Discussion Forum > AF lack of daily structure an issue
Hi Steve, I have experienced similar problems to yourself. I thrive on structure and DIT provides this structure and a feeling of completeness to the day. I feel somewhat re-assurred that somebody as well versed as yourself in time management has also recognised this issue relating to AF. Moreover DIT appears to me to be a much more efficient system requiring less upkeep and task switching / deciding *what* to work on in general.
January 12, 2009 at 11:17 |
Leon
Leon
Steve
As I've said before, I have absolutely no problem with someone preferring DIT to Autofocus. I'm conscious that I myself am much more productive with Autofocus, but obviously different people will respond differently.
There are however two things I would query about what you say:
1) Always picking the easy tasks. I've got 11 pages "active" at the moment. There are certainly plenty of easy items on the last two pages, but the remaining 9 page are full of solid work items. I'm no more free to do only the easy tasks than I was with DIT - indeed somewhat less because when I'm on one of the early pages there are no easy tasks to do.
2) Weeding the task list. There's nothing to stop you crossing out tasks you no longer feel are relevant at any stage. However the real weeding takes place during the "dismissal" phase, which forces you to look at items hard to see why you've been resisting them or whether they should be done at all.
As I've said before, I have absolutely no problem with someone preferring DIT to Autofocus. I'm conscious that I myself am much more productive with Autofocus, but obviously different people will respond differently.
There are however two things I would query about what you say:
1) Always picking the easy tasks. I've got 11 pages "active" at the moment. There are certainly plenty of easy items on the last two pages, but the remaining 9 page are full of solid work items. I'm no more free to do only the easy tasks than I was with DIT - indeed somewhat less because when I'm on one of the early pages there are no easy tasks to do.
2) Weeding the task list. There's nothing to stop you crossing out tasks you no longer feel are relevant at any stage. However the real weeding takes place during the "dismissal" phase, which forces you to look at items hard to see why you've been resisting them or whether they should be done at all.
January 12, 2009 at 12:08 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
I've not yet encountered this problem yet, although I'm getting close on some early pages... The fundamental question you face when all easy items have disappeared from the page is: do I dismiss the rest or do I have to do some of the remaining ones before dismissing?
I found AF addresses procrastination in two different ways. When there are lots of tasks on a page, the fact that procrastination is relative helps you to keep moving. Once the easy items have gone, the "rules of the game" are such that, in order to get to some items you'd like/need to be working on but that are on the next pages, you *must* first do a task from the current page to be allowed to leave it. So there is a reward for doing the difficult item: the "permission" to go working on nicer ones.
Finally, I find that the "I'll get the file out" approach (a.k.a. little and often) can help unblock these hard items. Even if you resent working on them, it's almosty aways possible to find an easy action that you don't resent. As the rules allow you to stop whenever you like (as I wrote before, the AF system promotes "starting" over "completing"), you can then cross out the task and rewrite a next step at the end of the list. And there is a high probability that once you get started, you continue anyway and do more than you initially intended. And even if you don't, you'll have made a little progress...
I found AF addresses procrastination in two different ways. When there are lots of tasks on a page, the fact that procrastination is relative helps you to keep moving. Once the easy items have gone, the "rules of the game" are such that, in order to get to some items you'd like/need to be working on but that are on the next pages, you *must* first do a task from the current page to be allowed to leave it. So there is a reward for doing the difficult item: the "permission" to go working on nicer ones.
Finally, I find that the "I'll get the file out" approach (a.k.a. little and often) can help unblock these hard items. Even if you resent working on them, it's almosty aways possible to find an easy action that you don't resent. As the rules allow you to stop whenever you like (as I wrote before, the AF system promotes "starting" over "completing"), you can then cross out the task and rewrite a next step at the end of the list. And there is a high probability that once you get started, you continue anyway and do more than you initially intended. And even if you don't, you'll have made a little progress...
January 12, 2009 at 13:45 |
Marc (from Brussels)
Marc (from Brussels)
Well said Marc, and the natural by product of the lack of procrastination is that we are "working" on tasks which in one way or another are productive (or AF would have rejected them) for close to 100% of a working day (or more if you define a working day as 7-8 hours!)
January 12, 2009 at 13:53 |
Christine B
Christine B
Hi Mark,
I agree it gets to a point where there are no easy tasks - that is the point I think when the procrastination wall hits even harder at least for me. Items that shouldn't legitimately be dismissed are on the list - but I don't want to take action on them for whatever reason. So I either cheat the system and go looking for something easy to do - or sit there weighing up the pros/cons of taking action on one of the involved items. What I have found is I can occupy my time entering more items on the list - or doing something that I can falsely give immediate attention to for the time being. Basically now I am looking at ways to avoid the pages with the involved items.
The feeling I get from DIT is a lot different because I have a daily planned workload - that has been almost pre-approved and weeded. To not do an involved action, or not to attempt to do it, without very good reason. Means I have not followed my plan. I think to an extent I do like the adage 'plan your work' - 'work your plan'. In a way I feel more compelled to at least make a start and that is normally the first hurdle.
I realise that weeding in AF can be done, but again we are dealing with a long list and not a daily list. So I have certainly found a tendency to keep trivial items 'in case' I get to a particular page and hit the wall again. Trivial items on my daily list are removed as a matter of course. With a view to keeping as much time available as possible for anything 'same day urgent' that might crop up. With AF they are staying - almost like a type of safety net.
I don't think the system itself is at fault in any way - it is down to my own personality type and the problems I have had in the past with procrastination. DIT gives me a daily structure - a framework for the day - which I combine with the Now Habit Unschedule. I don't get the same feeling from AF - I get the feeling of a never ending day. I would have to frame the day by some other means outside of AF itself - even with the Unschedule in place. I suppose in other words I need to know the planned workload for the day so I can plan and make adjustments overall. Which is why I think DIT suits me better because of the structure it imposes.
All the best
Steve
I agree it gets to a point where there are no easy tasks - that is the point I think when the procrastination wall hits even harder at least for me. Items that shouldn't legitimately be dismissed are on the list - but I don't want to take action on them for whatever reason. So I either cheat the system and go looking for something easy to do - or sit there weighing up the pros/cons of taking action on one of the involved items. What I have found is I can occupy my time entering more items on the list - or doing something that I can falsely give immediate attention to for the time being. Basically now I am looking at ways to avoid the pages with the involved items.
The feeling I get from DIT is a lot different because I have a daily planned workload - that has been almost pre-approved and weeded. To not do an involved action, or not to attempt to do it, without very good reason. Means I have not followed my plan. I think to an extent I do like the adage 'plan your work' - 'work your plan'. In a way I feel more compelled to at least make a start and that is normally the first hurdle.
I realise that weeding in AF can be done, but again we are dealing with a long list and not a daily list. So I have certainly found a tendency to keep trivial items 'in case' I get to a particular page and hit the wall again. Trivial items on my daily list are removed as a matter of course. With a view to keeping as much time available as possible for anything 'same day urgent' that might crop up. With AF they are staying - almost like a type of safety net.
I don't think the system itself is at fault in any way - it is down to my own personality type and the problems I have had in the past with procrastination. DIT gives me a daily structure - a framework for the day - which I combine with the Now Habit Unschedule. I don't get the same feeling from AF - I get the feeling of a never ending day. I would have to frame the day by some other means outside of AF itself - even with the Unschedule in place. I suppose in other words I need to know the planned workload for the day so I can plan and make adjustments overall. Which is why I think DIT suits me better because of the structure it imposes.
All the best
Steve
January 12, 2009 at 15:50 |
Steve Wynn
Steve Wynn
Steve:
As I said before, I have absolutely no quarrel if you prefer DIT. But I worry that you are taking too intellectual an approach to AF. When you say "items that shouldn't be legitimately dismissed", that sounds like a rational assessment which is getting in the way of working the system properly.
If no items stand out for you on a page, then you should dismiss them. But it's important to have followed the instructions first, i.e. read quickly through the page and then consider each item individually to see if it "stands out" for you.
If you've done that right, then you should dismiss items without a qualm. Remember that dismissal is an invitation to consider why you have dismissed it. Does it really need to be done at all, or can it be rephrased or broken down in some way?
As I said before, I have absolutely no quarrel if you prefer DIT. But I worry that you are taking too intellectual an approach to AF. When you say "items that shouldn't be legitimately dismissed", that sounds like a rational assessment which is getting in the way of working the system properly.
If no items stand out for you on a page, then you should dismiss them. But it's important to have followed the instructions first, i.e. read quickly through the page and then consider each item individually to see if it "stands out" for you.
If you've done that right, then you should dismiss items without a qualm. Remember that dismissal is an invitation to consider why you have dismissed it. Does it really need to be done at all, or can it be rephrased or broken down in some way?
