Discussion Forum > Autofocus Flowchart
Thank you Seraphim. I've printed it out and added 'look through AF flow chart' to my AF list. I think that will 'stand out' pretty quickly
February 7, 2009 at 9:57 |
Helen
Likewise - thanks for that Seraphim
February 7, 2009 at 10:38 |
Christine B
Thank you.
February 8, 2009 at 0:37 |
Greenchutney
In my version of the flowchart I had notincluded the setup. I thought of having an off-page connector to set up the system but did not even do that. I think simpler is best, but maybe that off-page connector idea was something I should have done. However, YMMV. ;-)
February 10, 2009 at 10:42 |
Mike
Hi Mike
I just wanted to say another thank you for the link to the "Text/Internet Speak" you provided previously. I keep it in my OneNote Notebook so can refer to it each time there's an abbreviation I am not familiar with.
I just wanted to say another thank you for the link to the "Text/Internet Speak" you provided previously. I keep it in my OneNote Notebook so can refer to it each time there's an abbreviation I am not familiar with.
February 10, 2009 at 11:07 |
Christine B
ps link for anyone else who would find it helpful is
http://www.netlingo.com/emailsh.cfm
http://www.netlingo.com/emailsh.cfm
February 10, 2009 at 11:09 |
Christine B
Wow! My first impression was that this flowchart is more complicated than I've ever expected.
I guess there have to be some way to write it is simpler flowchart...even GTD flowchart is not that complicated :)
I guess there have to be some way to write it is simpler flowchart...even GTD flowchart is not that complicated :)
February 10, 2009 at 12:32 |
Krewetka
Hmm. Not sure what one's supposed to do when you reach a 'STOP'. Seems kind of final :) Should a system like this be a perpetual system, that is, it doesn't stop, it's just that right now you might not be looking at your active page/notebook? Presumably the 'stops' should just lead back to 'start'? But that would make the flow chart visually more complex.
February 10, 2009 at 14:04 |
David D
So this is what autofocus looks like to a linear processor! I learn something everyday. Thanks for the insight.
learning as I go
learning as I go
February 10, 2009 at 15:30 |
learning as I go
learning as I go:
lol
lol
February 10, 2009 at 17:42 |
Mark Forster
@learning: Yep, if I can't conceive of a time-management system as a completed closed system, it makes me nervous to use it. Something you could use to write a computer program to run it. I guess that makes me a "linear thinker".
There are some other things you could do to tweak the chart, to simplify it and make is less like a programmer's flowchart, but still keep it as a closed system. I'll add it to my list to take another stab at it. :-)
There are some other things you could do to tweak the chart, to simplify it and make is less like a programmer's flowchart, but still keep it as a closed system. I'll add it to my list to take another stab at it. :-)
February 10, 2009 at 19:21 |
Seraphim
[Some posts deleted at the poster's request.]
February 12, 2009 at 11:48 |
Mark Forster
Hi Seraphim,
It might help you to relax if you realize that life is not a linear system ;-) I don't suppose it is really a closed system, either. ;-)
On the flow chart: there is a limit to how simple you can make it. When I did the first flow chart (several weeks ago now) I was surprised at how complicated it really is. There are so many things that are easily expressed in words "like work on that page until nothing stands out" which are not easily expressed in a flowchart. By the time you are done, there are lots of tests and loops. And just think if you included the tweaks that some of us have made. Just adding tags tot he items introduces another level of tests and loops ... for each tag!
But they sure look purtty ;-)
It might help you to relax if you realize that life is not a linear system ;-) I don't suppose it is really a closed system, either. ;-)
On the flow chart: there is a limit to how simple you can make it. When I did the first flow chart (several weeks ago now) I was surprised at how complicated it really is. There are so many things that are easily expressed in words "like work on that page until nothing stands out" which are not easily expressed in a flowchart. By the time you are done, there are lots of tests and loops. And just think if you included the tweaks that some of us have made. Just adding tags tot he items introduces another level of tests and loops ... for each tag!
