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Discussion Forum > Atomic Habits

Atomic Habits is a book about a strategy for developing habits, which in a sentence is: Start your habit as small as possible. In fact, so small that you are very likely to be able (and willing) to keep it up.

I have not yet read the book, but I've heard plenty of talk about it.
So for example, you start your habit of running every day with "every day I pull out my running clothes". There's no obligation or even encouragement to do anything more than that. But you develop a plan that week by week progresses the habit in small amounts such that every week you are dealing with very small changes to your habits.

For example, my failure at the Lenten challenge might under this theory be attributed to trying too big of a habit, too fast. A smaller start might have been "every day I will look at the list".

I have been applying this atomic theory to sleep hours. Starting with "I will get up by the time I naturally am getting up.", I set a time to that, and now every week I am pushing that time back by 5 minutes. Over the course of a year that adds up to hours earlier, so eventually I will just decide what is early enough and settle into this plan. Anyway, under a scheme so easy I could hardly fail, I am nevertheless uncovering challenges to overcome. Specifically I need to restructure my evenings so that I get to bed at appropriate times. At 5 minutes a week earlier, this seems quite surmountable, but it exposes discipline challenges at a manageable pace to overcome them.
April 18, 2019 at 14:27 | Registered CommenterAlan Baljeu
I read the book, and returned (full disclosure: Only made it 1/2 way through).

There are likely a myriad of factors that inform the hype around these type of books. I'm surprised that I still get surprised by all of this.
April 18, 2019 at 14:48 | Registered Commenteravrum
Hype of course is created by the effort put into promoting the book. I don’t care how hyped it is though. I care if the ideas are useful.
April 18, 2019 at 17:49 | Registered CommenterAlan Baljeu
<<I care if the ideas are useful.>>

True. My reactivity has to do with how people are discussing the book i.e. The BEST book on habit change ever.

To my mind, the actual ideas/suggestions re: habits were very familiar, so that was disappointing. Also, I found the book dragged on and on.
April 18, 2019 at 20:29 | Registered Commenteravrum
I bought and read the book through about a month ago. A lot of these book seem to use similar ideas. In my opinion BJ Gogh Tiny Habits is the go to person on building habits quickly and effectively.
April 19, 2019 at 15:25 | Unregistered Commenterleon
Oops (sausage fingers) BJ Gogh I meant...
April 19, 2019 at 15:26 | Unregistered Commenterleon
Aaagghh...(autospell)...BJ Fogg!!!
April 19, 2019 at 15:27 | Unregistered Commenterleon
BJ Fogg has a great little e-book (28 screens easily read on a phone) on the Tiny Habits concepts:
http://bjfogg.org/lastingchange/

I also just found he has a nice little free coaching session, which I am thinking about giving a try: http://www.tinyhabits.com/join

Has anyone here tried it?
April 19, 2019 at 15:45 | Registered CommenterSeraphim
Hi Seraphim, I did it and it's a great course. From there I also trained to be Tiny Habits coach where I learnt a lot more about Tiny Habits.
April 20, 2019 at 12:48 | Unregistered Commenterleon
It occurs to me that Tiny Habits is basically the same thing as Kaizen (caveat not an expert at either). One month ago I started a plan to shift my wakeup time. The plan was:
1. Note what time you naturally wake up. (But not the super late time when you oversleep.)
2. Set an alarm for that time.
3. Each week move the alarm up 5 minutes.
4. Continue for 6 months and you will have 2 hours gained.
This could be accelerated to 10 minutes a week but I don't want to push beyond that especially at the beginning.

In that month I wrestled with my bedtime because the only way to get up early and not be tired is to sleep early as well. And the only way I could pull that off (regular bed time as opposed to sporadic) was to rethink my evening activities. And now having a reliable morning time enables me to establish better morning routines as well.

That seems to mesh well with the Kaizen notion that small changes have big impact.

In view of this, I aim to try using Kaizen as my operating system, in place of any list-based system. I still need to track external commitments but that's a relatively small thing.
April 24, 2019 at 15:31 | Registered CommenterAlan Baljeu
I think it's one of the better books out there. Not the best. (Today I think that's Russ Harris's The Happiness Trap.) It built on some of BJ Fogg's work.

I like the cheat sheet and trouble-shooting guide on the website. Looking back, every time I've failed to create a habit (or break one), the reason is on the guide.

Favourite Quote: Every action you take is a vote for the type of person you wish to become.

Yes, it's amazing how hard it is to do one tiny thing. One of the great things about starting small is we learn whether we are resisting the hard workout, or simply getting out of the chair.

I posted all my notes after binging on BJ Fogg's website and YouTube back in...wow, March 2018. http://markforster.squarespace.com/forum/post/2708113#post2709046

Even though I'm a fan of Tiny Habits, I think his work on the Motivation Wave and what are the most useful things to do during those rare times your motivation is high. (It's not exercising. It's making it easier to exercise when your motivation is low.) I also like his Behaviour Grid. The tools that help you do something new won't help you do something familiar, and the tools that help you do something a single time won't help you do it repeatedly.
April 25, 2019 at 2:11 | Registered CommenterCricket
The author has a very popular personal development blog. I really liked some of his articles.

