Discussion Forum > Paper versus electronic lists
I love paper. Every time I switch to electronic, I come back to paper in a few weeks. I use a shared online calendar, since it works best with the family, and every time I pull it out my heart rate goes up.
No, it's not so bad to have everything in a single book. I did it for years. Well, notebook plus calendar plus small books in key places in the house.
Check the main Bullet Journal website for ways to index notebooks. Lots of good ideas. Also ways to combine pages spread throughout the book into a single collection or thread, and make future reminders without drawing calendar pages. Don't get distracted by all the fancy coloured spreads on YouTube. Some find colouring helps them focus. Others find it raises the bar too high. Others (myself included) find it fun but distracting.
You can use pages in that system for any of Mark's systems.
My personal system is always changing, but the core is:
1. Always have a book handy, even it it's small. At home, I keep a notebook in my bedroom and by the phone. Also pad on the fridge with pen for groceries. Tiny book in my purse. When I worked, I found leaving the work book at work was freeing, but many others prefer to use the same book.
2. Writing in the wrong book is better than not writing at all. I review my books regularly enough that things get copied (or at least cross-referenced) soon enough.
3. As little recopying as possible. "See other book for details" is usually the best choice.
4. Make my notes easy to review. Make action items stand out. Cross out when I'm done with them. I don't index my books, but do clearly title and date each meeting, so they're easy to find. Others find it easier to index.
5. Start each meeting on a new page, so it's easy to cut out and archive. (Backup plan: File a photocopy.)
6. It's ok to start a new page, especially if it's easier to do that than find the old one.
I use the same book for all meetings, with symbols (see Bullet Journal for egs) to highlight action items during the meeting, including one for "clarify before leaving meeting". Page corner codes for "all action items dealt with" and "can throw out page". When the book is full, I let it sit a few months. By then, very few notes are still worth keeping.
Others prefer to keep the entire book, and say "see book date" in the project files. I find that's a lot of unnecessary paper on the bookshelf, and time spent writing "see book" notes. Also, with many different projects in a book, it's hard to know when you can throw it out.
No, it's not so bad to have everything in a single book. I did it for years. Well, notebook plus calendar plus small books in key places in the house.
Check the main Bullet Journal website for ways to index notebooks. Lots of good ideas. Also ways to combine pages spread throughout the book into a single collection or thread, and make future reminders without drawing calendar pages. Don't get distracted by all the fancy coloured spreads on YouTube. Some find colouring helps them focus. Others find it raises the bar too high. Others (myself included) find it fun but distracting.
You can use pages in that system for any of Mark's systems.
My personal system is always changing, but the core is:
1. Always have a book handy, even it it's small. At home, I keep a notebook in my bedroom and by the phone. Also pad on the fridge with pen for groceries. Tiny book in my purse. When I worked, I found leaving the work book at work was freeing, but many others prefer to use the same book.
2. Writing in the wrong book is better than not writing at all. I review my books regularly enough that things get copied (or at least cross-referenced) soon enough.
3. As little recopying as possible. "See other book for details" is usually the best choice.
4. Make my notes easy to review. Make action items stand out. Cross out when I'm done with them. I don't index my books, but do clearly title and date each meeting, so they're easy to find. Others find it easier to index.
5. Start each meeting on a new page, so it's easy to cut out and archive. (Backup plan: File a photocopy.)
6. It's ok to start a new page, especially if it's easier to do that than find the old one.
I use the same book for all meetings, with symbols (see Bullet Journal for egs) to highlight action items during the meeting, including one for "clarify before leaving meeting". Page corner codes for "all action items dealt with" and "can throw out page". When the book is full, I let it sit a few months. By then, very few notes are still worth keeping.
Others prefer to keep the entire book, and say "see book date" in the project files. I find that's a lot of unnecessary paper on the bookshelf, and time spent writing "see book" notes. Also, with many different projects in a book, it's hard to know when you can throw it out.
January 15, 2019 at 23:08 |
Cricket
Cricket
I have mostly been paper-based for my home activities, and only the last few months I switched to going all-digital. The key was getting a system that was flexible enough and I could easily work both from computer and phone. The motive for finding this system was that I was tired of overly fat pockets with a phone and a notebook and a pen and a wallet.
As an alternative, you could carry with you a very small note-making device so it doesn't get in the way as much, and your big book you don't have to carry everywhere. Copy things over to the big book when appropriate, and work mostly from the big book, but make small lists if you need to carry with you somewhere you don't want the whole book.
