Discussion Forum > Doing the emotional work
Aaron:
<< "Just sit with your problem, and let yourself do the internal emotional work that needs to be done." In Time Surfing, this is called making white sheep of your tasks, and building relationships with them, getting to know them, and so forth. >>
In fact this process is already built in to some of my systems.
For example, the simplest of all - which is so simple it can hardly be called a "system" - is AF2 (Reversed). The name is complicated but it's just a long list in which every scan starts from the beginning of the list.
The result is that the beginning of the list is very quickly denuded of all the easy tasks. In order to reach further easy tasks, you have to first scan the more difficult tasks. As the list builds up, the easy tasks get further and further away down the list. This means that you have to confront all the difficult tasks before you can reach an easy task. The result of continuingly having to confront a difficult task is that it eventually gets done. Basically this is the process of "building relationships... getting to know them".
For this to work, it's important that you don't just pass over the difficult tasks without looking at them. You need to look at each task enough to make the decision whether to do it or not.
So what it comes down to is the question "How may times do you have to confront a task before you actually do it?" In the case of a really difficult task, that might be a hundred times. That sounds a lot, but how many tasks in total do you do each day? if you do 25 tasks a day then in four days you will have scanned that really difficult task 100 times.
Another advantage with this method is that the difficult tasks quickly become isolated on the list (which is one of the reasons I don't recommend apps which make "done" tasks vanish). An isolated task attracts attention like a flashing beacon.
<< "Just sit with your problem, and let yourself do the internal emotional work that needs to be done." In Time Surfing, this is called making white sheep of your tasks, and building relationships with them, getting to know them, and so forth. >>
In fact this process is already built in to some of my systems.
For example, the simplest of all - which is so simple it can hardly be called a "system" - is AF2 (Reversed). The name is complicated but it's just a long list in which every scan starts from the beginning of the list.
The result is that the beginning of the list is very quickly denuded of all the easy tasks. In order to reach further easy tasks, you have to first scan the more difficult tasks. As the list builds up, the easy tasks get further and further away down the list. This means that you have to confront all the difficult tasks before you can reach an easy task. The result of continuingly having to confront a difficult task is that it eventually gets done. Basically this is the process of "building relationships... getting to know them".
For this to work, it's important that you don't just pass over the difficult tasks without looking at them. You need to look at each task enough to make the decision whether to do it or not.
So what it comes down to is the question "How may times do you have to confront a task before you actually do it?" In the case of a really difficult task, that might be a hundred times. That sounds a lot, but how many tasks in total do you do each day? if you do 25 tasks a day then in four days you will have scanned that really difficult task 100 times.
Another advantage with this method is that the difficult tasks quickly become isolated on the list (which is one of the reasons I don't recommend apps which make "done" tasks vanish). An isolated task attracts attention like a flashing beacon.
May 20, 2023 at 12:15 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
Yes, there is only one reason why we procrastinate, it is how we think about a given task.
To dissolve procrastination we have to take the time to change our thinking about that task.
Building an external mechanical system can be a way to facilitate that thinking, as Mark Forster describes in the prior comment. When David Allen refers to GTD as a "self coaching" process, IMO he is talking about that as well.
Building an external mechanical system can also change our thinking about that task immediately. For example, if we make that task a MIT for today it suddenly has become a challenger that decides wether today is a good day or not.
The internal reflection process described by Aaron Hsu in the thread opener is part of what self coaching is all about. And yes, coaching is a skillset that has to be learned. And no, most people on this planet are not trained coaches. However, I am sure that both Allen and Forster are both very capable coaches and know all that stuff.
When we procrastinate on a task it may be that we think that we weren't acknowledged on some level and therefore there is no complete internal agreement from our side to engage in that task. Thus we don't do it.
If we also have entered that task into our external mechanical system and there is an agreement that we would adhere to the rules of that system, we now have a conflict about that task going on. We don't want to do that task because lack of agreement, but we want to do that task because agreement with our system; if that makes some sense.
The external mechanical system confronts us with that conflict until it is resolved one way or another.
Regarding the terminology from the thread opener, I would count Perfectionism to the Emotional Avoidance group. What people call perfectionism is just fear of confrontation with one's own reality and thus an emotional issue.
