Discussion Forum > Electronic improvements over paper-based approach
Frank:
Thanks for this contribution. Those all sound very sensible points and conform to the spirit of Autofocus.
Thanks for this contribution. Those all sound very sensible points and conform to the spirit of Autofocus.
January 6, 2009 at 10:32 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
I've been applying Frank's method, and have taken it a step further (perhaps too far?)
I'm using MLO, and when I have partially completed an item, or finished a recurring one, I drag it onto the final page, so I am not keeping a record of what I have partially completed.
But in addition, when I complete a non-recurring one, I have taken to just deleting it, rather than crossing it out and maybe filtering it out of view. It's keeping it simple, from the point of view that if it's done, it doesn't matter any more.
Is this too minimalist? It feels a little ungrounded, and I'm wondering if others have tried this and how they are finding it. I still think it may be useful, as one can otherwise spend a lot of time reviewing productivity scores which may not be needed if one is already motivated.
I'm using MLO, and when I have partially completed an item, or finished a recurring one, I drag it onto the final page, so I am not keeping a record of what I have partially completed.
But in addition, when I complete a non-recurring one, I have taken to just deleting it, rather than crossing it out and maybe filtering it out of view. It's keeping it simple, from the point of view that if it's done, it doesn't matter any more.
Is this too minimalist? It feels a little ungrounded, and I'm wondering if others have tried this and how they are finding it. I still think it may be useful, as one can otherwise spend a lot of time reviewing productivity scores which may not be needed if one is already motivated.
January 12, 2009 at 11:19 |
Laurence
Laurence
It's an interesting idea, Laurence.
To put on my philosophical hat for a moment, it's kind of a time management approach to the "living in the present moment" idea that is so prevalent in many Eastern philosophies and traditions.
In effect, you end up with no electronic "residue" in your life and you (as a human being) simply become a real-time processor of thoughts and actions that you are intuitively drawn towards (on your Autofocus list), and which you then simply release into the great completed ToDo list in the sky as you move your focus elsewhere.
Deep, profound and...time for my lunch.
To put on my philosophical hat for a moment, it's kind of a time management approach to the "living in the present moment" idea that is so prevalent in many Eastern philosophies and traditions.
In effect, you end up with no electronic "residue" in your life and you (as a human being) simply become a real-time processor of thoughts and actions that you are intuitively drawn towards (on your Autofocus list), and which you then simply release into the great completed ToDo list in the sky as you move your focus elsewhere.
Deep, profound and...time for my lunch.
January 12, 2009 at 12:07 |
Frank
Frank
And another philosophical question:
Once you've trained yourself rigorously to respond to the item that "stands out" for you, do you eventually get to a place where you don't need a list at all?
Once you've trained yourself rigorously to respond to the item that "stands out" for you, do you eventually get to a place where you don't need a list at all?
January 12, 2009 at 12:27 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
I like that idea alot, Mark.
Autofocus then reveals its true nature as being a training wheel to help us develop (or perhaps, remember) our own natural intuitive abilities.
Along those lines, I've certainly had a number of "coincidences" happen just in the past week or so of using the system whereby I've been able to complete separate tasks simultaneously that initially appeared to have nothing in common, or other people have unintentionally completed tasks for me that I've needed doing, or I've just been in the right place at the right time to get something done easily.
It is perhaps the dawning of the age of the Time Management Jedi.
<Darth Vader Voice On>
"The Autofocus List Is Long With This One" <grin>
Autofocus then reveals its true nature as being a training wheel to help us develop (or perhaps, remember) our own natural intuitive abilities.
Along those lines, I've certainly had a number of "coincidences" happen just in the past week or so of using the system whereby I've been able to complete separate tasks simultaneously that initially appeared to have nothing in common, or other people have unintentionally completed tasks for me that I've needed doing, or I've just been in the right place at the right time to get something done easily.
It is perhaps the dawning of the age of the Time Management Jedi.
<Darth Vader Voice On>
"The Autofocus List Is Long With This One" <grin>
January 12, 2009 at 14:07 |
Frank
Frank
Oh dear ..........
it is definately time for lunch!!!!
it is definately time for lunch!!!!
January 12, 2009 at 14:13 |
Christine B
Christine B
and to spell definitely correctly ......
January 12, 2009 at 14:14 |
Christine B
Christine B
Re Mark's philosophical question
Funnily enough, just before AF beta started, I was experimenting with asking the question:
Is there anything I can do while I am here, now, that will need to be done at some point in the future?
