Discussion Forum > Put it away, right away
Cameron:
"Put it away, right away" is an excellent rule to have whatever time management method you are using (or none), and using it most certainly doesn't invalidate Simple Scanning if that's working ok otherwise.
However if you want to use Simple Scanning for everything including Tidy, then there is something you are doing wrong.
The way you are using it at the moment is useless for anything that you need to do in less than 3-4 days. That doesn't just apply to Tidy, it also applies to anything that requires a fast response.
You need to radically change the speed at which you are getting round the list. You should be aiming at getting right round the list at least three times a day. That's at least nine times faster than you are moving at the moment.
How do you do that?
a. Pick less items per pass AND
b. Spend less time on each item you select
In other words increase both LITTLE and OFTEN.
Remember, your intuition is not some infallible voice from above. It does what you tell it to do. Tell your intuition to move faster and it will.
"Put it away, right away" is an excellent rule to have whatever time management method you are using (or none), and using it most certainly doesn't invalidate Simple Scanning if that's working ok otherwise.
However if you want to use Simple Scanning for everything including Tidy, then there is something you are doing wrong.
The way you are using it at the moment is useless for anything that you need to do in less than 3-4 days. That doesn't just apply to Tidy, it also applies to anything that requires a fast response.
You need to radically change the speed at which you are getting round the list. You should be aiming at getting right round the list at least three times a day. That's at least nine times faster than you are moving at the moment.
How do you do that?
a. Pick less items per pass AND
b. Spend less time on each item you select
In other words increase both LITTLE and OFTEN.
Remember, your intuition is not some infallible voice from above. It does what you tell it to do. Tell your intuition to move faster and it will.
January 28, 2020 at 11:38 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
The thought I've always used where you are using, "Put it away, right away," is "Putting it away is part of the task." You're not adding another task in the middle of your list, you're completing the task.
January 28, 2020 at 14:42 |
MotherWit
MotherWit
January 28, 2020 at 16:26 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
A phrase I picked up from somewhere: "Never leave a room empty-handed." There's usually something that can be moved to its proper place, thrown away, put on a shelf, etc. Tidying is more a habit or routine for me (ideally!) than a task on my list.
Motherwit's post reminds me of an anecdote I heard from somewhere: a mother with a messy house asked a neat friend how she could be more tidy. The friend looked uncomfortably at the kitchen sink where tea cups were sitting unwashed. She said, "You're not done with your tea till the cup is washed and put away." That was the light bulb moment for the anecdote teller; tidiness is about the whole life cycle of the task, as it were, not just its component bits.
Motherwit's post reminds me of an anecdote I heard from somewhere: a mother with a messy house asked a neat friend how she could be more tidy. The friend looked uncomfortably at the kitchen sink where tea cups were sitting unwashed. She said, "You're not done with your tea till the cup is washed and put away." That was the light bulb moment for the anecdote teller; tidiness is about the whole life cycle of the task, as it were, not just its component bits.
January 28, 2020 at 21:11 |
Mike Brown
Mike Brown
The one minute rule. I like it. Feels so much easier than the two-minute rule in GTD. Thanks for the link to Gretchen's quote.
Great thoughts here. Thank you all. I like the idea of putting it away as part of the finishing the task. I'll give this a try.
Mark, I still kind of struggle getting through my list more than once a day. I'm talking about my personal notebook, which I really can only get to in the evening between the hours of 7:30 to 9:00 pm at best. I don't need my notebook to get ready in the morning, then I have another notebook at work, then I eat dinner with family and have a nighttime routine with my toddler and baby. Then my wife and I read together. These are pretty set.
I have roughly 100 items on my list. Which means I can only pick about 3-4 of them per pass if I work on each for 8-10 minutes (some shorter, some longer). As much I'd like to keep things to a couple of minutes, it seems once I get into it, I spend at the very least 5 minutes on something before it hits a decent stopping point.
Then there are those things that take all night to do. For example, I spent the last week and a half working on a project for a service organization that I had to get done. It sapped up just about 75% of my free time. These are some of the challenges I face.
