Discussion Forum > Test AF & GTD Priject Contexts
Hi Jupiter,
This is intriguing, particularly since I came here with a GTD background. I have a colleague who is actively working GTD, but likes aspects of AF. His setup is entirely digital -- in Outlook 2007. Here is what he does:
(1) He uses standard contexts, much like what you have described.
(2) He sorts tasks by the date created, with new tasks always appearing at the bottom of his context lists.
(3) If he has a major action or task that he does not complete in one sitting, he re-enters the task so that it now appears at the bottom of the list. He then checks off the original task. This provides a sense of completion.
(4) While still using the GTD aspects of choosing a task to do -- context, time available, energy, and priority...he overlays AF principles and goes through the lists and chooses what stands out.
(5) He also uses the Nick's Adaptive Strategy -- he starts with the oldest tasks on the lists....works on those...then goes to the newest tasks and then works backwards through the lists.
I thought this was an innovative combination of GTD and AF. I just wanted to share this.
-David
This is intriguing, particularly since I came here with a GTD background. I have a colleague who is actively working GTD, but likes aspects of AF. His setup is entirely digital -- in Outlook 2007. Here is what he does:
(1) He uses standard contexts, much like what you have described.
(2) He sorts tasks by the date created, with new tasks always appearing at the bottom of his context lists.
(3) If he has a major action or task that he does not complete in one sitting, he re-enters the task so that it now appears at the bottom of the list. He then checks off the original task. This provides a sense of completion.
(4) While still using the GTD aspects of choosing a task to do -- context, time available, energy, and priority...he overlays AF principles and goes through the lists and chooses what stands out.
(5) He also uses the Nick's Adaptive Strategy -- he starts with the oldest tasks on the lists....works on those...then goes to the newest tasks and then works backwards through the lists.
I thought this was an innovative combination of GTD and AF. I just wanted to share this.
-David
May 5, 2009 at 19:17 |
David Drake
David Drake
Hi David effectively very interesting. And working in a digital way.
My adaptation works on paper CATEGORIES and AREA
PROJECTS (Area Business, area regular, area personnal)
CONTEXT
PROCESS
CONTACTS
METHOD
What is interesting is that all my sheet are stapled together.
It is very easy to use.
The double reading and repporting of undone items with de date is very powerfull.
In fact it is like mini focus list except that they are linked to the project.
My adaptation works on paper CATEGORIES and AREA
PROJECTS (Area Business, area regular, area personnal)
CONTEXT
PROCESS
CONTACTS
METHOD
What is interesting is that all my sheet are stapled together.
It is very easy to use.
The double reading and repporting of undone items with de date is very powerfull.
In fact it is like mini focus list except that they are linked to the project.
May 5, 2009 at 19:47 |
Jupiter
Jupiter
VERY interesting jupiter, can you tell us more how you physically arranged your paper based system? Do you keep a binder with tabs separating project lists?
Thanks
Derek
Thanks
Derek
May 5, 2009 at 20:15 |
Derek D
Derek D
Derek,
It's indeed simple. I use common sheet of papers from an OXFORD lined detachable notepad The bloc of sheet are in plastic folderswith transparency and a logo on it example @CONTEXT or @PROJECTS
All my sheet are stapled (agraphee) all together like i explained in my previous post.
I dont use binder with tabs and separated. It's to complicated and difficult to manipulate fastly.
Each bloc of sheet begin (except context) by a simple project list.
example Business begin at the first page by all the list of the business i am on. and a objective of what i need to do.
1. Building XXX // Fin a bank to finance the building
2. Building Y // Obtain from the sollicitor a new term sheet
3. Buiding ZZ // Contact the possible buyers and send them a teaser
Then there is one sheet per building with the number on the right down bottom. So i can read it esely and find it quickly.
the projects look like this: example
1. Building XXX // Find a bank to finance the building of paris champs elysee.
Summery : contact Frenchh and british bank
such as
X
Y
Z
A
B
NAL (ie next action lit)
- Make a teaser to explain what i need (@Mac X - this is my next action)
- send a tesaer by email
- call them 3 day after
- and so on....
