Discussion Forum > DIT and GTD -- can they be integrated?
Dear David
I certainly think there are lots of good things in GTD, but there are two major points of difference which I would emphasise:
1) GTD is quite complicated. There are an awful lot of lists that you have to maintain. DIT is much simpler once you've learnt the principles.
2) GTD doesn't claim to get everything done. In fact I think David Allen says that it's impossible to do everything. So at the end of the day it still comes down to deciding which task you are going to do out of a whole range of possible tasks. DIT on the other hand encourages you to aim to do everything - and if you don't succeed in doing everything, to look at why you can't.
I'm sure it's possible to integrate some of GTD's principles with DIT, but my own personal opinion is that DIT works just fine on its own (well, I would think that, wouldn't I!)
If you do a search on this site for GTD you will find a lot of comments from readers who have tried both.
I certainly think there are lots of good things in GTD, but there are two major points of difference which I would emphasise:
1) GTD is quite complicated. There are an awful lot of lists that you have to maintain. DIT is much simpler once you've learnt the principles.
2) GTD doesn't claim to get everything done. In fact I think David Allen says that it's impossible to do everything. So at the end of the day it still comes down to deciding which task you are going to do out of a whole range of possible tasks. DIT on the other hand encourages you to aim to do everything - and if you don't succeed in doing everything, to look at why you can't.
I'm sure it's possible to integrate some of GTD's principles with DIT, but my own personal opinion is that DIT works just fine on its own (well, I would think that, wouldn't I!)
If you do a search on this site for GTD you will find a lot of comments from readers who have tried both.
February 4, 2008 at 15:50 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
Hi Mark,
Thanks for the quick reply! I will search and see what others have said. I do like your ideas a lot and plan to implement them.
One more question -- how do I become a registered member on this forum?
Best regards,
-David
Thanks for the quick reply! I will search and see what others have said. I do like your ideas a lot and plan to implement them.
One more question -- how do I become a registered member on this forum?
Best regards,
-David
February 4, 2008 at 16:26 |
David Drake
David Drake
Hello David,
I have combined ideas from Get everything done, do it tomorrow and getting things done into my organisation system. You can read about it on my website http://www.darktea.co.uk/blog/category/series/my-organiser/
The two key concepts my system is built around are
* keeping a number of lists as in GTD such as next actions, waiting for, someday / maybe
* not working on incoming tasks today, but planning them in for tomorrow as in DIT
I have combined ideas from Get everything done, do it tomorrow and getting things done into my organisation system. You can read about it on my website http://www.darktea.co.uk/blog/category/series/my-organiser/
The two key concepts my system is built around are
* keeping a number of lists as in GTD such as next actions, waiting for, someday / maybe
* not working on incoming tasks today, but planning them in for tomorrow as in DIT
February 7, 2008 at 22:49 |
Kate Davis
Kate Davis
Hi Kate,
Thanks -- your system looks good! I am still experimenting with integration of GTD with DIT. I am hopeful that this will work well.
Best regards,
-David
Thanks -- your system looks good! I am still experimenting with integration of GTD with DIT. I am hopeful that this will work well.
Best regards,
-David
February 8, 2008 at 16:05 |
David Drake
David Drake
I have just finished Do It Tomorrow and have been using a paper based GTD system for about four months now. The GTD system definitely increased my productivity. I believe that both systems are well thought out and would greatly improve productivity and have both strengths and weaknesses. Like anything else in life you need to first see if the system appeals to you.
I personally think GTD is great, but in my world the idea of a daily closed list of must do items I believe will focus my efforts greatly. In DIT, I did not see where you capture all of your projects and commitments in one place, which you do in GTD, this has been helpful. I like the idea of seeing all of the outcomes I am working toward in one place. I do feel with GTD list of next actions are helpful, but until you take the time to put them into a daily list of when you will do them like in DIT, you could miss things in the heat of battle that you want to get done.
I personally will be combining the two methods for a while to see how they work together. Mark, thanks for writing a terrific book.
