Discussion Forum > Computer to Paper... ACK!
I am trying AF using My Life Organised as we use it for project collaboration at work, but feel very drawn to simple paper based system without project outlining, goes against years of experience using GTD etc. but cant help feeling drawn to AF paper based system. WIll no doubt bite the bullet and trial a paper based system next week.
April 29, 2009 at 23:04 |
DD
DD
I would never have believed I would have so loved a paper system as I love computers and am a total confirmed techie. However paper works and that "ah ha" moment makes perfect sense!
One bizarre result of AF is that it has cut down on the amount of paper I use! I realised that, although I believed I did everything on the computer, I actually jotted down an incredible amount of stuff on paper, generally managed to lose or misplace it, and was forever wondering how it was that paper had such an amazing ability to breed when I wasn't looking. With AF I have a notebook - nearly everything gets written down in that, or added to it at an early opportunity. I use less paper! I am organised!
One bizarre result of AF is that it has cut down on the amount of paper I use! I realised that, although I believed I did everything on the computer, I actually jotted down an incredible amount of stuff on paper, generally managed to lose or misplace it, and was forever wondering how it was that paper had such an amazing ability to breed when I wasn't looking. With AF I have a notebook - nearly everything gets written down in that, or added to it at an early opportunity. I use less paper! I am organised!
April 29, 2009 at 23:36 |
Christine B
Christine B
It seems that many are that boat: wishing for the computer and sticking with the paper.
For me, there are times when I do wish I could extract certain categories of task from the One Great List which the computer version would easily allow, but that wish is always out-weighed by the overall convenience of paper...
For me, there are times when I do wish I could extract certain categories of task from the One Great List which the computer version would easily allow, but that wish is always out-weighed by the overall convenience of paper...
April 30, 2009 at 3:40 |
ds
ds
If I was stuck in front of my computer, I would use autofocus.cc. However I'm on the go, and need to capture ideas/to-dos on the fly. I tried mobile autofocus.cc, and was turned off by the speed i.e. slow. So paper it is.
April 30, 2009 at 4:18 |
Avrum
Avrum
I bought an iPod Touch right around the time I started using Autofocus. I thought I'd be able to use one of the great to-do or notepad apps. In the meantime, I had picked up a 3.5 x 5.5 inch Moleskine lined notebook from Barnes and Noble (three-pack for $10).
It's always with me, doesn't break in my back pocket, I can clip off the bottom corner of completed pages so I just stick my thumb in to turn to the first active page, and best of all, I can see 46 lines all at once; no iApps can do that. Thank goodness the iPod has so many other great apps! :)
It's always with me, doesn't break in my back pocket, I can clip off the bottom corner of completed pages so I just stick my thumb in to turn to the first active page, and best of all, I can see 46 lines all at once; no iApps can do that. Thank goodness the iPod has so many other great apps! :)
April 30, 2009 at 4:28 |
Ian Roberts
Ian Roberts
I tried evey app on Mac (i guess) over 120 ! from Omnifocus, to thing, to the hitlist, taskpaper, word pages, excel pages, Filemaker app, file maker own developpement Ohhhhh I spent o much time trying to find the best way to be organised.
What i can say is that autofocus is indeed the best system i never found. Of course there are still some little things wich still hurt me.
Such as I like working on projet and like having all tasks and note on the same place. If i just use AF all my task are on every pages (except some minilist on pages) so i can't see the all project. To realise that the best way i found to manage my active and non active project and all my stuff by project is for the moment to put them by project on Omnifocus or much better Taskpaper wich is great and simple.
After years of hard working on my stuff organization i realize that paper has the incredible power to make you apropriate the information in such a way that what else you use when it is written by you your brain find easy to get the following of your tasks.
With computer it's like in a huge warehouse. Everything is stoked but remember me... Where is it ? and what is all about ???.... No idea about this. I have to search and search again....
With paper all is easy ans immediatly accessible.
As fan of GTD i still have a lot of difficulties using it on paper for this method is adapted for computers. And as I hate the GTD context AF is perfect for me for collecting, processinf and do items and on paper it's easy.
What i can say is that autofocus is indeed the best system i never found. Of course there are still some little things wich still hurt me.
Such as I like working on projet and like having all tasks and note on the same place. If i just use AF all my task are on every pages (except some minilist on pages) so i can't see the all project. To realise that the best way i found to manage my active and non active project and all my stuff by project is for the moment to put them by project on Omnifocus or much better Taskpaper wich is great and simple.
After years of hard working on my stuff organization i realize that paper has the incredible power to make you apropriate the information in such a way that what else you use when it is written by you your brain find easy to get the following of your tasks.