The realm of Executive Dysfunction is adressed in GTD explicitly with Next Action thinking and in most of Mark Forster's system implicitly with "work on that task as long as you see fit and re-enter."
Executive Dysfunction should be overcome by developing new solutions, in most work environments this is not possible due to a dysfunctional leadership.
To dissolve procrastination we have to take the time to change our thinking about that task.
Building an external mechanical system can be a way to facilitate that thinking, as Mark Forster describes in the prior comment. When David Allen refers to GTD as a "self coaching" process, IMO he is talking about that as well.
Building an external mechanical system can also change our thinking about that task immediately. For example, if we make that task a MIT for today it suddenly has become a challenger that decides wether today is a good day or not.
The internal reflection process described by Aaron Hsu in the thread opener is part of what self coaching is all about. And yes, coaching is a skillset that has to be learned. And no, most people on this planet are not trained coaches. However, I am sure that both Allen and Forster are both very capable coaches and know all that stuff.
When we procrastinate on a task it may be that we think that we weren't acknowledged on some level and therefore there is no complete internal agreement from our side to engage in that task. Thus we don't do it.
If we also have entered that task into our external mechanical system and there is an agreement that we would adhere to the rules of that system, we now have a conflict about that task going on. We don't want to do that task because lack of agreement, but we want to do that task because agreement with our system; if that makes some sense.
The external mechanical system confronts us with that conflict until it is resolved one way or another.
Regarding the terminology from the thread opener, I would count Perfectionism to the Emotional Avoidance group. What people call perfectionism is just fear of confrontation with one's own reality and thus an emotional issue.
The realm of Executive Dysfunction is adressed in GTD explicitly with Next Action thinking and in most of Mark Forster's system implicitly with "work on that task as long as you see fit and re-enter."
Executive Dysfunction should be overcome by developing new solutions, in most work environments this is not possible due to a dysfunctional leadership.
May 20, 2023 at 15:18 |
Christopher
Christopher
@Mark Forster
"Another advantage with this method is that the difficult tasks quickly become isolated on the list (which is one of the reasons I don't recommend apps which make "done" tasks vanish). An isolated task attracts attention like a flashing beacon."
Productivity apps have gone very far now from just deleting finished tasks. For example, Obsidian,
http://imgur.com/a/gxmA4B1
http://obsidian.md/
can fully replicate all the requirements of all the long list/short list paper systems, including marking, pre marking, crossing out of done tasks, 25-35 tasks per "notebook", and others. Not only that, but it can do things that no notebook system can do, like automatic rewriting of tasks or even on-the-fly editing, trimming down blocks of crossed-out tasks, and even adding items to the beginning of lists instead of the end, among other things. Finally, Obsidian is totally free without ads nor restrictions for personal use, is fully customizable, has an amazing community of users that freely make customized scripts and add-ons for the app which you can download from the app itself, can be used in many platforms, and saves all your files in your device in plain text markdown format instead of uploading it to another server, so all the files are yours and easily edited in a plain text or markdown app. The only disadvantages I can find is that it has a rather steep learning curve if you are not a coder or is not familiar with markdown, but aside from that I really among find a reason why I have to go to paper now.
Also, I cannot help but feel that your whole post is a reaction to my own system of EAF4 that I posted, and I wished you had posted there in the thread too. I did try using reversed AF2 though on Obsidian and I do have to agree that if used then Circumstantial becomes redundant, but I have gone past that and using a modified FVP and it's going really well. I may be posting it in the near future.
"Another advantage with this method is that the difficult tasks quickly become isolated on the list (which is one of the reasons I don't recommend apps which make "done" tasks vanish). An isolated task attracts attention like a flashing beacon."
