Discussion Forum > Feedback - List Conflation & instruction confusion
Hi rani
The key to using AF effectively is the fact that it works with our intuition as opposed to our usual rational "grading" of tasks. The task we work on at any given time in AF is the "item that stands out", or to put it another way the item we feel like doing. Don't worry about having home and work items on the same list - there has been a lot of discussion over whether to split those lists and some, self included, prefer to keep everything on one list. That is not the same for everyone and you will find what works best for you as you use it.
The best advice I can give is just to start working with your lists, adding new items as they come to mind, and getting used to the way in which you do the items in the order you want to do them as opposed to what you think is the "correct" order. You will no doubt come up with more questions, such as how to treat urgent (same day) items, projects etc. but just get started and then you will have more of a feel for it.
To clarify your specific question, you work on one page at a time, scanning it quickly to familiarise yourself with the items, then more slowly. Work on the first item that stands out, for as long as is comfortable and then cross it off the list. If that item is not completed, or needs to be repeated, add it to the end of the list. Continue down the page, working on the items that stand out in the same way, until you reach the end of the page. Continue (on the same page) until no more items stand out and then move on to page 2. You continue in the same way through the pages and then start again at the beginning.
The point at which you highlight or table items is only when, on the first pass through any page, no items at all stand out. Then and only then are all items remaining on that page dismissed. Keep in mind that you will be cycling through your pages many times before that happens.
The following link leads to posts on some of the questions asked but I would really recommend that you work on your lists for a while first. That in itself may answer a number of your questions. Good luck!
FAQ's
http://www.markforster.net/forum/post/627319
The key to using AF effectively is the fact that it works with our intuition as opposed to our usual rational "grading" of tasks. The task we work on at any given time in AF is the "item that stands out", or to put it another way the item we feel like doing. Don't worry about having home and work items on the same list - there has been a lot of discussion over whether to split those lists and some, self included, prefer to keep everything on one list. That is not the same for everyone and you will find what works best for you as you use it.
The best advice I can give is just to start working with your lists, adding new items as they come to mind, and getting used to the way in which you do the items in the order you want to do them as opposed to what you think is the "correct" order. You will no doubt come up with more questions, such as how to treat urgent (same day) items, projects etc. but just get started and then you will have more of a feel for it.
To clarify your specific question, you work on one page at a time, scanning it quickly to familiarise yourself with the items, then more slowly. Work on the first item that stands out, for as long as is comfortable and then cross it off the list. If that item is not completed, or needs to be repeated, add it to the end of the list. Continue down the page, working on the items that stand out in the same way, until you reach the end of the page. Continue (on the same page) until no more items stand out and then move on to page 2. You continue in the same way through the pages and then start again at the beginning.
The point at which you highlight or table items is only when, on the first pass through any page, no items at all stand out. Then and only then are all items remaining on that page dismissed. Keep in mind that you will be cycling through your pages many times before that happens.
The following link leads to posts on some of the questions asked but I would really recommend that you work on your lists for a while first. That in itself may answer a number of your questions. Good luck!
FAQ's
http://www.markforster.net/forum/post/627319
January 17, 2009 at 22:16 |
Christine B
Christine B
Hi, Rani. If I were you, I wouldn't keep two separate lists. If you keep using the system, you'll have plenty of opportunities to do work or home tasks as you are willing and able. If you have done at least one item on a page, you can move on to the next without highlighting/dismissing any. But let's say on your second pass through that page for the day, you see nothing that "stands out." You should highlight the remaining few items (they should be few) and can revisit them at another time to determine if they need to be done or rephrased and added to the end of the list. The point is to push yourself to do the slightest thing toward every task/project. If you can't get yourself to do that, it's likely that it's not even a task/project worth doing. If it IS necessary to do, you can wait and review it or rephrase it and add it to the end of your list. I hope that clears it up.
January 17, 2009 at 22:22 |
Mel
Mel
Thank you Christine and Mel for your replies. Christine, your clarification on when/how to move to another page was helpful. Thanks also for the FAQ link.