When i work i have on my desk on the left my bloc of CONTEXT
on the right My bloc of Business project open on project/buniness/ number 1
it take me 2 secont to be operationnal what ever happen.
It's fantastic when i have a call. Imagine i work n a hard deal. let's say number 2 Building Y // Obtain from the sollicitor a new term sheet
all the points of my negociation are listed on my project list. I just open n°2 i list all the points quickly read it lessoning to the sollicitor and then take notes on the projects itself
The i use highliners to highlines things example Things to wait = green, negociation is pink
orange is the headlines of the negociation yellow is what i have to do. Then if i do something i highline in yellow and it i wait for it it become green and goes directly to my context list @ Wait and i put a @wait x (the cross mean i repported it on my context list and it is the next action.
Of course every thinh is scanned one ce a week. I have a fantastic scan printer see it on my blog. http://gtdway.blogspot.com/2009/03/mes-jouets-geeks-imprimante.html
Hope it's clear and helpfull.
It's indeed simple. I use common sheet of papers from an OXFORD lined detachable notepad The bloc of sheet are in plastic folderswith transparency and a logo on it example @CONTEXT or @PROJECTS
All my sheet are stapled (agraphee) all together like i explained in my previous post.
I dont use binder with tabs and separated. It's to complicated and difficult to manipulate fastly.
Each bloc of sheet begin (except context) by a simple project list.
example Business begin at the first page by all the list of the business i am on. and a objective of what i need to do.
1. Building XXX // Fin a bank to finance the building
2. Building Y // Obtain from the sollicitor a new term sheet
3. Buiding ZZ // Contact the possible buyers and send them a teaser
Then there is one sheet per building with the number on the right down bottom. So i can read it esely and find it quickly.
the projects look like this: example
1. Building XXX // Find a bank to finance the building of paris champs elysee.
Summery : contact Frenchh and british bank
such as
X
Y
Z
A
B
NAL (ie next action lit)
- Make a teaser to explain what i need (@Mac X - this is my next action)
- send a tesaer by email
- call them 3 day after
- and so on....
When i work i have on my desk on the left my bloc of CONTEXT
on the right My bloc of Business project open on project/buniness/ number 1
it take me 2 secont to be operationnal what ever happen.
It's fantastic when i have a call. Imagine i work n a hard deal. let's say number 2 Building Y // Obtain from the sollicitor a new term sheet
all the points of my negociation are listed on my project list. I just open n°2 i list all the points quickly read it lessoning to the sollicitor and then take notes on the projects itself
The i use highliners to highlines things example Things to wait = green, negociation is pink
orange is the headlines of the negociation yellow is what i have to do. Then if i do something i highline in yellow and it i wait for it it become green and goes directly to my context list @ Wait and i put a @wait x (the cross mean i repported it on my context list and it is the next action.
Of course every thinh is scanned one ce a week. I have a fantastic scan printer see it on my blog. http://gtdway.blogspot.com/2009/03/mes-jouets-geeks-imprimante.html
Hope it's clear and helpfull.
May 5, 2009 at 21:40 |
Jupiter
Jupiter
Thats quite a system you have there Jupiter, sounds like GTD paper based system which allows time management at project level using intuition, then AF (intuition again) to select appropriate next action at project level - but with project planning built in too - powerful use of left and right sides of the brain.
How much time did you spend setting the system up, and more importantly - how much effort do you find it needs to keep it up and running?
Would love to read a step by step guide to setting up and maintaining your system, but I am unsure how much overhead this system would require to be kept up to date?
Many thanks,
Derek.
How much time did you spend setting the system up, and more importantly - how much effort do you find it needs to keep it up and running?
Would love to read a step by step guide to setting up and maintaining your system, but I am unsure how much overhead this system would require to be kept up to date?
Many thanks,
Derek.
May 5, 2009 at 22:01 |
Derek D
Derek D
Thanks Derek. Do you read French ? If you does i surely write it on my blog.