Productivity apps have gone very far now from just deleting finished tasks. For example, Obsidian,
http://imgur.com/a/gxmA4B1
http://obsidian.md/
can fully replicate all the requirements of all the long list/short list paper systems, including marking, pre marking, crossing out of done tasks, 25-35 tasks per "notebook", and others. Not only that, but it can do things that no notebook system can do, like automatic rewriting of tasks or even on-the-fly editing, trimming down blocks of crossed-out tasks, and even adding items to the beginning of lists instead of the end, among other things. Finally, Obsidian is totally free without ads nor restrictions for personal use, is fully customizable, has an amazing community of users that freely make customized scripts and add-ons for the app which you can download from the app itself, can be used in many platforms, and saves all your files in your device in plain text markdown format instead of uploading it to another server, so all the files are yours and easily edited in a plain text or markdown app. The only disadvantages I can find is that it has a rather steep learning curve if you are not a coder or is not familiar with markdown, but aside from that I really among find a reason why I have to go to paper now.
Also, I cannot help but feel that your whole post is a reaction to my own system of EAF4 that I posted, and I wished you had posted there in the thread too. I did try using reversed AF2 though on Obsidian and I do have to agree that if used then Circumstantial becomes redundant, but I have gone past that and using a modified FVP and it's going really well. I may be posting it in the near future.
June 10, 2023 at 20:15 |
Ed Z
Ed Z
Just so I can contribute something into the discussion, I am currently testing a system to directly blow through tasks with high resistance, and it has different components.
One is the ideas put forth by the Jesuit philosopher Baltasar Gracian, which I had posted. He, among other ideas, proposed to paradoxically treat hard tasks as if they were easy, and easy tasks as if they are hard. He observed that if we think of tasks too much, then we would feel bad if we fail; however, when we are confronted with a hard task, we think about it a lot, especially about how to avoid failure, so if we get into setbacks (which will happen with more frequency with hard tasks) we get easily discouraged. On the other hand, we do easy tasks almost without thought since we have often done them many times already which can become carelessness, or actually procrastinate in doing them because we think we can do them rapidly, but then occasionally don't do them because we run out of time. These are the reasons that he proposes to treat tasks paradoxically, so as to prevent discouragement for hard tasks and ensure completion for easy tasks.
Another of Gracian's ideas is how to handle things. Using the analogy of swords, he wrote: "Everything has its right and wrong side. The best, most favourable thing will injure you if grasped by the blade, whilst the most unfavourable thing will defend you if grasped by the hilt." This is equivalent to the "silver lining" saying, but it is more forceful. Even the worst disaster can be made into an advantage, as long as it is handled correctly. Even procrastinating has and advantage, in that other tasks can be done in lieu of it (ugh, forgot what it's called, but it's one of Mark Forster's central ideas).
There would be other ideas, including St. Thomas Aquinas's thoughts on the passions and virtues, Mark Foster's ideas, ideas from psychology, and so on. I'll probably post if it is successful enough.
One is the ideas put forth by the Jesuit philosopher Baltasar Gracian, which I had posted. He, among other ideas, proposed to paradoxically treat hard tasks as if they were easy, and easy tasks as if they are hard. He observed that if we think of tasks too much, then we would feel bad if we fail; however, when we are confronted with a hard task, we think about it a lot, especially about how to avoid failure, so if we get into setbacks (which will happen with more frequency with hard tasks) we get easily discouraged. On the other hand, we do easy tasks almost without thought since we have often done them many times already which can become carelessness, or actually procrastinate in doing them because we think we can do them rapidly, but then occasionally don't do them because we run out of time. These are the reasons that he proposes to treat tasks paradoxically, so as to prevent discouragement for hard tasks and ensure completion for easy tasks.
Another of Gracian's ideas is how to handle things. Using the analogy of swords, he wrote: "Everything has its right and wrong side. The best, most favourable thing will injure you if grasped by the blade, whilst the most unfavourable thing will defend you if grasped by the hilt." This is equivalent to the "silver lining" saying, but it is more forceful. Even the worst disaster can be made into an advantage, as long as it is handled correctly. Even procrastinating has and advantage, in that other tasks can be done in lieu of it (ugh, forgot what it's called, but it's one of Mark Forster's central ideas).
There would be other ideas, including St. Thomas Aquinas's thoughts on the passions and virtues, Mark Foster's ideas, ideas from psychology, and so on. I'll probably post if it is successful enough.