January 12, 2009 at 16:11 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
You may be right - OK I will give it a try without thinking too much about the dismissal aspect and see if it makes a difference.
All the best
Steve
All the best
Steve
January 12, 2009 at 16:17 |
Steve Wynn
Steve Wynn
Mark,
"... on one of the early pages, there are no easy tasks to do."
That was a light bulb moment. Yeah, that is how the system WORKS. The tasks naturally get harder and harder (as it were) until you are up against it. You then have to face your reasons for thinking you have to do the task and how it might be "managed", i.e. broken into simpler tasks or incentiveized, etc.
Maybe this is another area that should be covered in more detail in the future. I have not confronted this problem yet but I'll probably develop a personal rule of some kind. Perhaps something like: "Go back to the goal or reason for wanting to do this item and review the benefits I perceived when I decided I wanted to do it in the first place. Spend at least 10 minutes considering each task that way before dismissing the page."
Just a thought for when it happens to me.
"... on one of the early pages, there are no easy tasks to do."
That was a light bulb moment. Yeah, that is how the system WORKS. The tasks naturally get harder and harder (as it were) until you are up against it. You then have to face your reasons for thinking you have to do the task and how it might be "managed", i.e. broken into simpler tasks or incentiveized, etc.
Maybe this is another area that should be covered in more detail in the future. I have not confronted this problem yet but I'll probably develop a personal rule of some kind. Perhaps something like: "Go back to the goal or reason for wanting to do this item and review the benefits I perceived when I decided I wanted to do it in the first place. Spend at least 10 minutes considering each task that way before dismissing the page."
Just a thought for when it happens to me.
January 12, 2009 at 18:33 |
Mike
Mike
Hi Mike
You may want to check out the following thread
http://www.markforster.net/forum/post/623288
Includes a few pointers on this subject
You may want to check out the following thread
http://www.markforster.net/forum/post/623288
Includes a few pointers on this subject
January 12, 2009 at 19:04 |
Christine B
Christine B
When you've boiled down a page and only have the hard items left, I've found it really helpful to use a timer and set to 5 minutes and start cracking open a really hard task. Just do it for 5 minutes. Just LOOK at it for 5 minutes, if nothing else. Open the file. Read the email. Whatever. Just 5 minutes.
If that's too hard, then set the timer for *one* minute.
This approach makes a huge difference for me.
If that's too hard, then set the timer for *one* minute.
This approach makes a huge difference for me.
January 12, 2009 at 22:06 |
Seraphim
Seraphim
Also, you can add duplicate easy/quick/fun items now and then onto your last page. For example, I think I've got four or five occurrences of the "Check Autofocus forum" peppered across my 26 active pages. It shows up pretty frequently as I work my way through. Eventually they start bunching together, as I copy them forward to the last page. So, when I start seeing more than one on the same page, I eliminate the dups, but in the meantime, it creates a built-in little break that keeps me motivated.
January 12, 2009 at 22:09 |
Seraphim
Seraphim
I'm not sure why lack of daily structure should be seen as a problem in AF.
Scheduled tasks are done outside AF. Structural activities/routines are scheduled activities. They would take place outside AF. AF is about stuff that does not have to be scheduled like this, but there is no reason why AF cannot be scheduled into certain hours of the day (at least if you have very regular/predictable days).
Of course, if you believe that you need every activity timetabled, then AF cannot work for you.
Scheduled tasks are done outside AF. Structural activities/routines are scheduled activities. They would take place outside AF. AF is about stuff that does not have to be scheduled like this, but there is no reason why AF cannot be scheduled into certain hours of the day (at least if you have very regular/predictable days).
Of course, if you believe that you need every activity timetabled, then AF cannot work for you.
January 12, 2009 at 22:40 |
Dm
Dm
@Steve:
Same here. When I'm done with the easy tasks and there's only the real work left, I'm in danger of quitting the whole Autofocus system itself and start procrastinating.
I'm working with what I call "hybrid" between DIT and AF now (which is maybe a bit highbrow, for it's more DIT than AF), which works pretty fine for me: http://www.markforster.net/forum/post/626451
Same here. When I'm done with the easy tasks and there's only the real work left, I'm in danger of quitting the whole Autofocus system itself and start procrastinating.
I'm working with what I call "hybrid" between DIT and AF now (which is maybe a bit highbrow, for it's more DIT than AF), which works pretty fine for me: http://www.markforster.net/forum/post/626451
January 12, 2009 at 22:52 |
M. Romer
M. Romer
I wonder if it wouldn't help for some people to keep a "Same Day Urgent" list in addition to the normal list; especially thinking of people (like myself) who get wrapped up in a single task for hours on end and don't always move very quickly through their pages. Anything not done by day's end should just be copied to the master list, but this "extra" list would allow truly urgent items to get watched separately.
January 13, 2009 at 0:06 |
Kevin Roth
Kevin Roth
I agree that some people (probably including me) need a Today list (somedays at least - when scheduled activities take nearly all the time). Shouldn't be needed by people who get through all their pages several times a day, but is for others. I also think that for some of us that would need to include tasks with a deadline a few days hence, because there won't always be time to do everything today.
January 13, 2009 at 0:27 |
Dm
Dm
If I am not turning my pages over reasonably quickly (which may because of spending a longer time on one or two items, or just because of a lack of discretionary time in any one day) then I just try to do a minimal number of items per page to pass through them and catch up. I try to do at least one pass through all active pages per day to be sure I am aware of all deadlined tasks.
January 13, 2009 at 0:53 |
Christine B
Christine B
Even with dismissing items I am still having issues - I am not sure dismissing them because I don't feel like doing them is probably the best option. I try and kid myself that is not the reason that I just need to revaluate etc, but being honest I just don't want or feel like doing them. I just appear to have an almost built-in resistance to this list as a whole.
I tried on paper to see if the electronic solution was the problem - but if anything that made it worse. I am resisting the list for some reason that I can't put my finger on. Possibly because I get no sense of completion from this list - I haven't even finished a page yet.
Now perhaps if I was coming direct from something like GTD the feel of Autofocus would be better. At the moment I am finding it difficult to go from what I consider structure with the DIT method - to a very free form type of method with Autofocus.
Although each unit/page is a in essence a Closed List - it really just feels like one big list to me, that is growing (due to my inability to get things working correctly). I also don't feel that each individual page is a separate Closed List - because a lot of the actions wouldn't normally make it on to one of my normal Closed Lists using DIT. But they do now because of the whole change in timeframe. Which I think is an important consideration. With DIT I am mostly concerned with Today/Tomorrow - with Autofocus I have no time period defined. My focus to an extent is widened, today onwards.
Part of the problem may be I am not totally convinced about structured procrastination. I view procrastination as a habit that I am trying to break. In a way feeding the habit doesn't for the most part seem or feel right. Which perhaps is making me overcautious with regards to the system as a whole. Not being convinced about structured procrastination, I do not not in effect I suppose - trust the system. Which may be a reason it is not working for me.
All the best
Steve
I tried on paper to see if the electronic solution was the problem - but if anything that made it worse. I am resisting the list for some reason that I can't put my finger on. Possibly because I get no sense of completion from this list - I haven't even finished a page yet.
Now perhaps if I was coming direct from something like GTD the feel of Autofocus would be better. At the moment I am finding it difficult to go from what I consider structure with the DIT method - to a very free form type of method with Autofocus.
Although each unit/page is a in essence a Closed List - it really just feels like one big list to me, that is growing (due to my inability to get things working correctly). I also don't feel that each individual page is a separate Closed List - because a lot of the actions wouldn't normally make it on to one of my normal Closed Lists using DIT. But they do now because of the whole change in timeframe. Which I think is an important consideration. With DIT I am mostly concerned with Today/Tomorrow - with Autofocus I have no time period defined. My focus to an extent is widened, today onwards.
Part of the problem may be I am not totally convinced about structured procrastination. I view procrastination as a habit that I am trying to break. In a way feeding the habit doesn't for the most part seem or feel right. Which perhaps is making me overcautious with regards to the system as a whole. Not being convinced about structured procrastination, I do not not in effect I suppose - trust the system. Which may be a reason it is not working for me.
All the best
Steve
January 13, 2009 at 3:08 |
Steve Wynn
Steve Wynn
@Steve
You said: "Part of the problem may be I am not totally convinced about structured procrastination. I view procrastination as a habit that I am trying to break."
I guess there are at least two definitions of procrastination out there that get mixed up more often. One is a more problematic, psychological problem that starts with connecting a goal or task with personal happiness (self-esteem = accomplishment of sth.) and may end in some kind of depression. You mentioned Neil Fiore's Now-Habit somewhere, he talks a lot about that.
The other definition shows itself when people think that they are "lazy" and can't accomplish what they are intended to do. That is perfectly normal - no one is a productivity machine. Here your self-esteem and personal happiness depends not on goal in the same way it does in the first definition.