I quick answer to yours questions, hope some others will participate to :
"Thats quite a system you have there Jupiter, sounds like GTD paper based system which allows time management at project level using intuition, then AF (intuition again) to select appropriate next action at project level - but with project planning built in too - powerful use of left and right sides of the brain"
> Yes. The result and efficiency is incredible. The beginning was that i was upset about the rigidity of Gtd and the Aspect a bit "messy" of AF (and no link with the project). Also when i came back from my last holliday a week ago i was desesparate and happy too for I had 30 new projects on my desk so i thought :" AF won't manage all that stuff but i need to keep the best of it ie INTUITION"
Anyway, on the two methods I found some incredible perspectives so i instinctivly and consciously i tried to build a misxt of them. I indeed thanks lot of you because the answers you gave to my questions helped me so much and your post too.
So i dreamt on it.and In the morning I had my solution. wich sudently stand at me.
"How much time did you spend setting the system up",
About 2 years with GTD but only 2 month with traditional AF and only 2 ays with my methodology.
and more importantly how much effort do you find it needs to keep it up and running?
> The incredible is that it takes.. No time.... For the system is updating by itself. Littl by little.
Example you work on context list so you write your stuff on the go...
Then suddently you thinks about tghings or alternative of the project so you write it quickly
When you finish thinking suddently you think What can i do now ? How yes call betty Can i do it now yes so do it NO betty is playing tennins so repport on @ context call
Project XX / 05/05/09 call Betty for talking about the contract (06/05/09) < mean i must do it tomorrow....
The weekly or daily review is very fast. All your project are already listed so you can focus on reading them eliminate unusefull info and think about what you may do. And so repport the next action on @ Context.
Then comes the time to do things everything is ready. Imagine Betty call you (after her tennis ;) ) about project x you take note directly on the project and then direcltly report the next action on @context if you can do it in less than 2 mn.
Anyway If some others are interested in the method i shall try to make a step by step guide on my blog when i shall finsih to test it. But it will be in French (easy). and i shall post a link about the article.
I quick answer to yours questions, hope some others will participate to :
"Thats quite a system you have there Jupiter, sounds like GTD paper based system which allows time management at project level using intuition, then AF (intuition again) to select appropriate next action at project level - but with project planning built in too - powerful use of left and right sides of the brain"
> Yes. The result and efficiency is incredible. The beginning was that i was upset about the rigidity of Gtd and the Aspect a bit "messy" of AF (and no link with the project). Also when i came back from my last holliday a week ago i was desesparate and happy too for I had 30 new projects on my desk so i thought :" AF won't manage all that stuff but i need to keep the best of it ie INTUITION"
Anyway, on the two methods I found some incredible perspectives so i instinctivly and consciously i tried to build a misxt of them. I indeed thanks lot of you because the answers you gave to my questions helped me so much and your post too.
So i dreamt on it.and In the morning I had my solution. wich sudently stand at me.
"How much time did you spend setting the system up",
About 2 years with GTD but only 2 month with traditional AF and only 2 ays with my methodology.
and more importantly how much effort do you find it needs to keep it up and running?
> The incredible is that it takes.. No time.... For the system is updating by itself. Littl by little.
Example you work on context list so you write your stuff on the go...
Then suddently you thinks about tghings or alternative of the project so you write it quickly
When you finish thinking suddently you think What can i do now ? How yes call betty Can i do it now yes so do it NO betty is playing tennins so repport on @ context call
Project XX / 05/05/09 call Betty for talking about the contract (06/05/09) < mean i must do it tomorrow....
The weekly or daily review is very fast. All your project are already listed so you can focus on reading them eliminate unusefull info and think about what you may do. And so repport the next action on @ Context.
Then comes the time to do things everything is ready. Imagine Betty call you (after her tennis ;) ) about project x you take note directly on the project and then direcltly report the next action on @context if you can do it in less than 2 mn.