Great thoughts here. Thank you all. I like the idea of putting it away as part of the finishing the task. I'll give this a try.
Mark, I still kind of struggle getting through my list more than once a day. I'm talking about my personal notebook, which I really can only get to in the evening between the hours of 7:30 to 9:00 pm at best. I don't need my notebook to get ready in the morning, then I have another notebook at work, then I eat dinner with family and have a nighttime routine with my toddler and baby. Then my wife and I read together. These are pretty set.
I have roughly 100 items on my list. Which means I can only pick about 3-4 of them per pass if I work on each for 8-10 minutes (some shorter, some longer). As much I'd like to keep things to a couple of minutes, it seems once I get into it, I spend at the very least 5 minutes on something before it hits a decent stopping point.
Then there are those things that take all night to do. For example, I spent the last week and a half working on a project for a service organization that I had to get done. It sapped up just about 75% of my free time. These are some of the challenges I face.
January 29, 2020 at 3:05 |
Cameron
Cameron
Cameron:
Yes, I sympathise – when I was MrBacklog I found that more than about 100 tasks became difficult to manage and easy to lose track. Overwhelm creeps in as well.
A very simple solution I found that worked well for me was to go through my entire task list and move tasks to folders of “do this week”, “do next week” and “do next month”, etc.
i.e. a very simple deferral system so I could focus on doing things at the right time.
Surprising actually how much can be easily deferred in my case. Obviously if all your tasks end up being in the do this week folder then you are a bit stuffed! But at least you know where you are.
All my tasks are in email, so simple scanning does not work too well for that as the email headings are not particularly clear of what to do or the urgency. 100+ emails is impossible to scan effectively hence I needed a workaround so I only ever needed to scan an email once.
I suppose this could work well enough with a paper list. E.g. on “do next week” list when you get to Monday next week simply rename it do this week and work through it and defer again if necessary.
Yes, I sympathise – when I was MrBacklog I found that more than about 100 tasks became difficult to manage and easy to lose track. Overwhelm creeps in as well.
A very simple solution I found that worked well for me was to go through my entire task list and move tasks to folders of “do this week”, “do next week” and “do next month”, etc.
i.e. a very simple deferral system so I could focus on doing things at the right time.
Surprising actually how much can be easily deferred in my case. Obviously if all your tasks end up being in the do this week folder then you are a bit stuffed! But at least you know where you are.
All my tasks are in email, so simple scanning does not work too well for that as the email headings are not particularly clear of what to do or the urgency. 100+ emails is impossible to scan effectively hence I needed a workaround so I only ever needed to scan an email once.
I suppose this could work well enough with a paper list. E.g. on “do next week” list when you get to Monday next week simply rename it do this week and work through it and defer again if necessary.
January 29, 2020 at 9:28 |
MrDone
MrDone
MrDone, thanks for responding. Yes, I've often considered returning to some form of a backlog. It does provide the benefit of focus on the few important tasks now.
The downside I found with a backlog/someday/maybe list (at least with GTD) is that I rarely moved items from the someday-maybe into my active list. I rarely reviewed the list, and it became an elephant graveyard for my tasks and ideas.
In one sense, I suppose I view my long list notebook as one big someday-maybe, and an item gets temporarily elevated to the status of active when I dot it. Then when I rewrite at the end, it demoted back to someday-maybe. It helps keep things in perspective that I don't have to do anything on my list as its all someday-maybe.
I'm rereading a post from a few weeks ago where Mark gave some good feedback to my question already, (in addition to the above advice in this thread):
"What you should be doing is using the list to evaluate what you are in fact going to do during your precious hour. This is most easily accomplished by reading quickly through the list to start off with (as I've always recommended for all lists) and then moving at a good speed through it, using plenty of "little and often". Think of it in physical terms, e.g. as if you were deciding which exercises to do in a gym and then circulating through them multiple times."
I'm going to experiment with "more little" and "more often" this week and just see what happens. (More little? Is that an oxymoron? :)
I also am going to be more diligent at reading through the list before starting. I often forget this step.
