Discussion Forum > Dismiss? I don't get it.
I wouldn't dismiss in any of those situations described if I had made some sort of attempt to get in touch with them.
Dismiss just means you aren't going to do it - right now anyway.
Dismiss just means you aren't going to do it - right now anyway.
March 18, 2009 at 3:57 |
Jacqueline
Jacqueline
"Dismiss" means you have decided (de facto) not to take any action right now. The items are "dismissed" and are no longer considered as open tasks. Maybe later, you can review them and try to figure out why you dismissed them (i.e., why they didn't "stand out"), and decide whether to enter them back onto your list.
"Dismiss" is totally different than "complete" or "finish" or "delete since it's irrelevant now". In all the examples you gave, I'd say that you "mark as completed" and then rewrite as needed at the end of your list. E.g., mark "call smiths to invite for picnic" as completed, and then add it again, in rewritten form, at the end of your list.
"Dismiss" means that the tasks didn't stand out at all, and you decided not to take any action (at least at the time).
"Dismiss" is totally different than "complete" or "finish" or "delete since it's irrelevant now". In all the examples you gave, I'd say that you "mark as completed" and then rewrite as needed at the end of your list. E.g., mark "call smiths to invite for picnic" as completed, and then add it again, in rewritten form, at the end of your list.
"Dismiss" means that the tasks didn't stand out at all, and you decided not to take any action (at least at the time).
March 18, 2009 at 5:57 |
Seraphim
Seraphim
To add to the excellent comments...
When you dismiss a task you are recognizing that you do not WANT to do it. It got on your list because it flitted through your brain ... BUT it was not really a well-formed "task". It was more of a wish, inclination, or dream, perhaps. The power of AF is that it automatically flushes out those things, which are not well-formed tasks, and leaves you free to consider ONLY those things which are things you really do want to do. If you understand that, the concept of dismissal makes loads of sense.
It also makes loads of sense if you realize that those dismissed tasks are not forever banished to the depths of Hades ... they remain in your old pages, highlighted to be considered again, someday ... maybe ;-) If on further consideration ... next month or next year ... you decide that you really do want to jump off of bridges with rubber bands tied to your ankles, you can put the task back on the list and proceed to do it ;-)
When you dismiss a task you are recognizing that you do not WANT to do it. It got on your list because it flitted through your brain ... BUT it was not really a well-formed "task". It was more of a wish, inclination, or dream, perhaps. The power of AF is that it automatically flushes out those things, which are not well-formed tasks, and leaves you free to consider ONLY those things which are things you really do want to do. If you understand that, the concept of dismissal makes loads of sense.
It also makes loads of sense if you realize that those dismissed tasks are not forever banished to the depths of Hades ... they remain in your old pages, highlighted to be considered again, someday ... maybe ;-) If on further consideration ... next month or next year ... you decide that you really do want to jump off of bridges with rubber bands tied to your ankles, you can put the task back on the list and proceed to do it ;-)
March 18, 2009 at 11:43 |
Mike
Mike
Elspeth:
In your example about the Smiths, none of the examples you mention would involve dismissing the task. You would simply cross the task out as done, and add the subsequent tasks to the list or calendar as you have indicated.
Dismissing a task and deleting a task are not the same thing. You can delete a task at any time when you decide it is no longer relevant or no longer possible, or that you have simply decided not to do it at all. Deleted tasks are crossed out like any other completed task.
"Dismissal" happens when you are faced with the choice: "Am I going to do this task now, or face up to the fact that I'm not going to do it at all?" It usually happens after you have had multiple chances to do the task. Tasks which have been dismissed in this way can be reviewed in order to see why they were dismissed. It's a good idea to have a task "Review dismissed tasks" as a recurrent item on your list.
In your example about the Smiths, none of the examples you mention would involve dismissing the task. You would simply cross the task out as done, and add the subsequent tasks to the list or calendar as you have indicated.
Dismissing a task and deleting a task are not the same thing. You can delete a task at any time when you decide it is no longer relevant or no longer possible, or that you have simply decided not to do it at all. Deleted tasks are crossed out like any other completed task.
