Discussion Forum > A couple of things I miss from DIT and GTD
David
In answer to some of your points:
I use a separate list for errands and as I am a part time artist (working in the spare room at home) although in theory my 'studio' is not a separate location, I do find it useful to have a separate list for there too. So all my art related tasks go on the studio list and I deal with them during my shceduled studio time (this would include specific 'art' computer tasks or phone calls).
I do still sometimes batch other tasks if I feel the need to. It tends to be an exception rather than a rule but if, for instance, I want to make a phone call I would also scan my whole list to see if there were any I wanted to make at the same time. I think this might come under the Autofocus instruction of using common sense.
I think with this system it helps to run it as close as possible to the original instructions for a while, then if you come across something that doesn't 'feel' right tweak it and see if that improves things. Sometimes it does and sometimes it doesn't. See the following post as an example where I found it didn't:
http://www.markforster.net/forum/post/633631
Good to hear from you again
Regards
Hannah
In answer to some of your points:
I use a separate list for errands and as I am a part time artist (working in the spare room at home) although in theory my 'studio' is not a separate location, I do find it useful to have a separate list for there too. So all my art related tasks go on the studio list and I deal with them during my shceduled studio time (this would include specific 'art' computer tasks or phone calls).
I do still sometimes batch other tasks if I feel the need to. It tends to be an exception rather than a rule but if, for instance, I want to make a phone call I would also scan my whole list to see if there were any I wanted to make at the same time. I think this might come under the Autofocus instruction of using common sense.
I think with this system it helps to run it as close as possible to the original instructions for a while, then if you come across something that doesn't 'feel' right tweak it and see if that improves things. Sometimes it does and sometimes it doesn't. See the following post as an example where I found it didn't:
http://www.markforster.net/forum/post/633631
Good to hear from you again
Regards
Hannah
January 18, 2009 at 20:40 |
Hannah
Hannah
David, I don't see any reason you can't incorporate AF into a routine. I think we're free to keep any activities we wish outside the system. For example, if it worked better for you, you could keep a list of current initiatives and work on one of them BEFORE beginning your AF lists.
As for contexts, I am finding that by constantly reviewing my lists, I automatically group like tasks together. If I am running errands and think to do tasks on page 3 and page 5, I just do them. That's the common sense Hannah's talking about. :-) I honestly don't think we need as many contexts as GTD advises. For example, how many of us are away from a phone and a computer for most of the day? We COULD make all our phone calls and do all our computer tasks at most any time. I think the only truly valuable contexts have to do with being away from home or work. In that case, I don't see anything wrong with marking each of these errand-type tasks somehow so that when you are ready to do errands, you can quickly find them without reading the whole list. Another thought would be to schedule an errand day. Rather than input errands into your AF lists, you could schedule them on your calendar for the next errand day.
That's my 2 cents.
As for contexts, I am finding that by constantly reviewing my lists, I automatically group like tasks together. If I am running errands and think to do tasks on page 3 and page 5, I just do them. That's the common sense Hannah's talking about. :-) I honestly don't think we need as many contexts as GTD advises. For example, how many of us are away from a phone and a computer for most of the day? We COULD make all our phone calls and do all our computer tasks at most any time. I think the only truly valuable contexts have to do with being away from home or work. In that case, I don't see anything wrong with marking each of these errand-type tasks somehow so that when you are ready to do errands, you can quickly find them without reading the whole list. Another thought would be to schedule an errand day. Rather than input errands into your AF lists, you could schedule them on your calendar for the next errand day.
That's my 2 cents.
January 18, 2009 at 22:00 |
Mel
Mel
These are all excellent suggestions. I think besides having a separate list of urgent and hard due date items as Mark suggests, I will continue my routine of taking care of routine items before I start on my AF lists.
Best to All,
-David
Best to All,
-David
January 18, 2009 at 23:30 |
David Drake
David Drake
I do keep a separate list for some items, eg shopping but add routines into AF for the simple reason that I had a generally high level of resistance to a lot of routine tasks. That disappeared once I put them into AF. I know for me, that if I had a separate list of daily routines, I would have the same resistance to them if I treated them like my shopping list or tried to do them before starting on my AF lists. (I suspect that would not be to the same extent if they were the same-day urgent tasks to be "index carded" but haven't tried that yet).
I think it is becoming clear that there are number of people who liked the structure and discipline of DIT and were able to keep to it. I was never able to do that, whether it was due to general procrastination or just a low boredom threshold! It might be an interesting exercise, when people have been working with AF for some time and found their comfort levels, to see if there is a pattern to the "solutions", whether they be types of notebook, treatment of urgent items, or multiple location lists, and whether that bore any correlation to people's success levels/experience with previous systems.