Maybe these are two sides of the same coin, but there is definately a difference in quality. I guess "structured procrastination" may help overcome the second definition - but by no means the first one. For the first one a cognitive behavioural approach (like Neil Fiore's concepts to overcome procrastination) may help.
You said: "Part of the problem may be I am not totally convinced about structured procrastination. I view procrastination as a habit that I am trying to break."
I guess there are at least two definitions of procrastination out there that get mixed up more often. One is a more problematic, psychological problem that starts with connecting a goal or task with personal happiness (self-esteem = accomplishment of sth.) and may end in some kind of depression. You mentioned Neil Fiore's Now-Habit somewhere, he talks a lot about that.
The other definition shows itself when people think that they are "lazy" and can't accomplish what they are intended to do. That is perfectly normal - no one is a productivity machine. Here your self-esteem and personal happiness depends not on goal in the same way it does in the first definition.
Maybe these are two sides of the same coin, but there is definately a difference in quality. I guess "structured procrastination" may help overcome the second definition - but by no means the first one. For the first one a cognitive behavioural approach (like Neil Fiore's concepts to overcome procrastination) may help.
January 13, 2009 at 9:53 |
M. Romer
M. Romer
Hi Steve,
We have talked before on one of the GtD lists about this. You seem to come back to this point again and again. I sense some real frustration over your procrastination. I get that. I also sense that you are on a quest for the perfect system that will force you to get everything done. I get that, though I know that no such system will ever exist.
You said that you don't like the idea of dismissing tasks because you don't "feel like doing them". I agree, but that is not the rule here. You dismiss tasks when there is no task on a page that you intuitively know you are going to do. (Or words to that effect.) You have been through that page any number of times, passing over the task. On each pass you have looked at the task harder and harder, presumably, as you struggled to get started on it. At SOME point you need to face the fact that you are simply NOT going to do it ... even if someone held a gun to your head. ;-)
I sense that you are balking at that idea because you somehow feel that you SHOULD do the task. Why? That is the question that this system will force you to answer. If there is a "why", then you'll do it. If not, then there is also no "should". The only thing any of us really MUST do in this life is die! All else is optional, if we are willing to accept the consequences. ;-)
I suggest that you first examine your attitude toward your goals. In GtD, IIRC, you had a big issue with the idea of "someday/maybe". That is the same struggle, it seems to me. We all have "dreams" and for some of us those masquerade as "goals" ... but they are not really. How can we tell? Because we don't take action when we have the opportunity. That is what distinguishes a "dream" from a "goal". Dreams are no less important than goals ... who has not dreamed of being a rock star or famous person of some kind? The problem occurs when we fail to realize that something is a dream and not a goal.
Every time management system I've read addresses this issue. The earliest simple 10 item TODO list with the single rule: "Start at the top and don't stop until you reach the bottom and they are all done." also has the rule to be sure that you only put things on that list that you are comitted to doing.
If you want the AF method to be totally automatic (in that you do everything and dismiss nothing) then you need to impose a pre-filter to limit what goes on the list in the first place. Which is to say, you need to do better planning and filter out "dreams" before they hit your list.
Or, you could just follow the rule and "dismiss" them when it becomes clear that they represent dreams and not goals. If you are totally convinced that an item represents a goal, and you don't want to do it, then you simply have to directly address your motivation in some way. Break the task down ... get some help ... delegate it ... whatever works for you ;-) But when it is staring you in the face you only have one choice, in any system: do it or not! If not, then there is no point in carrying it further. Set it down and move on with your life. You are just not going to do it.
Just my read on it this morning ;-)
We have talked before on one of the GtD lists about this. You seem to come back to this point again and again. I sense some real frustration over your procrastination. I get that. I also sense that you are on a quest for the perfect system that will force you to get everything done. I get that, though I know that no such system will ever exist.
You said that you don't like the idea of dismissing tasks because you don't "feel like doing them". I agree, but that is not the rule here. You dismiss tasks when there is no task on a page that you intuitively know you are going to do. (Or words to that effect.) You have been through that page any number of times, passing over the task. On each pass you have looked at the task harder and harder, presumably, as you struggled to get started on it. At SOME point you need to face the fact that you are simply NOT going to do it ... even if someone held a gun to your head. ;-)
I sense that you are balking at that idea because you somehow feel that you SHOULD do the task. Why? That is the question that this system will force you to answer. If there is a "why", then you'll do it. If not, then there is also no "should". The only thing any of us really MUST do in this life is die! All else is optional, if we are willing to accept the consequences. ;-)
I suggest that you first examine your attitude toward your goals. In GtD, IIRC, you had a big issue with the idea of "someday/maybe". That is the same struggle, it seems to me. We all have "dreams" and for some of us those masquerade as "goals" ... but they are not really. How can we tell? Because we don't take action when we have the opportunity. That is what distinguishes a "dream" from a "goal". Dreams are no less important than goals ... who has not dreamed of being a rock star or famous person of some kind? The problem occurs when we fail to realize that something is a dream and not a goal.
Every time management system I've read addresses this issue. The earliest simple 10 item TODO list with the single rule: "Start at the top and don't stop until you reach the bottom and they are all done." also has the rule to be sure that you only put things on that list that you are comitted to doing.
If you want the AF method to be totally automatic (in that you do everything and dismiss nothing) then you need to impose a pre-filter to limit what goes on the list in the first place. Which is to say, you need to do better planning and filter out "dreams" before they hit your list.
Or, you could just follow the rule and "dismiss" them when it becomes clear that they represent dreams and not goals. If you are totally convinced that an item represents a goal, and you don't want to do it, then you simply have to directly address your motivation in some way. Break the task down ... get some help ... delegate it ... whatever works for you ;-) But when it is staring you in the face you only have one choice, in any system: do it or not! If not, then there is no point in carrying it further. Set it down and move on with your life. You are just not going to do it.
Just my read on it this morning ;-)
January 13, 2009 at 10:21 |
Mike
Mike
First question is whether it is really procrastination or just an unconscious choice to use your time differently.
If it is procrastination, then the issue is why. The job seeming too big or too many can make starting hard and systems like this can help that. If it is some internal ambivalence, no system will make things easier since they don't tackle the main issue.
The ideal system is never having more to do than you can keep in your head. Not possible for many of us.
The purpose of any more formal system is to keep hold/track of everything to do, to help you do it in the most productive way and to help you put out of mind (but not necessarily lose) those things you should not (and will not) actually do now, and, ideally, help you make sure that the productivity is in line with your real desires/goals/priorities. Which system will suit you best will depend on the area that you most need help with; eg some people need most help with not forgetting and other with organising the sequence of actions in a project.
AF makes it very easy to note everything and so really works with not forgetting. It also helps you to keep moving through tasks. It has nothing to say about more fundamental organisation/priorities (except rational Vs intuitive) or fixed deadlines that must be watched. Mark refers to those but the system to manage them lies outside AF.
If it is procrastination, then the issue is why. The job seeming too big or too many can make starting hard and systems like this can help that. If it is some internal ambivalence, no system will make things easier since they don't tackle the main issue.
The ideal system is never having more to do than you can keep in your head. Not possible for many of us.
The purpose of any more formal system is to keep hold/track of everything to do, to help you do it in the most productive way and to help you put out of mind (but not necessarily lose) those things you should not (and will not) actually do now, and, ideally, help you make sure that the productivity is in line with your real desires/goals/priorities. Which system will suit you best will depend on the area that you most need help with; eg some people need most help with not forgetting and other with organising the sequence of actions in a project.
AF makes it very easy to note everything and so really works with not forgetting. It also helps you to keep moving through tasks. It has nothing to say about more fundamental organisation/priorities (except rational Vs intuitive) or fixed deadlines that must be watched. Mark refers to those but the system to manage them lies outside AF.
January 13, 2009 at 10:54 |
Dm
Dm
Steve:
With AF you just have to let go of your "oughts" and trust the system. When you've done all the items on a page that you feel like doing, just move onto the next page. Don't get stuck on a page worrying about whether you are procrastinating or not. When you come back to that page, you will find that your resistance to the tasks has diminished and you will feel like doing some of them.
If that doesn't happen and there's nothing on the page you feel like doing, then dismiss them all as per the instructions. Don't get hung up about it.
Leave the dismissed items for a day or so before reviewing them - again as per the instructions.
With AF you just have to let go of your "oughts" and trust the system. When you've done all the items on a page that you feel like doing, just move onto the next page. Don't get stuck on a page worrying about whether you are procrastinating or not. When you come back to that page, you will find that your resistance to the tasks has diminished and you will feel like doing some of them.
If that doesn't happen and there's nothing on the page you feel like doing, then dismiss them all as per the instructions. Don't get hung up about it.
