Discussion Forum > Tasks 'standing out' - Question to Analytical Types
Alex,
I don't know if I fulfill all your criteria. I don't know my type, but I tend towards the analytical side. My experiences with AF have not all been positive, but I am still using it and I can see that it offers many benefits.
Now, to your question. Have you done DIT? Have you every worked from any kind of to-do list, will-do list, Next Action list, etc.? You go through the list and figure out which item you want to do, or feel like doing. I think Gill used these words a couple of days ago. Unfortunately, my analytical bent leads me to express such things much less poetically than Gill did.
Right now, I have my active page open in front of me. I've already done at least one item on that least. I read through the list. Do I want to work on the project for moving excess inventory now? Do I want to try to fix the *&^##^ Desktop Manager for my new Blackberry now? Do I want to search on Amazon.com for a copy of William James's Principles of Psychology now? Yeah. I think I'll go on Amazon.com.
If I didn't feel like doing any of them, but recognized that there were still valuable things to do included in that page, I would go to the next page and start looking at the items there.
So, I analyze "stands out" into "feel like doing" or "want to do".
By the way, I am writing this post because I have markforster.net as one of the items on my active page.
I don't know if I fulfill all your criteria. I don't know my type, but I tend towards the analytical side. My experiences with AF have not all been positive, but I am still using it and I can see that it offers many benefits.
Now, to your question. Have you done DIT? Have you every worked from any kind of to-do list, will-do list, Next Action list, etc.? You go through the list and figure out which item you want to do, or feel like doing. I think Gill used these words a couple of days ago. Unfortunately, my analytical bent leads me to express such things much less poetically than Gill did.
Right now, I have my active page open in front of me. I've already done at least one item on that least. I read through the list. Do I want to work on the project for moving excess inventory now? Do I want to try to fix the *&^##^ Desktop Manager for my new Blackberry now? Do I want to search on Amazon.com for a copy of William James's Principles of Psychology now? Yeah. I think I'll go on Amazon.com.
If I didn't feel like doing any of them, but recognized that there were still valuable things to do included in that page, I would go to the next page and start looking at the items there.
So, I analyze "stands out" into "feel like doing" or "want to do".
By the way, I am writing this post because I have markforster.net as one of the items on my active page.
January 12, 2009 at 21:56 |
moises
moises
Thank you, moises, for your reply.
In the past few years, I tried traditional to-do lists, Franklin/Lakein type prioritizing, Coveyan 'big rocks', GTD next action lists, DIT will-do lists and everything. Nothing worked, although I could see the most benefit in DIT. The major reason why I had no sucess with any approach is probably that the nature of my job is very much against it . Another reason might be that, although being an analytical type, I tend to get sidetracked from my list into 'working off the top of my head' mode.
But that's another matter entirely, and not the subject of this post or thread. And I clearly see a huge difference in 'prioriting' approaches vs. 'intuitive choice' approaches like GTD or AF (and - to a lesser extent - DIT).
What you describe - the 'feel like doing' experience - is a little different from how I understood most of what I read until now, which I would describe as a 'ripe for plucking' approach, and I'm not quite sure that the former - your approach - is completely in line with how AF should work.
That is not meant to criticize your way to do it. It's just that I have no idea how the 'right' tasks to do in the very moment should 'feel' or 'present itself' what bothers me.
In the past few years, I tried traditional to-do lists, Franklin/Lakein type prioritizing, Coveyan 'big rocks', GTD next action lists, DIT will-do lists and everything. Nothing worked, although I could see the most benefit in DIT. The major reason why I had no sucess with any approach is probably that the nature of my job is very much against it . Another reason might be that, although being an analytical type, I tend to get sidetracked from my list into 'working off the top of my head' mode.
But that's another matter entirely, and not the subject of this post or thread. And I clearly see a huge difference in 'prioriting' approaches vs. 'intuitive choice' approaches like GTD or AF (and - to a lesser extent - DIT).
What you describe - the 'feel like doing' experience - is a little different from how I understood most of what I read until now, which I would describe as a 'ripe for plucking' approach, and I'm not quite sure that the former - your approach - is completely in line with how AF should work.
That is not meant to criticize your way to do it. It's just that I have no idea how the 'right' tasks to do in the very moment should 'feel' or 'present itself' what bothers me.
January 12, 2009 at 22:55 |
Alex W.
Alex W.
It does come down to what you "feel" like doing, which from a rational perspective is exactly the opposite of what we believe we should do. Our rationale is that we will only "feel" like doing the fun things in life, never the duty/obligation things. I struggled with the concept initially because, despite being ENTJ I am very systems and logic oriented and my work involved a lot of forensic analysis.
