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Discussion Forum > Serial No-List - Working the notebook in reverse order

I started a new paper notebook recently, and decided to try something new I've been thinking about.

I started my new No-List pages at the end of the notebook, instead of at the beginning.

Thus, as the pages begin to accumulate, the flow feels a little more natural.

Here is how it works. Let's say I've been working for a week, maybe one or two pages are fully completed and deleted, but there are several others still unfinished.

I start the new day by finding the page I had started yesterday. I turn to a new page to the left and date the new two-page spread with today's date. That is my no-list for today. I start listing my tasks for the day, whatever is on my mind. I circulate through this two-page spread over and over again till nothing stands out.

And then, I just move forward to the next page, then the next, and on to the end of the book, pausing to take action on anything that stands out and then cross those items off, and re-enter them on today's page if they are unfinished. Once I reach the end of the book, I just cycle back to today's page.

In other words, it's standard Serial No-List rules, but it gives you a sense of forward motion, instead of flipping backwards through old pages. Somehow this is faster and easier. I expected that. It's just physically easier to flip the pages forward. This reduces the friction of the system a little, and makes it easier to work with.

But I was surprised at one additional effect. For some reason, reversing the direction like this also gives less of a sense of "being behind". Somehow, flipping backwards through the old pages always made me feel that I was getting behind, especially as I kept flipping, and flipping, and flipping! It was never a really strong effect, and didn't really bother me, but it was present nonetheless. But now it just doesn't feel like that at all. It just feels totally fine to let these tasks sit there. It doesn't feel like I am behind. It just feels that these tasks aren't ready to do, and it's totally OK to let them sit there. I am not sure why there is this change in feeling, but there is.

The net result is that it has a feeling very close to Autofocus -- I mean, the good part of Autofocus, the feeling of being in "the zone", the feeling of flow, but without the feeling of artificial pressure that could arise sometimes from the dismissal process. This deep feeling of flow and engagement is a really nice surprise benefit. I really like it. The original way of doing Serial No-List already had some of this, as I have written elsewhere, but this takes it much closer.

In addition, as an aside, I started using the front of the notebook for general note-taking. This makes it easier to make sense of my notes. It's nice having them in the same notebook as my tasks, but more orderly having them separated like that.
June 27, 2019 at 6:27 | Registered CommenterSeraphim
Seraphim:

Interesting that you used the words "feel/feels/feeling" twelve times in this post.

In your first draft, which I got a copy of, you only used it six times. Even then it struck me as being significant.

What would be the effect if it were used with other systems, i.e. if I were to write my "Simple Scanning" list starting at the back page of my notebook? Or AF1? Would that alter my feelings about those systems? And even if it did, how much practical difference would the new feelings make?
June 27, 2019 at 14:36 | Registered CommenterMark Forster
I've decided to experiment with No Dismissal AF1 "done backwards" as you describe.

I am expecting great things!
June 27, 2019 at 15:30 | Registered CommenterMark Forster
I'm guessing if you did Simple Scanning or No-Dismissal AF1 backwards, it would have either a negligible impact, or a slightly negative impact. Flipping pages backwards is a little slower than flipping pages forwards, so it would go slightly slower, so the flow would feel slightly worse, and this could make the standing out feel slightly worse. I've never liked the systems that had me flipping pages backwards (like AF2). Maybe some people don't care about stuff like that.

You seem to be objecting to the idea that small changes to the mechanics of the system can have an outsized impact on the flow of the system and its intuitive feel. This can be important for how "standing out" works. I first learned this idea from you, so I am not really sure what the objection is. But maybe I am misunderstanding something.
June 27, 2019 at 19:36 | Registered CommenterSeraphim
Seraphim:

I'm not objecting to anything. As I said, I am interested in whether the effect you describe would work with other systems as well as Serial No-List.

I'm not flipping the pages backwards. I'm doing it exactly as I understood you to mean, except that I'm sticking to the single-page format. So I've started my AF1 pages at the end of the notebook instead of at the beginning. But I'm working in the normal direction through the pages.

The effect of this is that, instead of working from the beginning of the list forwards as in Normal AF1, I am working from the end of the list backwards. This is exactly what you are doing with your system - unless I've totally misunderstood you, but I don't think I have.