But they sure look purtty ;-)
February 12, 2009 at 13:21 |
Mike
I find flow charts fascinating but don't use them extensively. But I wonder what it says about me that one of my first thoughts was I wonder if this was done with Visio!
February 12, 2009 at 13:40 |
Christine B
"There are so many things that are easily expressed in words like 'work on that page until nothing stands out' which are not easily expressed in a flowchart."
In those cases it makes more sense to use those simple words than a ridiculously overwrought flowchart. Unless you are trying to convert the process to a software application, I don't see the value in flowcharting such a simple concept.
In those cases it makes more sense to use those simple words than a ridiculously overwrought flowchart. Unless you are trying to convert the process to a software application, I don't see the value in flowcharting such a simple concept.
February 18, 2009 at 6:13 |
L.T.
Hi L.T.
Although I don't use flowcharts extensively, they are an incredibly useful tool for graphically representing a process. The difficulty sometimes of grasping a process has little to do with the simplicity or complexity of the process itself but with the preferred method of thinking.
For example, someone trained in mathematical analysis will probably want to understand every detail of a process, in which case a flowchart is a fantastic tool. However someone who works more in a creative environment may be more used to the "bigger picture" approach and would perhaps feel flowcharts unnecessary.
Perhaps the best example of how the style of thinking comes out most is in the use of a product manual. Some people will wish to read the manual in detail before plugging in the new DVD recorder or whatever. Others will just get started and only refer to the manual in case of something specific they wish to know. Neither method is "wrong" but just illustrates the differences in approach to the same task.
Although I don't use flowcharts extensively, they are an incredibly useful tool for graphically representing a process. The difficulty sometimes of grasping a process has little to do with the simplicity or complexity of the process itself but with the preferred method of thinking.
For example, someone trained in mathematical analysis will probably want to understand every detail of a process, in which case a flowchart is a fantastic tool. However someone who works more in a creative environment may be more used to the "bigger picture" approach and would perhaps feel flowcharts unnecessary.
Perhaps the best example of how the style of thinking comes out most is in the use of a product manual. Some people will wish to read the manual in detail before plugging in the new DVD recorder or whatever. Others will just get started and only refer to the manual in case of something specific they wish to know. Neither method is "wrong" but just illustrates the differences in approach to the same task.
February 18, 2009 at 10:04 |
Christine B
Sigh - wish I'd seen this one before I spent an hour or three doing my own:
http://darklingwood.typepad.com/autofocus.pdf
But I agree with whoever said it was complicated. AF is very easy to hold in your head; much less so to write down precisely as an algorithm.
http://darklingwood.typepad.com/autofocus.pdf
But I agree with whoever said it was complicated. AF is very easy to hold in your head; much less so to write down precisely as an algorithm.
February 18, 2009 at 13:36 |
Tommy
The complexity of the flowchart also depends on the balance between how much is explicitly captured in the flowchart, and how much is implied. You can simplify quite a lot if you leave certain things as implied or understood. The problem with that approach is you then leave things open to misunderstanding.
My flowchart tends more toward the explicitly-define-every-step approach, whereas Tommy's is simpler but assumes a bit more about what the reader is expected to understand. I personally prefer Tommy's approach, but tried to be more explicit in my own flowchart, since there has been so much misunderstanding about when to dismiss things, when to move on to the next page, and so on.
It's also possible to use a modular approach, with a simpler overall flowchart, with optional additional details for each step. But it's not always easy to break things down into the appropriate modules.
My flowchart tends more toward the explicitly-define-every-step approach, whereas Tommy's is simpler but assumes a bit more about what the reader is expected to understand. I personally prefer Tommy's approach, but tried to be more explicit in my own flowchart, since there has been so much misunderstanding about when to dismiss things, when to move on to the next page, and so on.
It's also possible to use a modular approach, with a simpler overall flowchart, with optional additional details for each step. But it's not always easy to break things down into the appropriate modules.
February 18, 2009 at 17:11 |
Seraphim
Some processes just aren't easy to flowchart or describe as an algorithm -- much easier to show. E.g., tying your shows, riding a bicycle, driving a car.