But the book discusses nothing earth shattering, if you are an avid reader of similar books.
For a better presentation on the same topic, please try Mini Habits by Stephen Guise and also his blog,

https://stephenguise.com/blog/
April 25, 2019 at 7:39 | Unregistered CommenterEbb
Clarify, Cricket: Is it Atomic Habits or Tiny Habits that you call one of the better books?

Same to Ebb: which are you downplaying?
April 25, 2019 at 12:25 | Registered CommenterAlan Baljeu
All this talk about "mini habits", "tiny habits", and "atomic habits" made me consider creating my own brand of "nano habits", but of course that is already a thing as well.
April 25, 2019 at 13:16 | Unregistered CommenterAndreas Maurer
Quantum habits!

Quabbits!!
April 25, 2019 at 13:52 | Unregistered CommenterMike Brown
Mike Brown:

https://www.amazon.com/HABITS-Mini-Habits-Success-Self-Improvement-Happiness-ebook/dp/B00YHWZL4C
April 25, 2019 at 13:58 | Unregistered CommenterAndreas Maurer
Andreas:

The real world has such a disappointing way of taking the fun out of a stupid joke.
April 25, 2019 at 18:38 | Unregistered CommenterMike Brown
Atomic Habits. It goes into more detail. It's still a fast read, unless you take notes. Lots of good material. Fogg's book is tiny.

I've added Guise's blog to Feedly.

I can't find and active blog for BJ Fogg. Help?
April 25, 2019 at 21:38 | Registered CommenterCricket
Now I want to visit an abbey and learn about Abbot Habits. And when I return I can also explain their dressage!
April 25, 2019 at 21:59 | Registered CommenterAlan Baljeu
@Alan
I was downplaying Atomic Habits. The reason I endorsed Stephen Guise's books and blog was because, he writes a lot about resistance and procrastination.

Using some of his techniques in conjunction with Mark's Timed Bursts and AF1, I have managed to get some work done on my goals daily since the last few months.
April 26, 2019 at 3:02 | Unregistered CommenterEbb
Cricket:

I couldn't find a blog by him. The closest is his site http://bjfogg.org/ where he collects thing he does, versus http://bjfogg.com, which is more aimed at selling himself. But it's not really a blog you can throw into your feed reader, either. Maybe I missed something.
April 26, 2019 at 5:05 | Unregistered CommenterAndreas Maurer
He had a blog at http://bjfogg.typepad.com/ but deleted all the posts. They can still be read on archive.org: http://web.archive.org/web/20071011180422/https://bjfogg.typepad.com/
April 26, 2019 at 10:14 | Unregistered CommenterAndreas Maurer
The posts on Archive.org are all about an online voice chat program. I thought it was hacked, but one post begins, "This news doesn't relate so much to [redacted by Cricket], but I want to let people know that my book, Persuasive Technology [yes, this is his book] has just shipped in Japanese."
April 26, 2019 at 20:30 | Registered CommenterCricket
Yes, he probably didn't consider those posts worth preserving for that reason.

I guess if you want to read about his current stuff, you have to subscribe to his newsletter. But I have become very wary of newsletters.
April 27, 2019 at 8:06 | Unregistered CommenterAndreas Maurer
@Andreas

I was an avid subscriber to many newletters too. But I changed my opinion on them after I read this article -

https://www.nateliason.com/blog/infomania
April 28, 2019 at 4:05 | Unregistered CommenterEbb
Ebb, that article highlights a problem I have, but it backfired. The "You Might Also Like" bit includes "How to Set, Track, and Reach Your Goals Using Airtable." Playing with that sort of thing is today's lazy-day plan, and I just finished deciding Airtable was the better bet.
April 28, 2019 at 21:06 | Registered CommenterCricket
Could you elaborate on how it backfired?

As far as infomania is concerned, I conquered it, the same way I cut back on junk food i.e by restricting access to the temptation.

I used a program named Cold Turkey to block all but a few essential work and study related websites for around 3 weeks after which I got used to not checking and mindlessly surfing.
April 29, 2019 at 4:35 | Unregistered CommenterEbb
Backfire: On surface the article says reduce social media. But reading it lead Cricket to yet another article to read, followed by a lot of fakework playing with a new app.
April 29, 2019 at 13:16 | Registered CommenterAlan Baljeu
I am reading Stephen Guise's, Mini Habits for Weight Loss. Should work well with any of Mark's systems. He also talks about using dice to randomize selection of habits.
April 29, 2019 at 18:26 | Unregistered CommenterErin
Ebb, Alan has it right. (In other news, I think I've got goal tracking working on Airtable well enough for now. The current sprint for my goal group ends May 21, so I'll want different reports then.)
April 29, 2019 at 22:37 | Registered CommenterCricket
@Alan

I understand now. I guess then environmental constraints are the way to go. The most appropriate solution in this situation would be a way to restrict access to the particular distraction i.e blogs, books and forums as this one, when working.