I only started doing it this way this afternoon,so it's too early yet to say what the effect is. All I can say is that so far it seems fine. One thing I have noted is that it gets rid of the phenomenon of "chasing the end of the list". Whether this is a good thing or a bad thing, it's too early to say.
June 27, 2019 at 23:48 | Registered CommenterMark Forster
Ah, I'm sorry, somehow I completely misunderstood your first post. Now I think I understand. And I think it helps me understand why this is having the effect it does.

Yes, I can see how this can help with Simple Scanning or No-Dismissal AF1, and it would address one of the problems I've had with those systems.

First I'll describe the problem that I had. With both of these systems -- Simple Scanning and AF1 -- the most active page is the current page -- the one that is not filled yet -- the one where you are adding new tasks. This is where we tend to spend the most time. I think most of us who have used these systems would agree with that.

So I am cycling through that page, working on whatever stands out, getting lots of momentum, but then, for whatever reason, nothing stands out. And so, since this is the last active page in my notebook, I then move all the way back to the first page in the notebook, and start working from there. But this page is the oldest, least-active page in the notebook. It is always something of a mental shift. That's the problem. It seems rather disruptive. I have to work through all these older tasks (and pages) to get back to the current ones.

However, if I reverse the order of the pages, it will work much differently. Instead of moving from the last, most-active page straight to the oldest, least-active page, I will move to the second-newest page. And from there to the third newest page.

So the tasks will be much more relevant to what I have just been working on, more fresh. The transition to these tasks will be less jarring.

That's exactly what happens when I am working with Serial No-List, and I think if you make this change to Simple Scanning or No-Dismissal AF1, it brings them very close to Serial No-List. In fact, No-Dismissal AF1 is almost indistinguishable.

The only differences are
(1) whether you repeatedly scan through each page till nothing stands out, or just scan each page once per visit, and
(2) the daily start-up procedure -- do you start where you left off (Simple Scanning), or do you start with a fresh page, writing down whatever is fresh on your mind (Serial No-List)

So this seems to tie all these systems together at some fundamental level. Very interesting indeed!
June 28, 2019 at 2:52 | Registered CommenterSeraphim
Hm, yes, chasing the end of the list... It seems this reverse method has you taking a break from your current momentum when you fill up the current active page with new tasks, and go on an excursion to visit all the older pages before picking up with your momentum again. I am not sure if that would be a "feature" or a "bug". I could see how it could go both ways.

"Feature" - For those like me who can get absorbed in a single tasks for hours on end, if the system prompts me to pause from my momentum from time to time, I suppose this could be considered a feature. I could see how it could help me to look up and see what else is going on in the world, and what other things I may be neglecting that also need some attention. And then, having taken a break, I can come back to my main work with renewed attention and focus.

"Bug" - It could be a distraction and an annoyance if I really want to keep going with the momentum that I've built up on the current active tasks. But I suppose I could take a command decision to quickly scan the first page or two for anything urgent I might be neglecting but then skip any older pages and get back to my momentum.
June 28, 2019 at 3:02 | Registered CommenterSeraphim
If you reverse AF1 so you start with the newest page and then do progressively older, I expect it would be preferable to cycle that last partial page rather than just skim it, to make up for the lack of "chasing".
June 28, 2019 at 4:15 | Registered CommenterAlan Baljeu
I started doing this in all my notebooks a month or two ago. ("All my notebooks..." I've since consolidated back into one).

I had been writing my shopping list from back to front with my task list from front to back, and I had noticed that it was much easier to refer to older pages in the back-to-front format. You just peel up the top page, and the next recent is right under it, instead of reaching around to the notebook's underside and scrabbling for the bottom page.

Thinking I would be happier with the oft-used task list in the easier format, I swapped the two sections, downgrading the shopping list to the conventional, more difficult format, since after all, there is only one back to a notebook. This really annoyed me on my next shopping trip, as I was even less inclined to fumble around for the under-page while pushing a cart than I had been while sitting at my desk.