February 18, 2009 at 17:14 |
Seraphim
I'm glad I'm not the only geek who couldn't resist making a flowchart! :)
My goal was to make something to print and paste on the inside cover of the notebook I'm using (which happens to be ~14cm x 24cm (~5.5"x9.5"), particularly to use as reference while getting used to the system. (I'm not there yet... I keep letting myself get distracted instead of actually using the list.) It was definitely tough to get the details to fit in the space I had available, but I think I did pretty well.
http://screencast.com/t/j4IEjWl5
My goal was to make something to print and paste on the inside cover of the notebook I'm using (which happens to be ~14cm x 24cm (~5.5"x9.5"), particularly to use as reference while getting used to the system. (I'm not there yet... I keep letting myself get distracted instead of actually using the list.) It was definitely tough to get the details to fit in the space I had available, but I think I did pretty well.
http://screencast.com/t/j4IEjWl5
February 26, 2009 at 14:53 |
Qrystal
I started creating a flowchart to identify the handling of post. I have the posters of AutoFocus flowcharts to thank for this rather sad state :-(
February 26, 2009 at 16:07 |
Christine B
Qrystal - really nice flowchart! You really managed to keep it simple while conveying a lot of information. Kudos!
Christine B - lol! Geekiness is contagious :-)
Christine B - lol! Geekiness is contagious :-)
February 27, 2009 at 5:32 |
Almond
Thanks Almond!
:) and I love flow charts. I made that one using VUE from Tufts University, which is a concept mapping program that can handle all kinds of diagramming.
:) and I love flow charts. I made that one using VUE from Tufts University, which is a concept mapping program that can handle all kinds of diagramming.
March 1, 2009 at 6:34 |
Qrystal
VUE looks great! Thanks for the info.
March 1, 2009 at 20:27 |
Almond
Hi Qrystal,
I like your flow-chart. I have the other great ones from folks on here as pdf files. Is there any chance you could post or send to me your flow-chart as a pdf?
Thanks,
-David
I like your flow-chart. I have the other great ones from folks on here as pdf files. Is there any chance you could post or send to me your flow-chart as a pdf?
Thanks,
-David
March 2, 2009 at 21:10 |
David Drake
Hi David
As I know you're a One Note fan, what I've done with a lot of the links, files and recommendations from the forum is to print, send or screen clip them to One Note - it keeps them all at hand in my OneNote AutoFocus notebook.
As I know you're a One Note fan, what I've done with a lot of the links, files and recommendations from the forum is to print, send or screen clip them to One Note - it keeps them all at hand in my OneNote AutoFocus notebook.
March 2, 2009 at 21:33 |
Christine B
Hi Christine B,
Yep -- me too! But thanks for the excellent advice -- as always!
-David
Yep -- me too! But thanks for the excellent advice -- as always!
-David
March 2, 2009 at 22:18 |
David Drake
Here's a link to a PDF of Qrystal's flowchart: http://seraphim37.googlepages.com/2009-02-26_0944.pdf
March 3, 2009 at 0:38 |
Seraphim
I've seen several posts (both here and at the Yahoo Group) from people who think that you are supposed to dismiss things after your second time processing a page.
If that's how you are thinking it's supposed to work, maybe one of the flowcharts mentioned in this thread will help clarify that.
If that's how you are thinking it's supposed to work, maybe one of the flowcharts mentioned in this thread will help clarify that.
March 14, 2009 at 20:00 |
Seraphim
Mark's system is so simple, I'm baffled as to why anyone would waste their time and effort on something like this. I guess it beats working, eh?
March 15, 2009 at 12:12 |
Trevor
Trevor, I think some people are just highly visual, especially if they've spent a lot of time in a visio-world.