Leave the dismissed items for a day or so before reviewing them - again as per the instructions.
January 13, 2009 at 12:07 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
Steve, the basic effect of procrastination, ignoring all of the emotion surrounding it, is wasting time when you should be doing something productive. With this you have a list (several lists) of items that you need or wish to do. Doing those items is not wasting time. All AF is doing, very simply, is enabling you to change the order of how you do those things. It therefore increases productivity.
You are very unlikely to put true "procrastinators" on your list and will see that items you previously used to procrastinate (and beat yourself up about) were items that needed to be done.
For example you are unlikely to put (as someone else said!) "Mindless Channel Surfing" on your list. However "Watching TV" is a valid means of relation and there is no reason you could not put "watch documentary on Lesser Spotted Dung Beetle" on your list. Best not to watch it in the office tho' :-)
You are very unlikely to put true "procrastinators" on your list and will see that items you previously used to procrastinate (and beat yourself up about) were items that needed to be done.
For example you are unlikely to put (as someone else said!) "Mindless Channel Surfing" on your list. However "Watching TV" is a valid means of relation and there is no reason you could not put "watch documentary on Lesser Spotted Dung Beetle" on your list. Best not to watch it in the office tho' :-)
January 13, 2009 at 12:49 |
Christine B
Christine B
For me procrastination doesn't for the most part revolve around a lack of doing things. It revolves around being a workaholic, perfectionism and basing my self worth in work. The major thing I procrastinate about is items with value or importance. But I have no problem with keeping busy and completing minor/easy tasks - I find it is just another more subtle form of procrastination. I can always find ways to keep myself busy and ignore things that are important.
The difference I find with Autofocus is quite simple - I have made no conscious decision to do the items on the list. Leaving the filtering to the point at which action takes place just leads me to thinking. Thinking itself is part of the problem, filtering at this stage is an issue.
With DIT I make the conscious decision the day before - this is what I am going to do. I do this during my thinking/planning phase at the end of day. My unconscious mind I think to an extent starts to go to work. When I start the next day I know what I am aiming to achieve. Difficult tasks are there but they are there for a reason which has already been thought about (procrastinated about) and the reasons for their inclusion clarified. I still might not want to do them but now what stands between me and doing them is not thought/thinking - just a spur to get started. This I can do utilising various techniques that trick my conscious mind, just get the file out, countdown timers etc.
If I go over a page in Autofocus - I have items that are required to be done I can't get away from the that. They do stand out to me - but not having planned to do them today. My mind doesn't feel ready to do them - I don't feel like doing them. So I go searching for something I don't need to think about.
Planning my work the night before appears to make a huge difference to me - I know if for some reason I can't plan the night before for whatever reason my day never goes as well. With Autofocus there is no plan - just a list of items to work through. I don't trust myself to make the right choices at that point.
I can not get past the feeling I 'ought' to do something. Because to my mind I have to an extent put it there for a reason. Either it needs doing or requires some form of further action/planning/thought. Dismissing is an option but then why is it there in the first place and why was is it not dismissed at source?
I am not really into the habit of recording items that don't need doing - nor am I in the habit of maintaining wish lists or Someday/Maybe lists. This whole area to me is something to be thought about and maintained outside of your action orientated system. To include it within just seems to me like unnecessary clutter from my point of view. To an extent if I record something I do feel a certain level of commitment to at least appraise that item fully - lack of action on my part just because I don't feel like doing it I don't find as a valid reason. I have to ask why did I record it in the first place, what value did that item have at that time. What has changed that it now holds no value. If justification is there for action to be dropped it will be dropped.
My dreams/goals/ambitions filter down to my action lists. I view them as a different area and level of commitment. While an idea is an idea - it remains an idea. Not an undefined action that sits in my working system. When it has been thought about, planned and clarified - perhaps all in my mind. It will be in a state where I can take action and it will be added to the list. I personally like my mind to swim around with ideas - I find during my leisure time I have inspiration, my subconscious mind works on these ideas. I don't agree with the GTD concept of 'mind like water', a blanket capture approach to get everything out of your head. To me ideas need a gestation period - time to grow. The point at which I trust myself and my intuition is the time when I feel it is right to action one of those ideas. At that point it will be recorded in my action system - so to dismiss things - means in essence I am not trusting my intuition. The hurdle I have to overcome is to start taking action - and the best way I see to overcome this one for me is pre-planning work. Hitting it on the fly doesn't for the most part seem to work because of the evaluation that needs to take place - in other words thinking.
I work better when I keep thinking and action time separate. Part of this I believe is due once again to procrastination. I can to an extent give myself permission to procrastinate during my thinking time - because I have no need to take any action. But the wheels fall off if I give myself permission to procrastinate during my action time. For me the two don't mix and part of that is because I do view procrastination as a habit that I am trying my best to break.
All the best
Steve
The difference I find with Autofocus is quite simple - I have made no conscious decision to do the items on the list. Leaving the filtering to the point at which action takes place just leads me to thinking. Thinking itself is part of the problem, filtering at this stage is an issue.
With DIT I make the conscious decision the day before - this is what I am going to do. I do this during my thinking/planning phase at the end of day. My unconscious mind I think to an extent starts to go to work. When I start the next day I know what I am aiming to achieve. Difficult tasks are there but they are there for a reason which has already been thought about (procrastinated about) and the reasons for their inclusion clarified. I still might not want to do them but now what stands between me and doing them is not thought/thinking - just a spur to get started. This I can do utilising various techniques that trick my conscious mind, just get the file out, countdown timers etc.
If I go over a page in Autofocus - I have items that are required to be done I can't get away from the that. They do stand out to me - but not having planned to do them today. My mind doesn't feel ready to do them - I don't feel like doing them. So I go searching for something I don't need to think about.
Planning my work the night before appears to make a huge difference to me - I know if for some reason I can't plan the night before for whatever reason my day never goes as well. With Autofocus there is no plan - just a list of items to work through. I don't trust myself to make the right choices at that point.
I can not get past the feeling I 'ought' to do something. Because to my mind I have to an extent put it there for a reason. Either it needs doing or requires some form of further action/planning/thought. Dismissing is an option but then why is it there in the first place and why was is it not dismissed at source?
I am not really into the habit of recording items that don't need doing - nor am I in the habit of maintaining wish lists or Someday/Maybe lists. This whole area to me is something to be thought about and maintained outside of your action orientated system. To include it within just seems to me like unnecessary clutter from my point of view. To an extent if I record something I do feel a certain level of commitment to at least appraise that item fully - lack of action on my part just because I don't feel like doing it I don't find as a valid reason. I have to ask why did I record it in the first place, what value did that item have at that time. What has changed that it now holds no value. If justification is there for action to be dropped it will be dropped.
My dreams/goals/ambitions filter down to my action lists. I view them as a different area and level of commitment. While an idea is an idea - it remains an idea. Not an undefined action that sits in my working system. When it has been thought about, planned and clarified - perhaps all in my mind. It will be in a state where I can take action and it will be added to the list. I personally like my mind to swim around with ideas - I find during my leisure time I have inspiration, my subconscious mind works on these ideas. I don't agree with the GTD concept of 'mind like water', a blanket capture approach to get everything out of your head. To me ideas need a gestation period - time to grow. The point at which I trust myself and my intuition is the time when I feel it is right to action one of those ideas. At that point it will be recorded in my action system - so to dismiss things - means in essence I am not trusting my intuition. The hurdle I have to overcome is to start taking action - and the best way I see to overcome this one for me is pre-planning work. Hitting it on the fly doesn't for the most part seem to work because of the evaluation that needs to take place - in other words thinking.
I work better when I keep thinking and action time separate. Part of this I believe is due once again to procrastination. I can to an extent give myself permission to procrastinate during my thinking time - because I have no need to take any action. But the wheels fall off if I give myself permission to procrastinate during my action time. For me the two don't mix and part of that is because I do view procrastination as a habit that I am trying my best to break.
All the best
Steve
January 13, 2009 at 15:15 |
Steve Wynn
Steve Wynn
Steve:
The problem with pre-planning is that this is by and large a use of the rational mind on its own. The aim of AF is to put the rational and intuitive parts of the mind into balance so that you make *better* decisions than you would with the rational mind alone.
The problem with pre-planning is that this is by and large a use of the rational mind on its own. The aim of AF is to put the rational and intuitive parts of the mind into balance so that you make *better* decisions than you would with the rational mind alone.
January 13, 2009 at 15:41 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
To me procrastination in chronic forms is your mind being out of balance - too much creativity being at play. I don't know if balance can be obtained in this situation without leaning more towards the rational side of your mind in order to stem that creativity. I have no doubt if balance could be obtained then better decisions overall would be made. But correcting the balance may be greatly dependant on the starting point.