With computer it's like in a huge warehouse. Everything is stoked but remember me... Where is it ? and what is all about ???.... No idea about this. I have to search and search again....
With paper all is easy ans immediatly accessible.
As fan of GTD i still have a lot of difficulties using it on paper for this method is adapted for computers. And as I hate the GTD context AF is perfect for me for collecting, processinf and do items and on paper it's easy.
April 30, 2009 at 8:17 |
Jupiter
Jupiter
ds
Have you tried OneNote? Sorry I can't recall if you have posted before as to whether you like/dislike One Note. For me it handles all of those niggles, such as extracting categories of tasks and I love that I can instantly print a list of dismissed items. For me my paper notebook with OneNote alongside to handle those admin type functions is perfection!
Have you tried OneNote? Sorry I can't recall if you have posted before as to whether you like/dislike One Note. For me it handles all of those niggles, such as extracting categories of tasks and I love that I can instantly print a list of dismissed items. For me my paper notebook with OneNote alongside to handle those admin type functions is perfection!
April 30, 2009 at 9:52 |
Christine B
Christine B
To Christine B: I have not tried OneNote. I'm on Macintosh, so I've tried some of the other programs here, namely TaskPaper, which allows printing as well as grouping by project or tag words--both features that I like.
For me it breaks down at "doing". I love collecting on the computer, but I find I work much better with the paper list in my hand.
I am currently printing out my list and seeing if that's the best of both worlds, but the synchronization by hand is somewhat onerous and I'm thinking I'll probably wind up with paper only.
For me it breaks down at "doing". I love collecting on the computer, but I find I work much better with the paper list in my hand.
I am currently printing out my list and seeing if that's the best of both worlds, but the synchronization by hand is somewhat onerous and I'm thinking I'll probably wind up with paper only.
April 30, 2009 at 12:35 |
ds
ds
>> but the synchronization by hand is somewhat onerous
#1 reason I loose faith in all my systems with the computer. I love the neatness of it all... but it ends there.
#1 reason I loose faith in all my systems with the computer. I love the neatness of it all... but it ends there.
April 30, 2009 at 14:59 |
Avrum
Avrum
Hi ds
I totally agree that it is the "paper list in hand" that works best. I find it helpful to look at extracted tagged lists of grouped tasks but found that they were not receptive to work lists. I use them more to get a quick visual overview or to use as the basis of a project review. I suspect it also helps relevant items to jump out more easily on a future pass!
I totally agree that it is the "paper list in hand" that works best. I find it helpful to look at extracted tagged lists of grouped tasks but found that they were not receptive to work lists. I use them more to get a quick visual overview or to use as the basis of a project review. I suspect it also helps relevant items to jump out more easily on a future pass!
April 30, 2009 at 15:13 |
Christine B
Christine B
I absolutly agree. I love using computer and program such as Taskpaper for the pobbibility of sorting stuff in every ways BUT I only trust paper. Computer is impersonal. GTD and organization software are non adapted to human beeings. The usual problêm is mostly that we ought to communicate with the machine. There is nothing like that with paper. For me the best computer is my brain. I only trust me. I dont trust the machine. I trust Human. Every time i wnt back to software it was a wash out. I never got any success with software.
The main reason that i need a system wich is a support to my brain. I need to have it everywhere. I need to feel it. I need to smell it ;)) I need to be material when i work. I need to keep stuck to the basic ground. I have to be concentrate on action or on negociation. Software destroy every kind of materiality. Software make information dematerialized. The vanished in the air and it's so difficult to keep touch on the ground or on the action.
So my position is clear about this : When computers will speak and think like human we shall speack about that.
Of course AF is not perfect. I am waiting impatiently the new rules MF invented. May be they will help me beeing more productive and efficient.
Also As i work with clients i need to be close them for negociating. The success of my deals are essential for me for i work for myself. For having tested both solution i realised that computers create distances between people what doesnt with a sheet of paper. More a simple sheet of paper is fully adaptable to every kind of situation. I can draw a mindmap, takes notes or tasks add date, copy notes, and much more the new info just goes directly to my mind what never happen with computers.
More when i detroy a sheet and put it in my real trash i feel happy and stress desappear. This never happen when i detroy a file on my mac and put it in the computer's trash.
The main reason that i need a system wich is a support to my brain. I need to have it everywhere. I need to feel it. I need to smell it ;)) I need to be material when i work. I need to keep stuck to the basic ground. I have to be concentrate on action or on negociation. Software destroy every kind of materiality. Software make information dematerialized. The vanished in the air and it's so difficult to keep touch on the ground or on the action.
So my position is clear about this : When computers will speak and think like human we shall speack about that.
Of course AF is not perfect. I am waiting impatiently the new rules MF invented. May be they will help me beeing more productive and efficient.