I think it is becoming clear that there are number of people who liked the structure and discipline of DIT and were able to keep to it. I was never able to do that, whether it was due to general procrastination or just a low boredom threshold! It might be an interesting exercise, when people have been working with AF for some time and found their comfort levels, to see if there is a pattern to the "solutions", whether they be types of notebook, treatment of urgent items, or multiple location lists, and whether that bore any correlation to people's success levels/experience with previous systems.
January 19, 2009 at 2:12 |
Christine B
Christine B
Hi Christine
I don't feel on top of things if I ignore my ordinary life habits which I had to ritualize because of weak memory. When the pain or laziness is rebelling, I alternate them to create willingness. I also enforce a scutwork cap (boring, onerous yet necessary tasks to uphold responsibilities and standard of living I like)
I like your idea of populating the AF list with them on these challenging times....but I wouldn't want to do that too often. I normally feel more freedom and peace carrying out my normal life habits to feel current and up to standard.....but your idea might serve me well on those less than stellar times! LOL!
Thanks for the idea to try!
learning as I go!
I don't feel on top of things if I ignore my ordinary life habits which I had to ritualize because of weak memory. When the pain or laziness is rebelling, I alternate them to create willingness. I also enforce a scutwork cap (boring, onerous yet necessary tasks to uphold responsibilities and standard of living I like)
I like your idea of populating the AF list with them on these challenging times....but I wouldn't want to do that too often. I normally feel more freedom and peace carrying out my normal life habits to feel current and up to standard.....but your idea might serve me well on those less than stellar times! LOL!
Thanks for the idea to try!
learning as I go!
January 19, 2009 at 14:23 |
learning as I go
learning as I go
David:
I think the main thing you have to watch out for in making sub-lists is that your mind starts to think of a sub-list as a whole and then starts resisting the whole.
I found this with keeping a shopping list. If I had, say, five items on the list, I would resist going shopping because it was a drag to go out and spend time finding all five items.
So I went back to listing the items separately on the main AF list, like "Buy new toothpaste". I'm much less likely to resist that, and when I do decide to go to buy the toothpaste, it's easy to say "And what else can I get while I'm about it?"
I think the main thing you have to watch out for in making sub-lists is that your mind starts to think of a sub-list as a whole and then starts resisting the whole.
I found this with keeping a shopping list. If I had, say, five items on the list, I would resist going shopping because it was a drag to go out and spend time finding all five items.
So I went back to listing the items separately on the main AF list, like "Buy new toothpaste". I'm much less likely to resist that, and when I do decide to go to buy the toothpaste, it's easy to say "And what else can I get while I'm about it?"
January 19, 2009 at 15:24 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
Haha :)
Funny as we can be differ !
I resist exactly the opposite : "Oh no, I won't go for a toothpaste (I'll steal some to of my son's, or suffice myself with water this evening) !"
But : "Hey, already 5 items for my "go to drugstore" ? Then it's worth my time I take a break and go there !".
In fact, this instance wouldn't occur, because drugstore is one of my routines !
Funny as we can be differ !
I resist exactly the opposite : "Oh no, I won't go for a toothpaste (I'll steal some to of my son's, or suffice myself with water this evening) !"
But : "Hey, already 5 items for my "go to drugstore" ? Then it's worth my time I take a break and go there !".
In fact, this instance wouldn't occur, because drugstore is one of my routines !
January 19, 2009 at 15:44 |
Jacques Turbé
Jacques Turbé
Isn't it great that we are all different!!
I always forgot half of what I wanted when I went shopping so having my list is making me sooooo organised!
I always forgot half of what I wanted when I went shopping so having my list is making me sooooo organised!