Upon reflection, a better way of describing my challenge is that my academic work life and home life/renovations are not separated enough and I need to mentally and physically keep them apart. I choose to separate my lists for that very reason. The first thing that popped out at me was my academic work list was much shorter (which would help explain why I wasn't getting as much done in that area.) I also changed notebooks to one that was about 34 lines which was also helpful.
Having 2 notebooks is in a sense a meta-list. I first intuitively choose either the work or home notebooks, then I do the Autofocus process with my list. This feels better, because when I'm at 'work" I need to turn away from my home life so it doesn't create anxiety for me (our renos are hitting roadblocks.)
So again, thanks for your comments -- started moving forward with the lists again.
Upon reflection, a better way of describing my challenge is that my academic work life and home life/renovations are not separated enough and I need to mentally and physically keep them apart. I choose to separate my lists for that very reason. The first thing that popped out at me was my academic work list was much shorter (which would help explain why I wasn't getting as much done in that area.) I also changed notebooks to one that was about 34 lines which was also helpful.
Having 2 notebooks is in a sense a meta-list. I first intuitively choose either the work or home notebooks, then I do the Autofocus process with my list. This feels better, because when I'm at 'work" I need to turn away from my home life so it doesn't create anxiety for me (our renos are hitting roadblocks.)
So again, thanks for your comments -- started moving forward with the lists again.
January 18, 2009 at 1:32 |
rani
rani
Hi rani
Glad that was helpful. Liked your point about intuitively choosing which book to work with. It's become clear from a lot of the posts that some people prefer one and some two lists. I like having one list; as Mel says there is plenty of opportunity to do both when you work at home, but it's what works best for you. What I like about AF is that the system itself enables you to work out what is best for you. There are rules, and those rules are important, but there are not many of them.
Glad that was helpful. Liked your point about intuitively choosing which book to work with. It's become clear from a lot of the posts that some people prefer one and some two lists. I like having one list; as Mel says there is plenty of opportunity to do both when you work at home, but it's what works best for you. What I like about AF is that the system itself enables you to work out what is best for you. There are rules, and those rules are important, but there are not many of them.
January 18, 2009 at 1:43 |
Christine B
Christine B
Rani!
I too had to think about how to "operationalize" my lists, as they say in school. After dithering with two notebooks, I opted to use just one notebook. However, for a two-page spread, the left-hand page is for school/home/personal tasks, the right page is for office tasks. This offers me physical segregation of tasks within one book. (Someone on the forum suggested this.) Depending on which context I'm working in, I can easily ignore one or the other of the pages as if it didn't exist. I find this to be fascinating.
This arrangement works for me because, thoughout my workday, I receive emails from school or from home, and I want to notate the tasks they kick up. So I now have a method to quickly enter those types of tasks while at my office desk, but without having to shuffle back and forth between separate notebooks or re-enter tasks later (which is what I was doing before).
I like your solution -- you're literally 'closing the book' on one set of tasks when you take up the other.
re dismissed tasks - When I scan my pages, I can usually tell when a task is simmering in the background vs when it's cold. As others have said, you only *need* to work on one task per page, and that task can be a micro-action (such as rephrasing the task and rewriting it at the end of the list). When I can't even think of a next action for a task, or when I look at it and go, "why did I want to do this again?" this is usually a sign that I can dismiss it. But since it's highlighted in your book, you can always go back and review it later if circumstances change.
BTW, Christine is the bee's knees when it comes to AF and she has many many helpful posts throughout the forum.
I too had to think about how to "operationalize" my lists, as they say in school. After dithering with two notebooks, I opted to use just one notebook. However, for a two-page spread, the left-hand page is for school/home/personal tasks, the right page is for office tasks. This offers me physical segregation of tasks within one book. (Someone on the forum suggested this.) Depending on which context I'm working in, I can easily ignore one or the other of the pages as if it didn't exist. I find this to be fascinating.
This arrangement works for me because, thoughout my workday, I receive emails from school or from home, and I want to notate the tasks they kick up. So I now have a method to quickly enter those types of tasks while at my office desk, but without having to shuffle back and forth between separate notebooks or re-enter tasks later (which is what I was doing before).
