Discussion Forum > Time Management for Mortals - Burkeman
A strange coincidence: this week, I stumbled on the following system Mark posted in 2008. I was not aware of it previously; it’s not included in the TM systems page. One of those simple but brilliant ideas that deserves rescue from oblivion. It seems to be a variation on DIT which also anticipates the open/closed list systems (AF4, Ultimate Time Management System, etc.).
I’m not familiar with Burkeman, but the quote posted above (“the simplest version… is to keep two to-do lists, one 'open' and one 'closed'.”) sounds like what Mark says here:
http://markforster.squarespace.com/blog/2008/11/17/the-simplest-time-management-method.html
I’m not familiar with Burkeman, but the quote posted above (“the simplest version… is to keep two to-do lists, one 'open' and one 'closed'.”) sounds like what Mark says here:
http://markforster.squarespace.com/blog/2008/11/17/the-simplest-time-management-method.html
August 8, 2021 at 15:20 |
Belacqua
avrum:
<< given Burkeman is in the UK (and clearly a productivity nerd), I can't help but think he borrowed some ideas from Forster. >>
He's reviewed several of my books and written several articles mentioning me, and I think we've been in correspondence once or twice. So it's quite likely he's used ideas of mine, though I haven't read that particular book yet. I have no objection - quite the reverse.
<< given Burkeman is in the UK (and clearly a productivity nerd), I can't help but think he borrowed some ideas from Forster. >>
He's reviewed several of my books and written several articles mentioning me, and I think we've been in correspondence once or twice. So it's quite likely he's used ideas of mine, though I haven't read that particular book yet. I have no objection - quite the reverse.
August 8, 2021 at 18:25 |
Mark Forster
Mark:
The book that I linked to will be published (in Canada) on August 10.
I'm not surprised to hear that he's aware of your work. The spirit of your work/ideas is all over his email course (to receive the email course, you need to provide proof of purchase of his book).
The book that I linked to will be published (in Canada) on August 10.
I'm not surprised to hear that he's aware of your work. The spirit of your work/ideas is all over his email course (to receive the email course, you need to provide proof of purchase of his book).
August 8, 2021 at 18:40 |
avrum
Avrum:
We have to wait until 26 August in UK.
Time is running out. I'm on Week 3,985 !
We have to wait until 26 August in UK.
Time is running out. I'm on Week 3,985 !
August 9, 2021 at 10:32 |
Mark Forster
Preordered too, thanks avrum!
August 9, 2021 at 14:53 |
Virix
Burkeman wrote the long-running Guardian column "This Column Will Change Your Life" [1] where he took an oblique look at self-help genre, fads, techniques, tips, etc. He scratched up some really great ideas there that I'd never heard of before [2], and also summarized authors' books and theories very well. He has a dry sense of humor, which made all the info go down easier.
He has written two books in the self-help genre already that I think are good, level-headed looks at the practitioners and the practices. I think once you peel away the layers, he finds that there are only a few very simple generalizable ideas that work for everyone -- but they're so simple no one believes they could work or (as in his next book, it appears) they appear so limiting as to seem demotivating.
I have linked to a couple of his articles in this forum over the years, and yes, he has cited Mark in his column and elsewhere [3]. I don't know if he haunts the forums here or not, but he is well aware of Mark's presence and influence. I've exchanged a few emails with him; nice guy.
Burkeman lives in Brooklyn now, I think.
[1]: http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/series/thiscolumnwillchangeyourlife
[2]: for example, http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2012/feb/24/two-things-to-know-oliver-burkeman
[3]: http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2015/nov/20/oliver-burkeman-time-to-ditch-to-do-list
He has written two books in the self-help genre already that I think are good, level-headed looks at the practitioners and the practices. I think once you peel away the layers, he finds that there are only a few very simple generalizable ideas that work for everyone -- but they're so simple no one believes they could work or (as in his next book, it appears) they appear so limiting as to seem demotivating.
I have linked to a couple of his articles in this forum over the years, and yes, he has cited Mark in his column and elsewhere [3]. I don't know if he haunts the forums here or not, but he is well aware of Mark's presence and influence. I've exchanged a few emails with him; nice guy.