I personally think GTD is great, but in my world the idea of a daily closed list of must do items I believe will focus my efforts greatly. In DIT, I did not see where you capture all of your projects and commitments in one place, which you do in GTD, this has been helpful. I like the idea of seeing all of the outcomes I am working toward in one place. I do feel with GTD list of next actions are helpful, but until you take the time to put them into a daily list of when you will do them like in DIT, you could miss things in the heat of battle that you want to get done.
I personally will be combining the two methods for a while to see how they work together. Mark, thanks for writing a terrific book.
February 19, 2008 at 15:36 |
Rave
Rave
Hi Rave,
I too have a hybrid of GTD and DIT. I follow all of the GTD approach in capturing all input of new tasks and ideas and maintain active next action lists. I also have a Waiting For context and a Someday/Maybe. But I create a closed list of next actions for the day and it provides tremendous focus for me. Sure, some things do unexpectedly come up, and if they are really due today, then they are added below the line on my action lists for the day and get done when I am finished with my planned work, or at the best opportunity for me to complete this unexpected work. Very rarely I will have one of those 911 days where multiple things come up unexpectedly and my day needs to be reconfigured. It can and will happen, but for my work, as a professor at a major research university, proper planning keeps this at a minimum.
Best regards,
-David
I too have a hybrid of GTD and DIT. I follow all of the GTD approach in capturing all input of new tasks and ideas and maintain active next action lists. I also have a Waiting For context and a Someday/Maybe. But I create a closed list of next actions for the day and it provides tremendous focus for me. Sure, some things do unexpectedly come up, and if they are really due today, then they are added below the line on my action lists for the day and get done when I am finished with my planned work, or at the best opportunity for me to complete this unexpected work. Very rarely I will have one of those 911 days where multiple things come up unexpectedly and my day needs to be reconfigured. It can and will happen, but for my work, as a professor at a major research university, proper planning keeps this at a minimum.
Best regards,
-David
February 19, 2008 at 17:22 |
David Drake
David Drake
You may be interested in a discussion that has been taking place on the Getting things done forums about incorporating both systems
http://www.davidco.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8042
http://www.davidco.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8042
February 23, 2008 at 16:41 |
Kate Davis
Kate Davis
I'm very glad to see this thread because I am a fan of both approaches. I find them complementary because in most respects they are in agreement, and in others they are focusing on slightly different aspects of the problem.
I find GTD brilliant as a system, a process, and a very specific methodology for digging yourself out of a major hole. With DIT you can declare a backlog, but the GTD method of cranking through all the stuff to 'process' that backlog has saved me many a time.
But Mark Forster's first book (and subsequent writing) focuses so insightfully on the key problem of resistance. And the more techniques for dealing with that,the better! And other insights that make it easier to do the work being organised by the GTD methodology.
I'm slightly surprised to see Mark Forster say above (contrasting it with GTD) that DIT encourages people to do everything. Are you equivocating on the meaning of 'everything'? 'Everything one *could* do' - which David Allen discourages you from believing vs. 'everything one has committed to do' which DIT aims at? An important difference! I ask not least because one of the lessons you really brought home to me in your first book was the need to say no and *not* commit yourself to everything your asked to do or can think of doing!
Thanks for your excellent work in general.
I find GTD brilliant as a system, a process, and a very specific methodology for digging yourself out of a major hole. With DIT you can declare a backlog, but the GTD method of cranking through all the stuff to 'process' that backlog has saved me many a time.
But Mark Forster's first book (and subsequent writing) focuses so insightfully on the key problem of resistance. And the more techniques for dealing with that,the better! And other insights that make it easier to do the work being organised by the GTD methodology.
I'm slightly surprised to see Mark Forster say above (contrasting it with GTD) that DIT encourages people to do everything. Are you equivocating on the meaning of 'everything'? 'Everything one *could* do' - which David Allen discourages you from believing vs. 'everything one has committed to do' which DIT aims at? An important difference! I ask not least because one of the lessons you really brought home to me in your first book was the need to say no and *not* commit yourself to everything your asked to do or can think of doing!
Thanks for your excellent work in general.
April 3, 2008 at 21:47 |
Gwen
Gwen
Dear Gwen
As I've said many times over, the aim of Do It Tomorrow is to get everything done. What that means is everything that you have committed yourself to.