Also As i work with clients i need to be close them for negociating. The success of my deals are essential for me for i work for myself. For having tested both solution i realised that computers create distances between people what doesnt with a sheet of paper. More a simple sheet of paper is fully adaptable to every kind of situation. I can draw a mindmap, takes notes or tasks add date, copy notes, and much more the new info just goes directly to my mind what never happen with computers.
More when i detroy a sheet and put it in my real trash i feel happy and stress desappear. This never happen when i detroy a file on my mac and put it in the computer's trash.
April 30, 2009 at 17:46 |
Jupiter
Jupiter
This thread resonates with my own experience. I love MLO, and rushed to implement AF on it. It worked extremely well for a few weeks, and then, incrementally, my work flow started breaking down.
It was agonising, and at first, I thought it was AF itself - that somehow, it was not suitable for me. I switched to paper one evening when the frustation level had hit a crescendo.
Miraculously, my work came to life, as the living, breathing movement of pen touched paper. I was more involved with my tasks, and then came the horrible realisation. As much as I love software and all things digital and implementing my "stuff" there, it dawned upon me that I need to feel and touch my work. The computer and keyboard distanced me from it, and thus provided me an excuse to procrastinate and fail at my tasks.
It was horrible feeling because I have been a ametuer software junkie for the longest time. I thought digital was the only way to go with anything. All this time, it has been a wasted exercise, because paper and pen, something I grew up with, turned out to be the most suitable tool for me.
I credit AF to bringing this to the surface, because I chose to trust the system rather than the software I had used. Now, MLO and One Note still have their place, as repositories of lists and web cuttings, but the true heart of my AF system is pen and paper.
It was agonising, and at first, I thought it was AF itself - that somehow, it was not suitable for me. I switched to paper one evening when the frustation level had hit a crescendo.
Miraculously, my work came to life, as the living, breathing movement of pen touched paper. I was more involved with my tasks, and then came the horrible realisation. As much as I love software and all things digital and implementing my "stuff" there, it dawned upon me that I need to feel and touch my work. The computer and keyboard distanced me from it, and thus provided me an excuse to procrastinate and fail at my tasks.
It was horrible feeling because I have been a ametuer software junkie for the longest time. I thought digital was the only way to go with anything. All this time, it has been a wasted exercise, because paper and pen, something I grew up with, turned out to be the most suitable tool for me.
I credit AF to bringing this to the surface, because I chose to trust the system rather than the software I had used. Now, MLO and One Note still have their place, as repositories of lists and web cuttings, but the true heart of my AF system is pen and paper.
May 2, 2009 at 8:51 |
JD
JD
Definitvly Software & paper are indeed difficult to conciliate.
@JD the same happened o me with exactly the same consequences.
What i do not understand is that each time i tried to put item in a software it worked for a time. Then like you every thing was agonizing little by little. I had the horrible feeling you mentioned to have wasted my time and may be of my caracter i felt furious about me thinking that i rather better used my time doing business then AF.
Now what i wand and research with all my will is a personnal system wich could centralise my projects but be effcient on my task so for each task i could know where i am about the project and where i want goint to.
I need it on paper or writen because i dont want to stay stucked in front of my computer.
AF has by many way since 2 month changed my life giving me real perspectives about things and the best things it brought me is use my intuition and creativity.
AF has the inconvenient for me to wonder in front of some tasks where i am about the project and it is very difficult for me to make a compilation of my task left just to focus on a single project and determinate my next action.
AF just manage efficiently the flow, but it does it well.
I wait for the new rules of MF just to see if i could find a solution to these difficulties.
For the moment as I told you before the best i found was to centralised every thing in taskpaper files by area. But it's quiet unesay to do every day.
@JD the same happened o me with exactly the same consequences.
What i do not understand is that each time i tried to put item in a software it worked for a time. Then like you every thing was agonizing little by little. I had the horrible feeling you mentioned to have wasted my time and may be of my caracter i felt furious about me thinking that i rather better used my time doing business then AF.
Now what i wand and research with all my will is a personnal system wich could centralise my projects but be effcient on my task so for each task i could know where i am about the project and where i want goint to.
I need it on paper or writen because i dont want to stay stucked in front of my computer.
AF has by many way since 2 month changed my life giving me real perspectives about things and the best things it brought me is use my intuition and creativity.
AF has the inconvenient for me to wonder in front of some tasks where i am about the project and it is very difficult for me to make a compilation of my task left just to focus on a single project and determinate my next action.
AF just manage efficiently the flow, but it does it well.
I wait for the new rules of MF just to see if i could find a solution to these difficulties.
For the moment as I told you before the best i found was to centralised every thing in taskpaper files by area. But it's quiet unesay to do every day.