January 13, 2009 at 16:47 |
Steve Wynn
Steve Wynn
Steve:
That may be true for you, but for me when I'm procrastinating the last thing I feel is creative.
That may be true for you, but for me when I'm procrastinating the last thing I feel is creative.
January 13, 2009 at 16:50 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
> I agree it gets to a point where there are no easy tasks...
> Items that shouldn't legitimately be dismissed are on the list - but I don't want to take action on them for whatever reason.
I've taken to cheating the system slightly. When a few pages are down to a few tasks each (fewer than 4), I rewrite the tasks onto a single new page. Then I have the benefits of relative procrastination again, but among the hard tasks. The alternatives are to dismiss them, which is inappropriate, or to get stuck gawping at something that is too hard to do. I am reasonably disciplined at attacking the tasks on the new page.
> Items that shouldn't legitimately be dismissed are on the list - but I don't want to take action on them for whatever reason.
I've taken to cheating the system slightly. When a few pages are down to a few tasks each (fewer than 4), I rewrite the tasks onto a single new page. Then I have the benefits of relative procrastination again, but among the hard tasks. The alternatives are to dismiss them, which is inappropriate, or to get stuck gawping at something that is too hard to do. I am reasonably disciplined at attacking the tasks on the new page.
January 13, 2009 at 16:57 |
David C
David C
So it gradually comes down to the hardest of the hardest of the hard ;-)
January 13, 2009 at 17:04 |
Dm
Dm
David:
What's inappropriate about dismissing them?
What's inappropriate about dismissing them?
January 13, 2009 at 17:36 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
I'll earn the disapproval of my business partners if I dismiss these tasks.
January 13, 2009 at 18:01 |
David C
David C
Why don't you start working on them ("little and often")?
January 13, 2009 at 18:09 |
Christian Gärtner
Christian Gärtner
Steve,
I think Mark is right that DIT is very rational. I think that's one serious problem I had with it. Rationally, I saw that I really couldn't do much of anything outside of my regular commitments. Every night when I pre-planned my work, I found myself feeling depressed that I couldn't expect to get much more than basic housework and childcare done. For me, AF allows me to keep hope alive which in turn motivates me to get more done. If I know I shouldn't expect to get more than the most mundane tasks done, what motivation do I have to speed through them? But with AF, I know that there's a good chance I will have the opportunity to do things my creative side really wants to do. And I find that there are some mundane tasks that I really don't have to do at the intervals I thought I did.
I think you are wanting to be somewhat of a strict parent with your creative side (the side that likes to procrastinate). Very strict parenting can work in the short term. But at some point, the rebellion comes and it hits hard. You start throwing tasks out because you've just had it! Is AF overly permissive? I don't think so. At first there can be a "Hooray, I'm off my diet!" syndrome where you spend most of your time doing fun, easy things. But who's to say that isn't providing a healthy balance? I firmly believe that if you're going to blow off important tasks in AF, you would have blown them off using any system.
The only potential difficulty I am having (which quite honestly I had before!) is dealing with tasks that have a deadline. I find myself sometimes doing lots of tasks on various pages out of order simply because they have to be done now. I am trying not to be concerned about that and just continue through the list as usual after the deadline has passed.
Ultimately, Steve, you have to use the system that works best for you. I wish there were a perfect system, but perhaps if there were, I'd be too imperfect to use it. LOL I do thank you for sharing your thoughts as they're always interesting!
I think Mark is right that DIT is very rational. I think that's one serious problem I had with it. Rationally, I saw that I really couldn't do much of anything outside of my regular commitments. Every night when I pre-planned my work, I found myself feeling depressed that I couldn't expect to get much more than basic housework and childcare done. For me, AF allows me to keep hope alive which in turn motivates me to get more done. If I know I shouldn't expect to get more than the most mundane tasks done, what motivation do I have to speed through them? But with AF, I know that there's a good chance I will have the opportunity to do things my creative side really wants to do. And I find that there are some mundane tasks that I really don't have to do at the intervals I thought I did.
I think you are wanting to be somewhat of a strict parent with your creative side (the side that likes to procrastinate). Very strict parenting can work in the short term. But at some point, the rebellion comes and it hits hard. You start throwing tasks out because you've just had it! Is AF overly permissive? I don't think so. At first there can be a "Hooray, I'm off my diet!" syndrome where you spend most of your time doing fun, easy things. But who's to say that isn't providing a healthy balance? I firmly believe that if you're going to blow off important tasks in AF, you would have blown them off using any system.
The only potential difficulty I am having (which quite honestly I had before!) is dealing with tasks that have a deadline. I find myself sometimes doing lots of tasks on various pages out of order simply because they have to be done now. I am trying not to be concerned about that and just continue through the list as usual after the deadline has passed.
Ultimately, Steve, you have to use the system that works best for you. I wish there were a perfect system, but perhaps if there were, I'd be too imperfect to use it. LOL I do thank you for sharing your thoughts as they're always interesting!
January 13, 2009 at 18:12 |
Mel
Mel
Procrastination itself can be very rewarding. I do enjoy procrastinating to an extent, because at that time I allow the creative side to come out. My mind is free to go off on its own path regardless of structure or boundaries. But I have identified my procrastination patterns through keeping a procrastination log. My procrastination is linked strongly with creativity. For others that might not be the case.
I think we may all agree that procrastination is a response to further underlying problems. It can be a response to many different things, fear of failure, fear of success, fear of having our self worth held up for judgement, perfectionism. It can be linked to one or many issues.
For some procrastination is simply the inability to act. We all procrastinate in that way at some time, there is no doubt about that. But what impact and what hold it has over you as a learned habit is another thing. Some people smoke and can quit that habit easily. For other's it has more of a psychological hold and they can not quit. Like that type of habit, procrastination to my mind has it's degree's.
Procrastinator's do not procrastinate about everything. Things they enjoy they will do without question. On the face of it structured procrastination has merit as a form of self deception. But I think it might depend on the degree to which the habit has a hold on the individual.
I think we may all agree that procrastination is a response to further underlying problems. It can be a response to many different things, fear of failure, fear of success, fear of having our self worth held up for judgement, perfectionism. It can be linked to one or many issues.
For some procrastination is simply the inability to act. We all procrastinate in that way at some time, there is no doubt about that. But what impact and what hold it has over you as a learned habit is another thing. Some people smoke and can quit that habit easily. For other's it has more of a psychological hold and they can not quit. Like that type of habit, procrastination to my mind has it's degree's.
Procrastinator's do not procrastinate about everything. Things they enjoy they will do without question. On the face of it structured procrastination has merit as a form of self deception. But I think it might depend on the degree to which the habit has a hold on the individual.
January 13, 2009 at 18:46 |
Steve Wynn
Steve Wynn
Steve, I can really relate to a number of your comments but it seems to me that your real concern is the fact that AF "feels" uncomfortable in that for you it goes against the way that you believe things "ought" to be done. A couple of things you have said really stand out -
"To me procrastination in chronic forms is your mind being out of balance - too much creativity being at play. I don't know if balance can be obtained in this situation without leaning more towards the rational side of your mind in order to stem that creativity. I have no doubt if balance could be obtained then better decisions overall would be made. But correcting the balance may be greatly dependant on the starting point."
As Mark said, when you're procrastinating the last thing you feel is creative! Procrastination is definitely not a result of creativity - it is a result of not wanting to do something. The reason we don't want to do it is largely irrelevant to our ability to procrastinate on it but is *very* rarely the result of being unable to do it. From what you say, every time you do something (anything) that is not as important as something else, you believe you are procrastinating. That is simply not true. If you don't do the washing up you will run out of dishes. Washing up is less important than your tax return but you need to do both! It does not matter which order you do them in but if you do them when you want to it will be easier, less stressful and probably achieved before 31 January rather than 11:59 on that date!
If you look at "washing the dishes" as a procrastinator, every time you wash them you will be thinking "I should be doing x ...." Being able to think "oh, yes, I Need to wash the dishes" gets a job out of the way, without guilt, and gives you time to think productively (maybe plan your tax return) rather than beating yourself up about washing the dishes.
"I know if for some reason I can't plan the night before for whatever reason my day never goes as well."
You are linking a belief that if you don't plan, the day will not go well. Whilst that is your belief you will forever be trying to support that belief, which is almost setting you up to fail. I would venture to suggest that at the end of the day you will be thinking that everything you feel you "ought" to have achieved but didn't is somehow "your fault" because you did not plan well enough. There are obviously things that *must* be done at specific times but often not as many as we may believe.
However, one of the first things you said was
"For me procrastination doesn't for the most part revolve around a lack of doing things. It revolves around being a workaholic, perfectionism and basing my self worth in work. The major thing I procrastinate about is items with value or importance."
