Discussion Forum > I really need to dismiss... :-)
Wanted to add that I'm not using any "tweaks" at all, as far as I know. The basic system works fine for me. I've resisted dismissing things, and I think that's why some of these pages have held on so long, but otherwise I just follow the rules...
June 11, 2009 at 20:30 |
Seraphim
Seraphim
This is one problem of AF for me it's a question of strategy. If you put ALL your items in AF you will realize that the AF can become really huge. then it will be more and more difficult to focus on tasks and pages and the problem wil be increased by the number of project.
With the recent help of Men of kent i found 2 options :
1. put on AF nothing but what i want to work on (no future items, nothing i am not sure to work on) I dont unactive project task too. All that sytuff goes to OF. or you project management system
2. There is another alternative with i like too. It's AF condensed 2 see the post
basically its simple. Put everything on AF then extract each morning what you really want to work on. Simple. And you can carry the sheet every where during the day and let your AF at your office....
Now i am experimenting. I gonna see how it works on the flow.
With the recent help of Men of kent i found 2 options :
1. put on AF nothing but what i want to work on (no future items, nothing i am not sure to work on) I dont unactive project task too. All that sytuff goes to OF. or you project management system
2. There is another alternative with i like too. It's AF condensed 2 see the post
basically its simple. Put everything on AF then extract each morning what you really want to work on. Simple. And you can carry the sheet every where during the day and let your AF at your office....
Now i am experimenting. I gonna see how it works on the flow.
June 11, 2009 at 21:28 |
Jupiter
Jupiter
Seraphim,
I'm glad its not just me. I've been using AutoFocus since 4th January and I'm only my second pass. My first pass took me 108 days to complete and I'm currently on day 51 of my second pass with 15 pages till I get to the end.
The main reason it is taking me so long are: I included the tasks from my old to do list, I'm currently on maternity leave so don't always get a lot of time to spend on list and I want to do soooo many different things.
Like you I am looking forward to going through the list again and starting to dismiss some tasks and reaching the leaner, cleaner list.
I'm glad its not just me. I've been using AutoFocus since 4th January and I'm only my second pass. My first pass took me 108 days to complete and I'm currently on day 51 of my second pass with 15 pages till I get to the end.
The main reason it is taking me so long are: I included the tasks from my old to do list, I'm currently on maternity leave so don't always get a lot of time to spend on list and I want to do soooo many different things.
Like you I am looking forward to going through the list again and starting to dismiss some tasks and reaching the leaner, cleaner list.
June 12, 2009 at 16:10 |
Kate Davis
Kate Davis
A few weeks ago i was really fed up of AF. The reason too many pages and to manny passes. So it became totally impossible to manage.
This is what i did.
- I took a new note book
- I reported nothing but tasks i really wanted to act on
- i reported all future tasks and non actionable tasks on Omnifocus by project.
Sorry Mark but for me AF is just a to do list. The genius, the great idea is the metodology you have invented wich can be applied to any readable thing. :))
This is what i did.
- I took a new note book
- I reported nothing but tasks i really wanted to act on
- i reported all future tasks and non actionable tasks on Omnifocus by project.
Sorry Mark but for me AF is just a to do list. The genius, the great idea is the metodology you have invented wich can be applied to any readable thing. :))
June 12, 2009 at 16:25 |
Jupiter
Jupiter
I think the one thing which I will need to change when I write "the book of Autofocus" is the instruction to put all your backlogs onto the list. This works fine provided that people obey the instructions about dismissing. But the trouble is that when someone is new to the system they are usually reluctant to do that. The result is that huge slow-moving lists build up, and then people need to develop "tweaks" to get round something that wouldn't be a problem if the rules had been followed in the first place.
My current recommendation for building the list is to start off with a few easy tasks and to add tasks as one thinks of them or as they come up. That way the whole list remains relevant to what is actually concerning you at the moment.
My current recommendation for building the list is to start off with a few easy tasks and to add tasks as one thinks of them or as they come up. That way the whole list remains relevant to what is actually concerning you at the moment.
June 12, 2009 at 16:43 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
Jupiter:
<< Sorry Mark but for me AF is just a to do list. The genius, the great idea is the metodology you have invented wich can be applied to any readable thing. :)) >>
And there I was thinking AF was the methodology!
<< Sorry Mark but for me AF is just a to do list. The genius, the great idea is the metodology you have invented wich can be applied to any readable thing. :)) >>
And there I was thinking AF was the methodology!
June 12, 2009 at 16:50 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
<<This works fine provided that people obey the instructions about dismissing. But the trouble is that when someone is new to the system they are usually reluctant to do that>>
Maybe because the word 'dismiss' has the wrong connotations.
Maybe because the word 'dismiss' has the wrong connotations.
June 12, 2009 at 18:12 |
smileypete
smileypete
Stand by would be better !
June 12, 2009 at 19:08 |
Jupiter
Jupiter
Hibernate? :-)
Or perhaps defer?
With 'dismiss' if our /rational/ mind tells us 'don't worry it's only dismissal according to AF rules' but our /subconscious/ mind says 'nooooo! don't dismiss it!!!' who is going to win?
