Discussion Forum > Two Book Darts and 5T walk into a bar...
Seraphim:
I'm worried that this notebook is really your 400+ item catch all-list in disguise. Please tell me I'm wrong!
I'm worried that this notebook is really your 400+ item catch all-list in disguise. Please tell me I'm wrong!
April 6, 2016 at 23:09 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
LOL! Could be. I guess we'll see how it plays out. :-)
April 6, 2016 at 23:22 |
Seraphim
Seraphim
Down to 400 already? Excellent progress!
April 7, 2016 at 17:26 |
Will
Will
About that 400 item list: How many of them are still relevant? How many can you do at one time? Are any of them obvious enough not to need writing? Can they be grouped? If you don't intend to build the backyard fence for a year, there's no sense spelling out all the steps. You'll probably remember them. Maybe keep a file for "backyard fence research".
April 24, 2016 at 5:00 |
Cricket
Cricket
I haven't referred to my FVP notebooks with the hundreds of tasks in them, for several months. But they are lying around here somewhere if I ever want them back. :-)
Meanwhile, this alternate 5T approach has been working pretty well. However, it turns out the 2 Book Darts is really overkill -- scanning the notebook occasionally just doesn't require that much process / overhead. Even with my tendency to create monster lists, my little catch-all notebook has remained surprisingly compact.
I usually still write my 5T list on a whiteboard. But sometimes (such as when I'm away from the whiteboard) I just write my 5T list on a new page in the notebook. And I've often been giving the process a little twist. I write out whatever tasks and projects come to mind that need attention -- generally 5 to 7 -- and then choose one and work on it. When I'm done with that task, I don't refer to the 5T list, but just start a new one. I write out whatever tasks come to mind, choose one, work on it, then repeat. Then occasionally I'll go back through all those pages and see what stuff I had captured. Surprisingly most of it just seems to get done all by itself. Most of the 5T pages are very similar but sometimes they take a very different turn during the course of the day.
This way of working keeps things very fresh and output-focused, while capturing all the stuff on my mind. And my not referring back to the 5T list, somehow keeps everything more alive in my mind, than forcing myself to stick with the original 5T list I had already written down.
If I start getting tired and can't think so clearly about what to do next, well, then I can just work through the last 5T list I wrote down, and that works fine too.
Meanwhile, this alternate 5T approach has been working pretty well. However, it turns out the 2 Book Darts is really overkill -- scanning the notebook occasionally just doesn't require that much process / overhead. Even with my tendency to create monster lists, my little catch-all notebook has remained surprisingly compact.
I usually still write my 5T list on a whiteboard. But sometimes (such as when I'm away from the whiteboard) I just write my 5T list on a new page in the notebook. And I've often been giving the process a little twist. I write out whatever tasks and projects come to mind that need attention -- generally 5 to 7 -- and then choose one and work on it. When I'm done with that task, I don't refer to the 5T list, but just start a new one. I write out whatever tasks come to mind, choose one, work on it, then repeat. Then occasionally I'll go back through all those pages and see what stuff I had captured. Surprisingly most of it just seems to get done all by itself. Most of the 5T pages are very similar but sometimes they take a very different turn during the course of the day.
This way of working keeps things very fresh and output-focused, while capturing all the stuff on my mind. And my not referring back to the 5T list, somehow keeps everything more alive in my mind, than forcing myself to stick with the original 5T list I had already written down.
If I start getting tired and can't think so clearly about what to do next, well, then I can just work through the last 5T list I wrote down, and that works fine too.
April 25, 2016 at 1:51 |
Seraphim
Seraphim
It sounds like forcing yourself to list 5 things before selecting one ensures you think beyond the "loudest" task.
I usually run most of a batch without referring to the list. I forget something important about once per batch. Since I'm trying to build routines, it's important that I do each group as a group. (I do the entire batch of about 5 things, not 3 and then add 3 more.)