"Dismissal" happens when you are faced with the choice: "Am I going to do this task now, or face up to the fact that I'm not going to do it at all?" It usually happens after you have had multiple chances to do the task. Tasks which have been dismissed in this way can be reviewed in order to see why they were dismissed. It's a good idea to have a task "Review dismissed tasks" as a recurrent item on your list.
March 18, 2009 at 11:58 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
It is a slight irony of the way the AF instructions are phrased that "dismiss" sounds so - well... - dismissive, whereas in many ways what "dismiss" really seems to mean is "give some *especially* hard thought to what this is doing on my list" - in other words, not dismissal at all!
March 18, 2009 at 12:59 |
Ludlow
Ludlow
Yes, there has been a bit of discussion about that word, but I'm not sure anyone has proposed a better one. I still like "someday/maybe" from GtD. It so perfectly sums up how I see it. Bu then that is just me.
March 18, 2009 at 15:16 |
Mike
Mike
Ludlow:
It's more like someone losing their job and having to ask themselves hard questions about why they got dismissed.
It's more like someone losing their job and having to ask themselves hard questions about why they got dismissed.
March 18, 2009 at 15:19 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
I delete by putting a thick wavy line through the item.
March 18, 2009 at 15:22 |
Jacqueline
Jacqueline
Mark, above wrote:
"You can delete a task at any time when you . . . have simply decided not to do it at all. . ."
"'Dismissal' happens when you are faced with the choice: 'Am I going to do this task now, or face up to the fact that I'm not going to do it at all?'"
I need some clarification. It sounds as if dismissal is the same as deletion when I decide not to do a task at all.
"You can delete a task at any time when you . . . have simply decided not to do it at all. . ."
"'Dismissal' happens when you are faced with the choice: 'Am I going to do this task now, or face up to the fact that I'm not going to do it at all?'"
I need some clarification. It sounds as if dismissal is the same as deletion when I decide not to do a task at all.
March 18, 2009 at 17:50 |
moises
moises
Not quite, Moises. Dismissed items are "I'm not going to do it RIGHT NOW." A critical part of the system is going back and REVIEWING those dismissed items at a later date. I personally review my dismissed items once a week, but I'm thinking about extending that to biweekly review.
Some examples from my own AF book may help clarify the difference:
Dismissed: scanning a page of my AF book to post to the AF flickr group. I might still do it, some other time.
Deleted: Report gas meter reading. The meter reader came back at a time when I was home, so there is no possible action for me to take on this task.
Some examples from my own AF book may help clarify the difference:
Dismissed: scanning a page of my AF book to post to the AF flickr group. I might still do it, some other time.
Deleted: Report gas meter reading. The meter reader came back at a time when I was home, so there is no possible action for me to take on this task.
March 18, 2009 at 18:04 |
Sarah
Sarah
In AF, dismissal would happen when you come to a page for the first time (in that session) and you do nothing on the items left on this page. You then dismiss each of the remaining items with a highlighter. This is only likely to happen if you have gone through the page many times. I will sometimes go through a page eight or ten times before I get to the last few that are just not going to get done. Keep in mind that all you have to do is a couple of minutes on one task in order to allow you to keep the list.
There are exceptions I suppose. I was working some AF last Friday and my active page had only four tasks that I could only do on Saturday (some important but straightforward yard work). I really could do nothing on them Friday night (and had no reason to do anything then anyway.) There were, however, several items on the next page I could do that evening. According to the rules, because I did nothing on the four tasks on the first page, I should dismiss them. But that would be silly. I went to the second page and started there and did the yard work on Saturday.
There are exceptions I suppose. I was working some AF last Friday and my active page had only four tasks that I could only do on Saturday (some important but straightforward yard work). I really could do nothing on them Friday night (and had no reason to do anything then anyway.) There were, however, several items on the next page I could do that evening. According to the rules, because I did nothing on the four tasks on the first page, I should dismiss them. But that would be silly. I went to the second page and started there and did the yard work on Saturday.
March 18, 2009 at 20:04 |
Chris
Chris
For me 'dismiss' means 'dismiss from immediate attention'
So when looking through the page I no longer focus on it immediately.
But it remains something that can be considered in the future, eg through review.
So when looking through the page I no longer focus on it immediately.
But it remains something that can be considered in the future, eg through review.
March 18, 2009 at 23:37 |
smileypete
smileypete
Is everyone trying to provide a metaphorical way to look at a "dismissal".