But finally I realized that I could write both sections in back-to-front style, by flipping the book over. Now my task list starts at the front of the notebook using the backs of the pages, and my shopping list starts at the back using the fronts of the pages. Both now have this wonderful feature of lifting up the page, and the next recent page is right there! It is all double backward and strange-looking, but a couple of well-placed sticky tabs have made it really easy to use.
June 28, 2019 at 5:59 | Registered CommenterBernie
Seraphim:

On the whole I think that not chasing the end of the list is going to prove to be a feature rather than a bug but I haven't as yet had a chance to test it out properly.

Off to a good start this morning, but I'm still on the page I stopped on last night so haven't felt the "backwards effect" yet today. One reason for this is I'm using a bigger notebook than usual with 37 lines to the page. The effect of different page sizes might be a worthy subject of investigation at some stage!
June 28, 2019 at 8:49 | Registered CommenterMark Forster
I'm worried that ancient lines never get looked at, but it's easy enough to add a recurring task to review old pages with active tasks. Nothing new. Any system that keeps pressure on one end of the list will have lighter pressure on the other end.

The physical movements sound awkward. When I copy to the current page, my right hand stays on the right side of the pages being flipped, and my left deals with the old pages. Another case of the majority not being aware of how much is designed around them.
July 1, 2019 at 14:45 | Registered CommenterCricket
Seraphim:

Having started off with high hopes, I found that having AF1 at the end of the list didn't seem to make much difference to me, and also that not being able to chase the end of the list proved to be an irritant rather than a help - as you suspected.

None of which invalidates its use with Serial No-List of course.
July 1, 2019 at 15:03 | Registered CommenterMark Forster
Mark --

Sorry to hear that. I guess the interruption doesn't happen with Serial No-List because I start a new page every day automatically, and it just picks up automatically with whatever is top-of-mind by definition. So there isn't ever that disruption of momentum.

So this reversal of direction is still working pretty well for me with Serial No-List, but not quite as "magical" as it first felt. Still a pretty good flow, though, and still very close to the original feeling of engagement and flow of AF1 when I have a good uninterrupted block of time to work.
July 10, 2019 at 1:36 | Registered CommenterSeraphim
Cricket --

<< I'm worried that ancient lines never get looked at, but it's easy enough to add a recurring task to review old pages with active tasks. Nothing new. Any system that keeps pressure on one end of the list will have lighter pressure on the other end. >>

In practice, the old lines get looked at several times a day -- at least on most days -- but just aren't really very interesting and don't stand out. They stay in the back of my mind till one day I either go cross out a bunch of stuff en masse, or some of those old lingering things finally cry out "Choose me! Choose me!"

It works like this. I cycle through the current page (today's page) over and over again about 80-90% of the time. Then I take a break and go look at the older pages. Usually I stop pretty quickly on the first or second page and do a few things there, then quickly scan through the older pages, or maybe flip through the older pages is more accurate. Then back to today's page for another good chunk of time. Then another break to the older pages. The pattern repeats.

The newest pages is where all the active, current stuff lives.

The slightly older pages tend to gather out-of-context kinds of tasks -- waiting for the right context to present itself. Maybe I am waiting for someone to get back from vacation and haven't bothered to move the task to Outlook reminders quite yet. Maybe there are a few secondary-project-related things, and that project is "on-hold" for some reason, and I am waiting for it to become "un-blocked" -- and then it will all shake loose.

And then the oldest pages is where the interesting ideas have gone to percolate -- the someday/maybes; "not urgent and (maybe) not important" but still interesting and maybe valuable in some way. Stuff I'd like to explore when I have a moment. Maybe. Maybe not. It's the wait-and-see kind of stuff and I don't have a better place to park it. If it were a piece of paper maybe I'd put it in a tickler file. But it's just a few words and typing it up into an Outlook reminder seems to dignify it with too much attention. So it just sits there for a little longer till I either delete it or it finally emerges into something greater.

<< The physical movements sound awkward. When I copy to the current page, my right hand stays on the right side of the pages being flipped, and my left deals with the old pages. Another case of the majority not being aware of how much is designed around them. >>

Thanks for offering that perspective. It occurs to me that left-handed people might want to do the opposite of what I am doing. I.e., for left-handed people, enter tasks on the first spread in the notebook, then the second spread, then the third spread, etc. And if you want to use the same notebook for general note-taking, then start that somewhere later in the notebook.
July 10, 2019 at 1:50 | Registered CommenterSeraphim