Or perhaps defer?
With 'dismiss' if our /rational/ mind tells us 'don't worry it's only dismissal according to AF rules' but our /subconscious/ mind says 'nooooo! don't dismiss it!!!' who is going to win?
June 12, 2009 at 19:24 |
smileypete
smileypete
Highlight. Move on. Become more realistic about what you want to do and what really needs your help getting done.
Dismiss. I guarantee more (quality & quantity) will get done by realizing you want to do less.
Dismiss. I guarantee more (quality & quantity) will get done by realizing you want to do less.
June 12, 2009 at 19:33 |
Norman U.
Norman U.
smileypete:
I thought long and hard about whether "dismiss" was the right term, and I'm still convinced that it is.
If a task is dismissed you need to think long and hard before it is reinstated. Just as if you were reinstating a dismissed member of staff, there would be an examination of what went wrong and there would also be conditions attached to the reinstatement. And just as most dismissed members of staff never get reinstated, so the majority of dismissed tasks will not reappear on the list - ever.
If you find yourself saying "Don't worry - it's only dismissal under the Af rules" then you are taking dismissal altogether too lightly. It's intended to be a stark choice: Do it or acknowledge that you are not going to do it at all.
I thought long and hard about whether "dismiss" was the right term, and I'm still convinced that it is.
If a task is dismissed you need to think long and hard before it is reinstated. Just as if you were reinstating a dismissed member of staff, there would be an examination of what went wrong and there would also be conditions attached to the reinstatement. And just as most dismissed members of staff never get reinstated, so the majority of dismissed tasks will not reappear on the list - ever.
If you find yourself saying "Don't worry - it's only dismissal under the Af rules" then you are taking dismissal altogether too lightly. It's intended to be a stark choice: Do it or acknowledge that you are not going to do it at all.
June 12, 2009 at 23:26 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
I agree. Learning to dismiss was an important step for me. Also, I realised that AF isn't for managing projects. Rather, I use my project list to generate ideas that go on the AF list. Adding other ideas, commitments and incoming stuff, this can amount to several new pages a day. I will not, however, put anything on the list that cannot be done right now (e.g. later steps on a multi-step project like writing an article).
The trick is to dismiss aggressively. In the beginning I only dismissed tasks that I felt I would probably not do at all. So I kept everything that I had to do eventually and anything that I wanted to do eventually. But why keep all that in the list? The tasks are still in my project files and/or highlighted in the notebook. So now I dismiss unless there is something on the page that I absolutely have to do or want to do right now.
Any method can be broken. If you find yourself constantly dismissing and reentering tasks, it's broken. If you constantly rephrase tasks to "work" on a page, it's broken. Ultimately it's all about setting aside your list and start working.
The trick is to dismiss aggressively. In the beginning I only dismissed tasks that I felt I would probably not do at all. So I kept everything that I had to do eventually and anything that I wanted to do eventually. But why keep all that in the list? The tasks are still in my project files and/or highlighted in the notebook. So now I dismiss unless there is something on the page that I absolutely have to do or want to do right now.
Any method can be broken. If you find yourself constantly dismissing and reentering tasks, it's broken. If you constantly rephrase tasks to "work" on a page, it's broken. Ultimately it's all about setting aside your list and start working.
June 12, 2009 at 23:32 |
Olaf B
Olaf B
Mark,
>>> If you find yourself saying "Don't worry - it's only dismissal under the Af rules" then you are taking dismissal altogether too lightly. It's intended to be a stark choice: Do it or acknowledge that you are not going to do it at all. <<<
I understand your point. OTOH, my looking at it in the opposite way "I can just add it back when I want to." is what allows me to dismiss things and move on. I had some things on the list I really wanted to do but upon reflection I knew it was not appropriate to do them for the next few months. I dismissed them, put them on my "someday/maybe" list (or, in some cases, simply remembered they were on my projects page anyway) and moved on. Perhaps later I'll make a more rational choice and put them on the list again.
I'm really not sure what is the best mental frame of mind to have.
>>> If you find yourself saying "Don't worry - it's only dismissal under the Af rules" then you are taking dismissal altogether too lightly. It's intended to be a stark choice: Do it or acknowledge that you are not going to do it at all. <<<
I understand your point. OTOH, my looking at it in the opposite way "I can just add it back when I want to." is what allows me to dismiss things and move on. I had some things on the list I really wanted to do but upon reflection I knew it was not appropriate to do them for the next few months. I dismissed them, put them on my "someday/maybe" list (or, in some cases, simply remembered they were on my projects page anyway) and moved on. Perhaps later I'll make a more rational choice and put them on the list again.
I'm really not sure what is the best mental frame of mind to have.
June 13, 2009 at 1:21 |
Mike
Mike
Kate,
>>> My first pass took me 108 days to complete and I'm currently on day 51 of my second pass with 15 pages till I get to the end.
