Discussion Forum > And yet there are these other damn people...
Avrum,
Don't you think it's also a question of what kind of personality you have? After all, there seems to be quite a difference between someone who is highly self-disciplined and so structured and clear in his thinking that he does not need much external organization and a spontaneous, creative type of guy jumping around at whim, excited about this, that, and the other and hardly capable of finishing anything he started. Don't you agree?
Don't you think it's also a question of what kind of personality you have? After all, there seems to be quite a difference between someone who is highly self-disciplined and so structured and clear in his thinking that he does not need much external organization and a spontaneous, creative type of guy jumping around at whim, excited about this, that, and the other and hardly capable of finishing anything he started. Don't you agree?
April 30, 2009 at 20:03 |
Joshus
Joshus
Hi Avrum,
I hear what you're saying, and I would say that 95% of my interest in time management has been how to get myself to not procrastinate on things that are important to me. The other 5% has been to ensure that nothing important falls through the cracks. When I was younger and my work was less complex, I could rely 100% on my memory. :-)
Some people don't procrastinate so they don't get it. I don't procrastinate at work either. But I'm an expert on it at home.
Maybe part of the reason for the "cult of productivity" is that we're disconnected from the meaning in our jobs - or we don't find meaning in them at all. So we need something to control our attention and make us enthusiastic because we don't have that passion for our work?
I grew up on a cattle ranch where time management is governed strictly by the seasons. My father has never owned or worn a watch. How long do you work? Until it gets dark out. If you procrastinate, you quite simply go broke. So there's a certain process of natural selection there.
I hope one day to get back to a point of not needing any kind of time management system to help me live the life I want to live. Until then, I'll keep playing tricks on myself to get myself to do what I'm not naturally inclined to do.
I hear what you're saying, and I would say that 95% of my interest in time management has been how to get myself to not procrastinate on things that are important to me. The other 5% has been to ensure that nothing important falls through the cracks. When I was younger and my work was less complex, I could rely 100% on my memory. :-)
Some people don't procrastinate so they don't get it. I don't procrastinate at work either. But I'm an expert on it at home.
Maybe part of the reason for the "cult of productivity" is that we're disconnected from the meaning in our jobs - or we don't find meaning in them at all. So we need something to control our attention and make us enthusiastic because we don't have that passion for our work?
I grew up on a cattle ranch where time management is governed strictly by the seasons. My father has never owned or worn a watch. How long do you work? Until it gets dark out. If you procrastinate, you quite simply go broke. So there's a certain process of natural selection there.
I hope one day to get back to a point of not needing any kind of time management system to help me live the life I want to live. Until then, I'll keep playing tricks on myself to get myself to do what I'm not naturally inclined to do.
April 30, 2009 at 20:08 |
Jacqueline
Jacqueline
I am envious of these types of people. For me it is simply that I would forget all I need to do. As I mentioned in my little ebook, productivity follows the 80/20 rule. So for me if I follow a simple rule which is to write everything I need to do in one place like a notebook, I get 80% of the benefit of the most complex system like a GTD.
April 30, 2009 at 20:11 |
Gerry
Gerry
@Joshua - "and a spontaneous, creative type of guy jumping around at whim, excited about this, that, and the other and hardly capable of finishing anything he started. Don't you agree?"
I wish I did. As a musician and artist, I'm the only one who gets excited about this stuff.
@Jacqueline - from the the first word to the last, a lovely, profound reply.
@Gerry - "I am envious of these types of people."
Ditto. Though I'm not envious of their disinterest in "systems", but rather, their ability to do the work that stirs their heart... and do it without omnifocus ;)
I wish I did. As a musician and artist, I'm the only one who gets excited about this stuff.
@Jacqueline - from the the first word to the last, a lovely, profound reply.
@Gerry - "I am envious of these types of people."
Ditto. Though I'm not envious of their disinterest in "systems", but rather, their ability to do the work that stirs their heart... and do it without omnifocus ;)
April 30, 2009 at 20:35 |
Avrum
Avrum
Congratulations to your wife!
I consider playing with systems as a hobby of sorts. You could say I collect new and better ways of doing things.
I have strong opinions about how valuable my hobby is, but that's not unusual. It's common for enthusiasts to be, well, enthusiastic. In my opinion, I get a great deal of benefit from my organizational efforts. My fiancee would disagree, but you couldn't pay me to do some of the stuff she considers fun, so I suppose all balances out.
I consider playing with systems as a hobby of sorts. You could say I collect new and better ways of doing things.
I have strong opinions about how valuable my hobby is, but that's not unusual. It's common for enthusiasts to be, well, enthusiastic. In my opinion, I get a great deal of benefit from my organizational efforts. My fiancee would disagree, but you couldn't pay me to do some of the stuff she considers fun, so I suppose all balances out.
April 30, 2009 at 21:47 |
Dan P.
Dan P.
Avrum:
I'm sure personality does come into it, as Joshus suggests. But I think it is also a question of what type of work you are doing, particularly how much choice you have about what you could be doing at any one time.
For instance a newbie psychiatrist basically doesn't really have much choice about what they are doing at any particular time of day. They go from one client to another, and from one meeting to another. That doesn't need time management. I'm sure your wife's life is more complicated than that - but I hope you get my meaning.