Anyway If some others are interested in the method i shall try to make a step by step guide on my blog when i shall finsih to test it. But it will be in French (easy). and i shall post a link about the article.
May 5, 2009 at 22:42 |
Jupiter
Jupiter
read : Then comes the time to do things everything is ready. Imagine Betty call you (after her tennis ;) ) about project x you take note directly on the project and then direcltly report the next action on @context if you CAN'T do it in less than 2 mn.
May 5, 2009 at 22:50 |
Jupiter
Jupiter
To Jupiter: I like to read your posts because I feel that you and I are struggling to achieve a similar result. But as I read the description here, I wonder: isn't this just GTD?
May 7, 2009 at 1:43 |
ds
ds
Jupiter
I too think you are describing rather classical GTD.
For myself, the more confident I get with AF the more I believe that it is the missing piece that enables GTD to really work. After 4 months with AF, I find myself returning to GTD in the belief that Mark has shown me how to make it work at the pointy end. (And I can see that GTD can work for me with just one Context.)
Thanks Mark!
I too think you are describing rather classical GTD.
For myself, the more confident I get with AF the more I believe that it is the missing piece that enables GTD to really work. After 4 months with AF, I find myself returning to GTD in the belief that Mark has shown me how to make it work at the pointy end. (And I can see that GTD can work for me with just one Context.)
Thanks Mark!
May 7, 2009 at 3:44 |
Jim (Melbourne)
Jim (Melbourne)
@Jim & Ds
You absolutly right it's basic gtd on the formal aspects. But in practical the 2 reads and tasks report make it look like AF except that it's clearest for me and more powerfull and pratical
example I was with my wife yesterday. We plan to go to USA for next holidays. So I took my personnal bloc wich includes USA Hollidays. So we spoke about it and decided what we wanted (go to califorrnia, nationals parks, see NY...) the NAL (make new passport, then go to 3 travel agency we know are specialised in the USA) Back at the office i just report my Na wich was context @Mac go to the web and look what is necessary for a new passport.
So i let down the project and ook my context list reading ech context twice.
Then stan at me 2 urgent task i needed to do. A call to my accountant and another to a client. I did those. Urgent call were done. Then lookink @Mac the first reading stand at me a @ to a client (very urgent) i did it right away and the research i had to do for the new passport. It was not urgent but i needed to do it because it take quiet a long time. So i did it and noticed i needed to write a letter to a public departement to get a birth acte so i repported the task on my context @administrative (all my writting and sortings)
Anyway yes it's GTD, but i took the best of AF ie the 2 readings which makes work the left part and right part of my brain an after 3 day using the method i can tell you it's very very very powerfull. Is it's so easy for working on projects
Some statistiques : 180 task
Worked on yesterday 30
Finished yesterday 20
Reported and reformulated 10
Nature of done task 80% urgent or important
Non important 10%
Unknown 10%
You absolutly right it's basic gtd on the formal aspects. But in practical the 2 reads and tasks report make it look like AF except that it's clearest for me and more powerfull and pratical
example I was with my wife yesterday. We plan to go to USA for next holidays. So I took my personnal bloc wich includes USA Hollidays. So we spoke about it and decided what we wanted (go to califorrnia, nationals parks, see NY...) the NAL (make new passport, then go to 3 travel agency we know are specialised in the USA) Back at the office i just report my Na wich was context @Mac go to the web and look what is necessary for a new passport.
So i let down the project and ook my context list reading ech context twice.