The answer might be - store such and such on a shelf in the next room. Where the question can be asked again.
The question has looser forms: it can end "that may need to be done ...." or "that will or may be useful ..."
When I am away from my AF list (or forum!) I'm still doing this.
Funnily enough, just before AF beta started, I was experimenting with asking the question:
Is there anything I can do while I am here, now, that will need to be done at some point in the future?
The answer might be - store such and such on a shelf in the next room. Where the question can be asked again.
The question has looser forms: it can end "that may need to be done ...." or "that will or may be useful ..."
When I am away from my AF list (or forum!) I'm still doing this.
January 12, 2009 at 15:35 |
Laurence
Laurence
Mark, I completely agree. When I read the Beta email it reminded me of a vignette in Randy Pausch's lecture. He wants his son to clean his room, but his son says., "It's too hard!" so Randy asks him if he can go pick up his dirty clothes and put them in the hamper. The son agrees, and when he comes back Randy asks him if he can make his bed. This continues until the son has cleaned the entire room. It's an ordinary story about how to manage big jobs and it looks to me as if autofocus is just a system of teaching us to do the same for ourselves. "Do my taxes? No time! But I can get the receipts together and put them on the desk...."
January 12, 2009 at 15:56 |
Kevin
Kevin
RE: Serendipity ...
One way I've seen this happen is in my house cleaning chores. I found an item on my list to do the laundry. While getting the laundry started, I found something to tidy up in the bedroom. One of those things belonged in my office and while putting it there, I saw some things I could tidy up and then ... well, you get the idea.
I began to wonder how to update my list and, after a while, decided it really did not matter. Crossing off and moving things to the bottom does not serve much purpose if 1) you still have work to do on it, and 2) you did cross off something on that page. I mean, it matters to the system IF you are going down the list doing things, but if when I find myself "having worked" on something, I don't always move it unless I want to change the wording of the task.
So I crossed off Laundry. I crossed off clean kitchen and moved it down ... in that case I did a big slug of work but have more to do. I just left "clean office" as I was only there for a short time and did not do a whole lot. It seems to be one of these common sense things.
Make sense?
Mike
One way I've seen this happen is in my house cleaning chores. I found an item on my list to do the laundry. While getting the laundry started, I found something to tidy up in the bedroom. One of those things belonged in my office and while putting it there, I saw some things I could tidy up and then ... well, you get the idea.
I began to wonder how to update my list and, after a while, decided it really did not matter. Crossing off and moving things to the bottom does not serve much purpose if 1) you still have work to do on it, and 2) you did cross off something on that page. I mean, it matters to the system IF you are going down the list doing things, but if when I find myself "having worked" on something, I don't always move it unless I want to change the wording of the task.
So I crossed off Laundry. I crossed off clean kitchen and moved it down ... in that case I did a big slug of work but have more to do. I just left "clean office" as I was only there for a short time and did not do a whole lot. It seems to be one of these common sense things.
Make sense?
Mike
January 12, 2009 at 16:57 |
Mike
Mike
Hi Mike
Whilst there is a logic to what you are doing, the way in which AF works is intuitive and that approach would inhibit that. A number of small tasks (particularly things like household chores) will get done automatically. If they are on your list then cross them off when you get to the relevant page. You may decide, or have decided, not to put such tasks on the list in future, unless they become a "backlog". However, by not crossing off and relisting partially completed tasks, you (a) lose the prompt to rework on it for a longer period and (b) will eventually get to the point where it is the only item on the page and it will need to be rejected.
There are a number of posts on this but briefly the best advice is to work with the system exactly as written for a period of time before trying to second guess it.
Good luck ...
Whilst there is a logic to what you are doing, the way in which AF works is intuitive and that approach would inhibit that. A number of small tasks (particularly things like household chores) will get done automatically. If they are on your list then cross them off when you get to the relevant page. You may decide, or have decided, not to put such tasks on the list in future, unless they become a "backlog". However, by not crossing off and relisting partially completed tasks, you (a) lose the prompt to rework on it for a longer period and (b) will eventually get to the point where it is the only item on the page and it will need to be rejected.
There are a number of posts on this but briefly the best advice is to work with the system exactly as written for a period of time before trying to second guess it.
Good luck ...
January 12, 2009 at 17:14 |
Christine B
Christine B
Mike:
Actually it does matter because items on pages at the end of the list tend to move much faster than items further back. Therefore moving something to the end of the list means that it may catch the crest of the wave.