Perfectionism (which frequently results in being a workaholic & creating an identity in work) can totally mess up our perception of the true value or importance of items. For example, perfectionism may say "this room must be completely tidy, not a thing out of place etc etc". So what happens? We create tasks to ensure that the room is hoovered at least every day, (more if a speck of dust appears), that the table is polished daily, the windows are cleaned daily and so on and so on. But of course there is always something else to do .... so we get busier and busier and more and more anxious till one day we just decide that, rather than being unrealistic, it is just that we are useless. The next step is to give up completely, allow the room to degenerate into chaos and find other tasks. We are just "too busy" to deal with it. Interestingly those tasks that we once felt vital can then be seen as procrastinators themselves .................
Remember that AF is intuitive and our learned rational responses can really get in the way. It really is hard to do that because it does go against "conventional wisdom" But then if conventional wisdom had worked for us in the past we would not be reading this forum ........... :-) Don't be so hard on yourself - give yourself permission to enjoy life. Good luck!
"To me procrastination in chronic forms is your mind being out of balance - too much creativity being at play. I don't know if balance can be obtained in this situation without leaning more towards the rational side of your mind in order to stem that creativity. I have no doubt if balance could be obtained then better decisions overall would be made. But correcting the balance may be greatly dependant on the starting point."
As Mark said, when you're procrastinating the last thing you feel is creative! Procrastination is definitely not a result of creativity - it is a result of not wanting to do something. The reason we don't want to do it is largely irrelevant to our ability to procrastinate on it but is *very* rarely the result of being unable to do it. From what you say, every time you do something (anything) that is not as important as something else, you believe you are procrastinating. That is simply not true. If you don't do the washing up you will run out of dishes. Washing up is less important than your tax return but you need to do both! It does not matter which order you do them in but if you do them when you want to it will be easier, less stressful and probably achieved before 31 January rather than 11:59 on that date!
If you look at "washing the dishes" as a procrastinator, every time you wash them you will be thinking "I should be doing x ...." Being able to think "oh, yes, I Need to wash the dishes" gets a job out of the way, without guilt, and gives you time to think productively (maybe plan your tax return) rather than beating yourself up about washing the dishes.
"I know if for some reason I can't plan the night before for whatever reason my day never goes as well."
You are linking a belief that if you don't plan, the day will not go well. Whilst that is your belief you will forever be trying to support that belief, which is almost setting you up to fail. I would venture to suggest that at the end of the day you will be thinking that everything you feel you "ought" to have achieved but didn't is somehow "your fault" because you did not plan well enough. There are obviously things that *must* be done at specific times but often not as many as we may believe.
However, one of the first things you said was
"For me procrastination doesn't for the most part revolve around a lack of doing things. It revolves around being a workaholic, perfectionism and basing my self worth in work. The major thing I procrastinate about is items with value or importance."
Perfectionism (which frequently results in being a workaholic & creating an identity in work) can totally mess up our perception of the true value or importance of items. For example, perfectionism may say "this room must be completely tidy, not a thing out of place etc etc". So what happens? We create tasks to ensure that the room is hoovered at least every day, (more if a speck of dust appears), that the table is polished daily, the windows are cleaned daily and so on and so on. But of course there is always something else to do .... so we get busier and busier and more and more anxious till one day we just decide that, rather than being unrealistic, it is just that we are useless. The next step is to give up completely, allow the room to degenerate into chaos and find other tasks. We are just "too busy" to deal with it. Interestingly those tasks that we once felt vital can then be seen as procrastinators themselves .................
Remember that AF is intuitive and our learned rational responses can really get in the way. It really is hard to do that because it does go against "conventional wisdom" But then if conventional wisdom had worked for us in the past we would not be reading this forum ........... :-) Don't be so hard on yourself - give yourself permission to enjoy life. Good luck!
January 13, 2009 at 18:55 |
Christine B
Christine B
A couple of comments here.
"Procrastination" is simply putting something off. There is nothing in the term that speaks to why we do it ... and there are quite a few reasons we might procrastinate. I have some rather heavy books around here going into the many reasons. I can say from experience that MOST of the time it is due to overwhelm, but not always. And almost always it is, as Mark points out, relative. IOW, we almost never procrastinate task A in favor of nothing else. (The closest we get to it is going to sleep instead and that is more usually indicative of depression.)
Given that most of the reason is overwhelm and most often it is relative, AF answers the problem very neatly, I think. AF has a built in mechanism to force confrontation ... "dismissal". The thought of dismissing items builds pressure. It is a kind of giving up, or quitting, that most of us won't tolerate in ourselves ... so we try harder. Mostly that comes down to restructuring the task, breaking it down into smaller parts one of which we CAN do at the moment. In the case of overwhelm, this almost always works (as best I can tell).
So what I'm getting at is the whole process of facing the tension (shame if you really want to get into it ;-) of dismissing a page is the mechanism by which we are FORCED to get serious about things. Do I want this or not??? If I really do, then HOW the HELL do I get started on it??? And if I really do NOT want to do this, than the procrastination was really in putting a red herring on the list in the first place so getting it off of the list answers that as well!
Dismissing tasks is not a problem with AF, it is an ingenious and automatic way of forcing a confrontation to break the log jam.
As to Steve's comment about priming the mind. Yeah, I get that. However, all you really need do is flip open the list before you go to bed, scan through it and make some decisions about things. Or even not make decisions but let your subconscious start working overnight as you sleep. Don't worry that what you really want to get to is a page ahead ... you'll get there sometime tomorrow ... most likely many times tomorrow and within the first hour or so. Or if it is THAT important, highlight it and pick it out of its turn. The world won't end. The AF police won't come with lights flashing and sirens wailing.
Remember Marks #1 rule (well, I don't know if Mark has numbered it #1, but I certainly have ;-) ... USE COMMON SENSE. If you are going to be fired if you don't get an item done that is three pages ahead ... don't wait ... start on it next. Hell, don't go to bed, go back into work and start on it ;-)
On the best system to use ... there is no BEST system ... only systems that work. And most likely no one else's system will work for you EXACTLY as described. The best system is your system. Steve agonizes over these systems for reasons of his own. And I'm not that different, I just don't do it with such flair and gusto ;-) I have messed with tweaking systems for many years. But all of my systems have had certain features in common: things are written in list format, the more important are calendared or highlighted, I separate planning from execution, I try to make my goals or objectives "well formed", I try to keep my actions small, and I don't obsess over wording and am willing to call a project an action if I am pretty clear about what I mean. AF has most of these features and I will add my other ways of working to my implementation of it.
I think that with GtD I got my first view of how various people approach new systems. I could probably list categories of approaches. Something like:
- "This is great. It works perfectly."
- "I like this, let's write a program for it or put it into X software."
- "This would never work for me because I'm different."
- "It is a great system but it is not perfect and I want the perfect one."
- "I love it but it needs 67 modifications."
- Etc. ;-)
But that just reflects who we are. The person who rejects one system might well be the same person who finds the next system perfect. Who knows? ;-)
"Procrastination" is simply putting something off. There is nothing in the term that speaks to why we do it ... and there are quite a few reasons we might procrastinate. I have some rather heavy books around here going into the many reasons. I can say from experience that MOST of the time it is due to overwhelm, but not always. And almost always it is, as Mark points out, relative. IOW, we almost never procrastinate task A in favor of nothing else. (The closest we get to it is going to sleep instead and that is more usually indicative of depression.)
Given that most of the reason is overwhelm and most often it is relative, AF answers the problem very neatly, I think. AF has a built in mechanism to force confrontation ... "dismissal". The thought of dismissing items builds pressure. It is a kind of giving up, or quitting, that most of us won't tolerate in ourselves ... so we try harder. Mostly that comes down to restructuring the task, breaking it down into smaller parts one of which we CAN do at the moment. In the case of overwhelm, this almost always works (as best I can tell).
So what I'm getting at is the whole process of facing the tension (shame if you really want to get into it ;-) of dismissing a page is the mechanism by which we are FORCED to get serious about things. Do I want this or not??? If I really do, then HOW the HELL do I get started on it??? And if I really do NOT want to do this, than the procrastination was really in putting a red herring on the list in the first place so getting it off of the list answers that as well!
Dismissing tasks is not a problem with AF, it is an ingenious and automatic way of forcing a confrontation to break the log jam.
As to Steve's comment about priming the mind. Yeah, I get that. However, all you really need do is flip open the list before you go to bed, scan through it and make some decisions about things. Or even not make decisions but let your subconscious start working overnight as you sleep. Don't worry that what you really want to get to is a page ahead ... you'll get there sometime tomorrow ... most likely many times tomorrow and within the first hour or so. Or if it is THAT important, highlight it and pick it out of its turn. The world won't end. The AF police won't come with lights flashing and sirens wailing.