Then stan at me 2 urgent task i needed to do. A call to my accountant and another to a client. I did those. Urgent call were done. Then lookink @Mac the first reading stand at me a @ to a client (very urgent) i did it right away and the research i had to do for the new passport. It was not urgent but i needed to do it because it take quiet a long time. So i did it and noticed i needed to write a letter to a public departement to get a birth acte so i repported the task on my context @administrative (all my writting and sortings)
Anyway yes it's GTD, but i took the best of AF ie the 2 readings which makes work the left part and right part of my brain an after 3 day using the method i can tell you it's very very very powerfull. Is it's so easy for working on projects
Some statistiques : 180 task
Worked on yesterday 30
Finished yesterday 20
Reported and reformulated 10
Nature of done task 80% urgent or important
Non important 10%
Unknown 10%
May 7, 2009 at 8:15 |
Jupiter
Jupiter
Forgt to relate an important aspect. When i was with my wife we were speacking about everything wich was on the flow together ie go to the bank, goto the electrician store, pay the bill of electicty nd so on. So we check thanks to the context all we were waiting for and all we had to do and it was fast and easy. Sudently she said why dont we call our friends for a diner on wednesday evening ? So i repported immedialtly the call on my context list @ call and i knew it will be done fast.
What i mean is that with AF in it's basic method i ought to read all my pages with the GTDAFmethod i came straight to the point.
What i mean is that with AF in it's basic method i ought to read all my pages with the GTDAFmethod i came straight to the point.
May 7, 2009 at 8:21 |
Jupiter
Jupiter
I see the value of being able to CHOOSE to view by context--which a computer implementation would allow (to sort and unsort).
But if your only available view is in context-specific pages, don't you lose part of the magical-weird side of AF--the crazy mix that allows you to let something Stand Out from vastly different, unrelated areas?
I'm not to trying to denigrate your method. I've been trying to figure out a decent way to have both worlds--the crazy mixed up list of AF, with the ability to pull out context-specific lists when I want them occasionally. (Obviously the answer is to keep the list electronically with some sort of tags or categorization, but I haven't been happy working off the computer...)
But if your only available view is in context-specific pages, don't you lose part of the magical-weird side of AF--the crazy mix that allows you to let something Stand Out from vastly different, unrelated areas?
I'm not to trying to denigrate your method. I've been trying to figure out a decent way to have both worlds--the crazy mixed up list of AF, with the ability to pull out context-specific lists when I want them occasionally. (Obviously the answer is to keep the list electronically with some sort of tags or categorization, but I haven't been happy working off the computer...)
May 7, 2009 at 12:50 |
ds
ds
I am experimenting with maintaining dual lists, as does Christine, in my book and on the computer. The only way it might possibly work is what I am trying right now.
- I got a copy of ListPro for the Desktop and Palm
- I copied my book into it. Only the open items on the active pages, but I kept the original page and line numbers.
- I tagged each items in various ways... my computer maintenance items... things I'm doing to get ready for a visit by my brother-in-law later this month... my agenda list items (things to talk over with my wife, for example), my reading list, etc.
- I synced that with my Palm
- I leave the ListPro application up on the Palm so when I switch it on the page I'm working on is right there. It takes literally one second.
- I have a quick to find record of my first active page, my current page, and the last active page so if I switch to a view filtered by one of my tags, I can get back to where I was, quickly.
- I can now filter by page and line number so I can see exactly what my book page looks like on both my palm and desktop computer.
- I can filter by types of tasks so I can see what chores I have to do to get the house in order for that visit, or things to talk about with my wife, etc.
- My book remains my primary control point. Everything is written there first. I'm going to be working on the house today so I'll filter on that and refer to the Palm. When I do something, I'll check it off there and duplicate the item on the last page if not complete. I'll write the item on the last page of my book (when I get back to the book again), but I probably won't spend the time looking for it to cross it off in the book. (Though I might. I will know the page and line number so it should be a snap.) But if it does not get crossed off, no problem, next time I see it I'll either work on it if it has not been done or cross it off if it has.
Christine does something like this in One Note. I needed something portable so I had to find a way to make it work on my smart phone or the Palm. She has found that keeping two "books" in sync is no problem. I suspect I'll find the same to be true. Time will tell.
This does, however, solve, in a different way, some of my issues I had with priority and urgency items, as well as tagging and grouping of like items. However, no matter what, I won't give up my pocket notebook and pen!
- I got a copy of ListPro for the Desktop and Palm
- I copied my book into it. Only the open items on the active pages, but I kept the original page and line numbers.