Burkeman lives in Brooklyn now, I think.
[1]: http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/series/thiscolumnwillchangeyourlife
[2]: for example, http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2012/feb/24/two-things-to-know-oliver-burkeman
[3]: http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2015/nov/20/oliver-burkeman-time-to-ditch-to-do-list
August 9, 2021 at 16:19 |
Mike Brown
I was somewhat hesitant in buying the book, thinking it would be a rehash of this Ted talk of his about how to stop fighting time:
http://youtu.be/XtfCmhPr-J8
Although I did enjoy a lot of his articles so decided to push through. Appreciate the discussion here about his work. Still waiting for it to drop in Kindle (should be later today.)
http://youtu.be/XtfCmhPr-J8
Although I did enjoy a lot of his articles so decided to push through. Appreciate the discussion here about his work. Still waiting for it to drop in Kindle (should be later today.)
August 10, 2021 at 5:01 |
Richard1
Mike Brown:
Thanks for the links. Those have given me enough quotes to fill the "To Think About.." spot on this website for months to come!
Thanks for the links. Those have given me enough quotes to fill the "To Think About.." spot on this website for months to come!
August 10, 2021 at 10:38 |
Mark Forster
Only a few chapters in, but I find Oliver’s book slow and meandering. There’s some gems, but man, you need to wade through a lot to find them. General message so far: You have too much to do. Accept that, focus on the essentials, and… bliss, I guess?
August 16, 2021 at 19:51 |
avrum
He has a few videos on Youtube, one of which is on the book, and a website with articles that he has written. Also, there is a preview on Google books of the book. All of these I have sampled.
One can Google search his name and find them.
There were some good insights and tools.
That was a week ago, and I only remember a few things, perhaps not original, but they were well written and presented.
One can Google search his name and find them.
There were some good insights and tools.
That was a week ago, and I only remember a few things, perhaps not original, but they were well written and presented.
August 16, 2021 at 20:33 |
Mark H.
What I read of the book on Google books seemed to be developing slowly, and I wasn't motivated to get the book.
August 16, 2021 at 20:35 |
Mark H.
I've read the whole book, and the comments about it being meandering and slow seem ironic from that vantage point. Here's a quote from the book: "In a world geared for hurry, the capacity to resist the urge to hurry---to allow things to take the time they take--- is a way to gain purchase on the world, to do the work that counts, and to derive satisfaction from the doing itself." If you are looking for a book that will give you another time management system or a set of rules on how to manage your to do list to get more done in a shorter amount of time, then this book is probably not for you. If you read it all the way through, though, you may find significant insights into why you want another time management system or set of rules to help you get more done. Some of us, myself included, may be looking for ways to control a future which is in no way guaranteed, or strive toward a future self which can never materialize because we're never quite satisfied with the way things are right now. This post isn't intended as an attack on time management system junkies (I am one). I just encourage you to pick up the book and read it through before making any judgments. It could make for some spirited discussions on this forum.
August 17, 2021 at 0:36 |
JeffVC
JeffVC
<<I've read the whole book, and the comments about it being meandering and slow seem ironic from that vantage point. >>
Ironic or not, I returned the book. If you're looking for a book that provides a plethora of reasons and vignettes about why you are busy (and too anxious about it), you might find this a good read. I found it to be a slog.
As an aside, I've been using the same workflow system (and tools) for approximately 4 years now. I have no need to replace it.
<<I've read the whole book, and the comments about it being meandering and slow seem ironic from that vantage point. >>
Ironic or not, I returned the book. If you're looking for a book that provides a plethora of reasons and vignettes about why you are busy (and too anxious about it), you might find this a good read. I found it to be a slog.
As an aside, I've been using the same workflow system (and tools) for approximately 4 years now. I have no need to replace it.
August 17, 2021 at 12:47 |
avrum
Avrum, it seems I inadvertently hit a nerve. My post wasn't attacking you or your opinion of the book, but offering a different viewpoint to potential readers from someone who has actually read it. Oliver Burkeman's style isn't for everyone. I've read two of his books, and in each he layers concepts from various philosophical, economic, and religious disciplines, chapter by chapter, to a thoughtful conclusion. I also see a lot of humor in his writing. It doesn't feel like a slog to me, but tastes are varied and ours are clearly different.