Moises,
If you go to a page and nothing stands out on the first pass through you dismiss each item on that page. It is quite simple. We don't "decide" which items to dismiss at all. It just happens as a result of following the rules (or more precisely, it is the natural result of having passed through the system multiple times without doing anything on that item.) One problem with most to-do lists is that they fill up with crap that we are afraid to remove. AF forces us to just let go.
Sarah,
Dismissed items are just dismissed. They are dismissed as part of the standard rules of AF. They don't have to mean anything at all other than that you did not do anything on the item despite numerous chances. That is it. Deleting is not part of the rules and is hence more of a meta procedure. In a sense, I think deleting is more personal, because it can only happen in the system if you consciously choose to delete something. Just following the rules you will probably dismiss.
Moises,
If you go to a page and nothing stands out on the first pass through you dismiss each item on that page. It is quite simple. We don't "decide" which items to dismiss at all. It just happens as a result of following the rules (or more precisely, it is the natural result of having passed through the system multiple times without doing anything on that item.) One problem with most to-do lists is that they fill up with crap that we are afraid to remove. AF forces us to just let go.
Sarah,
Dismissed items are just dismissed. They are dismissed as part of the standard rules of AF. They don't have to mean anything at all other than that you did not do anything on the item despite numerous chances. That is it. Deleting is not part of the rules and is hence more of a meta procedure. In a sense, I think deleting is more personal, because it can only happen in the system if you consciously choose to delete something. Just following the rules you will probably dismiss.
March 19, 2009 at 0:12 |
Chris
Chris
"If you go to a page and nothing stands out on the first pass through you dismiss each item on that page. It is quite simple. We don't "decide" which items to dismiss at all. It just happens as a result of following the rules"
This is interesting. At the moment, if I get to the last few items on a page and nothing "stands out", but I KNOW that I really need to do something on one of them, I will gruellingly and rather reluctantly take some action on it, so as not to dismiss it. I don't really mind, since it's a way of inching my most unpleasant projects forward. But are there people using AF who are dismissing items even though they're CERTAIN they'll have to do them before very long, but they just don't happen to stand out?
This is interesting. At the moment, if I get to the last few items on a page and nothing "stands out", but I KNOW that I really need to do something on one of them, I will gruellingly and rather reluctantly take some action on it, so as not to dismiss it. I don't really mind, since it's a way of inching my most unpleasant projects forward. But are there people using AF who are dismissing items even though they're CERTAIN they'll have to do them before very long, but they just don't happen to stand out?
March 19, 2009 at 0:22 |
Ludlow
Ludlow
Hi Ludlow
Chris is totally correct - there is a real reluctance to dismiss items generally - I've just posted the following in the "Fear to Dismiss" thread which I'll copy below to save you searching :-)
"Interesting though the intense desire not to dismiss. I have to date only dismissed 3 items (although now have more lined up ready when I get back to the pages .....) I think for me it was that link to a feeling of failure. It is hard to get out of the idea that if we dismiss we have failed to do ....
In fact the process is merely a standard rule and doesn't need the intense amount of soul searching we do when a task gets to that stage - "if it doesn't stand out on the first pass dismiss it" - there you are - simple! What do we do? Change the rule to "if it doesn't stand out on the first pass agonise over why you really must do it or be forever branded the most useless specimen who ever walked the earth. Then, make a cup of coffee, agonise some more, work out how little you can do just so you are not that useless specimen, decide it is time for another coffee, grit your teeth and do something." Then you can rewrite it on your last page and go through the whole process again! What fun:-) "
Even though I know it's "just a rule" I personally have turned it into something closer to the "expanded rule" which has delayed my completion of a number of pages! I am now looking forward to dismissing as I go back to my early pages!
Chris is totally correct - there is a real reluctance to dismiss items generally - I've just posted the following in the "Fear to Dismiss" thread which I'll copy below to save you searching :-)
"Interesting though the intense desire not to dismiss. I have to date only dismissed 3 items (although now have more lined up ready when I get back to the pages .....) I think for me it was that link to a feeling of failure. It is hard to get out of the idea that if we dismiss we have failed to do ....