If you are going to get everything you have committed yourself to done, then you have got to define your commitments very carefully. That is the unique feature of DIT. It forces you to audit what you are including in 'everything'. If your 'everything' is too large then you can't possibly do it all.
GTD on the other hand never forces you to define 'everything', so you can never get everything done. That means that some of your commitments will get done well, some less than well, and some not done at all. I don't regard that as a desirable state of affairs.
As I've said many times over, the aim of Do It Tomorrow is to get everything done. What that means is everything that you have committed yourself to.
If you are going to get everything you have committed yourself to done, then you have got to define your commitments very carefully. That is the unique feature of DIT. It forces you to audit what you are including in 'everything'. If your 'everything' is too large then you can't possibly do it all.
GTD on the other hand never forces you to define 'everything', so you can never get everything done. That means that some of your commitments will get done well, some less than well, and some not done at all. I don't regard that as a desirable state of affairs.
April 3, 2008 at 22:20 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
Hello,
For implementing GTD you might try out my application for time management and productivity,
http://www.gtdagenda.com
You can use it to manage your goals, projects and tasks, set next actions and contexts, use checklists, schedules and a calendar.
Hope you like it.
For implementing GTD you might try out my application for time management and productivity,
http://www.gtdagenda.com
You can use it to manage your goals, projects and tasks, set next actions and contexts, use checklists, schedules and a calendar.
Hope you like it.
April 16, 2008 at 16:35 |
DanGTD
DanGTD
David Allan says "You can do anything, but not everything" - the title of one article about his methods. I think David's definition of "everything" would be something like "everything you have been asked to do, can imagine you would enjoy doing and would actually like to get done if it were possible."
On the other hand, Mark would likely say that you CAN do everything, with "everything" being defined as "everything you have re-committed yourself to doing after reviewing all your commitments in the light of what you know to be a full day's work."
David's definition of "everything" comes before the analysis and commitment stage, and Mark's comes after. David Allen does presume a certain amount of maturity, judgement and decisiveness - an ability to self-regulate to some degree. Mark's method on the other hand *requires* you to track your work, determine a reasonable workload on a daily basis and eliminate what you cannot do, accordingly.
If you think in terms of a "Drucker Time Analysis" one could perhaps say that David's method assumes your prior knowledge of your general use of time and your key result areas. He essentially states this by explaining his method as "runway level" and outlining how you can think of the higher altitudes once you have cleared the runway. Whereas Mark's method is more like doing an ongoing Drucker Analysis as part of your method of managing your time. (There are executives who do this, as well).
I think it is combination of personality, preferred work style and job type that would render one or the other more useful.
A bit extended,... but I was thinking as I was typing....
Cheers,
Gordon
On the other hand, Mark would likely say that you CAN do everything, with "everything" being defined as "everything you have re-committed yourself to doing after reviewing all your commitments in the light of what you know to be a full day's work."
David's definition of "everything" comes before the analysis and commitment stage, and Mark's comes after. David Allen does presume a certain amount of maturity, judgement and decisiveness - an ability to self-regulate to some degree. Mark's method on the other hand *requires* you to track your work, determine a reasonable workload on a daily basis and eliminate what you cannot do, accordingly.
If you think in terms of a "Drucker Time Analysis" one could perhaps say that David's method assumes your prior knowledge of your general use of time and your key result areas. He essentially states this by explaining his method as "runway level" and outlining how you can think of the higher altitudes once you have cleared the runway. Whereas Mark's method is more like doing an ongoing Drucker Analysis as part of your method of managing your time. (There are executives who do this, as well).
I think it is combination of personality, preferred work style and job type that would render one or the other more useful.
A bit extended,... but I was thinking as I was typing....
Cheers,
Gordon
April 18, 2008 at 1:34 |
Gordon
Gordon
I just finished reading your book DIT and found it fascinating. I have been following David Allen's GTD approach to my work. I have two questions for you. First, what do you think of Getting Things Done by David Allen? Second, do you think that one could integrate some of the principles of GTD with DIT?
Best regards,
-David