May 2, 2009 at 18:23 |
Jupiter
Jupiter
Hi JD
I love the way you describe your "realisation" so graphically, It is really quite distressing as a techie junkie to realise the real value of paper! I guess it really illustrates the intuitive side of AF - our intuition obviously knew this all along, or we would have genuinely been working in a paperless office!
I love the way you describe your "realisation" so graphically, It is really quite distressing as a techie junkie to realise the real value of paper! I guess it really illustrates the intuitive side of AF - our intuition obviously knew this all along, or we would have genuinely been working in a paperless office!
May 2, 2009 at 20:17 |
Christine B
Christine B
@jd as a fellow tech junkie I can really understand where you are coming - I still have my psion series 5mx in my drawer at work as I just can't stand to throw it away.
I think one reason AF is so good with paper is you don't need tags etc and can still keep project notes and details electronically. I also think there is a real pleasure in re-adding task because it means you have done some work on them. This is definitely more rewarding than checking a box in my iphone. I have though developed mild stationery addiction and was at a loss at my excitement at finding a levenger style shirt pocket briefcase copy in llandudno staples for about £5- and circa/rollabind/atoma type pads in whsmiths for £2.50
I think one reason AF is so good with paper is you don't need tags etc and can still keep project notes and details electronically. I also think there is a real pleasure in re-adding task because it means you have done some work on them. This is definitely more rewarding than checking a box in my iphone. I have though developed mild stationery addiction and was at a loss at my excitement at finding a levenger style shirt pocket briefcase copy in llandudno staples for about £5- and circa/rollabind/atoma type pads in whsmiths for £2.50
May 2, 2009 at 21:03 |
Mark j
Mark j
Computer distraction is a number one productivity killer for me, and I know I'm not alone. Paper and pen is the cure. Personally I've wasted countless hours fiddling with all the programs out there and I find they invite fiddling, and hence make productivity an elusive dream. That's partly the sort of mind I have. I have to shut off internet access if I want to get serious work done, and definitely never go on line in the morning first thing. There's a little program for the Mac called "freedom" that will jam your internet connection for you. There are other options too that block specific urls. It's also possible to set up your router to block internet access during certain times. You can make that old password something you don't know. Give it to a friend or email it to yourself, since you won't be on email, you'll have to wait to get it. That will fix the problem. Pen and paper works the best in my experience. I've dumped PDA's, smartphones, and all of that. So, unless you're really not having a problem wasting time, your in front of your machine 24/7 and you have found the "perfect" app, then I suggest not wasting time on this. Get to work!
May 2, 2009 at 21:26 |
Steven
Steven
Sadly i agree Steven. I spend a lot of time in front of my computer. The result is bad.
I find them usefull for creating documents, Emails (red 3 times a day), sending and receiving documents reading this forum (it's so amazing to see how we deal with AF and projects. and finding information when i need it.
My next challenge will be to stop working on this machine. For my real business i do it on the phone.
I think one day i gonna be nut and shall put all my projects and task on paper and i guess his day is coming faster than i thought. For example i've be waiting for the iphone for about 12 month cause bouig telecom did do it. Now they sell it and i can have it from peanuts. and you know what ? I am not hurry to buy it. I just realised than the reason i bought it ie using omnifocus is of no help for me, just because autofocus is much better than watever i tried.
Sociéty want us to buy things, but do we need to buy it ? Gonna they help us ou gonna they slave us ? Most of technologies for me creates new needs wich make us slave of them. Is it worth to ?
I find them usefull for creating documents, Emails (red 3 times a day), sending and receiving documents reading this forum (it's so amazing to see how we deal with AF and projects. and finding information when i need it.
My next challenge will be to stop working on this machine. For my real business i do it on the phone.
I think one day i gonna be nut and shall put all my projects and task on paper and i guess his day is coming faster than i thought. For example i've be waiting for the iphone for about 12 month cause bouig telecom did do it. Now they sell it and i can have it from peanuts. and you know what ? I am not hurry to buy it. I just realised than the reason i bought it ie using omnifocus is of no help for me, just because autofocus is much better than watever i tried.
Sociéty want us to buy things, but do we need to buy it ? Gonna they help us ou gonna they slave us ? Most of technologies for me creates new needs wich make us slave of them. Is it worth to ?
May 2, 2009 at 21:49 |
Jupiter
Jupiter
Evernote
The Hit List
TaskPaper
Daylite
And most recently, autofocus.cc
Each time, I stopped using the system due to the amount of time it took to input, refresh, etc., the information.
So I tried paper. A small moleskin'ish lined journal. And a rush of "AH HA" hit me. I've heard this solution mentioned on GTD boards, B. Sher's BB, etc., but I resisted. I'm now sold.