I used to have the GTD flowchart tacked in front of my computer - it just made me feel bad that I couldn't use the system. :-)
I used to have the GTD flowchart tacked in front of my computer - it just made me feel bad that I couldn't use the system. :-)
March 16, 2009 at 0:59 |
Jacqueline
Hi Guys,
Just have a look at the very simple flow chart @ http://files.me.com/stefano.f.rausch/tb9ice. There's still room for improvement from a layout PoV ... ;)
Cheers
Just have a look at the very simple flow chart @ http://files.me.com/stefano.f.rausch/tb9ice. There's still room for improvement from a layout PoV ... ;)
Cheers
April 9, 2009 at 8:54 |
Stefano F. Rausch
I really like this. It finally looks as simple as it is. A clear flowchart really can be a good tool for visually oriented folks.
Qrystal's explains the steps better, but that usually isn't the purpose of a flowchart.
My only question is about the colored path. At first look, I thought the colored items reflected a decision point and the colored path reflected "NO" and the associated action. But that clearly isn't the case.
Qrystal's explains the steps better, but that usually isn't the purpose of a flowchart.
My only question is about the colored path. At first look, I thought the colored items reflected a decision point and the colored path reflected "NO" and the associated action. But that clearly isn't the case.
April 9, 2009 at 13:20 |
MartyH
The pleasure is on my side ... :)
Re your remark: the colored paths do only show crucial steps ... but I do acknowledge that it can be confusing.
Cheers
Re your remark: the colored paths do only show crucial steps ... but I do acknowledge that it can be confusing.
Cheers
April 9, 2009 at 14:09 |
Stefano F. Rausch
Is there a flowchart for AF2?
I would be interested in seeing it.
I would be interested in seeing it.
July 5, 2009 at 21:36 |
Qeran
Okay, I made one: http://autofocus.cc/public/data/af2-flowchart.png
It's not perfect - it does not cover the fact that you return to the end of the list if you reach the beginning of the list in the "go to next unactioned task" step, it does not include the setup up stage (like, when there is no "last line" etc.), and there is no end state, it's a endless loop.
If you have any suggestions for improvements or corrections of errors I made, I'll be glad to incorporate them.
It's not perfect - it does not cover the fact that you return to the end of the list if you reach the beginning of the list in the "go to next unactioned task" step, it does not include the setup up stage (like, when there is no "last line" etc.), and there is no end state, it's a endless loop.
If you have any suggestions for improvements or corrections of errors I made, I'll be glad to incorporate them.
July 5, 2009 at 22:59 |
Andreas Hofmann
Thanks Andreas. One key element you might want to add is the read through of the entire list before you start each day.
July 6, 2009 at 10:25 |
Jane P
Jane P: Thank you, I added that step. :-)
July 6, 2009 at 13:44 |
Andreas Hofmann
Andreas,
Thank you. I find it very helpful.
Thank you. I find it very helpful.
July 6, 2009 at 20:00 |
moises
Andreas,
Thank you, thank you.
It really helps.
Thank you, thank you.
It really helps.
July 7, 2009 at 9:38 |
Qeran
Hi Andreas,
Two problems I see (I think, I'm still a bit groggy this morning ;-)
1) Firstly, there is no way to move backward on the list. You continually go back to the last task.
2) Secondly, since you write the unfinished task on the end of the list, you keep going back to that until it is finished ... you can never get back to it "later".
3) Oh, thirdly I guess, when you go to the end of the list, did you mention that you work only on active tasks?
It is kind of tough to do flowcharts for this kind of thing. I found that the wording gets more and more involved until you you wind up back at a text description.
Two problems I see (I think, I'm still a bit groggy this morning ;-)
1) Firstly, there is no way to move backward on the list. You continually go back to the last task.
2) Secondly, since you write the unfinished task on the end of the list, you keep going back to that until it is finished ... you can never get back to it "later".
3) Oh, thirdly I guess, when you go to the end of the list, did you mention that you work only on active tasks?
It is kind of tough to do flowcharts for this kind of thing. I found that the wording gets more and more involved until you you wind up back at a text description.
July 8, 2009 at 9:33 |
Mike
Hi Mike!