January 19, 2009 at 16:11 |
Christine B
Christine B
learning as I go
I think that rituals and routines will inevitably have to be a part of our lives at any given time and there will always be unexpected variables. Illness has a profound impact on that - at a time when I just could not concentrate for more than about five minutes on anything, the only way I got anything done was with a fixed list and the invaluable egg timer. Sometimes system and discipline is the only answer. Even within AF we still have to exercise some degree of discipline, or impose a rational order if you like, on same day tasks. There are things I will *never* feel like doing but must. I do not believe I will ever "feel" like going to the dentist but must impose my discipline (and a schedule) on that task. If I have to go on a trip at short notice I would have to forego my lists and action a set of specifc tasks. (But of course that will never happen because under AF I will of course have a bag already packed, together with a list of all of the variables dependent upon location/time of year/length of trip etc <grin>)
I think that rituals and routines will inevitably have to be a part of our lives at any given time and there will always be unexpected variables. Illness has a profound impact on that - at a time when I just could not concentrate for more than about five minutes on anything, the only way I got anything done was with a fixed list and the invaluable egg timer. Sometimes system and discipline is the only answer. Even within AF we still have to exercise some degree of discipline, or impose a rational order if you like, on same day tasks. There are things I will *never* feel like doing but must. I do not believe I will ever "feel" like going to the dentist but must impose my discipline (and a schedule) on that task. If I have to go on a trip at short notice I would have to forego my lists and action a set of specifc tasks. (But of course that will never happen because under AF I will of course have a bag already packed, together with a list of all of the variables dependent upon location/time of year/length of trip etc <grin>)
January 19, 2009 at 16:25 |
Christine B
Christine B
Hi Christine
Welcome to my world! LOL! I've been playing around with your idea....alternate my routines and MITs with AF list......I'm not used to stretching these things out because I like to get rid of these nagging tasks first.....but....but....but....this way is more fun!.....I'll keep to it for a bit.....maybe my mind will like your way better! I like to switch things up to stave off boredom yet I also like to get the monkey off my back as early as possible......I'm liking your way because it's more paletable!!!!! I'll see what happens!
Again, thank you so much for the assist. I've always used the AFlist prinicples during my off hours....maybe I'll experiment with your merger of the two.....not as extreme as play and work mixed but hard work mixed with welcomed work!
Thanks!
learning as I go
Welcome to my world! LOL! I've been playing around with your idea....alternate my routines and MITs with AF list......I'm not used to stretching these things out because I like to get rid of these nagging tasks first.....but....but....but....this way is more fun!.....I'll keep to it for a bit.....maybe my mind will like your way better! I like to switch things up to stave off boredom yet I also like to get the monkey off my back as early as possible......I'm liking your way because it's more paletable!!!!! I'll see what happens!
Again, thank you so much for the assist. I've always used the AFlist prinicples during my off hours....maybe I'll experiment with your merger of the two.....not as extreme as play and work mixed but hard work mixed with welcomed work!
Thanks!
learning as I go
January 19, 2009 at 16:40 |
learning as I go
learning as I go
p.s. I'm forced to use the 5 minute jump-start method more often than I care to admit! *blush* but, hey.....resolve meted out in 5 minute intervals still trumps procrastination or avoidance. My floor doesn't have a different result if I mop it all in one swoop when I'm feeling better or if I do it 5 minutes at a time when I have to use my cane. My ego is finally beginning to accept this with a bit of far off humor! LOL!
learning as I go
learning as I go
January 19, 2009 at 16:44 |
learning as I go
learning as I go
p.s. I don't even attempt the 5 minute rule for tasks requiring details and exactness......recently I sent a check to my cable company for the year 1989! LOL! I simply substitute mule work when I'm doped up or can't focus correctly. Also, that's a real reason why I can't simply allow my intuition to dictate. If my mind is capable, I try to knock out as much of that type of work as possible.....same for grueling physical labor or the safety factor of using power tools or cooking knives! LOL! I always have to weigh my current opportunities. If I have nothing hangind over my head.....then I am free to use those blessed times to engage in life matters that elevate me and my loved ones the most!
They also appreciate it when I feel OK to take in life's blessings and pleasures.....but...work first!!!!! (Do you sense a military type upbringing that created this mentality? *blush*) MITs done......now to allow my dog to enjoy the beautiful snow whilst I pick up behind her! *blush*
Learning as I go
They also appreciate it when I feel OK to take in life's blessings and pleasures.....but...work first!!!!! (Do you sense a military type upbringing that created this mentality? *blush*) MITs done......now to allow my dog to enjoy the beautiful snow whilst I pick up behind her! *blush*
Learning as I go
January 19, 2009 at 16:55 |
learning as I go
learning as I go
learning as I go
Your comment re the kitchen floor reminds me of a conversation I had with a friend about AF last week - I said I had just put "hoover bathroom" on my list instead of "hoover apartment". She paused and said, "but I would never hoover the whole place in one go .....!"
It is so easy for our ingrained approach to life to be to get the "nasty things" out of the way before we are "allowed" to do the nice things. Does that come from "if you don't finish your dinner then you can't have any desert"? I don't even remember if my parents ever said that to me but it is definately how I have thought and have acted/reacted to things in my life.
ps Does anyone else eat the crust of the pizza first to get it out of the way because it's boring? :-)
Your comment re the kitchen floor reminds me of a conversation I had with a friend about AF last week - I said I had just put "hoover bathroom" on my list instead of "hoover apartment". She paused and said, "but I would never hoover the whole place in one go .....!"