As for reviewing old pages for actions, I like to read every page with actions every day or so. It doesn't take that long. When a spread (2 facing pages) has no more actions, I tear a corner. If the spread is entirely done (any reference info copied), I X the entire page. No need for book darts, and easy to find pages I need to review. Also saves time when the book is full. I can ignore any page that is X'd.
I usually run most of a batch without referring to the list. I forget something important about once per batch. Since I'm trying to build routines, it's important that I do each group as a group. (I do the entire batch of about 5 things, not 3 and then add 3 more.)
As for reviewing old pages for actions, I like to read every page with actions every day or so. It doesn't take that long. When a spread (2 facing pages) has no more actions, I tear a corner. If the spread is entirely done (any reference info copied), I X the entire page. No need for book darts, and easy to find pages I need to review. Also saves time when the book is full. I can ignore any page that is X'd.
April 25, 2016 at 3:28 |
Cricket
Cricket
Seraphim:
<< When I'm done with that task, I don't refer to the 5T list, but just start a new one. I write out whatever tasks come to mind, choose one, work on it, then repeat. >>
I think I mentioned that as a possibility a month or so back. I'm glad to hear that it actually works.
One question: do I understand correctly that you are using in effect one page of your notebook for every task you actually do?
<< When I'm done with that task, I don't refer to the 5T list, but just start a new one. I write out whatever tasks come to mind, choose one, work on it, then repeat. >>
I think I mentioned that as a possibility a month or so back. I'm glad to hear that it actually works.
One question: do I understand correctly that you are using in effect one page of your notebook for every task you actually do?
April 25, 2016 at 7:06 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
Cricket wrote:
<< It sounds like forcing yourself to list 5 things before selecting one ensures you think beyond the "loudest" task. >>
Yeah, that's pretty much it. It's a mini brain dump of whatever is on my mind. Putting it on the page let's me look it over and assess what needs to be done based on whatever criteria are most important at the moment.
<< I usually run most of a batch without referring to the list. I forget something important about once per batch. Since I'm trying to build routines, it's important that I do each group as a group. (I do the entire batch of about 5 things, not 3 and then add 3 more.) >>
After I select my main task, I often write a side "dynamic list" of the batch of subtasks needed for the main task. Sounds pretty similar to what you're doing, except I don't pay any attention to the size of the dynamic list. I throw it away by end of day anyway.
By the way, in case anyone is thinking this is a laborious process, the whole thing takes about 15 seconds to write out a 5T list and choose something to work on, and then maybe another 15 seconds if I need to write out a dynamic list. So it's very low overhead. :-)
<< It sounds like forcing yourself to list 5 things before selecting one ensures you think beyond the "loudest" task. >>
Yeah, that's pretty much it. It's a mini brain dump of whatever is on my mind. Putting it on the page let's me look it over and assess what needs to be done based on whatever criteria are most important at the moment.
<< I usually run most of a batch without referring to the list. I forget something important about once per batch. Since I'm trying to build routines, it's important that I do each group as a group. (I do the entire batch of about 5 things, not 3 and then add 3 more.) >>
After I select my main task, I often write a side "dynamic list" of the batch of subtasks needed for the main task. Sounds pretty similar to what you're doing, except I don't pay any attention to the size of the dynamic list. I throw it away by end of day anyway.
By the way, in case anyone is thinking this is a laborious process, the whole thing takes about 15 seconds to write out a 5T list and choose something to work on, and then maybe another 15 seconds if I need to write out a dynamic list. So it's very low overhead. :-)
April 25, 2016 at 19:36 |
Seraphim
Seraphim
Mark Forster wrote:
<< One question: do I understand correctly that you are using in effect one page of your notebook for every task you actually do? >>
Yes, when I am using my notebook to write out my 5T list. It's a tiny pocket Moleskine-type notebook with small pages, so it's not so much of a waste of paper as one might think. If I need a "dynamic list" for the task at hand, I can use the same page for that list too.