In fact, given all the above, the small lists could easily be your phone, which you deliberately make not your operating system.
As an alternative, you could carry with you a very small note-making device so it doesn't get in the way as much, and your big book you don't have to carry everywhere. Copy things over to the big book when appropriate, and work mostly from the big book, but make small lists if you need to carry with you somewhere you don't want the whole book.
In fact, given all the above, the small lists could easily be your phone, which you deliberately make not your operating system.
January 16, 2019 at 2:26 |
Alan Baljeu
Alan Baljeu
Cameron -
<<A notebook however just feels right. My main reason for wanting to use a notebook is that I feel glued to my phone/tablet when I work my lists. I don't want my kids (a 1 year-old and another on the way) to see me inseparable from my electronics. >>
I can relate to that! I’ve had exactly the same conflict.
<<1. I feel like I need to carry it around with me everywhere throughout the house in case I have an idea of something I need to, which sometimes feels bulky. With electronic, I can pull out my phone and add it to my list basically anywhere.>>
I solved this by using a notebook that’s small enough to carry with me all the time. Currently it’s a Field Notes 72-page “Signature” notebook (about 4”x6”) but I’ve also used the thinner Moleskines.
<<2. Meeting notes, thinking and idea notes generated from Mark's writing exercises, general reference ideas--where do I write these down? In my notebook? But then I need to transfer them to another sheet of paper and file them away? This is a huge sticking point for me--the idea that my lists of tasks, reference, and checklists are going to be separated across multiple physical systems. >>
I struggled with this for a long time. Here is how I solved it. I write stuff in my same little notebook, or maybe on a whiteboard. If I want to save it, I use the Evernote “Scannable” app to bring it quickly and easily into Evernote. Evernote is my archive for all my project notes, ideas, etc. It syncs across all devices, including my work laptop. If I need the material for work, it’s easy to copy/paste from Evernote into Microsoft OneNote.
<<Maybe the organization idea is overrated. Is it so bad if a bunch of notes and information scattered throughout a notebook?>>
It does have some upsides. Even after I move something into Evernote, I still have it in my paper notebook, which can inspire new ideas when I’m just scanning through my notebook during downtime.
I’d much rather capture ideas and writing in my notebook than in my phone. Much faster and easier, and more ergonomic.
<<I have my long list starting on page one and continuing forward, and then I flip the book around and start from the last page going backward for my notes/ideas etc. >>
Another way to do it is use left-hand pages for notes and right-hand pages for the Long List.
With No-List it feels natural just to mix up notes, ideas, and the No-Lists. I just start a new page whenever it’s needed. Or I use older pages that aren’t quite filled yet to scratch out some notes or ideas.
<<Maybe I use large sticky notes for 5x8 index cards stuck in the book for notes that I can remove? Or perhaps 8.5x11 folded in half?>>
I’ve tried all those things - in the end I developed the habit of carrying several stickies in the front and back of the notebook.
Maybe you’ll be able to use one or two of those ideas.
<<A notebook however just feels right. My main reason for wanting to use a notebook is that I feel glued to my phone/tablet when I work my lists. I don't want my kids (a 1 year-old and another on the way) to see me inseparable from my electronics. >>
I can relate to that! I’ve had exactly the same conflict.
<<1. I feel like I need to carry it around with me everywhere throughout the house in case I have an idea of something I need to, which sometimes feels bulky. With electronic, I can pull out my phone and add it to my list basically anywhere.>>
I solved this by using a notebook that’s small enough to carry with me all the time. Currently it’s a Field Notes 72-page “Signature” notebook (about 4”x6”) but I’ve also used the thinner Moleskines.
<<2. Meeting notes, thinking and idea notes generated from Mark's writing exercises, general reference ideas--where do I write these down? In my notebook? But then I need to transfer them to another sheet of paper and file them away? This is a huge sticking point for me--the idea that my lists of tasks, reference, and checklists are going to be separated across multiple physical systems. >>
I struggled with this for a long time. Here is how I solved it. I write stuff in my same little notebook, or maybe on a whiteboard. If I want to save it, I use the Evernote “Scannable” app to bring it quickly and easily into Evernote. Evernote is my archive for all my project notes, ideas, etc. It syncs across all devices, including my work laptop. If I need the material for work, it’s easy to copy/paste from Evernote into Microsoft OneNote.