Remember Marks #1 rule (well, I don't know if Mark has numbered it #1, but I certainly have ;-) ... USE COMMON SENSE. If you are going to be fired if you don't get an item done that is three pages ahead ... don't wait ... start on it next. Hell, don't go to bed, go back into work and start on it ;-)
On the best system to use ... there is no BEST system ... only systems that work. And most likely no one else's system will work for you EXACTLY as described. The best system is your system. Steve agonizes over these systems for reasons of his own. And I'm not that different, I just don't do it with such flair and gusto ;-) I have messed with tweaking systems for many years. But all of my systems have had certain features in common: things are written in list format, the more important are calendared or highlighted, I separate planning from execution, I try to make my goals or objectives "well formed", I try to keep my actions small, and I don't obsess over wording and am willing to call a project an action if I am pretty clear about what I mean. AF has most of these features and I will add my other ways of working to my implementation of it.
I think that with GtD I got my first view of how various people approach new systems. I could probably list categories of approaches. Something like:
- "This is great. It works perfectly."
- "I like this, let's write a program for it or put it into X software."
- "This would never work for me because I'm different."
- "It is a great system but it is not perfect and I want the perfect one."
- "I love it but it needs 67 modifications."
- Etc. ;-)
But that just reflects who we are. The person who rejects one system might well be the same person who finds the next system perfect. Who knows? ;-)
January 13, 2009 at 19:20 |
Mike
Mike
David C:
Yes, but "dismissing" a task doesn't mean never doing it. It means looking at why you are resisting it and seeing if you can break it down or rephrase it or even reframe it in some way. Or possibly questioning why you are trying to do it in the first place.
Yes, but "dismissing" a task doesn't mean never doing it. It means looking at why you are resisting it and seeing if you can break it down or rephrase it or even reframe it in some way. Or possibly questioning why you are trying to do it in the first place.
January 13, 2009 at 23:00 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
Mike:
One thing in what you wrote stands out for me, and that is the recommendation to read through the entire list before you go to bed. That is an excellent way of priming the mind.
One thing in what you wrote stands out for me, and that is the recommendation to read through the entire list before you go to bed. That is an excellent way of priming the mind.
January 13, 2009 at 23:08 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
Having thought about it, I don't really understand the links between AF and procrastination.
AF is just a set of lists of future actions and a simple system of sequencing those actions. It is believed that the frequent reviews reduce any resistance an item produces.
It gives few opportunities for procrastination; either not using AF at all or taking far too much time reviewing items on a page. It can't really be blamed for the former. The latter leads to a number of options to reduce resistance (eg rephrase/reframe the item; break the item into smaller items - both of which lead the item to be crossed out and rewritten on the last page). And then, if nothing works, that failure is accepted and the item is dismissed and placed somewhere else out of the action list where it can be ignored or cogitated over according to preference. It allows an intuitive/rationalising balance but it does not have a system for tackling deep seated resistance to an item (or all items) - that needs to be done out of the system; this should make it productive and flow easily, but it won't deal with everything.
AF is just a set of lists of future actions and a simple system of sequencing those actions. It is believed that the frequent reviews reduce any resistance an item produces.
It gives few opportunities for procrastination; either not using AF at all or taking far too much time reviewing items on a page. It can't really be blamed for the former. The latter leads to a number of options to reduce resistance (eg rephrase/reframe the item; break the item into smaller items - both of which lead the item to be crossed out and rewritten on the last page). And then, if nothing works, that failure is accepted and the item is dismissed and placed somewhere else out of the action list where it can be ignored or cogitated over according to preference. It allows an intuitive/rationalising balance but it does not have a system for tackling deep seated resistance to an item (or all items) - that needs to be done out of the system; this should make it productive and flow easily, but it won't deal with everything.
January 14, 2009 at 1:39 |
Dm
Dm
Mark,
your brief comment on 'dismissing items' baffled me.
I always understood it differently.
When I initially read the instructions, and followed the discussions, it never came to my mind that those items would need to be specially examined.
How should this be done? And what rules and procedure should be followed?
Maybe you could elaborate on this in an additional blog article? I think this is a crucial point in the system.
--
Alex
your brief comment on 'dismissing items' baffled me.
I always understood it differently.
When I initially read the instructions, and followed the discussions, it never came to my mind that those items would need to be specially examined.
How should this be done? And what rules and procedure should be followed?
Maybe you could elaborate on this in an additional blog article? I think this is a crucial point in the system.
--
Alex
January 14, 2009 at 2:11 |
Alex W.
Alex W.
More often than not the critical side of the mind gets in the way of the creative side of the mind. For some releasing the creative side allows them to then utilise the critical side to organise, arrange and resolve things. For others it is the reverse - the creative side can get it the way of the critical side.
The problem as I fundamentally see it is how to achieve a balance or a flow - so that each part is utilised when they are required. For me to get balance I need to know when, where and on what to start. This allows me to achieve balance. In other words structure gives me balance.
Procrastination for some may not be a creative a process, but I find it amazingly creative. I am in effect talking down my common sense and my logical mind. I am coming up with varied reasons how I can do something, that avoids actually doing it. I can come up with various reasons not to do something. All of it defies logic as I see it and it is all done to fool the rational mind, to continuously do this requires a high degree of creativity. The rational mind knows it might only take 15 minutes to complete the task - but by the time the creative side has had a pop it looks to be three years work. Which I agree does then link to a sense of overwhelm.
Procrastination can be boiled down to quite simply putting something off. But that to me is a simplistic view of procrastination. I haven't always procrastinated - it is a learned habit. I don't procrastinate about things that I love and enjoy. The underlying reasons I procrastinate are many and varied. Perfectionism and endless polishing is just one of them. Previously having my self worth tied to work is another. Fear of success and failure, yet another. It is a way to rebel against authority and it is a way to signify resentment. At the same time as an avoidance technique it is in itself rewarding because it is used in a protective manner, a way to keep your self worth from being challenged.
For me the way I have found to combat - combat I feel being an operative word here - procrastination. Is by utilising structure and various techniques. The more structure, boundaries and limits I impose the better. But I do view myself as a chronic procrastinator. Though I don't view procrastination as the problem but rather a symptom of other problems. Procrastination is just a way that these other problems manifest themselves.
Now to me personally structure is a useful tool for combating procrastination. Autofocus has a type of structure but not a structure that I feel helps combat my procrastination - as a form of structured procrastination is being used to filter and define action. But I think again it is very dependant on how procrastination manifests itself for the individual. If procrastination is not the problem but a symptom of further underlying problems, then the system itself may not be actually be addressing the fundamental cause for certain individuals.
All the best
Steve
The problem as I fundamentally see it is how to achieve a balance or a flow - so that each part is utilised when they are required. For me to get balance I need to know when, where and on what to start. This allows me to achieve balance. In other words structure gives me balance.
Procrastination for some may not be a creative a process, but I find it amazingly creative. I am in effect talking down my common sense and my logical mind. I am coming up with varied reasons how I can do something, that avoids actually doing it. I can come up with various reasons not to do something. All of it defies logic as I see it and it is all done to fool the rational mind, to continuously do this requires a high degree of creativity. The rational mind knows it might only take 15 minutes to complete the task - but by the time the creative side has had a pop it looks to be three years work. Which I agree does then link to a sense of overwhelm.
Procrastination can be boiled down to quite simply putting something off. But that to me is a simplistic view of procrastination. I haven't always procrastinated - it is a learned habit. I don't procrastinate about things that I love and enjoy. The underlying reasons I procrastinate are many and varied. Perfectionism and endless polishing is just one of them. Previously having my self worth tied to work is another. Fear of success and failure, yet another. It is a way to rebel against authority and it is a way to signify resentment. At the same time as an avoidance technique it is in itself rewarding because it is used in a protective manner, a way to keep your self worth from being challenged.
For me the way I have found to combat - combat I feel being an operative word here - procrastination. Is by utilising structure and various techniques. The more structure, boundaries and limits I impose the better. But I do view myself as a chronic procrastinator. Though I don't view procrastination as the problem but rather a symptom of other problems. Procrastination is just a way that these other problems manifest themselves.
Now to me personally structure is a useful tool for combating procrastination. Autofocus has a type of structure but not a structure that I feel helps combat my procrastination - as a form of structured procrastination is being used to filter and define action. But I think again it is very dependant on how procrastination manifests itself for the individual. If procrastination is not the problem but a symptom of further underlying problems, then the system itself may not be actually be addressing the fundamental cause for certain individuals.