There is is a lot of stuff out there about intuition, "being in the flow" and various buzzwords, and a lot of what is out there is just plain weird. However I found the following quote, by Dr Robert Anthony, somewhat less weird .......
"How can you know the next logical step? Here is the test that you can give to yourself before taking any action:
If you focus on what you desire and still feel overwhelmed or anxious, then you are not ready for any action. You know you are ready when it feels like the next logical step is effortless. There is no effort, no strain, and no pain."
Maybe that will help?
It is exceptionally difficult to describe but it does "just happen" that you find yourself happy to do things you have previously resisted.
There is is a lot of stuff out there about intuition, "being in the flow" and various buzzwords, and a lot of what is out there is just plain weird. However I found the following quote, by Dr Robert Anthony, somewhat less weird .......
"How can you know the next logical step? Here is the test that you can give to yourself before taking any action:
If you focus on what you desire and still feel overwhelmed or anxious, then you are not ready for any action. You know you are ready when it feels like the next logical step is effortless. There is no effort, no strain, and no pain."
Maybe that will help?
It is exceptionally difficult to describe but it does "just happen" that you find yourself happy to do things you have previously resisted.
January 12, 2009 at 23:05 |
Christine B
Christine B
Surprisingly often, the task that "stands out" isn't the easiest or most fun.
Sometimes, I've been able to move ahead on an old stinker of a project just because I'm tired of seeing it on the list, even though it's still a stinke. And after having tried the "little and often" approach on a few things, the old stinkers are starting to stand out more and more often, because I'm realizing that I really only do have to do one little thing to nudge it on, and it's just more satisfying to do one trivial action than to groan and avoid it for the millionth time.
Just give it a few days and see how it goes.
Sometimes, I've been able to move ahead on an old stinker of a project just because I'm tired of seeing it on the list, even though it's still a stinke. And after having tried the "little and often" approach on a few things, the old stinkers are starting to stand out more and more often, because I'm realizing that I really only do have to do one little thing to nudge it on, and it's just more satisfying to do one trivial action than to groan and avoid it for the millionth time.
Just give it a few days and see how it goes.
January 12, 2009 at 23:23 |
Beth
Beth
Christine, Beth,
thanks for these most valuable contributions from both of you.
Although I have a hard time to grasp it, I think (or hope) I begin to understand what this concept is all about.
..
Alex
thanks for these most valuable contributions from both of you.
Although I have a hard time to grasp it, I think (or hope) I begin to understand what this concept is all about.
..
Alex
January 13, 2009 at 2:02 |
Alex W.
Alex W.
Christine -- thank you for that great quote. That's what I've been experiencing. With DIT, I would write down "Work on deliverable database - 45 minutes" and would have to carry that over to the next day and the next. I had several projects that wouldn't budge.
I wrote the above task on the first page of my AF notebook and it stayed there for several days while its siblings got worked on. I crossed out the "45 minutes." Today, the task just popped out at me.
I've been using the metaphor to myself of popping corn. When I'm ready to work on a task, it "pops" out at me. Today, I got a tremendous amt done on that database without really having to break much of a sweat, though I'd dreaded it using DIT. The idea of it being "effortless" occurred to me as I was working on it.
For tasks that haven't "popped," I'm imagining them gathering heat on a back burner. Of course, not all tasks pop off the page and into my face like that. I just now finished another ornery task that took less than 5 minutes, though it's been on my list for days. As I scanned the page, it was the one that my eyes were drawn to like a magnet.
This may be a silly suggestion, but before scanning a list, perhaps the INTPs could do a mini-meditation -- close your eyes, breathe in, count 1, breathe out, and so on up to 10. Focus just on the breath. Perhaps this technique could quiet their thinking machines a bit so they can hear their intuition's whispers. Meditation is not everyone's cuppa, but perhaps it would be useful.
I wrote the above task on the first page of my AF notebook and it stayed there for several days while its siblings got worked on. I crossed out the "45 minutes." Today, the task just popped out at me.
I've been using the metaphor to myself of popping corn. When I'm ready to work on a task, it "pops" out at me. Today, I got a tremendous amt done on that database without really having to break much of a sweat, though I'd dreaded it using DIT. The idea of it being "effortless" occurred to me as I was working on it.
For tasks that haven't "popped," I'm imagining them gathering heat on a back burner. Of course, not all tasks pop off the page and into my face like that. I just now finished another ornery task that took less than 5 minutes, though it's been on my list for days. As I scanned the page, it was the one that my eyes were drawn to like a magnet.