It is so easy for our ingrained approach to life to be to get the "nasty things" out of the way before we are "allowed" to do the nice things. Does that come from "if you don't finish your dinner then you can't have any desert"? I don't even remember if my parents ever said that to me but it is definately how I have thought and have acted/reacted to things in my life.
ps Does anyone else eat the crust of the pizza first to get it out of the way because it's boring? :-)
January 19, 2009 at 17:52 |
Christine B
Christine B
hehehe... I am the one who loves to go to the dentist, in fact, I love so much my dentist that I always tell her that her office is one of the best place for me to relax! That is true!
As for list, what is working for me is a second list ( just skip one page in main AF) with all things I have to do in the city: errands, contacts, visits. I will use it as an specific AF. Or better to say, I write buy a new shoe in AF but also write it again in this list apart.
As for list, what is working for me is a second list ( just skip one page in main AF) with all things I have to do in the city: errands, contacts, visits. I will use it as an specific AF. Or better to say, I write buy a new shoe in AF but also write it again in this list apart.
January 19, 2009 at 19:04 |
Silvia
Silvia
Hi Christine!
LOL!......I have actually vacuumed my bathroom......when my gsd is blowing her undercoat, I need to vacuum before I can mop!
I'm not sure where the work first came from.....possibly a combination of the pleasure of a free mind with no nagging. My dad used to call it "worst first". I also think we all learned it in school. To learn and achieve in school is similar to learning and achieving in life. Plan, achieve...plan, enjoy with PLENTY of flex time included. We were also taught to stay current to better receive the flux of life....emergencies and opportunities alike.
It used to feel easy enough,.....now it feels like I'm giving birth to a pineapple! LOL!....but it's worth it overall....all things considered. LOL! Opps.....2:15 to 3:00 last of office today....so my gsd and I can go back ourside and play in the snow....more like she plays...I play vicariously by watching her! This is a great example of how I appreciate Mark Forster's (and my dad's)....stay current or ahead to grab at the brass ring! He'd say lots of this stuff to teach us not to grump so much about work!......I STILL grump about it! LOL!
learning as I go
LOL!......I have actually vacuumed my bathroom......when my gsd is blowing her undercoat, I need to vacuum before I can mop!
I'm not sure where the work first came from.....possibly a combination of the pleasure of a free mind with no nagging. My dad used to call it "worst first". I also think we all learned it in school. To learn and achieve in school is similar to learning and achieving in life. Plan, achieve...plan, enjoy with PLENTY of flex time included. We were also taught to stay current to better receive the flux of life....emergencies and opportunities alike.
It used to feel easy enough,.....now it feels like I'm giving birth to a pineapple! LOL!....but it's worth it overall....all things considered. LOL! Opps.....2:15 to 3:00 last of office today....so my gsd and I can go back ourside and play in the snow....more like she plays...I play vicariously by watching her! This is a great example of how I appreciate Mark Forster's (and my dad's)....stay current or ahead to grab at the brass ring! He'd say lots of this stuff to teach us not to grump so much about work!......I STILL grump about it! LOL!
learning as I go
January 19, 2009 at 19:06 |
learning as I go
learning as I go
Hi Silvia!
I just had to say hello before 2:15 LOL! I, too, am still learning how to wrap my head around AF and what I've always done........I've always loved both routines/plan and flex time. Now, everything takes more oomph! LOL!
I hope you find your pretty shoes on sale!
gsdsmiles
I just had to say hello before 2:15 LOL! I, too, am still learning how to wrap my head around AF and what I've always done........I've always loved both routines/plan and flex time. Now, everything takes more oomph! LOL!
I hope you find your pretty shoes on sale!
gsdsmiles
January 19, 2009 at 19:12 |
learning as I go
learning as I go
Silvia - how can you love your dentist!! - that's just weird .......! (LOL)
learning as I go - I can't stop laughing over your pineapple comment! :-)
learning as I go - I can't stop laughing over your pineapple comment! :-)
January 19, 2009 at 19:30 |
Christine B
Christine B
I don't have anything really edifying to add here, but I just wanted to say to Sylvia: OMG! I thought I was the only person who liked going to the dentist. Their chairs are absolutely the most relaxing chairs.
Lenore
Lenore
January 19, 2009 at 23:00 |
Lenore
Lenore
Chairs are great! Shame about the dentists!
January 19, 2009 at 23:04 |
Christine B
Christine B
-David