The downside I found with a backlog/someday/maybe list (at least with GTD) is that I rarely moved items from the someday-maybe into my active list. I rarely reviewed the list, and it became an elephant graveyard for my tasks and ideas.
In one sense, I suppose I view my long list notebook as one big someday-maybe, and an item gets temporarily elevated to the status of active when I dot it. Then when I rewrite at the end, it demoted back to someday-maybe. It helps keep things in perspective that I don't have to do anything on my list as its all someday-maybe.
I'm rereading a post from a few weeks ago where Mark gave some good feedback to my question already, (in addition to the above advice in this thread):
"What you should be doing is using the list to evaluate what you are in fact going to do during your precious hour. This is most easily accomplished by reading quickly through the list to start off with (as I've always recommended for all lists) and then moving at a good speed through it, using plenty of "little and often". Think of it in physical terms, e.g. as if you were deciding which exercises to do in a gym and then circulating through them multiple times."
I'm going to experiment with "more little" and "more often" this week and just see what happens. (More little? Is that an oxymoron? :)
I also am going to be more diligent at reading through the list before starting. I often forget this step.
January 29, 2020 at 19:03 |
Cameron
Cameron
My latest thinking is to declare, I am a person who keeps the kitchen neat. Neat is relative to my own thinking about neatness. Yesterday, I was a person with a messy kitchen. Today the kitchen is slightly less messy. From now on keeping the kitchen in a steadily improving state of neatness is an ongoing task. But task is the wrong word, because neatness shall be part of operating in the kitchen. I make a mess preparing a meal but I leave the kitchen neater before the meal is wrapped up.
The kitchen is a small part of the overall job of neatness but as of yet I am not a person who keeps the house neat. That's a future level of competency.
The kitchen is a small part of the overall job of neatness but as of yet I am not a person who keeps the house neat. That's a future level of competency.
January 29, 2020 at 19:09 |
Alan Baljeu
Alan Baljeu
Cameron:
<< I have roughly 100 items on my list. Which means I can only pick about 3-4 of them per pass if I work on each for 8-10 minutes (some shorter, some longer). As much I'd like to keep things to a couple of minutes, it seems once I get into it, I spend at the very least 5 minutes on something before it hits a decent stopping point. >>
You don't say how quickly these 100 items refill if you do them, or what the average length of time is per item to clear it. Without that information it's impossible to advise you on how to go about this.
However as far as tidying goes, I find it's best to split tidying down into specific tidying tasks. So I have "Tidy Desk", "Tidy Floor", "Tidy Bookshelf", etc. Each of these takes less than a minute, provided that I do them as often as they need doing.
Basically what I do in a case of major disarray is sort one area only, e.g. Sort Desk, and when it's sorted move on to the next sort, keeping the desk tidied rather than sorted.
So I have one Sort task at a time, and several Tidy tasks.
<< I have roughly 100 items on my list. Which means I can only pick about 3-4 of them per pass if I work on each for 8-10 minutes (some shorter, some longer). As much I'd like to keep things to a couple of minutes, it seems once I get into it, I spend at the very least 5 minutes on something before it hits a decent stopping point. >>
You don't say how quickly these 100 items refill if you do them, or what the average length of time is per item to clear it. Without that information it's impossible to advise you on how to go about this.
However as far as tidying goes, I find it's best to split tidying down into specific tidying tasks. So I have "Tidy Desk", "Tidy Floor", "Tidy Bookshelf", etc. Each of these takes less than a minute, provided that I do them as often as they need doing.
Basically what I do in a case of major disarray is sort one area only, e.g. Sort Desk, and when it's sorted move on to the next sort, keeping the desk tidied rather than sorted.
So I have one Sort task at a time, and several Tidy tasks.
January 29, 2020 at 19:39 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
>I am not a person who keeps the house neat
That sounds worse than i meant it. I meant to say, I am not yet committed to preventing any other part of the house from ever becoming more messy than things are at present.
But Neat is relative. The house is relatively neat (relative to what it could be), and relatively messy (relative to what I hope eventually to be my norm).