<<Maybe the organization idea is overrated. Is it so bad if a bunch of notes and information scattered throughout a notebook?>>
It does have some upsides. Even after I move something into Evernote, I still have it in my paper notebook, which can inspire new ideas when I’m just scanning through my notebook during downtime.
I’d much rather capture ideas and writing in my notebook than in my phone. Much faster and easier, and more ergonomic.
<<I have my long list starting on page one and continuing forward, and then I flip the book around and start from the last page going backward for my notes/ideas etc. >>
Another way to do it is use left-hand pages for notes and right-hand pages for the Long List.
With No-List it feels natural just to mix up notes, ideas, and the No-Lists. I just start a new page whenever it’s needed. Or I use older pages that aren’t quite filled yet to scratch out some notes or ideas.
<<Maybe I use large sticky notes for 5x8 index cards stuck in the book for notes that I can remove? Or perhaps 8.5x11 folded in half?>>
I’ve tried all those things - in the end I developed the habit of carrying several stickies in the front and back of the notebook.
Maybe you’ll be able to use one or two of those ideas.
January 16, 2019 at 13:31 |
Seraphim
Seraphim
I have one idea more.
You are speaking about an either-or approach but the solution can be also a both-and approach.
Brains think differently if the lists are on paper or on digital devices. The instruction I saw once was to use first paper because it is easier and more intuitive and then to move the remaining items to a digital list.
As I use Real AutoFocus ? RAF, or as I call it 'Actionable Tasks - within 3 days', the RAF version is on paper and the deferred tasks/ideas/etc. are on digital lists/buckets/etc.
And about notebooks, there are spiral notebooks (perforated) wherefrom you can neatly take a page and move it elsewhere or throw away. I use such notebooks myself.
Hope this gives some new ideas.
You are speaking about an either-or approach but the solution can be also a both-and approach.
Brains think differently if the lists are on paper or on digital devices. The instruction I saw once was to use first paper because it is easier and more intuitive and then to move the remaining items to a digital list.
As I use Real AutoFocus ? RAF, or as I call it 'Actionable Tasks - within 3 days', the RAF version is on paper and the deferred tasks/ideas/etc. are on digital lists/buckets/etc.
And about notebooks, there are spiral notebooks (perforated) wherefrom you can neatly take a page and move it elsewhere or throw away. I use such notebooks myself.
Hope this gives some new ideas.
January 17, 2019 at 20:57 |
paivi
paivi
I really appreciate everybody's inputs. I've starting to like physical notebooks more and more. Before reading any of your responses I just forced myself to start using one notebook for work and one for home and see what solutions I had to come up with in the moment.
Here is what I'm learning:
- I like the idea of sticky notes in my notebook, but in practice, I know they will be messy. I'm abandoning that idea.
- I've tried the full-fledged bullet journal before. I had a hard time following it to the letter. But I think what may be helpful is alternating pages for either notes or tasks. Once a page is assigned to be a notes or tasks page, it remains that way as it fills up.
- Right now I just use the next empty page when I need it for either either new notes or new tasks. I'm not sure if it's going to be a pain to skip over the notes pages when I scan my lists or not. We'll see.
- I like the idea of left hand side for notes, right hand side for tasks. I may move to that. The downside is that I write more tasks than notes/ideas, so I think I'd finish a book with a lot of empty pages on the left.
- I have just been using my phone for capturing new ideas the same way I was before. I then have to make so that I transfer over to my book. So far its not too bad, but I did miss one thing that I forgot was on my phone. I've used tiny pocket notebooks by Moleskine before. Perhaps I'll do that again.
- I'm not entirely sure how to deal with notes quite yet--whether to tear out the perforated pages from my work notebook and file them, and also whether to leave all my notes in my personal bound notebook and transfer them as needed to other sheets. This will take time to figure out.
- A good reference system is still an elusive thing for me. I'm going to post about that on a new thread right away.
I'm not responding to each individual suggestion, but I have taken them in and will incorporate a lot of them. Thank you all.
Here is what I'm learning:
- I like the idea of sticky notes in my notebook, but in practice, I know they will be messy. I'm abandoning that idea.
- I've tried the full-fledged bullet journal before. I had a hard time following it to the letter. But I think what may be helpful is alternating pages for either notes or tasks. Once a page is assigned to be a notes or tasks page, it remains that way as it fills up.
- Right now I just use the next empty page when I need it for either either new notes or new tasks. I'm not sure if it's going to be a pain to skip over the notes pages when I scan my lists or not. We'll see.