This may be a silly suggestion, but before scanning a list, perhaps the INTPs could do a mini-meditation -- close your eyes, breathe in, count 1, breathe out, and so on up to 10. Focus just on the breath. Perhaps this technique could quiet their thinking machines a bit so they can hear their intuition's whispers. Meditation is not everyone's cuppa, but perhaps it would be useful.
January 13, 2009 at 2:25 |
Mike Brown
Mike Brown
Alex:
Just a couple of pointers to add to what has been very capably said by the others.
First, it's important to do it as I say in the instructions. Start off by reading through the page fairly quickly. This gives your mind a chance to assess what's on the page.
Then let go of your rational concerns (including the rational concern that you're not doing it properly!) and go down the page one item at a time. When you come to an item that you feel like doing, do it. I commit myself to an item by putting a dot beside it - this also helps me to find my place again.
It's very important to take the items one at a time, not to try and assess the whole page rationally. This is because every time you consider an item your resistance to doing it diminishes perceptibly.
Keep going round the page one item at a time, until there are no more items that you feel like doing. Then move on to the next page.
Just a couple of pointers to add to what has been very capably said by the others.
First, it's important to do it as I say in the instructions. Start off by reading through the page fairly quickly. This gives your mind a chance to assess what's on the page.
Then let go of your rational concerns (including the rational concern that you're not doing it properly!) and go down the page one item at a time. When you come to an item that you feel like doing, do it. I commit myself to an item by putting a dot beside it - this also helps me to find my place again.
It's very important to take the items one at a time, not to try and assess the whole page rationally. This is because every time you consider an item your resistance to doing it diminishes perceptibly.
Keep going round the page one item at a time, until there are no more items that you feel like doing. Then move on to the next page.
January 13, 2009 at 11:34 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
Thanks for this discussion. It puts into words what my experience has been, especially the quote that Christine B provided about anxiety and overwhelm and Mike Brown's popping metaphor.
I have definitely found it to be true that an item that carries anxiety or overwhelm is not ready to be moved on in its present form. At times, however, all it needs, as Mike indicated, is reworking. Rewording "clear backlog" to "work on backlog" or even "clear one item of backlog" lets me feel freedom on some items and get going.
I have definitely found it to be true that an item that carries anxiety or overwhelm is not ready to be moved on in its present form. At times, however, all it needs, as Mike indicated, is reworking. Rewording "clear backlog" to "work on backlog" or even "clear one item of backlog" lets me feel freedom on some items and get going.
January 14, 2009 at 16:55 |
Lenore
Lenore
Interesting thread. 2 things 'popped out' at me whilst reading it.
1. Mike's comments about a 'mini meditation' makes sense - and not only to address the 'thinking bits'. I think that it can probably help to recognise when the 'non-thinking', reactive part starts blindly interfering too. Meditation aside, and without wanting to sound like a space cadet, it implies to me that it is best to be in some specific mental state during the scanning process.
2. Mikes other comment about changing the wording of a task is also interesting. Reading through the forum, I see more and more comments about the importance of the precise wording and its impact on success. And I'm not sure if the old injunction to write specific instructions loaded with concrete verbs is the complete answer here. I have often jumped happily into an extremely fuzzy, general, imprecise note-to-self...
Dave
1. Mike's comments about a 'mini meditation' makes sense - and not only to address the 'thinking bits'. I think that it can probably help to recognise when the 'non-thinking', reactive part starts blindly interfering too. Meditation aside, and without wanting to sound like a space cadet, it implies to me that it is best to be in some specific mental state during the scanning process.
2. Mikes other comment about changing the wording of a task is also interesting. Reading through the forum, I see more and more comments about the importance of the precise wording and its impact on success. And I'm not sure if the old injunction to write specific instructions loaded with concrete verbs is the complete answer here. I have often jumped happily into an extremely fuzzy, general, imprecise note-to-self...
Dave
January 14, 2009 at 17:15 |
Dave
Dave
Dave:
I think that's one of the beauties of the system, "Take over world?" can sit quite happily alongside "Phone Jim on 246978".
I think that's one of the beauties of the system, "Take over world?" can sit quite happily alongside "Phone Jim on 246978".
January 14, 2009 at 17:49 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
Mark, Mike and all others,
thank you for your comments.
Mike, re the mini-meditation:
I think I remember (don't have the book at hand right now) that Neil Fiore recommended a quite similar meditation in "The Now Habit" for procrastiantion-busting.
Regarding rewording:
That's probably much easier in English than in other languages. In my native language (German), using the inifinive of a verb for my task list feels weird. Using the imperative easily resembles 'army drill'. So I usually end up using the noun of the task (e.g. 'quarterly report'), which is very impersonal and detached. This seems to induce additional resistance.
