Discussion Forum > Dismissal : a collection of links
Thanks for this, michael.
I think the most important is the first quote.
I think the most important is the first quote.
December 21, 2014 at 23:35 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
I think one reason dismissal may not be implemented is a thought process like “I will not pay attention to how I am feeling. I will pay attention to the plan. I will pay attention to the words that either I wrote down in the past, or that someone else has prescribed for me. And I will follow this plan and work really hard to make sure that I follow this plan and I do everything that is written out.”
Inner guidance gets over-ridden.
Inner guidance gets over-ridden.
December 29, 2014 at 12:04 |
michael
michael
I never really mastered the concept of dismissal, and I think in large part that is due to starting with these instructions for AF4:
http://markforster.squarespace.com/blog/2009/9/5/preliminary-instructions-for-autofocus-v-4.html
You'll notice 'dismiss' isn't a word used there, and in it's place there's a section titled 'Deleting Undone Items'. That section says you may do this or this or this, but I was left with a feeling of having lost them. Today, the only way I ever dismiss something is en-masse when I get away from the list too long and the built-up list is mostly irrelevant and I call it a backlog.
http://markforster.squarespace.com/blog/2009/9/5/preliminary-instructions-for-autofocus-v-4.html
You'll notice 'dismiss' isn't a word used there, and in it's place there's a section titled 'Deleting Undone Items'. That section says you may do this or this or this, but I was left with a feeling of having lost them. Today, the only way I ever dismiss something is en-masse when I get away from the list too long and the built-up list is mostly irrelevant and I call it a backlog.
December 29, 2014 at 16:50 |
Alan Baljeu
Alan Baljeu
Tolstoy's explanation of "standing out"?:
"When observing his own life, a man may often notice in himself two different beings: the one is blind and physical, the other sees and is spiritual. The blind animal being eats, drinks, rests, sleeps, propagates, and moves, like a wound-up machine. The seeing, spiritual being that is bound up with the animal does nothing of itself, but only appraises the activity of the animal being; coinciding with it when approving its activity, and diverging from it when disapproving. "
"When observing his own life, a man may often notice in himself two different beings: the one is blind and physical, the other sees and is spiritual. The blind animal being eats, drinks, rests, sleeps, propagates, and moves, like a wound-up machine. The seeing, spiritual being that is bound up with the animal does nothing of itself, but only appraises the activity of the animal being; coinciding with it when approving its activity, and diverging from it when disapproving. "
January 3, 2015 at 13:13 |
michael
michael
One thing I learned about myself when it comes to dismissing things is that it is easier to dismiss tasks (less guilt, I guess?) within days of being written, especially when they were passed over multiple times. It is a feeling of "Meh, I have don't time for them today." This is compared to dismissing them after several days to weeks of staying in the list, especially if they were passed over less often, like for example there were days I did not use the list. It is a feeling of "Goodness, all that time and I haven't touched any of these?"
I guess this is the reason I had been leaning to 1-2 week dismissals in my systems lately. And yes, I find it easy to dismiss tasks in CAF4 because of this.
I guess this is the reason I had been leaning to 1-2 week dismissals in my systems lately. And yes, I find it easy to dismiss tasks in CAF4 because of this.
January 3, 2015 at 16:34 |
nuntym
nuntym
A wry observation from Stephen Covey in his book "First Things First" (in conversation with his daughter about her new baby):
" “I schedule time to do these other things, but then I’m constantly interrupted by my baby.” I talked to her about the concept of a compass, not a clock. “You’re being governed by your internal compass, your conscience, and you’re doing something of enormous good. Now is not the time to be controlled by the clock. Throw away your planner for a few weeks. Only one thing is needful. So, relax and enjoy the very nature of this interruption to your life.”"
https://bhushanborntowin.wordpress.com/tag/stephen-covey/
" “I schedule time to do these other things, but then I’m constantly interrupted by my baby.” I talked to her about the concept of a compass, not a clock. “You’re being governed by your internal compass, your conscience, and you’re doing something of enormous good. Now is not the time to be controlled by the clock. Throw away your planner for a few weeks. Only one thing is needful. So, relax and enjoy the very nature of this interruption to your life.”"
https://bhushanborntowin.wordpress.com/tag/stephen-covey/
January 4, 2015 at 12:03 |
michael
michael
Hi Michael
It baffles me trying to figure out what your post has to do with the dismissal principles and/or processes. I'll try to stretch my imagination
1. We have to assume that his daughter doesn't have many ongoing obligations!
a. No career with important project deadlines, meetings, etc
b. No bills that become due during those few weeks
c. No doctor or dentist appointments for her or her baby or other children
d. No investments to watch
e. No active role in church or community organizations
f. No furthering education courses with assignment deadlines or term papers, thesis timelines to track
g. no house maintenance upkeep
h. No standing familial or social obligations
The list goes on. I'm guessing that he really meant to advise her to relax her own expectations and goals for this period of time rather than to "dismiss" her actual ongoing responsibilities and social ties. Maintaining your values, reputation and quality of life always includes responsibilities. Even when you're rich enough to hire out, the ultimate responsibilities are still on you. Maybe you can get away with a couple of weeks vacation ONLY if you front loaded most of those ongoing responsibilities ahead of time ..... or have significant others willing to put your responsibilities on their back.or.... have an extremely low level of conscientiousness...
