by talking to people either via phone or face-to-face. It is less work than an endless email back-and-forth which then just turns out to be an misunderstanding anyway.
I do have an "inbox zero" in the sense that new email gets - again in GTD parlance - processed and organized each and every day when I download the stuff.
(I don't think that more is meant when certain people sell their products with "inbox zero". It is more a question of what middle-management in corporation can subscribe to without getting in trouble. Meaning, if you are an HR drone and you bought "inbox zero" that is definitely something that silver haired upper echelons "get".)
I let mails linger in the inbox and look at my inbox via smart searches, moving emails around would be the first unnecessary action step. Old emails get archived automatically, so my inbox clears itself over time.
Emails do not create additional tasks, if they pertain to a project which is already on the list. In GTD parlance they are automatically project suppport materials. The next time the 'focus list drives me to that project, I will deal with what is next which might be an email; or not.
Most emails are a waste of time. Personal as well as professional. I try to ignore as much as possible. Many emails are just stupidity which gets cleared way faster by talking to people either via phone or face-to-face. It is less work than an endless email back-and-forth which then just turns out to be an misunderstanding anyway.
I do have an "inbox zero" in the sense that new email gets - again in GTD parlance - processed and organized each and every day when I download the stuff.
(I don't think that more is meant when certain people sell their products with "inbox zero". It is more a question of what middle-management in corporation can subscribe to without getting in trouble. Meaning, if you are an HR drone and you bought "inbox zero" that is definitely something that silver haired upper echelons "get".)
April 6, 2014 at 16:16 |
Christopher
Christopher
Seraphim, I usually have similar problem, having several hundreds of tasks in my lists. AND it is also combined with my inability to focus on anything what is too complicated that distracts my attention - which such a long list usually is. But I differ from you, my tasks are usually much older than 3 weeks.
I have not solved this problem yet. I have similar questions which you have. What has helped me so far, was separation of "all the tasks" (incl. plans, steps, ideas, someday/maybe...), which I put into separate app, from "active tasks", which I try to have around 30-40.
Why I have so many tasks? I think many people do not write all of (or many of) the tasks necessary for the project beforehand. They write down just several next actions. Of course, some people have less projects/interests. And some, with many interests and projects, do not write everything down, just what is immediate or what they would tend to forget. Granularity of the task will also will be the issue, of course.
As for emails, I stopped re-writing majority of the tasks stemming from them into my task list. I try to reply to majority of emails during special blocks of time. I let sit all "unresolved" emails (which have tasks connected) in my inbox unless they are "done". Again, I do those tasks in my "email blocks". Only the most important/urgent/long tasks go from emails to my task list. Thus I can reduce my lists even with great number of emails.
I have not solved this problem yet. I have similar questions which you have. What has helped me so far, was separation of "all the tasks" (incl. plans, steps, ideas, someday/maybe...), which I put into separate app, from "active tasks", which I try to have around 30-40.
Why I have so many tasks? I think many people do not write all of (or many of) the tasks necessary for the project beforehand. They write down just several next actions. Of course, some people have less projects/interests. And some, with many interests and projects, do not write everything down, just what is immediate or what they would tend to forget. Granularity of the task will also will be the issue, of course.
As for emails, I stopped re-writing majority of the tasks stemming from them into my task list. I try to reply to majority of emails during special blocks of time. I let sit all "unresolved" emails (which have tasks connected) in my inbox unless they are "done". Again, I do those tasks in my "email blocks". Only the most important/urgent/long tasks go from emails to my task list. Thus I can reduce my lists even with great number of emails.