1) Yes there is: "Go to the last task on the list" -> "Does that task stand out?" -no-> "Go to the next unactioned task before the current one" -> "Does that task stand out?" - The last question is not about the same task as the previous one anymore.
2) You don't have to keep doing it until it is finished, you write just answer "no" to the question wether it stands out. In what order do you do the steps if you rewrite a task to the end of the list? I first rewrite it, then I work from there - but usually I don't do the task I just rewrote again.
3) Well, I do say "go to the next unactioned task before the current one", but I don't say "go to the last unactioned task on the list", it's just "last task", I'll change that, thanks.
1) Yes there is: "Go to the last task on the list" -> "Does that task stand out?" -no-> "Go to the next unactioned task before the current one" -> "Does that task stand out?" - The last question is not about the same task as the previous one anymore.
2) You don't have to keep doing it until it is finished, you write just answer "no" to the question wether it stands out. In what order do you do the steps if you rewrite a task to the end of the list? I first rewrite it, then I work from there - but usually I don't do the task I just rewrote again.
3) Well, I do say "go to the next unactioned task before the current one", but I don't say "go to the last unactioned task on the list", it's just "last task", I'll change that, thanks.
July 8, 2009 at 9:46 |
Andreas Hofmann
Andreas,
Sorry, I did not mean to sound picky. After all, you've produced a very nice tool and simply given it away.
My only thinking in making the comment is that the main audience for that flowchart will be people who don't know the system ... after all, we don't really need a flowchart now. For those who don't understand the system and are looking at a flow chart, it probably should be very precise in covering every possibility in a way that they can understand.
Again, I was not intending to be picky, just offering feedback I thought might help the bewildered who did not understand the system. ;-)
Sorry, I did not mean to sound picky. After all, you've produced a very nice tool and simply given it away.
My only thinking in making the comment is that the main audience for that flowchart will be people who don't know the system ... after all, we don't really need a flowchart now. For those who don't understand the system and are looking at a flow chart, it probably should be very precise in covering every possibility in a way that they can understand.
Again, I was not intending to be picky, just offering feedback I thought might help the bewildered who did not understand the system. ;-)
July 8, 2009 at 20:39 |
Mike
Hi Mike, I didn't think you sounded picky, so no worries. I just can't see issues 1 and 2. Perhaps it's because I made the flowchart myself, but it does seem clear to me that you're not stuck on the last item. ;-)
July 8, 2009 at 22:11 |
Andreas Hofmann
Heh, hi all ... thanks Seraphim for posting the pdf of my flowchart for David. I've been away from here, mostly because I haven't actually been using Autofocus. And then there came this "new" version to ignore for awhile... I haven't tried it yet, but it looks interesting.
Anyways, I just wanted to say that my flowchart was indeed a "better than working" thing to do. It also helped me understand the processes involved, so I could decide whether it seemed it would work for me. (I guess forgetting to ever open the notebook again was a sign that my intuition didn't think this would work for me.)
When (or if) I restart Autofocus with the new version or mode or whatever, I'll probably make up a flowchart then as well, just so I can get a grasp of how the whole system ... flows. (Imagine that: a flowchart shows flows! :P) I'll probably wait until I reboot my life after my thesis is done... because right now, every list I make seems to take me away from my thesis. No more lists! Just DO the damn thing!
Anyways, I just wanted to say that my flowchart was indeed a "better than working" thing to do. It also helped me understand the processes involved, so I could decide whether it seemed it would work for me. (I guess forgetting to ever open the notebook again was a sign that my intuition didn't think this would work for me.)
When (or if) I restart Autofocus with the new version or mode or whatever, I'll probably make up a flowchart then as well, just so I can get a grasp of how the whole system ... flows. (Imagine that: a flowchart shows flows! :P) I'll probably wait until I reboot my life after my thesis is done... because right now, every list I make seems to take me away from my thesis. No more lists! Just DO the damn thing!
July 27, 2009 at 17:35 |
Qrystal
http://seraphim37.googlepages.com/AutofocusFlowchartrev01.pdf