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Discussion Forum > Question re UMTS' old list

What exactly does it mean to finish a project on the UMTS 'old list'?

Example:

1. I started a project by writing on the then new list: "website(?)".
2. I worked on the project.
3. Now it is on the old list and meanwhile it became clear: yes we are going to do a elaborate web site.
4. so I split the "website(?)" entry into a few threads: a) create content for the website b) create advertising campaign for the wesbite c) and so on.


The question now: Can I write these new projects on the new list? Or do they have to remain on the old list?


They are new projects, but of course they stem from that old more intuitive list entry "website(?)"... what is the best way to determine when a project on the UMTS old list is finished?
December 2, 2014 at 13:55 | Unregistered CommenterChristopher
Christopher:

Can you please explain the context of this question? What post or article does it refer to?
December 2, 2014 at 15:59 | Registered CommenterMark Forster
Mark:

[Example UTMS List]

OLD TASKS
tea
crumpet
parasailing
scone
buy jam
buy cream
race car
• film project

NEW TASKS
read house of leaves
watch the bletchley circle
the foolscap method for screenwriting?
wash up

Once Christopher begins the film project, leaves it unfinished (thus remaining in the old list), and begins new tasks for the project, should they be:

A. Written on the old list
B. Written on the new list
C. Written on a separate project sheet
D. Or, should the started project be crossed out of the old list and rewritten back into the old list as "film project: sub task" and dotted
E. Something else

I'm curious what the best solution would be when using UTMS Improved.
December 2, 2014 at 21:01 | Registered CommenterMichael B.
It occurs to me the simple answer is to write "film project started" or "film project?" in my example. In Christopher's example, instead of writing "website", he will write "create website?" or "website?", and when he's decided to go through with it, that task is complete. Any new tasks related to building the website are written into the "new" list and each task is well-defined as to what done means for that individual task.
December 2, 2014 at 22:42 | Registered CommenterMichael B.
Michael B.

Thanks for the explanation, but we're no nearer knowing what article or post this all refers to. What is UTMS?
December 2, 2014 at 23:14 | Registered CommenterMark Forster
Looks like I'll have to answer my own question:

http://markforster.squarespace.com/blog/2013/6/13/the-ultimate-time-management-system.html

Please remember that if anyone feels they want to refer to any of the numerous systems described on this website that it does help if they give a link.

In answer to Christopher's question a task is finished when you say it's finished. If you would find it more convenient to split the task up and enter the splinters in the New List, then do so. If you'd prefer to keep them on the Old List, then do so.
December 2, 2014 at 23:23 | Registered CommenterMark Forster
By the way there's an improved version of the Ultimate Time Management System (UTMS) at http://markforster.squarespace.com/blog/2013/7/2/the-ultimate-time-management-system-improved.html

It is in fact what I'm currently using (even though I couldn't remember the name!) and to my mind it is a pretty good system.
December 2, 2014 at 23:33 | Registered CommenterMark Forster
Mark,

<<It is in fact what I'm currently using (even though I couldn't remember the name!) and to my mind it is a pretty good system.>>

I found the original UTMS to be one of the most effective of your systems I'd tried, and I've tried nearly all of them. I didn't find that the "improved" version was an improvement for me over the original.

So, have you jettisoned the project of testing systems that don't involve the long task lists, or is this just a break?
December 3, 2014 at 1:13 | Unregistered CommenterAustin
It's the system I'm currently using as well (Ultimate Time Management System Improved). I'm testing two variations.


UTMSI b is based on:

"Why not just require that at least one of the dotted tasks is worked per pass?"

July 24, 2013 at 18:45 | Deven


UTMSI c is based on:

"I'm not sure whether I have ever written about this before, but some time ago I did invent quite an effective method for using Colley's rule on a list. It works best on a closed list.

Use the first task as your benchmark and then do the first task after that which you are resisting more than the benchmark. When you've done that task, use the task after the one you've just done as your benchmark, and do the first task after that which you are resisting more. When you reach the end of the list, loop back to the beginning. Continue this way until the whole list is done.

If you manage to circle back to your current benchmark without finding a task that you are resisting more, then do the benchmark task."

March 27, 2014 at 14:52 | Mark Forster


UTMSI b:

When you return to the old list, do a pass down the list, and do whatever stands out to you, but when you reach the end of the list you must do at least one dotted task before you may move into the new list. It's the key to unlock the gate. Or in this case, the line.


UTMSI c:

1. Starting at the top of the old list, scan down the list crossing out and rewriting into the new list any dotted tasks as new smaller grained tasks that are well-defined as to what done looks like.