- I like the idea of left hand side for notes, right hand side for tasks. I may move to that. The downside is that I write more tasks than notes/ideas, so I think I'd finish a book with a lot of empty pages on the left.
- I have just been using my phone for capturing new ideas the same way I was before. I then have to make so that I transfer over to my book. So far its not too bad, but I did miss one thing that I forgot was on my phone. I've used tiny pocket notebooks by Moleskine before. Perhaps I'll do that again.
- I'm not entirely sure how to deal with notes quite yet--whether to tear out the perforated pages from my work notebook and file them, and also whether to leave all my notes in my personal bound notebook and transfer them as needed to other sheets. This will take time to figure out.
- A good reference system is still an elusive thing for me. I'm going to post about that on a new thread right away.
I'm not responding to each individual suggestion, but I have taken them in and will incorporate a lot of them. Thank you all.
January 18, 2019 at 22:27 |
Cameron
Cameron
Cameron,
Can I ask you how you would work the list meathod with workflowy.
(I’ve just come across Mark and this approach, up until now though Workflowy has just been a god send for me to keep track of things.... I mean, I survived before of course but I think it did give me a sense of being on top of things.)
I’ve started to adapt what I’m reading here. I’m also reading do it tomorrow.
Cheers!
Can I ask you how you would work the list meathod with workflowy.
(I’ve just come across Mark and this approach, up until now though Workflowy has just been a god send for me to keep track of things.... I mean, I survived before of course but I think it did give me a sense of being on top of things.)
I’ve started to adapt what I’m reading here. I’m also reading do it tomorrow.
Cheers!
January 20, 2019 at 16:14 |
Nick
Nick
<Can I ask you how you would work the list method with workflowy?>
Sure thing Nick. It wasn't perfect, but I think WorkFlowy is one of the better digital list options out there.
I had two main bullets:
- PERSONAL
- WORK
Within each bullet I had the same set of subbullets:
- INBOX
- TASKS
- REFERENCE
- CHECKLISTS
Here is a description of each category:
INBOX: Honestly, I had a hard time using my inbox as a capture location. After a while I just ended up inputting everything into "TASKS" because I knew that I would eventually review everything using "simple scanning". If something was reference, then I just moved it to reference. If you do have an inbox, just process it regularly and decide if something is a task, reference, part of a checklist, or needs to be deleted.
TASKS: This included anything and everything I wanted or needed to do. This is generally where I captured new tasks. I didn't didn't distinguish between a "project" or an "action" like Getting Things Done does. I just wrote everything down large or small. I think it's okay to use an "approved projects list" or something per Mark. But it is not required. I tried to use this list like a notebook, so if I had a new thing I added it at the bottom. The mobile apps have a + button that adds a new item at the top. Unfortunately this is not where I wanted it to be added, so I had to scroll to the bottom of my list to add it. I've been mainly using the simple scanning algorithm to process this list. I would rewrite the item at the end of the list and cross it off per the instructions. The mobile apps allow you to just swipe right to cross through an item, and left to delete. I have an iPad that I would mainly use for reviewing because it was bigger. If I had a keyboard with it I could easily take notes during meetings too right into the software.
REFERENCE: This is where I stored anything that I wanted to refer to later. There are many subbullets under this heading. Sometimes information tended to get lost inside this bullet. It would go in there and I'd never review it again.
CHECKLISTS: I would use this for repeatable things like morning routines, end of workday routines, packing lists, etc.
I used to mix personal and work tasks, reference, and checklists together. But it started to get a little muddy. I separated them a few weeks ago and I like the results better. Now when I am at work I don't think much about home tasks, and vice versa.
I started out using a notebook and pen, then moved to WorkFlowy, then back to notebook and pen. I think WorkFlowy is my preferred for electronic, and I don't discourage anybody from using it. I am trying pen and paper both because it more fun, I use it more, and I don't want my kids to see my always on my tablet and phone. I'll probably switch back to electronic sooner or later...just knowing me and my propensity for thinking something else is "The Solution". I take comfort in knowing that at least Mark is still trying new things and he's been doing this kind of stuff for many years.
Sure thing Nick. It wasn't perfect, but I think WorkFlowy is one of the better digital list options out there.