It baffles me trying to figure out what your post has to do with the dismissal principles and/or processes. I'll try to stretch my imagination
1. We have to assume that his daughter doesn't have many ongoing obligations!
a. No career with important project deadlines, meetings, etc
b. No bills that become due during those few weeks
c. No doctor or dentist appointments for her or her baby or other children
d. No investments to watch
e. No active role in church or community organizations
f. No furthering education courses with assignment deadlines or term papers, thesis timelines to track
g. no house maintenance upkeep
h. No standing familial or social obligations
The list goes on. I'm guessing that he really meant to advise her to relax her own expectations and goals for this period of time rather than to "dismiss" her actual ongoing responsibilities and social ties. Maintaining your values, reputation and quality of life always includes responsibilities. Even when you're rich enough to hire out, the ultimate responsibilities are still on you. Maybe you can get away with a couple of weeks vacation ONLY if you front loaded most of those ongoing responsibilities ahead of time ..... or have significant others willing to put your responsibilities on their back.or.... have an extremely low level of conscientiousness...
January 5, 2015 at 11:23 |
learning as I go
learning as I go
That's us told, Learning!
I see you numbered your points as Item 1, Sub-items a)-h). I can't wait for Item 2)!
Best,
I see you numbered your points as Item 1, Sub-items a)-h). I can't wait for Item 2)!
Best,
January 6, 2015 at 9:14 |
Chris Cooper
Chris Cooper
Somewhere in this forum, someone made a reference to dismissing tasks if they hadn't been touched for a week. This switched on a light in my brain, and I'm giving it a try, in the hope that I can keep my ever-bloating to-do list in check. It seems like a more basic version of DWM, suitable for supremely lazy people like me.
January 6, 2015 at 9:32 |
Chris Cooper
Chris Cooper
Hi Chris Cooper
LOL! I see that I failed miserably at my attempt at cryptic humor. There is no number #2 because it's highly unlikely that there's a #1 for that bad advice. A half truth can be more dangerous than a full lie because it can seem plausible. LOL!
I wasn't trying to tell anybody off. I was simply evaluating the fallacy of the sound bite in the context of most people's reality. I really wanted to believe it .... for about a second. LOL!
LOL! I see that I failed miserably at my attempt at cryptic humor. There is no number #2 because it's highly unlikely that there's a #1 for that bad advice. A half truth can be more dangerous than a full lie because it can seem plausible. LOL!
I wasn't trying to tell anybody off. I was simply evaluating the fallacy of the sound bite in the context of most people's reality. I really wanted to believe it .... for about a second. LOL!
January 6, 2015 at 12:04 |
learning as I go
learning as I go
Hi Chris Cooper
You stated:
"It seems like a more basic version of DWM, suitable for supremely lazy people like me."
I highly doubt that you are lazy at all. Resistance is a response to anything that you don't want to get yourself engaged in. Perhaps your intelligent mind is innocently trying to protect you from the negative experiences of boredom. That's my plausible half truth and I'm sticking with it. LOL!
You stated:
"It seems like a more basic version of DWM, suitable for supremely lazy people like me."
I highly doubt that you are lazy at all. Resistance is a response to anything that you don't want to get yourself engaged in. Perhaps your intelligent mind is innocently trying to protect you from the negative experiences of boredom. That's my plausible half truth and I'm sticking with it. LOL!
January 6, 2015 at 12:14 |
learning as I go
learning as I go
@learning as I go: "I'm guessing that he really meant to advise her to relax her own expectations and goals for this period of time rather than to "dismiss" her actual ongoing responsibilities and social ties."
Learning, if you had understood what "dismissal" is in Mark Forster's systems you would not have this misunderstanding of michael's point in his post.
"Dismissal" declutters your list of items by removing what is not essential <for now> without losing them entirely because they might become essential <later>. It is NOT deleting forever your tasks you have not touched on for a few weeks or months. This is the reason why dismissal will fail without regular review of the dismissed items.
In the case of Stephen Covey's daughter (and I do remember this from reading "First Things First" years ago), what was essential back then was to learn to live with her baby. Covey's advise was to cut down on her responsibilities and if needed give them even if temporarily to her family (and thus also learn about interdependency, one of the the main tenets of Stephen Covey's thinking) so that she can "be" with her baby. Then once she gets used to being a mother, she can gradually go back to her usual routines and responsibilities.