That sounds worse than i meant it. I meant to say, I am not yet committed to preventing any other part of the house from ever becoming more messy than things are at present.
But Neat is relative. The house is relatively neat (relative to what it could be), and relatively messy (relative to what I hope eventually to be my norm).
January 29, 2020 at 22:23 |
Alan Baljeu
Alan Baljeu
"You don't say how quickly these 100 items refill if you do them, or what the average length of time is per item to clear it. Without that information it's impossible to advise you on how to go about this."
I'm not sure myself how quickly I refill them either. I think I'm getting through things much faster though than GTD, because I'm not spending the time organizing my actions.
I think several of my actions could be combined (like organizing several areas of my home that are in disarray) and could breakout others (like emptying email inbox, physical inbox, etc.)
I'll give it a try and report back. Thank you.
I'm not sure myself how quickly I refill them either. I think I'm getting through things much faster though than GTD, because I'm not spending the time organizing my actions.
I think several of my actions could be combined (like organizing several areas of my home that are in disarray) and could breakout others (like emptying email inbox, physical inbox, etc.)
I'll give it a try and report back. Thank you.
January 30, 2020 at 3:38 |
Cameron
Cameron
Hi Cameron,
Being short on times in the evenings is difficult with a young family and short periods of time.
For a while now I've been focusing on tasks from yesterday and tasks from today. Circling round yesterday and today until no tasks stand out. I will then return to the beginning of my list, which I now consider a backlog or an inventory of tasks. I draw a box in the margin with the date next to it. The box for today and yesterday remains empty. All dates before that have the box shaded in. Another think I find helpful is to write the task on my list for today, even if it probably sits somewhere.earlier on the list. This just works better for me than scanning through the list to find a task that I know I already want to work on. I find it beneficial to have one notebook for all my tasks, great for reviewing items in my mind and for regular editing and deleting. Of course this depends if one is allowed to, or wants to, use one list for everything.
Being short on times in the evenings is difficult with a young family and short periods of time.
For a while now I've been focusing on tasks from yesterday and tasks from today. Circling round yesterday and today until no tasks stand out. I will then return to the beginning of my list, which I now consider a backlog or an inventory of tasks. I draw a box in the margin with the date next to it. The box for today and yesterday remains empty. All dates before that have the box shaded in. Another think I find helpful is to write the task on my list for today, even if it probably sits somewhere.earlier on the list. This just works better for me than scanning through the list to find a task that I know I already want to work on. I find it beneficial to have one notebook for all my tasks, great for reviewing items in my mind and for regular editing and deleting. Of course this depends if one is allowed to, or wants to, use one list for everything.
January 30, 2020 at 12:18 |
Leon
Leon
Leon:
<< Being short on times in the evenings is difficult with a young family and short periods of time. >>
Another possible way of dealing with this:
http://markforster.squarespace.com/blog/2017/10/5/thoughts-on-the-long-list-the-panic-list.html
<< Being short on times in the evenings is difficult with a young family and short periods of time. >>
Another possible way of dealing with this:
http://markforster.squarespace.com/blog/2017/10/5/thoughts-on-the-long-list-the-panic-list.html
January 30, 2020 at 13:00 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
However, I am only able to make it through my personal list about once every two to four days on average these days. So, tidying only gets hit a few times every three days on average.
Lately I've tried a simple rule called "put it away, right away". As soon as I finish with a thing, I put it away, now (or as soon as is reasonably possible). My area is significantly cleaner as a result. The resistance to doing it is low because putting something away only takes one minute at longest. Plus, the motivation gained by small victories propels me to keep going. It influences all of my work also. I put computer emails right away into their folders. I put small bits of information right away in their respective spreadsheets. I seems to eliminate about 1/3 of the individual tasks that would eventually make their way into my notebook.
I'm trying to adhere to Simple Scanning and trust that the system will eventually help me to be superbly tidied-up, but it just isn't working for me yet. The simple rule of "put it away right away" has been so much more effective. This makes me trust Simple Scanning a little less. Thoughts? Maybe the answer is, keep using the rule "put it away right away", and also keep using simple scanning without "tidy" written on the list.