I had two main bullets:
- PERSONAL
- WORK
Within each bullet I had the same set of subbullets:
- INBOX
- TASKS
- REFERENCE
- CHECKLISTS
Here is a description of each category:
INBOX: Honestly, I had a hard time using my inbox as a capture location. After a while I just ended up inputting everything into "TASKS" because I knew that I would eventually review everything using "simple scanning". If something was reference, then I just moved it to reference. If you do have an inbox, just process it regularly and decide if something is a task, reference, part of a checklist, or needs to be deleted.
TASKS: This included anything and everything I wanted or needed to do. This is generally where I captured new tasks. I didn't didn't distinguish between a "project" or an "action" like Getting Things Done does. I just wrote everything down large or small. I think it's okay to use an "approved projects list" or something per Mark. But it is not required. I tried to use this list like a notebook, so if I had a new thing I added it at the bottom. The mobile apps have a + button that adds a new item at the top. Unfortunately this is not where I wanted it to be added, so I had to scroll to the bottom of my list to add it. I've been mainly using the simple scanning algorithm to process this list. I would rewrite the item at the end of the list and cross it off per the instructions. The mobile apps allow you to just swipe right to cross through an item, and left to delete. I have an iPad that I would mainly use for reviewing because it was bigger. If I had a keyboard with it I could easily take notes during meetings too right into the software.
REFERENCE: This is where I stored anything that I wanted to refer to later. There are many subbullets under this heading. Sometimes information tended to get lost inside this bullet. It would go in there and I'd never review it again.
CHECKLISTS: I would use this for repeatable things like morning routines, end of workday routines, packing lists, etc.
I used to mix personal and work tasks, reference, and checklists together. But it started to get a little muddy. I separated them a few weeks ago and I like the results better. Now when I am at work I don't think much about home tasks, and vice versa.
I started out using a notebook and pen, then moved to WorkFlowy, then back to notebook and pen. I think WorkFlowy is my preferred for electronic, and I don't discourage anybody from using it. I am trying pen and paper both because it more fun, I use it more, and I don't want my kids to see my always on my tablet and phone. I'll probably switch back to electronic sooner or later...just knowing me and my propensity for thinking something else is "The Solution". I take comfort in knowing that at least Mark is still trying new things and he's been doing this kind of stuff for many years.
January 20, 2019 at 22:52 |
Cameron
Cameron
Thanks for this run down Cameron.
Much more comprehensive than I was expecting so I'm feeling like this reply will be a bit meek in comparison!
I hear you about not wanting to expose your daughter and model being glued to a screen.. Not a problem I have yet but one i'm sure I'll think about when I do.
I'm experiencing the same thing with Inbox vs Tasks. currently I'm treating inbox for reference/notes and tasks/my list as anything with actions attached to it... but If I have a thought which is a note and it sits in my inbox for too long it just goes stale.. In fact i'm going to add that to the cyclical list "Sort inbox"
Reference I have a tonne of in WF... as a aside, if you use chrome I suggested an idea to a digital friend to make a 'random bullet' bookmarklet - its great! you click it and it displays a random bullet from what ever list your in and it's children/grandchildren etc. IT's a cool way to rediscover that which you would otherwise never seek out. https://rawbytz.blogspot.com/p/random-bullet-bookmarklet-for-workflowy.html
I'm currently using one long list but using Emoji's which can help only see certain things.
Eg:
fix door 🔨
write email ✍️
clear inbox 💻
(they are all in keyboard short cuts and macros so its really fast)
as well as search terms
eg DF for digital focus and it will only show things I can work at from my computer.
or HF home focus and it will show more manual tasks and carpentry /garden stuff.
I'll continue to learn about marks systems and see what works best. I might get a 'work' list started as i've noticed with only 2 hrs in the office it's easy for me to do digital work, that's more trivial and doesn't necessarily advance my coaching practice. Necessary but not groundbreaking in pushing the business forward.
Good luck with your system!
Much more comprehensive than I was expecting so I'm feeling like this reply will be a bit meek in comparison!
I hear you about not wanting to expose your daughter and model being glued to a screen.. Not a problem I have yet but one i'm sure I'll think about when I do.
I'm experiencing the same thing with Inbox vs Tasks. currently I'm treating inbox for reference/notes and tasks/my list as anything with actions attached to it... but If I have a thought which is a note and it sits in my inbox for too long it just goes stale.. In fact i'm going to add that to the cyclical list "Sort inbox"
Reference I have a tonne of in WF... as a aside, if you use chrome I suggested an idea to a digital friend to make a 'random bullet' bookmarklet - its great! you click it and it displays a random bullet from what ever list your in and it's children/grandchildren etc. IT's a cool way to rediscover that which you would otherwise never seek out. https://rawbytz.blogspot.com/p/random-bullet-bookmarklet-for-workflowy.html
I'm currently using one long list but using Emoji's which can help only see certain things.
