Discussion Forum > Narratives not Lists
Personally, if the narratives are too long, it's harder to take action on them, but David Allen observed a while back that concretizing tasks has a strong effect on our ability and desire to complete them. In this respect, the more concrete you can make a task, the more likely you are to be able to act on it with the least amount of mental effort.
In this respect, the more I can make my tasks concrete, the easier it is to get them done, the "next action" effect or "little and often" effect in a specific dimension.
Additionally, it has been noted elsewhere in the personal motivation research that tasks which are tied more strongly to purpose and meaning or the like can be more likely to be done, and so making sure there is a clear connection between a task and the underlying drive for the accomplishment of the task can help (such as your croissant example).
But I'm also biased in this way around tasks because it's important for me to be able to scan tasks quickly in the Re:Zero method or any long list method. I also use pen and paper, which alters my way of working, but even when I worked on digital lists, I found that if they were too long they were too diffuse.
Now, that's not to say that I don't like narrative. I think that narrative is supremely good for journaling, and I like long form journalling a lot better than bullet journaling for precisely this reason, because I can make the narrative that much richer. However, I suspect that maybe the reason that you find it easier to do tasks that have more narrative in them has less to do with the narrative and more to do with the degree to which you have motivated the tasks and operationalized them into concrete actions through that narrative work.
In this respect, the more I can make my tasks concrete, the easier it is to get them done, the "next action" effect or "little and often" effect in a specific dimension.
Additionally, it has been noted elsewhere in the personal motivation research that tasks which are tied more strongly to purpose and meaning or the like can be more likely to be done, and so making sure there is a clear connection between a task and the underlying drive for the accomplishment of the task can help (such as your croissant example).
But I'm also biased in this way around tasks because it's important for me to be able to scan tasks quickly in the Re:Zero method or any long list method. I also use pen and paper, which alters my way of working, but even when I worked on digital lists, I found that if they were too long they were too diffuse.
Now, that's not to say that I don't like narrative. I think that narrative is supremely good for journaling, and I like long form journalling a lot better than bullet journaling for precisely this reason, because I can make the narrative that much richer. However, I suspect that maybe the reason that you find it easier to do tasks that have more narrative in them has less to do with the narrative and more to do with the degree to which you have motivated the tasks and operationalized them into concrete actions through that narrative work.
August 6, 2025 at 19:52 |
Aaron Hsu
Aaron Hsu
<<I suspect that maybe the reason that you find it easier to do tasks that have more narrative in them has less to do with the narrative and more to do with the degree to which you have motivated the tasks and operationalized them into concrete actions through that narrative work>>
That's pretty much it. We are probably saying the same thing differently. I'm just highlighting that the more I work this way, the more I am finding that for most of my tasks 80% of the work **is** the narrative work.
If that sounds odd, replace "narrative work" with "written thinking"
For me personally, I think best while writing and most of my work is knowledge work so I better think while I work!
Regarding narratives that are "too long" I agree with that too. I find that the more I can whittle down to the essence, the better it is. It reminds me of the quote ""If I Had More Time, I Would Have Written a Shorter Letter""
Thanks for your thoughts Aaron.
That's pretty much it. We are probably saying the same thing differently. I'm just highlighting that the more I work this way, the more I am finding that for most of my tasks 80% of the work **is** the narrative work.
If that sounds odd, replace "narrative work" with "written thinking"
For me personally, I think best while writing and most of my work is knowledge work so I better think while I work!
Regarding narratives that are "too long" I agree with that too. I find that the more I can whittle down to the essence, the better it is. It reminds me of the quote ""If I Had More Time, I Would Have Written a Shorter Letter""
Thanks for your thoughts Aaron.
August 7, 2025 at 4:58 |
Brent
Brent
I wrote down 2-3 lines of narrative around my tasks when they were warranted; as Mark would have said, doing so emotionally engaged me more than simply listing them and not dealing with the hidden iceberg of assumptions and emotions underlying them.
But yes, much slower to write. Which made me think i could take a page of my notebook and just journal about the tasks to get those emotions/thoughts out of my head. And THEN proceed with creating a typical Forster list of briefly written tasks. Having confronted the emotions first, a list of task "hints" may communicate faster. That will be today's experiment.
Addendum: one task I wrote a narrative on has pivoted so that I really need to confront my failure regarding it. So a really different narrative and feel to the task is forming now!
But yes, much slower to write. Which made me think i could take a page of my notebook and just journal about the tasks to get those emotions/thoughts out of my head. And THEN proceed with creating a typical Forster list of briefly written tasks. Having confronted the emotions first, a list of task "hints" may communicate faster. That will be today's experiment.
Addendum: one task I wrote a narrative on has pivoted so that I really need to confront my failure regarding it. So a really different narrative and feel to the task is forming now!
August 7, 2025 at 16:45 |
Mike Brown
Mike Brown
Mike: This is what I do. I often will do long form journalling, but keep my list somewhat brief. You do need some way to process the emotions and reasoning around the task, but I like to do that "off list" as it were.
August 7, 2025 at 18:35 |
Aaron Hsu
Aaron Hsu
Which of these is more engaging?
This simple task list?
- Reply to auditor email
- Book reservations
- Go to grocery store
Or these notes?
- The last time I sent the auditor the screenshot they said it was perfect and it answered all their questions. I'll just send this month's version and we should be good to go.
- I'm really looking forward to lunch with the team. The really liked that Sushi place. I'll book reservations there.
- That croissant bread we had last week was delicious. I hope they still have some when I stop by the grocery store on the way home from work.
The three things in each are for the same tasks but I feel a lot less resistance to the notes than to the list.
I mentioned this in a another post in the Obsidian for FVP thread but for me I've really enjoyed thinking and working in more of a long form narrative way rather than bullet points and lists. Obsidian's note structure has encouraged me to write more. In a way it has been like Mark's "Dreams" book where he basically had conversations with himself through writing. As I've been writing narratives instead of lists I've felt more engaged in my work and hobbies. It takes a bit more time to craft a note about a task but I think the time spent actually reduces the time spent resisting and procrastinating.