April 6, 2014 at 17:02 |
Daneb
Daneb
I started using the "spinning plates" (see Mark's recent blog posts) method a couple days ago. So right now I have 7 at home and only 2 at work. I really really like it so far. It seems like it is the opposite of the usual methods which can have hundreds of tasks (those systems never worked for me, even though I kept trying). Then I would just work on stuff when it was urgent, or when I was motivated to start on something, and then I would procrastinate when it wasn't urgent, or stop doing something when the motivation wore off. Even though it's only been a few days, I don't think I'm going to stop using this system. (Maybe I should wait a few weeks before reporting anything though.) It really meshes well with my personality, which is partly perfectionist (this allows me to focus on getting something started up correctly, once I add it to the list), keeps me aligned on what I want to focus on, not to lose focus on the improvements I have made so far, and it has even started to boost my self-esteem as I can see it making concrete improvements in areas that I could never make progress in before. Rather than add anything and everything I think of or notice, I add things to the list only as quickly as I can get a grasp of the situation. I know it'll get added in time, and meanwhile I am improving the aspects of my life that are on the list now.
April 6, 2014 at 19:42 |
Don R
Don R
Seraphim:
<< Actually, there are so many articles on "inbox zero" and how it is THE key to productivity, I have come to believe this is a serious mistake. >>
I believe in "inbox zero", just as I believe in "in tray zero" (for paper), "filing zero", "tidying zero", "voicemail zero", "doing the dishes zero", "paying the bills zero" and all sorts of other zeros. In other words I believe in keeping on top of one's work.
I don't believe any of these zeros are the key to productivity. But they can be serious handicaps to it if they are not kept at zero.
Does your wife work on a "zero" basis? Mine certainly does.
<< Actually, there are so many articles on "inbox zero" and how it is THE key to productivity, I have come to believe this is a serious mistake. >>
I believe in "inbox zero", just as I believe in "in tray zero" (for paper), "filing zero", "tidying zero", "voicemail zero", "doing the dishes zero", "paying the bills zero" and all sorts of other zeros. In other words I believe in keeping on top of one's work.
I don't believe any of these zeros are the key to productivity. But they can be serious handicaps to it if they are not kept at zero.
Does your wife work on a "zero" basis? Mine certainly does.
April 7, 2014 at 12:33 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
My own experience is that I read about Inbox Zero for email a couple years ago, immediately adopted it, and have been consistently on top of my email every day ever since. So for me it does exactly what it sets out to do - keeping me on top of my email. I never expected it to make me productive at anything else. One might apply the same idea to other areas - like, say, doing the dishes to zero every day. But otherwise, I've never heard of anyone making "Inbox Zero" the KEY to productivity.
April 7, 2014 at 16:55 |
Austin
Austin
After further reflection, I think DIT can be seen as a system that applies Inbox Zero to time management in a thorough manner. Each day you have an inbox - tomorrow's list - and you are processing your previous day's Inbox to Zero. This is an excellent way of keeping on top of your little things, keeping your projects up to date, and focusing strongly on one major project via the Current Initiative.
Currently I'm using DIT with Google Tasks. My tasks for each day display above my scheduled things in Google Calendar. I'm usually a pen-and-paper guy, but I love how simple this is, and how it keeps my calendar and my tasks together.
Currently I'm using DIT with Google Tasks. My tasks for each day display above my scheduled things in Google Calendar. I'm usually a pen-and-paper guy, but I love how simple this is, and how it keeps my calendar and my tasks together.
April 7, 2014 at 21:36 |
Austin
Austin
To clarify, I do find "inbox zero" a useful tool, and I regularly "work on a zero basis". Without this practice, it's easy for me to fall completely into chaos. "Inbox zero" is an effective tactic for dealing with the huge streams of inputs most of us deal with in the Information Age. But if that's the main tool in one's toolbox, how is one to accomplish the things that really matter? Those things simply don't show up in my inbox.
The ideas for really moving things forward in my life and work usually either come after doing some focused team discussion/collaboration, or spending some time on serious thought and reflection, or they just pop into my head when I am driving or walking or something. And serious results come from following those new threads on my own initiative, setting a train in motion through pro-active work and collaboration. Once the train is in motion, email can help keep it going. But to achieve the final results, it still takes collaboration, reflection, and pro-active work. And again, none (or very little) of that shows up in my inbox.