Eg:
fix door 🔨
write email ✍️
clear inbox 💻
(they are all in keyboard short cuts and macros so its really fast)
as well as search terms
eg DF for digital focus and it will only show things I can work at from my computer.
or HF home focus and it will show more manual tasks and carpentry /garden stuff.
I'll continue to learn about marks systems and see what works best. I might get a 'work' list started as i've noticed with only 2 hrs in the office it's easy for me to do digital work, that's more trivial and doesn't necessarily advance my coaching practice. Necessary but not groundbreaking in pushing the business forward.
Good luck with your system!
January 23, 2019 at 13:46 |
Nick
Nick
I have the same conflict than you Digital / Versus paper.
Digital is great for collecting and organizing stuff. For this I use omnifocus with GTD method wich works pretty well with me until action. I tried my best using context but it never worked really with me.
Working on a list with AF / AF4 or even FV is much better and much faster. There is a kind a special feeling wich make me doing things. So I write things down mostlt extraxted from Omnifocus and I cross little by little. I make and remake my lists on paper and pen.
It has 2 advantages
First I always do what I really deel doing which is mostly the important or urgent stuff. Secont my brain feel quiet because he knows that stuff is on the list and on omnifocus projects. It has a disadvantage it makes me review things often and force me to make some time blocking for important projects and also my weekly review is longer.
I did not find the" perfect system " it just help me for doing things and acting fast. There is only one rule every thing new goes to inbox omnifocus and is treated in a GTD way so my paper list is a kind of close list wich is often thrown away when I feel like
Digital is great for collecting and organizing stuff. For this I use omnifocus with GTD method wich works pretty well with me until action. I tried my best using context but it never worked really with me.
Working on a list with AF / AF4 or even FV is much better and much faster. There is a kind a special feeling wich make me doing things. So I write things down mostlt extraxted from Omnifocus and I cross little by little. I make and remake my lists on paper and pen.
It has 2 advantages
First I always do what I really deel doing which is mostly the important or urgent stuff. Secont my brain feel quiet because he knows that stuff is on the list and on omnifocus projects. It has a disadvantage it makes me review things often and force me to make some time blocking for important projects and also my weekly review is longer.
I did not find the" perfect system " it just help me for doing things and acting fast. There is only one rule every thing new goes to inbox omnifocus and is treated in a GTD way so my paper list is a kind of close list wich is often thrown away when I feel like
January 23, 2019 at 17:59 |
Jupiter
Jupiter
Hello, friends. Thanks for all of your posts. They are very inspiring.
I have very similar experiencies using paper and digital tools. The digital has some advantages, eg: searchable, portability, etc. But paper puts my brain in other mood, and Mark's systems, with the focus on intuition and subconscious gears, works better with paper, at least for me.
Currently, I'm using a single notebook (spiral notebook A4 size) where I write my catch-all lists an notes. I have the same isue in dealing with notes and lists, and Bullet Journal, even if itś a great system, requires much effort to keep it organized. So, I have a very simple approach that took inspiration from the Everything notebook from Raul Pacheco (http://www.raulpacheco.org/2016/08/starting-up-and-maintaining-an-everything-notebook/). I write my lists from the beggining of the notebook and my notes (similar to the collections on Bullet Journal) from the back. Then, I use sticky tabs to identify the collections. It works faster than making an index, and my notes all are group togheter.
As I work with a spiral notebook, when I complete a sheet and continue with another (in the notes section) I tear off one of them and attach it to the other, so the notes on a subject are all at the same group of pages and easy to review.
I have very similar experiencies using paper and digital tools. The digital has some advantages, eg: searchable, portability, etc. But paper puts my brain in other mood, and Mark's systems, with the focus on intuition and subconscious gears, works better with paper, at least for me.
Currently, I'm using a single notebook (spiral notebook A4 size) where I write my catch-all lists an notes. I have the same isue in dealing with notes and lists, and Bullet Journal, even if itś a great system, requires much effort to keep it organized. So, I have a very simple approach that took inspiration from the Everything notebook from Raul Pacheco (http://www.raulpacheco.org/2016/08/starting-up-and-maintaining-an-everything-notebook/). I write my lists from the beggining of the notebook and my notes (similar to the collections on Bullet Journal) from the back. Then, I use sticky tabs to identify the collections. It works faster than making an index, and my notes all are group togheter.