June 10, 2023 at 21:38 |
Ed Z
Ed Z
Ed Z:
<< Also, I cannot help but feel that your whole post is a reaction to my own system of EAF4 that I posted >>
No, it was in answer to Aaron's post. I wasn't thinking about your system at all when I wrote it.
<< Also, I cannot help but feel that your whole post is a reaction to my own system of EAF4 that I posted >>
No, it was in answer to Aaron's post. I wasn't thinking about your system at all when I wrote it.
June 11, 2023 at 10:44 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
I see. I am sorry Mark.
June 11, 2023 at 21:40 |
Ed Z
Ed Z
Mark, friends:
Thanks a lot for this post. I have just being struggling with procrastination on several issues, and had the same intuition: I'm avoiding because a lot of negative emotions pile up one over the other until they create a kind of garbage pool impossible to clean it up. Mark's methods helps a lot, specially if I use the dialog of "Dreams" to coach myself on the difficult issues, or at least I do freewriting on the subject. Something similar happens with meditation: if I enter a calm state of mind during meditation and simple "observe" the issue (not think discursively, just observe), the negative emotions, i.e.: fear, starts to melt away.
Aaron Hsu: Can you give me data over the Time Surfing approach? Like author, books, websites or articles? I found data about the book by Paul Loomans, but I don't know if that's correct.
Thanks a lot for this post. I have just being struggling with procrastination on several issues, and had the same intuition: I'm avoiding because a lot of negative emotions pile up one over the other until they create a kind of garbage pool impossible to clean it up. Mark's methods helps a lot, specially if I use the dialog of "Dreams" to coach myself on the difficult issues, or at least I do freewriting on the subject. Something similar happens with meditation: if I enter a calm state of mind during meditation and simple "observe" the issue (not think discursively, just observe), the negative emotions, i.e.: fear, starts to melt away.
Aaron Hsu: Can you give me data over the Time Surfing approach? Like author, books, websites or articles? I found data about the book by Paul Loomans, but I don't know if that's correct.
June 14, 2023 at 12:51 |
Pablo
Pablo
Pablo:
The main content on Time Surfing is the book:
https://www.timesurfing.uk/
There are threads here discussing Time Surfing. This one includes back references to previous discussions:
http://markforster.squarespace.com/forum/post/2788227
Paul Loomans also has a short video course if you like that sort of thing.
When you get right down to it, Time Surfing is a sort of no-list method that uses a set of mental habits to manage your time.
The main content on Time Surfing is the book:
https://www.timesurfing.uk/
There are threads here discussing Time Surfing. This one includes back references to previous discussions:
http://markforster.squarespace.com/forum/post/2788227
Paul Loomans also has a short video course if you like that sort of thing.
When you get right down to it, Time Surfing is a sort of no-list method that uses a set of mental habits to manage your time.
June 15, 2023 at 0:37 |
Aaron Hsu
Aaron Hsu
I've adopted the spirit of Time Surfing, but still keep a running list of all my action items in my journal. I don't do daily scans, but I do update unfinished tasks during my weekly planning sessions. I also use Reminders for things that I need to be reminded about.
A couple of years ago I tried a more pure form of Time Surfing - it didn't go well i.e. I forgot a few key things at work and home, with associated consequences.
A couple of years ago I tried a more pure form of Time Surfing - it didn't go well i.e. I forgot a few key things at work and home, with associated consequences.
June 15, 2023 at 13:44 |
avrum
avrum
I used Time Surfing a few years ago with the same problem as Avrum - terribly nervous about missing a few things. I had the same concern about the various no-list systems. However, I would sometimes miss key things with a list as well -- with the speed of life, sometimes I forget to write things down. So when that happened a few weeks ago and I missed something important, I thought "What the heck, if I'm going to miss something anyway I might as well try Time Surfing again." So I went back to time surfing. This time it has been incredible, but probably because I'm paying more attention to the other rules in the system - especially breathers. I have felt very productive when I need to be, and very responsive to my work and my environment. I also feel a lot less guilty about doing nothing, which is wonderful. And so far I haven't missed anything important at all, at least not that I'm aware of! I agree with Loomans: "My intuition was a better manager than my mind. More sensitive, more flexible – and deeper. But I did have to provide it with the right information." (Loomans, Paul. Time Surfing (p. 29). Watkins Media. Kindle Edition.) For me, part of providing the right information wasn't a list, but it was a way of organizing my files, which Obsidian has been really great for me, too. I think it's the combination of Obsidian and Time Surfing that is working for me.
