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Discussion Forum > Outsourcing 

Yesterday, I was reading Steve Pavlina's blog "Personal Development for Sheep People" aka "Personal Development for H***y People" (sorry, but I find his ventures into polyamory and LOA or "intention manifestation" kind of amusing and bizarre.) Anyway, Leo B. from Zen Habits interviewed him and one of the topics was outsourcing of personal tasks like gardening, cleaning etc.

Years ago, I read Charles Givens' book, Super Self, and he was a big advocate of outsourcing at any time that you found that your $ earned per hour was higher than what you would pay to get somebody else to do that task.

But what if you actually enjoy doing that task? For example, I could pay someone to walk my dog, but I like doing it. Same thing with shopping, and house cleaners in my area are pretty expensive, still much less than what I earn consulting, but probably close (after tax) to what I earn at my day job. I seem to only be able to outsource (in my personal life, I have no problems delegating at work) when it's people I know (relatives and friends - I think because I don't mind if they financially benefit from me) or on jobs that I feel are too complex for me to do (eg. electrical and plumbing work.)

This is something that's become more pertinent to me lately. What do people generally outsource and how do you practically go about it?

May 2, 2009 at 19:10 | Unregistered CommenterJacqueline
I don't outsource much, as I really have more time than money these days. I can generate income almost at will, but I would rather spend my time researching and writing ... neither of which pay anything at all ;-)

However, I do out source things that I can't physically do ... and those things are starting to increase as the years pass. I call in my favorite landscaper to do Spring clean up, as it takes a crew of 4 to pull weeds, edge, and spread mulch ... that would about kill me ;-) I do mow my own lawn, however. I need the exercise, I can do it, and while I would not mow lawns for $30 bucks to make money, I would not pay anyone $30 to mow mine!

I do my own home maintenance, but there are some things I don't like that much ... plumbing and tiling, for example. I'd wind up with a crappy looking job if I did my own tiling ... and my tile guy produces magic!

There are some things I've yet to decide. I have to do some stuff in the attic this year and I'm not sure if I'll be able to stand the high heat and cramped space I'd have to work in. I'll have to cross that bridge.

House cleaning is so easy that I just can't see it. It takes nothing to run a vacuum and swipe the surfaces with a Swifter, so why would I pay someone to do that? I can't delegate filing as it would take longer to explain what I want than to just do it myself.

So I guess I'm saying that it all depends on trade-offs. If I were doing the 9-5 gig these days (HA, when was it EVER 9-5?) I'd no doubt pay to have the lawn done, but I'd still probably run my own vacuum.

May 3, 2009 at 7:47 | Unregistered CommenterMike
Thanks Mike,

I think I have to look at it from a couple of different perspectives as well - how well can I do it as opposed to a professional? (I was thinking of laying my own tile - you've helped me rethink that!) I paint walls better than any professional job I've seen though! :-) There's also the cost of the tools to do the job to factor in. And the fact that we now have a home renovation credit which I'd like to maximize to reduce tax. I've just had some bad luck with contractors lately, and it's frustrating.

Then there's the peace of mind factor, knowing that I don't have to worry because if I outsource to a contractor, I'll get everything done by my deadline and can focus on where I'm a professional - finance consulting. I can't begrudge these other guys making a buck! There's an opportunity cost to making these decisions. I'll restrict myself to doing what I enjoy (wrecking / deconstructing things) and leave the putting it back together in a pretty package to someone more competent than I.

May 3, 2009 at 16:47 | Unregistered CommenterJacqueline
I'm always looking to outsource things, it doesn't necessarily have to be be in the form of human work. I think most households outsource washing the dishes by buying a dish washer for example. What I find important though is that activities like 'letting out the dog' and for me 'washing the dishes' are very rewarding activities. I actually look forward to washing the dishes for a number of reasons, but mainly because it recharges me and I end up being refreshed and motivated to get back to work after doing it.

that's why I think in terms of outsourcing, it's not just what you can afford to outsource, or what you are good or bad it at, it's the value of the activity to you. I think activities like washing the dishes/ walking the dog shouldn't be regarded as less valuable time, in fact I've found the most trivial activities can pay off more than most 'work' activities can.

I think often times people with too high of a workload fall into a fallacy by looking to outsource mundane activities like cooking, cleaning and other shortcuts, only to have the time be used for more taxing tasks. People may overvalue work activities out of a sense of obligation and other beliefs. That is when you get situations where people say they don't have time for exercise, to prepare good meals or to enjoy social occasions. It's about as logical as driving a car and saying you don't have time to refuel, maintain it and bring it to the garage.

Ultimately its about how good you feel about the things you are doing, not what you are doing. I outsource or alter my (motivation) strategies on the activities that I don't feel good while doing them.
May 3, 2009 at 17:13 | Unregistered CommenterPeter K
I think an individual's goals play a part though too Peter. If your goal is to climb the career ladder, unfortunately, you do have to make the most effective use of your time whether you enjoy things or not by delegating, outsourcing, etc.
May 3, 2009 at 18:30 | Unregistered CommenterJacqueline
I've been outsourcing pretty much everything in life. In fact, I haven't not written an internet forum post in years (my forum posts are written by a great Cambodian guy named Nim Thuc).