All the best
Steve
January 14, 2009 at 2:33 |
Steve Wynn
Steve Wynn
Steve, I don't want to turn this into a discussion of procrastination, rather than AF, but I don't believe that there is a system that can truly address procrastination. Anymore than there is a system that can truly address laziness or workaholism. The search for the perfect time-management system seems to me to be akin to the search for the perfect diet. The truth is if WE are ready to end our procrastination (or over-eating as the case may be), there are many tools (or diets) that can assist us in that process. Are some systems better than others for us? Absolutely! Do we vary in our readiness to make serious life change ? Certainly. This latter question was the basis of my doctoral research. People who took experimental anxiolytics varied in their success with them by their readiness to make life changes.
On the other hand, I have come to recognize that motivation for me comes from having a fresh system or perspective. I was so depressed about teaching this semester until I rearranged my schoolroom a little. Perhaps if we will just accept what we need to be at our best, productivity will improve. I can envision having to change my system up somehow in the future in order to stay motivated. You, on the other hand, may need to stick with the system that works for you without feeling any pressure to change.
Mark, I have already been reading over my whole list before bed, simply out of fear that I will forget something that is due tomorrow.
On the other hand, I have come to recognize that motivation for me comes from having a fresh system or perspective. I was so depressed about teaching this semester until I rearranged my schoolroom a little. Perhaps if we will just accept what we need to be at our best, productivity will improve. I can envision having to change my system up somehow in the future in order to stay motivated. You, on the other hand, may need to stick with the system that works for you without feeling any pressure to change.
Mark, I have already been reading over my whole list before bed, simply out of fear that I will forget something that is due tomorrow.
January 14, 2009 at 3:42 |
Mel
Mel
Alex:
The instructions are quite clear about this:
"Please take the rule not to re-enter these items seriously. It doesn't mean you can never re-enter them, but you should let some time pass before you do and consider carefully why they were rejected, whether they really need to be done at all, whether the time is ripe for them to be done, whether they distract from your main goals, and any other factors. When you do re-enter a dismissed item, it is often best to break it down or re-phrase it in some way. "
What else do you need to know?
The instructions are quite clear about this:
"Please take the rule not to re-enter these items seriously. It doesn't mean you can never re-enter them, but you should let some time pass before you do and consider carefully why they were rejected, whether they really need to be done at all, whether the time is ripe for them to be done, whether they distract from your main goals, and any other factors. When you do re-enter a dismissed item, it is often best to break it down or re-phrase it in some way. "
What else do you need to know?
January 14, 2009 at 8:49 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
Steve, i think you have hit the nail on the head when you say "If procrastination is not the problem but a symptom of further underlying problems, then the system itself may not be actually be addressing the fundamental cause for certain individuals."
For me one of the biggest side-effects if you like of AF, is that it forces you to confront the reasons for your resistance to certain tasks, i.e. your reasons for procrastination in those instances.
For me one of the biggest side-effects if you like of AF, is that it forces you to confront the reasons for your resistance to certain tasks, i.e. your reasons for procrastination in those instances.
January 14, 2009 at 10:21 |
Christine B
Christine B
Alex
You may also find the following thread about rephrasing helpful
http://www.markforster.net/forum/post/623288
You may also find the following thread about rephrasing helpful
http://www.markforster.net/forum/post/623288
January 14, 2009 at 10:23 |
Christine B
Christine B
I don't know about everyone else, but I found that structure didn't always help me avoid procrastination. Steve - you mentioned that your day went better when you managed to plan it properly the night before. This may have been true most of the time - but was it always? I often found with DIT that my day would be fine some of the time, but on the days where for whatever reason I realised at some point that I wouldn't be able to complete my list, I would get down about it and then procrastinate, thinking 'well I won't complete the list anyway...'
It's precisely the lack of structure in AF that helps me with this. Even if my plans do all go out of the window on a given day, I know that at any point I can easily pick things up again. I may not get so much of the 'sense of achievement' than with DIT, but to my mind the 'sense of failure' that sometimes arose is (or was) much more damaging to my overall productivity, not to mention sanity.
It's precisely the lack of structure in AF that helps me with this. Even if my plans do all go out of the window on a given day, I know that at any point I can easily pick things up again. I may not get so much of the 'sense of achievement' than with DIT, but to my mind the 'sense of failure' that sometimes arose is (or was) much more damaging to my overall productivity, not to mention sanity.
January 14, 2009 at 13:43 |
Ed C
Ed C
@Ed C:
I've had experienced this 'sense of failure' too, before I realized that the dynamics of the often-and-little-approach in DIT (and AF) concentrates on the beginning of a task, not on the accomplishment. Hence, I started to rephrase my tasks, e.g. instead of "complete essay" I'd jot down "work on next draft". It made it easy for me to complete the list, stop procrastination and therefore (at least in DIT) have a sense of achievement.
I've had experienced this 'sense of failure' too, before I realized that the dynamics of the often-and-little-approach in DIT (and AF) concentrates on the beginning of a task, not on the accomplishment. Hence, I started to rephrase my tasks, e.g. instead of "complete essay" I'd jot down "work on next draft". It made it easy for me to complete the list, stop procrastination and therefore (at least in DIT) have a sense of achievement.
January 14, 2009 at 14:55 |
M. Romer
M. Romer
Ed C:
DIT on it's own does not provide me with enough structure - though the structure it provides does help a lot. I utilise the Unschedule as well to provide the structure I need in order to keep myself on track. So my structure is as involved as scheduling down to the last minute 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. But leisure time with the Unschedule is the priority, not work. Guilt free play is the aim and in order to achieve that intense periods of work related activity preceded leisure time. Taking into account the Grandma principle, can't have your ice cream until you eat your greens, and building in a reward type of system.
But as with everything there are off days - but since adopting the Unschedule and spending at least one hour a day to play, dance, walk, read and having one day off a week. The structure I have seems to keep things under control for the most part. But my structure is the reverse of the 'norm'. My schedule starts with play and ends with work.
All the best
Steve
DIT on it's own does not provide me with enough structure - though the structure it provides does help a lot. I utilise the Unschedule as well to provide the structure I need in order to keep myself on track. So my structure is as involved as scheduling down to the last minute 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. But leisure time with the Unschedule is the priority, not work. Guilt free play is the aim and in order to achieve that intense periods of work related activity preceded leisure time. Taking into account the Grandma principle, can't have your ice cream until you eat your greens, and building in a reward type of system.
But as with everything there are off days - but since adopting the Unschedule and spending at least one hour a day to play, dance, walk, read and having one day off a week. The structure I have seems to keep things under control for the most part. But my structure is the reverse of the 'norm'. My schedule starts with play and ends with work.
All the best
Steve
January 14, 2009 at 15:51 |
Steve Wynn
Steve Wynn
I would like to add here explicitly (it was touched on by Mike above) that AF helps guide us ultimately to the existential terror of the human condition, which many of us face by filling our time with enough tasks to distract us from reality, whereas (as I understand it), using AF as described makes us truly consider - as we dismiss items on pages - why we do what we do, and (a corollary) who we are.
January 16, 2009 at 19:46 |
Laurence
Laurence
I'm closing this thread now, as it is approaching the meximum number of posts for one page. You are welcome to start the subject again as a new thread, if the existential terror of the human condition permits you to.
January 16, 2009 at 20:57 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
In DIT I had a plan for the day set out, I knew when it was complete and I knew what new 'same day urgent' items had been added. With AF I have a big list. As a self professed chronic procrastinator, initially the things that leap out at me (as M.Romer has already mentioned) are the easy and somewhat trivial items. Even though I procrastinate I have no problems keeping busy - if there are enough easy things to do overall.
The procrastination with AF hit me when I started to run out of easy things to do. Things would leap out at me - but I wouldn't feel like doing them. In a way I have no requirement to do them today - I can do them tomorrow, the next day etc. So I would think of some more easy things to do. Volume of processing has increased no doubt - but now it is more of an issue of quality vs quantity.
With DIT I may choose to do the easy items on my daily list first - to get me going and moving. I may leave the hardest item until last. But even when the hardest item is the last one on the list, I feel more obligated to at least attempt to complete the list. Because to an extent that is my daily objective.
AF having no daily structure - leads it to being more self motivated I feel. This is something I have always had trouble with overall. By defining limits and boundaries it seems to suit me better - because then I get into a type of routine.
I also think with AF there is an aspect missing - weeding the task list as such. Fine entering items to the end of the list - but with DIT prior to starting the next day I would check my list over. Remove anything that was obsolete or trivial, add items which were required as part of the larger overall plan. With AF I have no feel for the following day - weeding is fundamentally impossible because I have no plan. So the only category a task has to fit with AF is does it need doing? Yes/No. I would say with DIT the question is Does it need doing tomorrow? Yes/No. Which could then lead to doing it the day after, next week, or disregarding it as a whole. In other words there is more of an option.
I have been trying to think how to apply a daily structure and if it is possible, but with the AF setup I can not see an easy way and I think to an extent it would probably be counterproductive to the system as a whole.
All the best
Steve