June 15, 2023 at 22:03 |
Paul MacNeil
Paul MacNeil
If people are trying Time Surfing, like with any no-list method, it's important to pay careful attention to how memory is managed. Time Surfing does in fact permit the use of lists, but primarily is driven by other things.
Paul Loomans suggests the use of a "wish list" at the start of the day where you imagine 3 or 4 things (but not really more than that) that are things you'd really like to get done during the day. You visualize and work with those tasks emotionally/internally, and then you let them go and allow your mind to find ways of getting them done in the day. He also advises not going straight to email (which is a sort of list) first thing in the day.
Additionally, he is okay with making up lists of reminders that you need to use to help ensure that you don't forget things (checklists for packing, for instance), including a list of tasks that you might be afraid of forgetting. However, a key element of this is that he suggests studying the list that you have, "making a relationship" with each task (which, in GTD terms would be establishing outcome/Project, Next Action, as well as predicting any obstacles that might hinder execution), and then putting the list away and not really looking at it again until later, where you can use it to "check your work" of the day.
Finally, one thing that isn't highlighted especially well in the book, but which is critical for Time Surfing, is that the system relies on you feeding your mind a very clear sense of the overview and big picture of your life. This would include your calendar, commitments (AKA Authorized Commitments from SoPP), deadlines, and the active projects that you're working to. The suggestion is to sketch out such an overview in whatever way helps you the most with pen and paper as often as you need to do it to help ensure that your mind is in touch with the big picture. For Paul this appears to be roughly once a month. However, like most of these lists, the advice is to study the creation, and then specifically throw it away or put it away and not worry so much about looking at it all the time to choose what to do next.
The idea here is to avoid overplanning specific action lists and then working from those, and to avoid over-organization of your work.
In this way, Time Surfing is a lot like the "Predicting your Day" method or the DREAMS method.
As with any no-list method, I think there is a need to ensure that you have the appropriate guard rails in place for things that you might forget but that must be done in some fashion or another. That could be a daily checklist, or calendar alerts, or something else, but you want to at least be able to catch yourself, especially as you're learning Time Surfing.
Also, I think a lot of people would be tempted to do Time Surfing without actually following the middle rules, which are absolutely essential for doing things well. If you just try to use your intuition and do one thing at a time without understanding how all the other rules help, you'll be very much adrift. I think this is much the same problem that Mark found when people were "unwilling to do the somewhat structured work required" by DREAMS.
Paul Loomans suggests the use of a "wish list" at the start of the day where you imagine 3 or 4 things (but not really more than that) that are things you'd really like to get done during the day. You visualize and work with those tasks emotionally/internally, and then you let them go and allow your mind to find ways of getting them done in the day. He also advises not going straight to email (which is a sort of list) first thing in the day.
Additionally, he is okay with making up lists of reminders that you need to use to help ensure that you don't forget things (checklists for packing, for instance), including a list of tasks that you might be afraid of forgetting. However, a key element of this is that he suggests studying the list that you have, "making a relationship" with each task (which, in GTD terms would be establishing outcome/Project, Next Action, as well as predicting any obstacles that might hinder execution), and then putting the list away and not really looking at it again until later, where you can use it to "check your work" of the day.
Finally, one thing that isn't highlighted especially well in the book, but which is critical for Time Surfing, is that the system relies on you feeding your mind a very clear sense of the overview and big picture of your life. This would include your calendar, commitments (AKA Authorized Commitments from SoPP), deadlines, and the active projects that you're working to. The suggestion is to sketch out such an overview in whatever way helps you the most with pen and paper as often as you need to do it to help ensure that your mind is in touch with the big picture. For Paul this appears to be roughly once a month. However, like most of these lists, the advice is to study the creation, and then specifically throw it away or put it away and not worry so much about looking at it all the time to choose what to do next.
The idea here is to avoid overplanning specific action lists and then working from those, and to avoid over-organization of your work.