This is exactly what dismissal is all about.
Or, using your own words, "to relax her own expectations and goals for this period of time" is what dismissal is all about, and it is michael's point in his post.
Learning, if you had understood what "dismissal" is in Mark Forster's systems you would not have this misunderstanding of michael's point in his post.
"Dismissal" declutters your list of items by removing what is not essential <for now> without losing them entirely because they might become essential <later>. It is NOT deleting forever your tasks you have not touched on for a few weeks or months. This is the reason why dismissal will fail without regular review of the dismissed items.
In the case of Stephen Covey's daughter (and I do remember this from reading "First Things First" years ago), what was essential back then was to learn to live with her baby. Covey's advise was to cut down on her responsibilities and if needed give them even if temporarily to her family (and thus also learn about interdependency, one of the the main tenets of Stephen Covey's thinking) so that she can "be" with her baby. Then once she gets used to being a mother, she can gradually go back to her usual routines and responsibilities.
This is exactly what dismissal is all about.
Or, using your own words, "to relax her own expectations and goals for this period of time" is what dismissal is all about, and it is michael's point in his post.
January 6, 2015 at 18:11 |
nuntym
nuntym
Hi Nuntym
Thank you for your thoughtful reply but I know what dismissal is. The quote threw me off "Throw away your planner for a few weeks. Only one thing is needful. So, relax and enjoy the very nature of this interruption to your life.”"
Again, I repeat: "Throw away your planner for a few weeks." In my guess, I did mention about the possibility of significant others willing to take on her responsibilities but michael never expounded upon it like you just did.
I've dismissed very few things since 2007 unless I was jotting down possible ideas or options as a thinking tool, not dismissing actual actions. Like DIT, I make WILL DO lists. Anything that falls off of my plate is incoming busyness that's not worth my bother. I know that dismiss doesn't mean delete. It means to allow it to fall off of your action list. You may decide to re-enter it or finally delete it at a future time. My WILL DO list differs from canonical DIT. DIT has a checklist of doing or at least addressing all incoming. My brain organizes in categories. Therefore, I make a weekly map and create a daily map to guide me.
For my ideas, I dismiss and delete many of them! LOL!
Thanks for explaining the full context of Covey's message. THAT makes sense, not michael's parsed version.
Thank you for your thoughtful reply but I know what dismissal is. The quote threw me off "Throw away your planner for a few weeks. Only one thing is needful. So, relax and enjoy the very nature of this interruption to your life.”"
Again, I repeat: "Throw away your planner for a few weeks." In my guess, I did mention about the possibility of significant others willing to take on her responsibilities but michael never expounded upon it like you just did.
I've dismissed very few things since 2007 unless I was jotting down possible ideas or options as a thinking tool, not dismissing actual actions. Like DIT, I make WILL DO lists. Anything that falls off of my plate is incoming busyness that's not worth my bother. I know that dismiss doesn't mean delete. It means to allow it to fall off of your action list. You may decide to re-enter it or finally delete it at a future time. My WILL DO list differs from canonical DIT. DIT has a checklist of doing or at least addressing all incoming. My brain organizes in categories. Therefore, I make a weekly map and create a daily map to guide me.
For my ideas, I dismiss and delete many of them! LOL!
Thanks for explaining the full context of Covey's message. THAT makes sense, not michael's parsed version.
January 6, 2015 at 19:08 |
learning as I go
learning as I go
Dismissal in AF http://markforster.squarespace.com/blog/2009/6/13/autofocus-a-closer-look-at-dismissal.html
"The instructions say nothing about taking any attitude towards dismissal. They simply state: If you go to a page and no item stands out for you on your first pass through it, then all the outstanding items on that page are dismissed without re-entering them. So the only matter to be considered is whether any item stands out. You don’t need to consciously consider whether the item should be dismissed at all - your intuition will have already taken all relevant factors into account."
http://markforster.squarespace.com/blog/2011/3/31/sf-tips-8-dismissal.html Mark on dismissal in SF
http://markforster.squarespace.com/forum/post/751362 Dan on an example of dismissal
http://markforster.squarespace.com/forum/post/1449897#post1450231 highlighting and dismissal
http://markforster.squarespace.com/forum/post/693749 fear of dismissal
and remember " If you are working the system properly, an item will be on the page for several days before it gets dismissed." ( http://markforster.squarespace.com/forum/post/624611 )
http://markforster.squarespace.com/forum/post/622031 dismissed tasks
http://markforster.squarespace.com/forum/post/665909 reviewing dismissed items
http://markforster.squarespace.com/forum/post/850645 more reviewing
... and maybe have "take a break" and "do nothing" on most lists?