2. Returning to the old list, using the oldest task as a baseline, scan down the list until you find a task you are resisting more. Dot it and do it. If none are found, do the baseline.

3. If finished, cross it out.

4. If unfinished, leave it dotted, use the next task down as your baseline, and scan down until you find a task you are resisting more, dot it and do it. If none are found, do the baseline.

5. If you reach the end of the old list during a scan (or the baseline is now the last task), do the baseline task before moving into the new list. It's the key to unlock the gate.

6. Once in the new list, scan down in order doing any task that stands out to you.

7. When you reach the end of the new list, return to step 1.
December 3, 2014 at 1:14 | Registered CommenterMichael B.
UTMSI c is also based on Katie's post below, but instead of refining your tasks before you work, you do it after you work. It also eliminates the need for the additional line or star as the tasks are automatically marked as you work on them. Over time you will be training yourself to be more specific, while still allowing yourself to write tasks flexibly.

http://markforster.squarespace.com/forum/post/2193781
September 8, 2013 at 13:54 | Katie
December 3, 2014 at 1:44 | Registered CommenterMichael B.
In one of the two variations above, UTMSI c, the focus is still on finishing what you've started, but through a slightly different mechanism, similar to rewriting FV's root task into a smaller slice if you are resisting doing any work on it, but are still committed to completing it; AF4's dismissal and review process; and Katie's pre-review of tasks from her post linked above.

Some benefits of this mechanism:

1. It creates the habit of being specific in how you write tasks, so you can finish them more often, leaving less tasks to rewrite.

2. It batches the rewriting process into one motion as in AF4, ensuring flow is not interrupted when working the old list, but without the dismissal process of AF4.

3. When a task is left unfinished, you are quickly brought to it again after a single pass through the old and new list and that task is rewritten into the new list as something you can better finish in one go. Each time this happens to this task, the task get sliced smaller and smaller until you can finish that task or that piece of a project. The resistance (or effort and time required) to complete the initial task having been reduced, you are now far more likely to choose it when coming to the new list as it will look easier. Ultimately, you get items done or into the new list as doable as quickly as possible. You will be moving through your old list with velocity.

4. You are finishing each task in the old list even if you leave it "unfinished" and later rewrite it more finely sliced into the new list. And not because you rewrote it. That's not the finishing of the task that you've done. You've already completed what you could or wanted to complete on that task when you initially worked it.

In an ideal situation, the work you did on that task would have been written *as* the task.

The work you actually do on a task suggests to you what similar tasks should be written like in the future. It trains you to see what you can actually handle, so you keep moving forward with momentum, instead of seeing your tasks or projects as nebulous blobs that never show any visible progress.

So. The focus remains on finishing, by getting you to write tasks as finish-able and by slicing projects down into smaller tasks that you finish quickly and with less resistance.
December 3, 2014 at 3:49 | Registered CommenterMichael B.
The reason for using resistance as one's guide in the variation UTMSI c above, is explained well by Mark in his reply to Austin in the post linked below:

Austin: "Also, is there a reason you chose resistance rather than psychological readiness?"

Mark Forster: "Yes, the aim with a closed list is to get all the items on the list done within a fairly short time, such as a day list.

If you use psychological readiness, you will tend to be doing the easiest tasks first and leaving the most difficult tasks till last. The result is that you will be working towards ever more difficult tasks. I used to liken this to cycling uphill.

If you use resistance, you will tend to do the opposite. I used to liken this to cycling downhill.

Cycling downhill is far faster and more efficient than cycling uphill (even as a metaphor).

One other important point is that using resistance as your criterion if you don't succeed in finishing your day list in time the tasks that will be left undone at the end of the day will tend to be easy trivial tasks. With psychological readiness the tasks left undone will tend to be the harder, more significant ones."

March 27, 2014 at 17:24 | Mark Forster
http://markforster.squarespace.com/fv-forum/post/2131923#post2320439
December 3, 2014 at 4:24 | Registered CommenterMichael B.
You have no idea how long it took me to type out all of the above from my phone. I wasn't willing to wait to share some ideas, but the pad of my right index finger is throbbing.
December 3, 2014 at 7:46 | Registered CommenterMichael B.
Austin:

<< So, have you jettisoned the project of testing systems that don't involve the long task lists, or is this just a break? >>

No, it's part of it. I often find that revisiting an old system can throw light on a new system (or new idea).
December 3, 2014 at 13:16 | Registered CommenterMark Forster