Discussion Forum > Universal capture and a no list system
Jesse:
If you find a system that works for you, then stick to it, whether it obeys "the rules" or not.
Remember though that the primary purpose of a "no-list" system is to stop you taking on more than you can do. Recording every single thing doesn't achieve much if you end up with more on your list than you can possibly do.
Unfortunately "universal capture" is the opposite of "no-list" so attempts to combine the two are unlikely to succeed.
If you find a system that works for you, then stick to it, whether it obeys "the rules" or not.
Remember though that the primary purpose of a "no-list" system is to stop you taking on more than you can do. Recording every single thing doesn't achieve much if you end up with more on your list than you can possibly do.
Unfortunately "universal capture" is the opposite of "no-list" so attempts to combine the two are unlikely to succeed.
March 21, 2016 at 21:05 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
I'm using 5T and also capturing things "on the side" when I feel the need on a "dynamic list". It's just a side list where I write down things as they come up in meetings or discussions or whatever. It generally has no more than 7-10 items on it, sometimes more.
But I don't try to come up with any systematic way of pulling from that side list into my 5T list. For the 5T list, I basically follow the rules: when the list gets low, I think about what I need to do next,. and add those things to the list. If I can think of more than 5 things, then I write them all down, and then whittle it down to the top 5, and erase the rest. Takes about 30 seconds.
Sometimes the thing that's on my mind is that growing side list. So "Review Side List" naturally gets written onto my 5T list. And so I might end up spending 20-30 minutes working through that side list and deciding what to do with the things on it: take action; set up a project file; move an item to an Outlook reminder or calendar appointment; move an item to my Project/Deadline List; or just delete it. Sometimes the right thing to do with that side list is just erase the whole thing. I try to erase it at least once a day, but sometimes it hangs around for a few days till I get around to dealing with it -- at which point, it can usually just be erased because the stuff listed there is already done or doesn't need doing! This keeps it short and relevant and alive, and thus avoids the problems of a persistent "catch-all" list.
I handle my Projects/Deadlines list in a similar way, but it doesn't get deleted as often. It's just a list of reminders on my whiteboard of things that I've committed to doing, that I don't want to forget. Every now and then I think "I'd better go read through that list!" and so "Project List" gets written on my 5T. These are "hard" commitments, not just ideas or nice-to-haves (at least they don't start at that way).
But I don't try to come up with any systematic way of pulling from that side list into my 5T list. For the 5T list, I basically follow the rules: when the list gets low, I think about what I need to do next,. and add those things to the list. If I can think of more than 5 things, then I write them all down, and then whittle it down to the top 5, and erase the rest. Takes about 30 seconds.
Sometimes the thing that's on my mind is that growing side list. So "Review Side List" naturally gets written onto my 5T list. And so I might end up spending 20-30 minutes working through that side list and deciding what to do with the things on it: take action; set up a project file; move an item to an Outlook reminder or calendar appointment; move an item to my Project/Deadline List; or just delete it. Sometimes the right thing to do with that side list is just erase the whole thing. I try to erase it at least once a day, but sometimes it hangs around for a few days till I get around to dealing with it -- at which point, it can usually just be erased because the stuff listed there is already done or doesn't need doing! This keeps it short and relevant and alive, and thus avoids the problems of a persistent "catch-all" list.
I handle my Projects/Deadlines list in a similar way, but it doesn't get deleted as often. It's just a list of reminders on my whiteboard of things that I've committed to doing, that I don't want to forget. Every now and then I think "I'd better go read through that list!" and so "Project List" gets written on my 5T. These are "hard" commitments, not just ideas or nice-to-haves (at least they don't start at that way).
March 22, 2016 at 19:36 |
Seraphim
Seraphim
Thanks, Seraphim (and Jesse, for the question).
I don't have the answer, but I do find it helpful to think about the different types of list, their purposes and constraints. (I'm pretty sure that this has been captured elsewhere.)
The "No-list".