I like your solution -- you're literally 'closing the book' on one set of tasks when you take up the other.
re dismissed tasks - When I scan my pages, I can usually tell when a task is simmering in the background vs when it's cold. As others have said, you only *need* to work on one task per page, and that task can be a micro-action (such as rephrasing the task and rewriting it at the end of the list). When I can't even think of a next action for a task, or when I look at it and go, "why did I want to do this again?" this is usually a sign that I can dismiss it. But since it's highlighted in your book, you can always go back and review it later if circumstances change.
BTW, Christine is the bee's knees when it comes to AF and she has many many helpful posts throughout the forum.
January 18, 2009 at 2:16 |
Mike Brown
Mike Brown
Mike
ROTF ;-) It has been so long since I heard "the bee's knees". Lovely ;-)
ROTF ;-) It has been so long since I heard "the bee's knees". Lovely ;-)
January 18, 2009 at 12:36 |
Mike
Mike
Mike Brown
Thanks for the compliment!
Thanks for the compliment!
January 18, 2009 at 17:05 |
Christine B
Christine B
Mike!!!
That's an interesting insight into the 2 page notebook. I took the opportunity to find a long narrow notebook (Rhodia, 8.5x2.75) that easy to carry around and sits easily on my crowded desk beside my computer. So far, so good!
<full disclosure> Mike introduced me to this system -- and it's working great so far!
thanks to everyone who gave their feedback. and yes, you do have a way with words (this bees knees thing -- where the heck did that come from...bees don't have knees?)
That's an interesting insight into the 2 page notebook. I took the opportunity to find a long narrow notebook (Rhodia, 8.5x2.75) that easy to carry around and sits easily on my crowded desk beside my computer. So far, so good!
<full disclosure> Mike introduced me to this system -- and it's working great so far!
thanks to everyone who gave their feedback. and yes, you do have a way with words (this bees knees thing -- where the heck did that come from...bees don't have knees?)
January 19, 2009 at 1:52 |
rani
rani
Rani!!
re bee's knees -- Well, if I had said Christine's posts were as fine as a frog's hair, that would have been silly.
re bee's knees -- Well, if I had said Christine's posts were as fine as a frog's hair, that would have been silly.
January 19, 2009 at 3:24 |
Mike Brown
Mike Brown
FWIW - I keep two lists in one book by flipping my book upside down and working from back-to-front for the second list. I use a Moleskine softcover and the pages are laid out such that the pages look identical whether working front-to-back or back-to-front (top and bottom margins are the same size).
January 19, 2009 at 4:03 |
Zane
Zane





I just started using this system on Thursday Jan 15 and its working well so far. However, in my eagerness to get started i put all my tasks on one list. My task list is only 1.5 pages at the moment so I didn't see a need to do separate lists.
I realize now I should have separated out home (in the midst of a renovation) and academics (masters student). As a result there is home stuff being put on the end of the list that is more urgent that the larger, amorphous academic stuff.
The part of the instructions I am resisting is highlighting and "tabling" items that don't stand out for you. I don't want to do that. Upon re-reading the instructions I realized that I may have misunderstood.
1) I do a quick then slow pass on pg1
2) I do a task on page 1
3) Then do another quick & slow pass pg1
4) If nothing on page 1 stands out, (a) do I go to page 2 & repeat the process? or (b) do I remove the items on page 1 that are uncompleted and table them, and then go to page 2?
My confusion has to do with at what point you highlight/table items. The thing that is undefined for me is the chunk of time in which one interacts with the page lists. If I remove items on first passes, what defines a first pass? Is it the first time I interact with the list on a given day, or the first time I interact with the academic list after working on the home list? Perhaps I'm overthinking and this will be resolved by 2 lists.
If I were working, my time would be structured around the work day, and each interaction with the lists would be based on the work day. However, my time is not structured in that manner. Because of the nature of my life at the moment, my academic work day is constantly interrupted by the "home/renovation" work.
I think this can be partly resolved by making separate lists. But I could also use some insight on how one works could better work Autofocus when the workday is less defined.
I like this process. It's simply, easy to use, and helps me refocus after an interruption.
Any insights would be appreciated.
..rani