Actually it does matter because items on pages at the end of the list tend to move much faster than items further back. Therefore moving something to the end of the list means that it may catch the crest of the wave.
January 12, 2009 at 19:33 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
Hi Mark,
I'm going to have to chew on that for a while. If I'm on page one and I start working on the forth item and "accidentally" do the third item on page six, I'm not sure what is gained or lost by how I treat that item on page six. If I leave it in place, I'm going to get to it soon enough and deal with it then, or just a tad later if it moves to the bottom of page seven, my last page. If I accidentally worked on the second item on page one I'd probably move it to the end of the list because I was working on that same page.
I guess I'm going to have to think more about it and get a better handle on the idea of items "moving" faster. I can't get my head around that at the moment. I would think that how fast an items "moves" is a function of its complexity and any procrastination attached to it, not the other items on the page.
But I'm probably missing something obvious.
I'm going to have to chew on that for a while. If I'm on page one and I start working on the forth item and "accidentally" do the third item on page six, I'm not sure what is gained or lost by how I treat that item on page six. If I leave it in place, I'm going to get to it soon enough and deal with it then, or just a tad later if it moves to the bottom of page seven, my last page. If I accidentally worked on the second item on page one I'd probably move it to the end of the list because I was working on that same page.
I guess I'm going to have to think more about it and get a better handle on the idea of items "moving" faster. I can't get my head around that at the moment. I would think that how fast an items "moves" is a function of its complexity and any procrastination attached to it, not the other items on the page.
But I'm probably missing something obvious.
January 12, 2009 at 20:58 |
Mike
Mike
Mike:
I was not referring to doing something "accidentally" but to whether it was worth re-entering items at the end of the list if a) there was still work to be done on them and b) if at least one item had already been done on the page.
Take the example of "Comments" (i.e. what I'm doing at the moment). I'm doing this many times a day because it keeps moving to the end of the list. I am on the last page on my list at the moment and there are only two empty lines left. When I finish this task it will be re-entered either on this page or the next one (if I have thought of more than one other item in the meantime). That means I can now work on all the other things on this page for as long as I wish, and then immediately go to "Comments" again. The same thing may happen several times before going back to the beginning of the list.
If "Comments" were stuck immoveably on a prior page, it would only be dealt with once every 9 pages. That would probably be once or twice a day, which at the present rate of commenting would be inadequate.
I was not referring to doing something "accidentally" but to whether it was worth re-entering items at the end of the list if a) there was still work to be done on them and b) if at least one item had already been done on the page.
Take the example of "Comments" (i.e. what I'm doing at the moment). I'm doing this many times a day because it keeps moving to the end of the list. I am on the last page on my list at the moment and there are only two empty lines left. When I finish this task it will be re-entered either on this page or the next one (if I have thought of more than one other item in the meantime). That means I can now work on all the other things on this page for as long as I wish, and then immediately go to "Comments" again. The same thing may happen several times before going back to the beginning of the list.
If "Comments" were stuck immoveably on a prior page, it would only be dealt with once every 9 pages. That would probably be once or twice a day, which at the present rate of commenting would be inadequate.
January 13, 2009 at 11:05 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
This highlights just how functionally different the last page is to all other pages. And makes sense of the idea that the last page is where most of the action is.
January 13, 2009 at 11:13 |
Dm
Dm
The differences with the way the last page works have made me reconsider, and I no longer move or delete completed items. I strike out and re-enter, as the other way was artificially reducing the number of items on the final page. Of course, some might like to linger on it longer than would otherwise happen . . .
Also I quite like having a record of what has been done.
Also I quite like having a record of what has been done.
January 15, 2009 at 14:35 |
Laurence
Laurence
Hi Christine,
I'm on assignment in Zambia, terrible Internet connections, so I'm missing the AF Forum and all its reactions, ideas etc.
I've now got my pages set up in OneNote 2007, it's great to link a "Defer to Do Later" (after highlighting it yellow which I do when I skim the page) to an Outlook task/reminder, a bit like "fire and forget" because Outlook will remind me to re-enter it (copy and paste using OneNote).
My AF tasks that I feel "stand out" are highlighted in bright green, then apply "Strikethrough" after doing it (and copy and paste if more to be done). I try to make sure I only first highlight in green when I want to do that one, ie only have ONE green "NO strikethrough" on any page at one time; not always successful, but getting better.
Dismissed items are highlighted in pink, to be reviewed later (weekly?).
So anything untouched ie plain text has not really been reviewed or stands out, just captured where it belongs.