Purpose: Focus your mind on the next actions you have committed to take.
Features: A single list of things that can be completed within the working period/ day. Short, closed, made up by you rather than coming from an external source
Timing: Transient. Thrown away at the end of the work period/ day.
Inboxes
Purpose: capture new information
Features: Multiple lists. Open, new items come in raw from the environment. can be long and rapidly growing.
Good Practice: Understand your inboxes as part of processes to be optimised. Consider how you can regulate the flow of new items. Seek to process all inboxes quickly and efficiently. Have a clear understanding of what is current and what is backlog. Clear inboxes regularly.
Timing: Permanent. Lasts until you have found a way to close off that input channel.
Dynamic list
Purpose: develop tasks into detailed actions.
Features: Open, but constrained: focused on a single objective
Timing: Transient. Thrown away at the end of the working period.
Accumulating list
Purpose: build a complete list of things to remember to complete a specific task
Features: Open but constrained: focused on a single task
Timing: Kept until needed for the task.
Diary/ Calendar
Purpose: keep track of things that will happen at a particular time
Features: Open but constrained by what can realistically be done in the given time
Commitments list
Purpose: checklist of approved things to work on
Features: Closed. Can only be added to when you have been through a process to asses that you have time available. Short. Graven on your heart in fiery letters.
Timing: Permanent
Grasscatcher
Purpose: capture all tasks you might do
Features: open, long. May or may not have a process to turn into action.
Timing: permanent
Best practice: Don't build your attention management system on this, as it will dilute focus.
I have a feeling that a short "no-list" (possibly just the next task), supported by a judicious mix of:
- dynamic lists to build momentum and get the related tasks done during the day,
- accumulating lists to build complete plans over time and ensure nothing gets forgotten
- a well kept diary/calendar
- hygienically clean inboxes and
- a short list of sharply defined commitments
should get the job done.
I sometimes find it difficult to determine my next action. This is worrying: the point of "no-list" is to increase focus. It should be pulling me into the next decision. My list of commitments may be a little fuzzy. Perhaps I should sharpen it up. Some metrics, perhaps?
I don't have the answer, but I do find it helpful to think about the different types of list, their purposes and constraints. (I'm pretty sure that this has been captured elsewhere.)
The "No-list".
Purpose: Focus your mind on the next actions you have committed to take.
Features: A single list of things that can be completed within the working period/ day. Short, closed, made up by you rather than coming from an external source
Timing: Transient. Thrown away at the end of the work period/ day.
Inboxes
Purpose: capture new information
Features: Multiple lists. Open, new items come in raw from the environment. can be long and rapidly growing.
Good Practice: Understand your inboxes as part of processes to be optimised. Consider how you can regulate the flow of new items. Seek to process all inboxes quickly and efficiently. Have a clear understanding of what is current and what is backlog. Clear inboxes regularly.
Timing: Permanent. Lasts until you have found a way to close off that input channel.
Dynamic list
Purpose: develop tasks into detailed actions.
Features: Open, but constrained: focused on a single objective
Timing: Transient. Thrown away at the end of the working period.
Accumulating list
Purpose: build a complete list of things to remember to complete a specific task
Features: Open but constrained: focused on a single task
Timing: Kept until needed for the task.
Diary/ Calendar
Purpose: keep track of things that will happen at a particular time
Features: Open but constrained by what can realistically be done in the given time
Commitments list
Purpose: checklist of approved things to work on
Features: Closed. Can only be added to when you have been through a process to asses that you have time available. Short. Graven on your heart in fiery letters.
Timing: Permanent
Grasscatcher
Purpose: capture all tasks you might do
Features: open, long. May or may not have a process to turn into action.
Timing: permanent
Best practice: Don't build your attention management system on this, as it will dilute focus.
I have a feeling that a short "no-list" (possibly just the next task), supported by a judicious mix of:
- dynamic lists to build momentum and get the related tasks done during the day,
- accumulating lists to build complete plans over time and ensure nothing gets forgotten
- a well kept diary/calendar
- hygienically clean inboxes and
- a short list of sharply defined commitments
should get the job done.