Ramit Sethi advocates going on a 2-week "input hiatus": just stop reading all the forums, blogs, non-essential emails, etc. And stop watching TV and stop reading newspapers, magazines, etc. And just observe how much more time you have, and how much more clarity of mind. Ever since I tried that, I've been much more hesitant to turn on the spigot of information flow again.
SaneBox is a really helpful tool for this, by the way. (Thanks again, Melanie!)
The ideas for really moving things forward in my life and work usually either come after doing some focused team discussion/collaboration, or spending some time on serious thought and reflection, or they just pop into my head when I am driving or walking or something. And serious results come from following those new threads on my own initiative, setting a train in motion through pro-active work and collaboration. Once the train is in motion, email can help keep it going. But to achieve the final results, it still takes collaboration, reflection, and pro-active work. And again, none (or very little) of that shows up in my inbox.
Ramit Sethi advocates going on a 2-week "input hiatus": just stop reading all the forums, blogs, non-essential emails, etc. And stop watching TV and stop reading newspapers, magazines, etc. And just observe how much more time you have, and how much more clarity of mind. Ever since I tried that, I've been much more hesitant to turn on the spigot of information flow again.
SaneBox is a really helpful tool for this, by the way. (Thanks again, Melanie!)
April 8, 2014 at 20:12 |
Seraphim
Seraphim
With such a high number of tasks, I take it most already abstracted into different areas such as projects?
Then maybe all it needs on a daily focus list is - which areas to work on that day, to make it easier to 'see the forest'. Erik from a while back IIRC did something like this for his personal kanban.
I'd also add that for projects requiring concentrated creative input it could be best to work on one or two at most a day, with some simpler projects or tasks as relief. So along with different areas to pick each day there's the qualitative aspect of the work to consider.
As for email I consider the inbox (with remaining unfiltered email) as done once each email is at least looked at and so no longer highlighted.
To automate this maybe a filter could move each email into a 'read' folder once looked at, but I just let the read emails scroll off the bottom of the screen :-)
HTH,
Then maybe all it needs on a daily focus list is - which areas to work on that day, to make it easier to 'see the forest'. Erik from a while back IIRC did something like this for his personal kanban.
I'd also add that for projects requiring concentrated creative input it could be best to work on one or two at most a day, with some simpler projects or tasks as relief. So along with different areas to pick each day there's the qualitative aspect of the work to consider.
As for email I consider the inbox (with remaining unfiltered email) as done once each email is at least looked at and so no longer highlighted.
To automate this maybe a filter could move each email into a 'read' folder once looked at, but I just let the read emails scroll off the bottom of the screen :-)
HTH,
April 14, 2014 at 0:53 |
smileypete
smileypete
My current combined set of lists for work and personal has over 600 tasks, plus maybe another 200 or so, on a backlog list. I always seem to get up into this range. Not counting the backlog items, for personal, the oldest tasks are just under three weeks old. For work, the oldest tasks are about two weeks old, 95% of them under 1 week old. I'd guess about 20% of the tasks never get done (deleted with no action) - they become irrelevant or the system just percolates them off the list. That seems like a reasonable filter.
I admit I am chronically overcommitted. But not overcommitted by 10x capacity!
I'm not necessarily complaining, or even looking for a solution. I like doing lots of things, and I like accomplishing a lot.
Maybe it's the way I think about tasks. I have whole projects on my list -- "Data Migration Project - what's next?" is a pretty typical entry. But I also have individual emails / email threads on my list. And a range of things in between. I've watched pretty closely to see if other people have a similar range in the way they define their tasks, and it seems that most of you do. So I can't figure it out.
I know there are many very accomplished people on this forum, who accomplish those things without their list ever going over 100 items. I just wonder how they do it. It would be so much simpler if I could keep my list that short. I would have better visibility of the overall picture. I wouldn't have such a strong need to supplement my list with a visual kanban of the major deadlines and commitments.
So, how do you think about your tasks? How big / how little?
For you, what is a "task" vs "project"?
How many items do you have on your lists?
How many of them get done, vs deleted with no action? (i.e., what percentage does the system filter out?)
How old are the oldest tasks on your lists?