- I tagged each items in various ways... my computer maintenance items... things I'm doing to get ready for a visit by my brother-in-law later this month... my agenda list items (things to talk over with my wife, for example), my reading list, etc.
- I synced that with my Palm
- I leave the ListPro application up on the Palm so when I switch it on the page I'm working on is right there. It takes literally one second.
- I have a quick to find record of my first active page, my current page, and the last active page so if I switch to a view filtered by one of my tags, I can get back to where I was, quickly.
- I can now filter by page and line number so I can see exactly what my book page looks like on both my palm and desktop computer.
- I can filter by types of tasks so I can see what chores I have to do to get the house in order for that visit, or things to talk about with my wife, etc.
- My book remains my primary control point. Everything is written there first. I'm going to be working on the house today so I'll filter on that and refer to the Palm. When I do something, I'll check it off there and duplicate the item on the last page if not complete. I'll write the item on the last page of my book (when I get back to the book again), but I probably won't spend the time looking for it to cross it off in the book. (Though I might. I will know the page and line number so it should be a snap.) But if it does not get crossed off, no problem, next time I see it I'll either work on it if it has not been done or cross it off if it has.
Christine does something like this in One Note. I needed something portable so I had to find a way to make it work on my smart phone or the Palm. She has found that keeping two "books" in sync is no problem. I suspect I'll find the same to be true. Time will tell.
This does, however, solve, in a different way, some of my issues I had with priority and urgency items, as well as tagging and grouping of like items. However, no matter what, I won't give up my pocket notebook and pen!
May 7, 2009 at 13:44 |
Mike
Mike
I am toying with using my copy of the outlook task list synched to my ageing smartphone.
The slight problem is that the link loses the create date for each task. The only way I can think of would be to add a start date. I know it's just a mass drag and drop, but it's EXTRA.
Thinks...
I could do that when I finish a page and then I wouldn't need to bother with an EOP marker. Hmmm...
The slight problem is that the link loses the create date for each task. The only way I can think of would be to add a start date. I know it's just a mass drag and drop, but it's EXTRA.
Thinks...
I could do that when I finish a page and then I wouldn't need to bother with an EOP marker. Hmmm...
May 8, 2009 at 8:25 |
Will
Will
Just want to share with you an experience of a mix off OF and GTD
As you know i noticed i had many difficulties with AF and Project.
Task are added one after the other and when you have a lot a project you have to work simounanously on it can be a real mess wich led me to be un able to know what'a about what. One time i had 35 pages and so many repported tasks and duplicates items.
Also working on pages with item added one after the others in many contexts mixed up together made me some problem because when for example i was on the phone i had to read all my pages to look at the calls i had to give.
But i noticed than working on AF and using Mark's rules were indeed efficient, addictive too but really intresting.
So i tested a new way of doing things...
For project
First. I keept a project list in GTD manner (perfect to manage my projects)
Secont. I added all my projects on paper numbered one by one like my project list
For Contexts
I created my contexts
Mine are
@ People
@ Agenda
@ Waiting for
@ Someday may be
@ Call
@ Admnistrative
@ Work (every thing i need to work on)
@ Mac (everything i does on mac Macintosh)
@ Think
For incoming information. I created a IN sheet.
The AF / CONTEXT process
I Work in GTD Way. But I use the double read technique.
When everything is written on context or on project i read them at the AF manner.
I work on thing all the time i wish.
If it is not finished the task is reformulated and added on the context sheet at the end
like this example for call
Project X / Call Totor 01 00 00 14 44 / To obtain term sheet dont forget this and that...
When i called Totor i cross it and report on my @waiting list
Project X/ Waiting for the contract (Date) // Lokkk at this and that + Idem on my diary
The result after 2 days
- Perfect for managing project
- Clear for things
- No proscratrination
- Easy for daily and weekly review
- Easy for working on project in a GTD way.
- Wonderfull for creativity and the 2 pass are great for using your instinct
- Less tasks done but nothing but the necessary.
seems to be working ;))