One benefit of this approach is being able to turn from page to page and see how things evolve through the course of time. Helps to see patterns.
I should note that I work from my whiteboard most of the time, not from the notebook. So I'm only now filling up the notebook that I started a couple weeks ago.
<< One question: do I understand correctly that you are using in effect one page of your notebook for every task you actually do? >>
Yes, when I am using my notebook to write out my 5T list. It's a tiny pocket Moleskine-type notebook with small pages, so it's not so much of a waste of paper as one might think. If I need a "dynamic list" for the task at hand, I can use the same page for that list too.
One benefit of this approach is being able to turn from page to page and see how things evolve through the course of time. Helps to see patterns.
I should note that I work from my whiteboard most of the time, not from the notebook. So I'm only now filling up the notebook that I started a couple weeks ago.
April 25, 2016 at 19:40 |
Seraphim
Seraphim
Seraphim:
<< It's a tiny pocket Moleskine-type notebook with small pages, so it's not so much of a waste of paper as one might think.>>
I tried it briefly this morning with a standard size Moleskine. My idea was to use three columns and to write the 5T lists at the top of the first column on each page up to the end of the book. Then to write them at the top of the second columns in the same way. And so on until I'd written the last 5T at the bottom of all the third columns. Then the book would be full, but I'd have got about 3/5ths as many tasks in the book as I would with a normal one column layout.
But I decided that it was too slow for me and quickly abandoned the method.
<< It's a tiny pocket Moleskine-type notebook with small pages, so it's not so much of a waste of paper as one might think.>>
I tried it briefly this morning with a standard size Moleskine. My idea was to use three columns and to write the 5T lists at the top of the first column on each page up to the end of the book. Then to write them at the top of the second columns in the same way. And so on until I'd written the last 5T at the bottom of all the third columns. Then the book would be full, but I'd have got about 3/5ths as many tasks in the book as I would with a normal one column layout.
But I decided that it was too slow for me and quickly abandoned the method.
April 25, 2016 at 22:20 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
I've been playing with the Two Book Darts method I first described here:
http://markforster.squarespace.com/forum/post/2588221#post2589150
(obviously a spinoff of Mark's Two Bookdart method for reading a book - http://markforster.squarespace.com/blog/2016/4/2/how-to-read-a-book-once-twice.html )
Here is how I'm currently doing it:
(1) Use the basic 5T method with "dynamic lists" as needed
(2) Capture other tasks and reminders in a notebook, whenever you happen to think of them. I usually just date the page, and start capturing things. Then start a new page the next day. It doesn't matter that much.
(3) You can capture other things in the same notebook -- meeting notes, journal entries, project ideas, etc.
(4) Put two Book Darts on (or near) the first "active" task or page or item listed in the notebook.
(5) Whenever it happens to come to mind, put "notebook" on your 5T list. When you take action on this, find the earliest Book Dart in your notebook. From that point, read through the notebook for as long as you want. It's best to really read it, not just skim/scan. Cross out whatever pages or tasks are already done or no longer relevant. When you have read as much as you want to read, move the Book Dart to the point where you stopped reading. If you find that both Book Darts are on the last item on the last active page of your notebook, then repeat from (4).
The point is that you only actually work on things when you are doing 5T. The notebook is just a place to capture stuff. When you read through the notebook, the point is NOT to take action on any of it -- but just to read through it and refresh yourself what you wrote there.
It seems to work best to read through the notebook just before I take a break, or just before end of the day. Then while I am on the break, my mind is thinking about what I just read (consciously or unconsciously), and I find the important stuff popping into my head when I am ready to write out a new 5T list.
I'm experimenting with keeping my Project List simply as a page in the notebook, rather than a separate list. Seems to be working fine so far.
I really like how this "feels" -- very alive and engaging as with all the no-list variants, but with all the aesthetic pleasure of a single notebook for everything.