In English, the forms of the verbs are usually the same, so it doesn't matter much. You're lucky.
--
Alex
thank you for your comments.
Mike, re the mini-meditation:
I think I remember (don't have the book at hand right now) that Neil Fiore recommended a quite similar meditation in "The Now Habit" for procrastiantion-busting.
Regarding rewording:
That's probably much easier in English than in other languages. In my native language (German), using the inifinive of a verb for my task list feels weird. Using the imperative easily resembles 'army drill'. So I usually end up using the noun of the task (e.g. 'quarterly report'), which is very impersonal and detached. This seems to induce additional resistance.
In English, the forms of the verbs are usually the same, so it doesn't matter much. You're lucky.
--
Alex
January 14, 2009 at 20:00 |
Alex W.
Alex W.
Alex:
Since your English is excellent (I actually hadn't realised it wasn't your first language), why not write your lists in English?
Since your English is excellent (I actually hadn't realised it wasn't your first language), why not write your lists in English?
January 14, 2009 at 20:54 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
Thanks for the compliment, Mark,
but there's always online dictionaries, and not all my errors are typos :-)
(and I still hardly know where to put the commas)
Regarding your suggestion: I'm afraid that would add just another layer of detachment.
I sometimes (rarely) write notes to myself in English, but only if I read something in English and am too lazy to translate it back. I'd rather not use a foreign language for my tasks list. I'm a very language-oriented (is this a valid term?) person (I work with language, after all, and my German is much better than my English), and it wouldn't feel right. Interesting idea, though.
Mark, at some point I even thought about offering to help translate your books into German, but I'm afraid I'm too busy (I remember the 'Commitments vs. Interest' part of DIT).
but there's always online dictionaries, and not all my errors are typos :-)
(and I still hardly know where to put the commas)
Regarding your suggestion: I'm afraid that would add just another layer of detachment.
I sometimes (rarely) write notes to myself in English, but only if I read something in English and am too lazy to translate it back. I'd rather not use a foreign language for my tasks list. I'm a very language-oriented (is this a valid term?) person (I work with language, after all, and my German is much better than my English), and it wouldn't feel right. Interesting idea, though.
Mark, at some point I even thought about offering to help translate your books into German, but I'm afraid I'm too busy (I remember the 'Commitments vs. Interest' part of DIT).
January 14, 2009 at 22:38 |
Alex W.
Alex W.
Alex:
My German isn't good enough to help you, I'm afraid. But presumably German speakers write to-do lists and check lists like everyone else. What's the normal way of doing it?
My German isn't good enough to help you, I'm afraid. But presumably German speakers write to-do lists and check lists like everyone else. What's the normal way of doing it?
January 14, 2009 at 23:19 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
I'm German as well and actually I have the same wording habits as Alex, using nouns instead of verbs. But I think "rewriting a task" is less about using other words (although sometimes this will already help) but more about being more precise, drilling down and/or defining the first step.
January 15, 2009 at 8:51 |
Christian Gärtner
Christian Gärtner
Alex,
in German I use the infinitive, like "Quartalsbericht anfangen" (Start quarterly report), "Daten sammeln für Quartalsbericht" (Collect data for quarterly report). And I use the simple nouns (quarterly report, Quartalsbericht) as headers.
in German I use the infinitive, like "Quartalsbericht anfangen" (Start quarterly report), "Daten sammeln für Quartalsbericht" (Collect data for quarterly report). And I use the simple nouns (quarterly report, Quartalsbericht) as headers.
January 15, 2009 at 12:51 |
Rainer
Rainer
Great quotes and metaphors, Christine and Mike. Perhaps we should have another thread about sources (I hadn't heard of Robert Anthony).
Re helping along the intuitive process, perhaps this can be magnified by using a divination technique like a pendulum.
Re helping along the intuitive process, perhaps this can be magnified by using a divination technique like a pendulum.
January 17, 2009 at 6:38 |
Laurence
Laurence
The first one is about a task "standing out". Unfortunately, I have to say that I did 'get' neither the instructions nor the additional blog post nor all the forum threads I read about this subject.
Until now, I can't see much difference to what I'd call a 'sense of urgency', which results in lots (almost all of) the tasks on my list screaming at me, which for me results mostly in analyzing the tasks along the well-known urgency/importance matrix, with urgency ruling most of the time and even overruling the closed list boundaries. This seems to be completely wrong. Almost all explanations I've read so far seam to come from the viewpoint of more intutitive/creative personality types than myself, so I'm a little stuck here.
So I'd like to ask especially the more 'analytical' (INTP, 'thinker') types here - we seem to be in the minority - who had positive experiences with AF: How do you know when a task 'stands out'?
--
Alex