As I work with a spiral notebook, when I complete a sheet and continue with another (in the notes section) I tear off one of them and attach it to the other, so the notes on a subject are all at the same group of pages and easy to review.
January 24, 2019 at 13:58 |
Pablo
Pablo
right link is http://www.raulpacheco.org/2016/08/starting-up-and-maintaining-an-everything-notebook/
January 25, 2019 at 11:57 |
Jupiter
Jupiter
It was interesting to read about the Everything Notebook. There is always something appealing to me to see a notebook like that -- filled with good info, thoughts, notes, meetings, things to do, etc. Everything in one place. It obviously really gets USED. That's always had a strong appeal.
But I couldn't really figure out what he was doing there. How to prevent it from just becoming a random collection of unorganized chaos. In my own experience, the more I would add tabs and symbols and colors and stuff like that, the more unfocused (and unused) it would all become.
But I couldn't really figure out what he was doing there. How to prevent it from just becoming a random collection of unorganized chaos. In my own experience, the more I would add tabs and symbols and colors and stuff like that, the more unfocused (and unused) it would all become.
January 27, 2019 at 1:24 |
Seraphim
Seraphim
Seraphim,
"It was interesting to read about the Everything Notebook... But I couldn't really figure out what he was doing there. How to prevent it from just becoming a random collection of unorganized chaos."
I had the very same reaction!
"It was interesting to read about the Everything Notebook... But I couldn't really figure out what he was doing there. How to prevent it from just becoming a random collection of unorganized chaos."
I had the very same reaction!
January 27, 2019 at 3:36 |
Bernie
Bernie
Seraphim, Bernie:
I have the same feeling. That ˋs maybe why I´m not following the exact directives from Pacheco. For example, I don´t use colours (at least, I don´t use any colour code system). The only thing I take from his method is the tabs for collections. So, my notebook starts from the front cover with my long list, and from the back with collections of notes over particular subjetcts. Thatˋs the one I tab, instead of index.
I have the same feeling. That ˋs maybe why I´m not following the exact directives from Pacheco. For example, I don´t use colours (at least, I don´t use any colour code system). The only thing I take from his method is the tabs for collections. So, my notebook starts from the front cover with my long list, and from the back with collections of notes over particular subjetcts. Thatˋs the one I tab, instead of index.
January 27, 2019 at 21:35 |
Pablo
Pablo
I was a diehard workflowy user until I switched to using an iPad Pro as a primary work device. The lack of keyboard support made it a dealbreaker.
I use a physical notebook for list management and generally prefer it. Like most folks on here mentioned, I keep a smaller notebook (rite in the rain) with me to add things.
I also use Drafts on my iPhone to capture items while I'm driving or out and about. I just have a process of going to the capture sheet and adding it to my physical list when I get back to my notebook. Seems to work well enough.
I use a physical notebook for list management and generally prefer it. Like most folks on here mentioned, I keep a smaller notebook (rite in the rain) with me to add things.
I also use Drafts on my iPhone to capture items while I'm driving or out and about. I just have a process of going to the capture sheet and adding it to my physical list when I get back to my notebook. Seems to work well enough.
January 27, 2019 at 21:47 |
Mike N
Mike N
Ipad/Apple Pencil (and any of the note taking apps).
Most of the benefits of pen/paper & digital. It's not perfect (no solution is), but I own 'em all, and this is working very well for me.
Most of the benefits of pen/paper & digital. It's not perfect (no solution is), but I own 'em all, and this is working very well for me.
January 27, 2019 at 22:05 |
avrum
avrum
I’ve moved to completely digital with the iPad Pro and Apple Pencil 2. I use Goodnotes and have the best of both worlds. I write with the pen, but can search my handwriting and cut and paste my handwriting to move things about. I always carried around a paper notebook, but have not missed it once in the last month since moving to the iPad pro + pencil.
March 31, 2019 at 20:21 |
Simon
Simon
I'm going to give it a go Simon. I've set it up with Apple notes so that I can tap the screen from the iPad being off and the list will appear.