Now I wish I had access to a printer to print out my OneNote AF pages when away from my computer.
I'd like to correspond with you re OneNote. Please email me at rhj1947ATgmail.com and I'll send you my standard email address.
I'm on assignment in Zambia, terrible Internet connections, so I'm missing the AF Forum and all its reactions, ideas etc.
I've now got my pages set up in OneNote 2007, it's great to link a "Defer to Do Later" (after highlighting it yellow which I do when I skim the page) to an Outlook task/reminder, a bit like "fire and forget" because Outlook will remind me to re-enter it (copy and paste using OneNote).
My AF tasks that I feel "stand out" are highlighted in bright green, then apply "Strikethrough" after doing it (and copy and paste if more to be done). I try to make sure I only first highlight in green when I want to do that one, ie only have ONE green "NO strikethrough" on any page at one time; not always successful, but getting better.
Dismissed items are highlighted in pink, to be reviewed later (weekly?).
So anything untouched ie plain text has not really been reviewed or stands out, just captured where it belongs.
Now I wish I had access to a printer to print out my OneNote AF pages when away from my computer.
I'd like to correspond with you re OneNote. Please email me at rhj1947ATgmail.com and I'll send you my standard email address.
January 17, 2009 at 12:26 |
Roger J
Roger J
Hi Roger
Would be happy to correspond with you re OneNote and will email you at the address mentioned.
Just an observation on what you have written above, it sounds as if you are using OneNote exclusively for AF. My personal recommendation would be to run AF on paper and use OneNote more as an add-on. I add each page to OneNote only when completed (takes about 2 minutes) and wherever possible work from my notepad. It is easy to sync the two (manually of course!) and you then have access to your list when you are away from your PC - or if there is a power cut!
I keep my pages as close to the paper system as possible. I highlight completed items in yellow (rather than striking through) but would recommend not adding any other form of highlighting until you dismiss the last items on a page. I highlighted in green an item I intended to dismiss, even though I still had open items, simply because seeing the item was annoying me. I found however that the highlighting distracted my focus when scanning a page. It highlighted to me (no pun intended!) that Mark's instructions should be followed - dismiss all items when the system decrees and not before!
Would be happy to correspond with you re OneNote and will email you at the address mentioned.
Just an observation on what you have written above, it sounds as if you are using OneNote exclusively for AF. My personal recommendation would be to run AF on paper and use OneNote more as an add-on. I add each page to OneNote only when completed (takes about 2 minutes) and wherever possible work from my notepad. It is easy to sync the two (manually of course!) and you then have access to your list when you are away from your PC - or if there is a power cut!
I keep my pages as close to the paper system as possible. I highlight completed items in yellow (rather than striking through) but would recommend not adding any other form of highlighting until you dismiss the last items on a page. I highlighted in green an item I intended to dismiss, even though I still had open items, simply because seeing the item was annoying me. I found however that the highlighting distracted my focus when scanning a page. It highlighted to me (no pun intended!) that Mark's instructions should be followed - dismiss all items when the system decrees and not before!
January 17, 2009 at 16:40 |
Christine B
Christine B
I initially had a problem with the last page not filling at the proper "rate" when you drag & drop a completed item to the bottom of the same page. Then I hit upon this solution:
If a completed item is to be added to a later page, just drag and drop the item to its new location. If, instead, it is to be appended to the same page, I cut the TEXT from the completed item (leaving a blank line) and create a new entry at the end of the page and paste in the text.
If a completed item is to be added to a later page, just drag and drop the item to its new location. If, instead, it is to be appended to the same page, I cut the TEXT from the completed item (leaving a blank line) and create a new entry at the end of the page and paste in the text.
January 17, 2009 at 17:35 |
Rick
Rick
I would really recommend treating any electronic system as if it were paper. Just cross out, tick or electronically highlight a completed item and relist at the bottom of the last page if necessary. Cutting and pasting is actually not a quick way to do this, and in any event you should really copy and paste, or you lose the record of the item - if you just have a blank line you will not know what you completed. It should take seconds to type or retype an item. It takes me just a couple of minutes to type in a page (34 lines) to OneNote and highlight any items already completed by that time. I ALWAYS start with paper and add pages to OneNote only once they are filled.
Hope that helps
Hope that helps
January 17, 2009 at 18:30 |
Christine B
Christine B
Frank amd Laurence:
Your posts really helped clear up what was on my mind on how to handle tasks in the software I use (MLO). Up till now, I have used the strike through option for partially completed and recurring tasks (they appear on the active page), and complete function for completed tasks (they disappear from the active page, but are archived).