Herding cattle - as Jacqueline points out your life is regulated by the seasons. You really don't have much choice about what you do. Again you don't need time management - except for filling in all the Government forms and (in Europe) claiming all the EU subsidies.
When I was in the Army, I needed time management when I was office-based. But when I was out in the field it was just a matter of doing what was necessary at the time. Time management was pretty well irrelevant.
I'm sure personality does come into it, as Joshus suggests. But I think it is also a question of what type of work you are doing, particularly how much choice you have about what you could be doing at any one time.
For instance a newbie psychiatrist basically doesn't really have much choice about what they are doing at any particular time of day. They go from one client to another, and from one meeting to another. That doesn't need time management. I'm sure your wife's life is more complicated than that - but I hope you get my meaning.
Herding cattle - as Jacqueline points out your life is regulated by the seasons. You really don't have much choice about what you do. Again you don't need time management - except for filling in all the Government forms and (in Europe) claiming all the EU subsidies.
When I was in the Army, I needed time management when I was office-based. But when I was out in the field it was just a matter of doing what was necessary at the time. Time management was pretty well irrelevant.
April 30, 2009 at 23:05 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
Thanks for responding Mark. As it stands, I'm using AF and enjoying it.
May 1, 2009 at 2:02 |
Avrum
Avrum
It's definitely a combination of these factors imo. I look at my dh who is very successful and manages his business using a few notes on a notepad and a big desk calendar. Granted, he has to call me to look up numbers in his giant collection of 3-ring binders (and don't even get me started on all the tech calls I get- lol), but it's amazing how little time he spends on productivity as a process.
On the other hand, his work is pretty straight-forward: call on a limited pool of customers and handle any order issues that come up. My "work" of teaching, writing, speaking, and leading ministries isn't as straight-forward. I require lots of creative time and lots of brainstorming. Even my hobbies aren't as straight-forward as his. He plays tennis. He lines up the time, plays, and it's over. I scrapbook. So I have dozens of projects I'd like to do with more pictures rolling in all the time. It's never over!
The thing is, we're both very productive and happy people. I use a more complex approach for a more complex life. The bottom line for me is I really wouldn't want a life that could be managed in a half-dozen ruled lines of notebook paper a day like my husband's is. I like to sample a little of everything at the buffet.
On the other hand, his work is pretty straight-forward: call on a limited pool of customers and handle any order issues that come up. My "work" of teaching, writing, speaking, and leading ministries isn't as straight-forward. I require lots of creative time and lots of brainstorming. Even my hobbies aren't as straight-forward as his. He plays tennis. He lines up the time, plays, and it's over. I scrapbook. So I have dozens of projects I'd like to do with more pictures rolling in all the time. It's never over!
The thing is, we're both very productive and happy people. I use a more complex approach for a more complex life. The bottom line for me is I really wouldn't want a life that could be managed in a half-dozen ruled lines of notebook paper a day like my husband's is. I like to sample a little of everything at the buffet.
May 1, 2009 at 5:10 |
Mel
Mel
Hi Mel
I really relate to your comment "I use a more complex approach for a more complex life. The bottom line for me is I really wouldn't want a life that could be managed in a half-dozen ruled lines of notebook paper a day like my husband's is. I like to sample a little of everything at the buffet. "
I've found myself becoming concerned as I start to get more done, as to whether I will begin to struggle once I get too few pages and active items! Of course that could start a discussion on "how many" equals "too few" .... :-)
I really relate to your comment "I use a more complex approach for a more complex life. The bottom line for me is I really wouldn't want a life that could be managed in a half-dozen ruled lines of notebook paper a day like my husband's is. I like to sample a little of everything at the buffet. "
I've found myself becoming concerned as I start to get more done, as to whether I will begin to struggle once I get too few pages and active items! Of course that could start a discussion on "how many" equals "too few" .... :-)
May 2, 2009 at 17:37 |
Christine B
Christine B
Christine, isn't that the point (when the backlog is cleared) when you would just add in more of those things you've always wanted to do? Living and working more on the present and future than on the past? Even though it sounds wonderful, I think it could be a confusing time because at least you know your backlog and what you have to do with it. But I'm sure you'll be able to mindmap your way into it. :-)
May 4, 2009 at 13:02 |
Jacqueline
Jacqueline
Jacqueline - LOL - I'm sure you're right - it really is though that I have no idea how I'll feel when I get on top of things 'cos it is so long since I was there! I guess I can equate it to feeling on top of things in my business, when I had an extremely efficient PA who used to manage the areas I hated perfectly. Even though I still had areas of backlog I also had areas of control so that at least gives me some reference point. And of course, as you say, there will be my trusty Mindmap ...... :-)
May 4, 2009 at 15:36 |
Christine B
Christine B
For example, my wife. A newbie psychiatrist - just passed all her residency exams - who finds the whole "productivity" thing a tad strange and OCD-like (hey, she's a shrink).
So I wonder... how many of us do gtdcoveyautofocus as a "make work project" to appear "as if" we're actualizing our the best in ourselves. I also wonder if the energy that once went into religious ritual, now goes into productivity rituals. I mentioned this to David Seah and he agreed.