In fact the process is merely a standard rule and doesn't need the intense amount of soul searching we do when a task gets to that stage - "if it doesn't stand out on the first pass dismiss it" - there you are - simple! What do we do? Change the rule to "if it doesn't stand out on the first pass agonise over why you really must do it or be forever branded the most useless specimen who ever walked the earth. Then, make a cup of coffee, agonise some more, work out how little you can do just so you are not that useless specimen, decide it is time for another coffee, grit your teeth and do something." Then you can rewrite it on your last page and go through the whole process again! What fun:-) "
Even though I know it's "just a rule" I personally have turned it into something closer to the "expanded rule" which has delayed my completion of a number of pages! I am now looking forward to dismissing as I go back to my early pages!
March 19, 2009 at 1:23 |
Christine B
Christine B
Is this a reasonable analogy?
I have 5 shelves in the rerigerator. I fill the top one first, then the seond one down. I am hungry. I look at each item. on the top shelf only. I take an apple, from the top shelf. I don't finish it so I return it to the thrid shelf down. Later, I go to the shops and upon returning I fill the rest of the third shelf. I make dinner from only what is on the top shelf and put the left over on the third shelf. I don't eat anything from the second shelf until the first shelf is empty either becasue I have eaten it or decided it is inedible. and thrown it out
I have 5 shelves in the rerigerator. I fill the top one first, then the seond one down. I am hungry. I look at each item. on the top shelf only. I take an apple, from the top shelf. I don't finish it so I return it to the thrid shelf down. Later, I go to the shops and upon returning I fill the rest of the third shelf. I make dinner from only what is on the top shelf and put the left over on the third shelf. I don't eat anything from the second shelf until the first shelf is empty either becasue I have eaten it or decided it is inedible. and thrown it out
March 24, 2009 at 5:36 |
Elspeth
Elspeth
Not quite, Elspeth.
You select ingredients from whatever appeals to you on the top shelf. If necessary, you go on to look at the second shelf. If nothing from the second shelf appeals, you clear it to the freezer and go on to the third shelf, and so on...
You prepare a delicious and nourishing meal, returning any unused ingredients to the lowest shelf in use (the lowest shelf with food on it, or the next one down if it is full).
Any time you think of something you might like, you have it delivered instantly and put it on the lowest shelf in use.
You have a fridge with shelves which take from 20 to 40 ingredients each, displayed so you can see them all. And a handy button to shuffle empty shelves to the bottom. An interesting design challenge for someone...
(You never clear your freezer, but every so often you go through it and pull out anything that you think might appeal to you, defrosting it instantly and putting it on the lowest shelf in use.)
You select ingredients from whatever appeals to you on the top shelf. If necessary, you go on to look at the second shelf. If nothing from the second shelf appeals, you clear it to the freezer and go on to the third shelf, and so on...
You prepare a delicious and nourishing meal, returning any unused ingredients to the lowest shelf in use (the lowest shelf with food on it, or the next one down if it is full).
Any time you think of something you might like, you have it delivered instantly and put it on the lowest shelf in use.
You have a fridge with shelves which take from 20 to 40 ingredients each, displayed so you can see them all. And a handy button to shuffle empty shelves to the bottom. An interesting design challenge for someone...
(You never clear your freezer, but every so often you go through it and pull out anything that you think might appeal to you, defrosting it instantly and putting it on the lowest shelf in use.)
March 24, 2009 at 7:58 |
Will
Will
LOL! Will - that's absolutely brilliant!
March 24, 2009 at 9:42 |
Christine B
Christine B
What does "dismiss" signify?
Does it mean you have decided the item is not relevant (a dead end or something you have outgrown or has become impossible) , or has it been better defined elsewhere, exapnded or refined , or superceded?
Let's say, the item is "Call Smiths to invite for picnic" . Before you get to it, you learn they are out of town for weekend
Do you dismiss that and maybe write at the bottom of latest page "Next weekend, call Smiths for picnic'? Or, write "call Smiths" on calendar and wrtie "check calender re:Smiths" on the AF list?
Let's say you call but you don't have the right number, would you dismiss and write in "write note and drop in Smiths' mail box"?
Or, let's say you learn that the Smiths have actaully moved away, might you dismiss the picnic entry and write on latest page "Call Jones and get Smith's new address"?