The strikethrough did give some sort of idea of completion and motivation, as more of them appeared on an active page, but I think simply completing all tasks, partially or fully completed and removing them from view on the current active page would be far more powerful as I see a diminishing list of actions.
Your posts really helped clear up what was on my mind on how to handle tasks in the software I use (MLO). Up till now, I have used the strike through option for partially completed and recurring tasks (they appear on the active page), and complete function for completed tasks (they disappear from the active page, but are archived).
The strikethrough did give some sort of idea of completion and motivation, as more of them appeared on an active page, but I think simply completing all tasks, partially or fully completed and removing them from view on the current active page would be far more powerful as I see a diminishing list of actions.
January 18, 2009 at 6:10 |
JD
JD
After a few days of using it as described by Frank, 2 things stood out for me:
(1)if you are working on the very last page, it does sense to cross out a partially completed task and then copying it to be bottom of the list (if there is still space), rather than just copying the task to the bottom of the page. That gives you a visual cue that you have worked on the task further up the list. It may stand out less that other tasks you have not worked on. If you are intending to move it to a fresh page, of course, then simply removing it from the current page works just fine.
(2)copying a partially worked on task and then moving it to the end of the list works better for me than moving the task. This is easily achieved via the Ctrl+D shortcut in MLO. The reason for this is that on the duplicate task, you can make notes on what has been done before moving it, whilst leaving the original task as it is. Then complete the original task and remove it from view. This provides the "audit trail" Frank talks about. Not a big point for simple actions, but for actions that require multiple rounds to complete it might be useful to see progress at each instance.
Just some comments, hopefully of interest to those who are electronically managing their AF lists.
(1)if you are working on the very last page, it does sense to cross out a partially completed task and then copying it to be bottom of the list (if there is still space), rather than just copying the task to the bottom of the page. That gives you a visual cue that you have worked on the task further up the list. It may stand out less that other tasks you have not worked on. If you are intending to move it to a fresh page, of course, then simply removing it from the current page works just fine.
(2)copying a partially worked on task and then moving it to the end of the list works better for me than moving the task. This is easily achieved via the Ctrl+D shortcut in MLO. The reason for this is that on the duplicate task, you can make notes on what has been done before moving it, whilst leaving the original task as it is. Then complete the original task and remove it from view. This provides the "audit trail" Frank talks about. Not a big point for simple actions, but for actions that require multiple rounds to complete it might be useful to see progress at each instance.
Just some comments, hopefully of interest to those who are electronically managing their AF lists.
January 21, 2009 at 4:28 |
JD
JD





I'm using it probably 80 percent of the time on my Blackberry PDA now so that I'm collecting and doing tasks just from a handheld, which syncs wirelessly to my desktop PC in the background so I can work at my desktop when I need to.
There's a few points that I've noticed while working on the PDA which seem to be remnants of using a paper-based approach (which leaves a fixed pen & ink trail behind) and don't seem necessary for an electronic approach...
1. I don't see the need to show completed tasks on an active page. This way the list of tasks for each page just gets smaller as I complete more and more tasks. This reduces the need for scrolling so much on a small PDA screen. There is still the effect of relative procrastination, perhaps even better, because you can see quite dramatically how few items are left to be done...perhaps even enhancing the closed list effect.
2. I don't see the need to make a copy of an existing task that I've completed for now. I can just move the entire task to the latest active page. It's a small point, I know, but it saves a few seconds and a bit of fiddly button pushing for each task on my PDA to move rather than create a new entry on the final page and then mark the existing one complete on the current active page.
As far as I can see, I'm only losing an audit trail of what I've only partially completed on the current active page. The fully completed tasks are archived on that page (though are being filtered out as mentioned in the previous point) so I still have that information to refer back to. I don't think I'm losing anything important because I don't care too much about tasks that are still ongoing - the fact that the task is still on the end of my list (my last electronic page) because I moved it when I had done enough for now is what counts isn't it?
3. I don't see the need to highlight dismissed tasks (though admittedly I haven't yet managed to dismiss a page of tasks). Just by not showing completed tasks (as mentioned earlier) and then moving this dismissed page to an "Archived" section of my folder list is the same thing, I think, because all that is left showing on that page now are the tasks that were rejected.
If I need to review rejected tasks, I can easily browse through the Archived section of my folder list.
Just some observations. Feel free to let me know if you think these modifications are detracting from the system in some way.