BTW, kudos on sticking with the same workflow system for 4 years. With all of the new ideas from Mark and others presented on this forum in that time, your dedication is impressive.
BTW, kudos on sticking with the same workflow system for 4 years. With all of the new ideas from Mark and others presented on this forum in that time, your dedication is impressive.
August 17, 2021 at 19:52 |
JeffVC
JeffVC - nerve hit, good aim!
My response was a bit reactive, apologies. I appreciate your follow-up comment.
My response was a bit reactive, apologies. I appreciate your follow-up comment.
August 17, 2021 at 23:44 |
avrum
Like JeffVc, I read the book from cover to cover. The biggest takeaway for me is the concept that in our physical reality, we have limited time and limited control over it but from our mental point of view of time, we feel we should have almost unlimited control of our time and unlimited options. No wonder we seem less than satisfied or at ease with our accomplishments and experiences. The book was an eye opener and I highly recommend it.
August 19, 2021 at 20:43 |
George
I got the ebook and added the Audible narration so I could listen, read, or read along while I listen. It’s 6 hours long and I’m 2 hours in. What George mentioned has been repeated many times already, so I’m wondering if it’s ever going to move on for the other 4 hours or not. It does seem like the type of thing I need to hear but, to take a cue from the book itself: do I really want to spend my time reading it? Haha. I probably will but the table of contents isn’t giving me a lot of confidence.
August 23, 2021 at 4:01 |
Don R
For me, what I took away is that I need to be clear in myself that I'm not ever going to get all my todo's done, and accept that I can only do so much each day and focus on the few that I actually can do something about. And then not stress about it too much. To learn to accept that some things will take time (chapter about Patience) and no amount of time management is going to make it faster. (So basically like what George said.)
For anyone who has his priorities and goals clear and already has a good system in place, then I don't think this book will add to that. He did provide some concrete tips at the end (the one Avrum mentioned about closed and open list). Kind of reminded me of DIT.
For anyone who has his priorities and goals clear and already has a good system in place, then I don't think this book will add to that. He did provide some concrete tips at the end (the one Avrum mentioned about closed and open list). Kind of reminded me of DIT.
August 23, 2021 at 4:42 |
Richard1
@JeffVC: " why you want another time management system or set of rules to help you get more done. ...ways to control a future which is in no way guaranteed, or strive toward a future self which can never materialize because we're never quite satisfied with the way things are"
Good reminders. Humans might need to just be more humble and accepting of our limitations. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronos#/media/File:Pierre_Mignard_(1610-1695)_-_Time_Clipping_Cupid's_Wings_(1694).jpg)
Good reminders. Humans might need to just be more humble and accepting of our limitations. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronos#/media/File:Pierre_Mignard_(1610-1695)_-_Time_Clipping_Cupid's_Wings_(1694).jpg)
August 31, 2021 at 16:05 |
michael
I think what Burkeman appears to do well is to take a bunch of pre-existing productivity advice and anchor it inside of a single unified vision that justifies the how and why of using a given process or practice. The book includes a wide array of typical techniques and systems, but all examined in light of his overall philosophical framework. For those who just like to look for tricks and tools to put to use, there's little fundamentally novel in the book, and it will probably feel slow and redundant to them. However, if you are one of those who likes to have a distinct "why?" to much of your practice, or likes to try to create a congruent framework of use surrounding much of your tactical knowledge, then the book provides such an analysis and framework for a surprisingly broad number of tactical approaches, which could prove to be helpful to many people. Having a "why" for a given tool can sometimes increase the uptake, motivation, and consistency of use for that tool for some people.
September 2, 2021 at 1:53 |
Aaron Hsu
"At the level of daily to-dos, the simplest way to train your one-thing-at-a-time muscle is to define a bottleneck, through which all tasks must pass. And the simplest version of that is to keep two to-do lists, one 'open' and one 'closed'."
Anyway, I'm enjoying his witty take on all things productivity, etc.