After the day's work is done, maybe then ruminate on blog posts and books and plan to implement what you have learned the next day maybe?

Though, learning about new 'tips and hacks' has diminishing returns. Once you have the basic systems and habits established and are putting in the hours consistently, any further gains are miniscule and harder to come by.

It is up to the individual to decide if the juice is actually worth the squeeze.
April 30, 2019 at 5:23 | Unregistered CommenterEbb
As for me, the book is quite good. Surely worth reading.
I got the kindle version https://e-book.business/atomic-habits/ - though, personally, I would prefer less inspirational and general content but more details. However that's a common style now.
July 20, 2021 at 12:28 | Unregistered CommenterMarine Winterstein
I have read the Atomic Habits book several months ago. I could get through the book easy enough. It was an easy enough read. The Bogg book on Tiny Habits - I took that book out from the library. I skimmed through it, but found it really difficult to read. I have read other books like this, on habit formation, time management, productivity, GTD. They not only require intellectual understanding of the process, but the actual doing of the process to be effective. This is unlike other books where the intellectual awareness is what is sought.
Necessity is a great motivator. Love is a great motivator. A teacher, coach, therapist, support group can be great motivators However, reading a book and then trying to apply a multi-step process to your life might lack these things. Perhaps, they do describe the actual process of habit formation. But, was the habit formation developed by using a technique or a by-product of something else? Bogg probably has spent years thinking about habits and talking about it, and applying it. We are amateurs compared to him. It would be like a tennis player writing a book on how to play tennis for someone who hasn't played, or played without thinking of what he is doing. The analysis of habit formation, and reducing it to multi-step technique requires some distancing from the psyche.
I am most helped by reading these books if I take one, two, or three things and do them. Habit formation maybe is simple enough. I have rarely been successful applying a whole program from reading a book alone.
July 21, 2021 at 21:01 | Unregistered CommenterMark H.
I was at the library and found the large print edition of "Tiny Habits" and borrowed it, in case I misjudged it. Perhaps if I pick one habit and read the book with that in mind it would be useful.
July 22, 2021 at 2:17 | Unregistered CommenterMark H.
Mark H:

A nice little mental habit I picked from a writer named JD Meier was to do this for whatever I was reading, be it a blog post or article or book, was to write out 3 takeaways and 3 action steps.

This can help you summarize what you've read in your own words, which aids retention, but also helps you think of how to apply them. So instead of trying to carry out a full program, you take small steps to get yourself started.

I don't do this 3x3 as much these days, but if I come across something I want to keep in my evernote pile, then I'll add 3 takeaways/3 action steps to the top of the note. It's a good exercise.
July 22, 2021 at 15:34 | Unregistered CommenterMike Brown
Mike Brown,

Thanks. That's good advice.
July 22, 2021 at 17:28 | Unregistered CommenterMark H.
Alan,
There's definitely nothing wrong with the method you're describing.
I would add that the point of methods that go this slow is that if you do them for a while, like a few weeks or a few months, you'll have made considerable progress, then a method should become clear to go faster.
It's best not to resist this stage because it's kinda part of the point. :)
I don't know about you but it took me a while to realize that.
Like, when my leg just totally stopped working, I used the electric scooter. At first, I was going at an incredibly slow pace with plenty of thinking and stopping to figure out what to do, and within a 2 or 3 weeks of just using it at the grocery store, I was speeding around the place.
Of course, my leg works perfectly fine now. :)
But if I ever wanted to use one, I could.
I've never read Atomic Habits. I can't vouch for every technique but the method you're talking about totally could work. :) That's basically the hallmark standard for improving at a skill or something.
For this thing not to work, there'd have to be some nefarious person trying to make it not work. This just wouldn't happen in a normal scenario since the technique is so clear and easy.
Happy trails! :)
-Loe
October 19, 2021 at 14:48 | Unregistered CommenterLoida Pena
Does anyone know this is true?
"The human body has about eleven million sensory receptors. Approximately ten million of those are dedicated to sight." (Atomic Habits, chapter 6)

The original source where the above information is from says:
"Consider that at any given moment, our five senses are taking in more than 11,000,000 pieces of information. Scientists have determined this number by counting the receptor cells each sense organ has and the nerves that go from these cells to the brain. Our eyes alone receive and send over 10,000,000 signals to our brains each second." ('Strangers to Ourselves: Discovering the Adaptive Unconscious' van Timothy D. Wilson, p.24.)

Isn't it true that receptors and signals per seconds are 2 different things? So the author of Atomic Habit is interpreting this wrong?

What do you guys think?
December 17, 2022 at 14:33 | Unregistered CommenterSpain
For me at least Atomic Habits is really good. In what it reminded me of 7 Lessons in Leadership, there was also a section on habits. But when we talk about James Clear was able to write in the book what he does not manage to present as cool in public speeches.

Has anyone tried to compare?
April 11, 2023 at 10:26 | Registered CommenterHanna Jordan