In this way, Time Surfing is a lot like the "Predicting your Day" method or the DREAMS method.
As with any no-list method, I think there is a need to ensure that you have the appropriate guard rails in place for things that you might forget but that must be done in some fashion or another. That could be a daily checklist, or calendar alerts, or something else, but you want to at least be able to catch yourself, especially as you're learning Time Surfing.
Also, I think a lot of people would be tempted to do Time Surfing without actually following the middle rules, which are absolutely essential for doing things well. If you just try to use your intuition and do one thing at a time without understanding how all the other rules help, you'll be very much adrift. I think this is much the same problem that Mark found when people were "unwilling to do the somewhat structured work required" by DREAMS.
June 16, 2023 at 7:00 |
Aaron Hsu
Aaron Hsu
If we are thinking about being "effective," which I define as being calm, collected, relatively efficient, sustainable, and productive in the right dimensions, then there are a few things that can trip this up:
1. We can suffer organizational issues, in which the things that we are dealing with are literally exceeding our ability to manage their technical/executive complexity.
2. We can suffer procrastination or other forms of momentum problems, in which we are ineffective in doing the most effective things because of avoidant behaviors of one form or another.
3. we can suffer consistency issues, in which we are unable to sustain regular attention on things, not because of avoidance, but because we are either too diffuse or distracted by many things.
I haven't really struggled with #1 in a long time. I'm rather good at that. I've also been systematically addressing #3 for a while, and even though this can still be an issue for me, I've mostly come up with some good ways of handling that.
But, as many people on this blog have seen, procrastination is often a big issue, in whatever form it may take.
I've been looking at the ways in which people deal with procrastination in various productivity circles, and Time Surfing is very interesting in that it actually *lacks* a specific mechanical approach to directly address procrastination. This is unlike many other systems, which often include very tactical approaches to reducing or fighting procrastination.
The way in which many systems try to deal with procrastination is by creating external tactical mechanisms which are designed to undercut various mental processes in the user and "trick" you into doing this or that, which leads to less procrastination. In other words, they are trying to create environmental factors which cause more or less automatic reductions in the triggers that cause someone to procrastinate.
However, when you get right down to it, the implication here is that addressing procrastination directly is too hard, and so roundabout techniques are needed.
Time Surfing, I think, has an implicit premise that says, "Well, what if we instead just deal with the procrastination directly?" It's certainly not the only method that does this.
"Directly" amounts to spending the time and energy to internally introspect and process all of the emotional and mental baggage that is triggering one's procrastination or avoidance. It's the internal exploration of the whole space, getting to know it intimately, so that the procrastination sort of melts away of its own accord because you've just done all of the mental work to deal with it.
Dr. K has a very good framework (which is more or less mirrored in Time Surfing) that divides procrastination into Executive Dysfunction, Emotional Avoidance, and Perfectionism (IIRC). Other systems tend to address one or the other of these things, but not all of them.
What I think I'm finding is that the more you are willing to invest your energy into doing the internal work of processing all those emotions, working through the executive issues of a problem (something I don't struggle with), and detaching your identity from perfection (something I *do* struggle with), the less you need the external structures to help with getting things done.
While in some sense this is obvious, I think it's one of those things that is obvious and ignored. At least for myself, when I want to reach for some new external system to "fix" my problem, if I instead take that step back and make myself instead do internal work to process things the way they need to be processed internally, I find that the need to fix the issue externally goes away.
Thus, my latest productivity hack that has been working really well, and which I think is excellently encapsulated in the rules of Time Surfing, is not some external tactic, but the internal mantra of, "Just sit with your problem, and let yourself do the internal emotional work that needs to be done." In Time Surfing, this is called making white sheep of your tasks, and building relationships with them, getting to know them, and so forth.
Of course, this is built on years of practice around this kind of mental introspection, and it's undoubtedly a skill that has to be cultivated. There are many people I know personally who are simply not at a place in their life where they are able to do almost any introspection. But I can't help but wonder if it might not be more effective in the long run to spend your "productivity system" efforts on building that internal introspection muscle instead of building external systems, even if, in the short term, that can feel like chaos.
In short, is the best productivity hack actually a type of "productivity meditation?"