April 1, 2019 at 12:47 |
Nick
Nick
Hi Nick,
Apple notes is nowhere near as good as Goodnotes 5. Goodnotes allows you to create PDF templates that you can use for your pages. It also gives you standard page sizes such as A4, A5 Letter, etc, should you wish to print your notes.
Apple notes is nowhere near as good as Goodnotes 5. Goodnotes allows you to create PDF templates that you can use for your pages. It also gives you standard page sizes such as A4, A5 Letter, etc, should you wish to print your notes.
April 1, 2019 at 15:50 |
Simon
Simon
Thanks, im sure its a fantastic app. Personally I use notability for many things and it suits my usages.
But In moving closer to paper im looking for instant access and I believe only notes can do that. For this purpose of the one big list im going to give it a go. Otherwise im an avid Workflowy fan but I want to try being able to cross stuff out and reenter things manually to get a feel for analogue listing.
But In moving closer to paper im looking for instant access and I believe only notes can do that. For this purpose of the one big list im going to give it a go. Otherwise im an avid Workflowy fan but I want to try being able to cross stuff out and reenter things manually to get a feel for analogue listing.
April 1, 2019 at 17:07 |
Nick
Nick
I don’t know if you can do this with Apple Notes or Notability, but with Goodnotes if you use the split screen, you can actually drag your handwritten notes to say, reminders and it converts to plain text so you can set a reminder or send an email etc.
Truly the best of both worlds.
Truly the best of both worlds.
April 1, 2019 at 17:53 |
Simon
Simon
I use Dynalist having moved over from workflowy. The dates function is super useful. I tend to move all email and documents into Devnonthink Pro Office and then use the item/group link to past a link into Dynalist so that I can see all documents on any device. As I’m in a mac eco system, with Devonthink to go I can access anything anywhere.
April 1, 2019 at 17:56 |
Simon
Simon
That is very interesting about dragging too reminders. Thanks for that.
Also love the workflow you present on Devon think and dynamic list... I’m not familiar with devon think, will check it out - buuuut, if you feel inclined to do a screen cast of your workflow i’d Be a keen audience!
Also love the workflow you present on Devon think and dynamic list... I’m not familiar with devon think, will check it out - buuuut, if you feel inclined to do a screen cast of your workflow i’d Be a keen audience!
April 2, 2019 at 13:56 |
Nick
Nick
My electronic lists have the benefits of having all of my lists in one place. I have a tasks lists, a reference list, and a checklist for each of my personal and work main categories. It also has the benefit of syncing across devices, so I can easily add to it wherever I am since I almost always have my phone nearby. The software WorkFlowy is also kind of fun to use. It allows me to keep everything organized in it's proper list, yet all in one accessible place.
A notebook however just feels right. My main reason for wanting to use a notebook is that I feel glued to my phone/tablet when I work my lists. I don't want my kids (a 1 year-old and another on the way) to see me inseparable from my electronics. I also want my kids to develop the habit of writing stuff down they need to do, so hopefully my example over the years will leave somewhat of an impression on their minds.
I'm experiencing a coluple of downsides to a notebook though that are creating a lot of friction in the system:
1. I feel like I need to carry it around with me everywhere throughout the house in case I have an idea of something I need to, which sometimes feels bulky. With electronic, I can pull out my phone and add it to my list basically anywhere.
2. Meeting notes, thinking and idea notes generated from Mark's writing exercises, general reference ideas--where do I write these down? In my notebook? But then I need to transfer them to another sheet of paper and file them away? This is a huge sticking point for me--the idea that my lists of tasks, reference, and checklists are going to be separated across multiple physical systems. When I freeform write too, I can't really rip out a page of my bound notebook to group it together with other similar items or file it away. Basically, this is a problem of centrality and organization. I want all items in one central location, and I want to be able to capture and record ideas that can be organized.
Maybe the organization idea is overrated. Is it so bad if a bunch of notes and information scattered throughout a notebook?
I've started to try a physical notebook the past few days, at least for my personal tasks. I have my long list starting on page one and continuing forward, and then I flip the book around and start from the last page going backward for my notes/ideas etc. A part of me would like to use one notebook for work and personal, with personal being forward-to-back direction, and work being the back-to-forward direction of the book. But then I don't have a place for notes. Maybe I use large sticky notes for 5x8 index cards stuck in the book for notes that I can remove? Or perhaps 8.5x11 folded in half?
I'm also realizing that my paper reference filing system is broken, but that is another post for another day.
For those that use a notebook, what have you found helps with these points?