I recently had a pool put in and I have been paying someone to do the swimming for me.

Can't think of much that I have not outsourced at this point, except for the outsourcing. I hope to have that taken of soon enough. Then I am going into a chemically induced coma so that I can outsource most of my bodily functions as well.

Four hour work week? I give you the zero hour work week.



May 4, 2009 at 6:12 | Unregistered CommenterNorman U.
Norman,

I do love the levity you introduce. You had me scratching my head over Nim Thuc ... "How the hell can he outsource a forum post? Does he dictate? Does that even count as outsourcing?" The swimming pool finally gave it away, however! ROTFLMAO ;-)
May 4, 2009 at 11:24 | Unregistered CommenterMike
Good one Norman! :-)

That's why Tim Ferriss bugs me - he talks about a 4 hour work week, but in reality works like a dog on publicity etc. His thought is if he likes doing it, it's not work I guess?

May 4, 2009 at 12:34 | Unregistered CommenterJacqueline
I agree largely with Peter K, I use cleaning/chores for thinking time, either something I've just worked on and/or just 'freewheeling'.

This makes it usually more productive than reading productivity websites and blogs - except Mark's of course ;)
May 4, 2009 at 14:12 | Unregistered Commentersmileypete
I have lots of things I want to outsource but can't find them all yet! I always loved having a cleaner - but did fall into the trap of cleaning and/or tidying up before they came!
May 4, 2009 at 15:42 | Unregistered CommenterChristine B
Christine:

I thought that was the only reason for having a cleaner!
May 4, 2009 at 18:07 | Registered CommenterMark Forster
Well it did keep me more on top of stuff - but not without resistance!! :-)
May 4, 2009 at 18:30 | Unregistered CommenterChristine B
And here my trick was to invite friends over once every couple of weeks. It's amazing how fast I can clean my house when someone is coming over in an hour.
May 4, 2009 at 21:07 | Unregistered CommenterJacqueline
Ah but that doesn't work when you live in CHAOS - mind you neither does having a cleaner - oh dear .....
May 4, 2009 at 21:13 | Unregistered CommenterChristine B
You just have to restrict them to certain rooms. No! Don't go in that bathroom kind of stuff. :-)
May 4, 2009 at 22:12 | Unregistered CommenterJacqueline
I'm going to have to work on this one ..... :-)
May 4, 2009 at 22:35 | Unregistered CommenterChristine B
Christine:

There's a section in "Get Everything Done" about employing yourself.

If you decided to seek employment as a cleaner, would you be capable of doing the job? Of course you would!

So what's the difference between cleaning your own house and cleaning someone else's? Well, let's look at the cleaner. She (or he) comes into the house at a specific time, has no interest in or responsibility for anything in the house except cleaning, leaves once the job is finished, and gets paid for it.

All you have to do is to re-create the cleaner's situation. Leave your house, change into your cleaning kit, come back to it at the specified time, and pretend it's someone else's house - that means you ignore the computer, you ignore the phone calls, you don't start sorting your childhood photos - you just clean. When you've finished leave the house, and change back into your normal clothes.

And finally pay yourself the going rate and think of something nice to spend it on!
May 5, 2009 at 9:26 | Registered CommenterMark Forster
Thanks for that Mark - definitely worth a try if Autofocus lets me down - I'll just add "find location to change into cleaner's kit" onto my list :-)
May 5, 2009 at 11:09 | Unregistered CommenterChristine B
Back when I was self employed, I used to do this to do my own accounting work every month end. I wouldn't pay myself until the accounting was done and my expense report was filed.
May 5, 2009 at 13:15 | Unregistered CommenterJacqueline
Norman,

I loved the post. Then, by coincidence I happened to be re-reading "The Wisdom of Insecurity" by Alan Watts, written in 1954 where he writes

"in the not too distant future, the human brain may be an obsolete mechanism... man will become an unsaleable commodity in an era when the mechanical operation of reasoning can be done more effectively by machines"

I think that this was very prophetic. My recent experiences of dealing with any large organization seem to suggest that in most cases thinking itself has been outsourced long ago.
May 8, 2009 at 22:29 | Unregistered CommenterJaroslav
Jacqueline,

I would say here in the UK, the word "outsourcing" has pretty negative connotations. But surely the underlying idea is basic to all human economic activity, and amounts to an exchange of goods or services, either through payment, or through direct barter before the concept of money was introduced. As such, all of us "outsource" a huge number of needs every day.

As an example, some of us may grow some of our food in kitchen gardens, but I doubt that anyone on this forum actually grows the wheat for their bread? On the other hand, I love making bread, and want to know what actually goes into the loaf I eat. Thus until I fell ill, pretty much all the bread we ate in the family was home made, despite the fact that this was neither cheaper nor faster than buying it at the bakery. Similarly, virtually all our food is cooked from raw ingredients, whilst other people buy ready cooked "TV dinners" at the supermarket. We hate ironing, so pay to have it done, other people do it themselves.

I think that every individual will have a different balance of choices depending on cost, time, enjoyment, quality of results and availability of someone willing to provide the service/goods at a level of quality/price/time that is acceptable to you. It seems difficult to try and generalize.
May 8, 2009 at 22:49 | Unregistered CommenterJaroslav