I sometimes find it difficult to determine my next action. This is worrying: the point of "no-list" is to increase focus. It should be pulling me into the next decision. My list of commitments may be a little fuzzy. Perhaps I should sharpen it up. Some metrics, perhaps?
March 22, 2016 at 20:48 |
Will
Will
Wil:
That's a pretty good summary.
<< I sometimes find it difficult to determine my next action. This is worrying: the point of "no-list" is to increase focus. It should be pulling me into the next decision. >>
I wouldn't worry too much about that. No-list is intended to make you think - not in a logical linear way but in a whole-brain way. And if there's one thing I've learned about thinking it's that brilliant new insights rise out of a whole collection of dross!
That's a pretty good summary.
<< I sometimes find it difficult to determine my next action. This is worrying: the point of "no-list" is to increase focus. It should be pulling me into the next decision. >>
I wouldn't worry too much about that. No-list is intended to make you think - not in a logical linear way but in a whole-brain way. And if there's one thing I've learned about thinking it's that brilliant new insights rise out of a whole collection of dross!
March 22, 2016 at 23:06 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
Thanks, Mark.
"...brilliant new insights rise out of a whole collection of dross!"
Then I am well supplied with the raw materials... great things will no doubt be along shortly.
"...brilliant new insights rise out of a whole collection of dross!"
Then I am well supplied with the raw materials... great things will no doubt be along shortly.
March 23, 2016 at 9:42 |
Will
Will
All fine, I suppose. The main thing I'm having trouble with is getting ALL that stuff to mesh with 5T, my preferred "no list".
The best thing I can come up with is this:
-I use 5T as normal, doing stuff and adding new items. When I add new items I add them from my brain. Sometimes they are on one of my many inboxes/lists/whatever, sometimes not. The important thing is that they come from my own mind because that means the stuff that gets actioned on is what I should be doing. It's pertinent.
-If I get to a point in the day where I'm racking my brain for what to add to the 5T list, when I only have two items and I just for the life of me think of what's important or whatever, I'll then add to it from one of my notes/calendars/inboxes. I know this is against the rules, as you are to add to it from your head, but I figure it's better to add something that I need or want to do to 5T rather than not or rack my brain and come up with something that feels like filler. OR is filler ok? Maybe I need to do something light and silly or unimportant?
If I'm having trouble putting items into 5T, should I take a break? Does it mean that I need food or sleep or am lonely or need to go for a walk? I guess. I should be putting those items on there right?
Reminders are another issue, but it seems that 5T is in no way designed for that. And that's fair. FVP isn't really either, actually! If you dot too many items with FVP, something timely could get buried back in the list. The arguments against a "catch-all" list being too maintenance heavy are spot-on, but hard to realize at first, even when spending time doing that maintenance!
What's helping me is realizing that all of these tools are necessary for me, as each one performs a unique duty that the others are less-suited for:
-a calendar in order to see generally what I am doing day to day and to help me say no to unimportant requests
-alarms or a BULLETPROOF reminder system for allowing me to work on something else and get into a flow without worrying about stopping or checking stuff
-a notepad/inbox of some sort to record items and notes that are not pertinent to what I'm doing so I don't stress or have to worry about my memory
-an engaging productivity system that is fun to use, lowering resistance, and that has noticeable real-world results. It can be as simple as a philosophy or single rule or as complex as GTD as long as it works
Combing these all into one "thing" is the dream, but I don't know if it's viable or I haven't seen it. I've searched the app store obsessively for something that does this and that can't be healthy.
This post has gotten a little long, and I'm not sure what the initial point is. I'm looking for an answer I guess, but I might have just found another clever way of procrastinating by looking for a perfect system, that we all know doesn't exist.
How do I stop looking for it? I feel like the search is making my life worse.