The main reason it is taking me so long are: I included the tasks from my old to do list, I'm currently on maternity leave so don't always get a lot of time to spend on list and I want to do soooo many different things. <<<
For God's sake dismiss the whole list and start over. Put on the list ONLY things you actually plan to do in the reasonable future. If it is six months out, don't even put it there. Put it on a seperate "someday/maybe" or "dreams" list. Scan that list when your AF list gets small enough and then put A FEW things back on.
For sanity's sake, start over ;-)
>>> My first pass took me 108 days to complete and I'm currently on day 51 of my second pass with 15 pages till I get to the end.
The main reason it is taking me so long are: I included the tasks from my old to do list, I'm currently on maternity leave so don't always get a lot of time to spend on list and I want to do soooo many different things. <<<
For God's sake dismiss the whole list and start over. Put on the list ONLY things you actually plan to do in the reasonable future. If it is six months out, don't even put it there. Put it on a seperate "someday/maybe" or "dreams" list. Scan that list when your AF list gets small enough and then put A FEW things back on.
For sanity's sake, start over ;-)
June 13, 2009 at 1:24 |
Mike
Mike
>>> My first pass took me 108 days to complete and I'm currently on day 51 of my second pass with 15 pages till I get to the end.
The main reason it is taking me so long are: I included the tasks from my old to do list, I'm currently on maternity leave so don't always get a lot of time to spend on list and I want to do soooo many different things. <<<
I agree with Mike. Just report on Af what you can realy do a a short or medium term (6 month) For what is over 6 month put it on a someday list and for your old af list Throw it away !!!
AF is a powerfull, probably for me the best one i have ever had. MF gave us a wonderfull present. But it's a tool for action not a project management system, not even a GTD system.
So for keeping it operational there are 5 essential rules i would had to the system :
1. Put on AF only but the things you want to do at a short/medium term (6 month)
2. Learn to dismiss
3. In the morning firs at all before doing anything read you all AF and shoose with a paper pensil what you really want to do beginning by your big rocks & finishing by your tasks.
4. At night repport on your project management sytem all your future (over 6 month) tasks and non activable tasks and then repport the tasks and projects which become operationnal.
5. As david allen said be creative and courageous ! and most at all be PERCEVERANT
The main reason it is taking me so long are: I included the tasks from my old to do list, I'm currently on maternity leave so don't always get a lot of time to spend on list and I want to do soooo many different things. <<<
I agree with Mike. Just report on Af what you can realy do a a short or medium term (6 month) For what is over 6 month put it on a someday list and for your old af list Throw it away !!!
AF is a powerfull, probably for me the best one i have ever had. MF gave us a wonderfull present. But it's a tool for action not a project management system, not even a GTD system.
So for keeping it operational there are 5 essential rules i would had to the system :
1. Put on AF only but the things you want to do at a short/medium term (6 month)
2. Learn to dismiss
3. In the morning firs at all before doing anything read you all AF and shoose with a paper pensil what you really want to do beginning by your big rocks & finishing by your tasks.
4. At night repport on your project management sytem all your future (over 6 month) tasks and non activable tasks and then repport the tasks and projects which become operationnal.
5. As david allen said be creative and courageous ! and most at all be PERCEVERANT
June 13, 2009 at 10:57 |
Jupiter
Jupiter
Mike:
<< I had some things on the list I really wanted to do but upon reflection I knew it was not appropriate to do them for the next few months. I dismissed them, put them on my "someday/maybe" list (or, in some cases, simply remembered they were on my projects page anyway) and moved on. >>
Well, that's a good example of how dismissal should work.
<< I had some things on the list I really wanted to do but upon reflection I knew it was not appropriate to do them for the next few months. I dismissed them, put them on my "someday/maybe" list (or, in some cases, simply remembered they were on my projects page anyway) and moved on. >>
Well, that's a good example of how dismissal should work.
June 13, 2009 at 11:27 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
Kate:
<< My first pass took me 108 days to complete and I'm currently on day 51 of my second pass with 15 pages till I get to the end. >>
This is not really AF at all. It's just a First In, First Out (FIFO) list with some exceptions. And if you're going to use the FIFO method it's even more important not to dump tasks into the list from old to-do lists.
Q. What should you do with old to do lists?
A. Shred them.
Q. What should you do with AF lists that have got too long and slow?
A. Shred them.
<< My first pass took me 108 days to complete and I'm currently on day 51 of my second pass with 15 pages till I get to the end. >>
This is not really AF at all. It's just a First In, First Out (FIFO) list with some exceptions. And if you're going to use the FIFO method it's even more important not to dump tasks into the list from old to-do lists.
Q. What should you do with old to do lists?
A. Shred them.
Q. What should you do with AF lists that have got too long and slow?
A. Shred them.
June 13, 2009 at 11:33 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
For my rule 1 and 4 After thinking a medium terme would be 3 month and not 6.
3 Month = à trimestre and it's good for controling the results.
Why not to add as MF said big aims with 2 or 3 alternatives. It's a medium goal and i noticed the result was indeed intresting. I decided some strategies i would never have imagined if i did not put it on AF. But there were active and to be done during the trimestre.
3 Month = à trimestre and it's good for controling the results.
Why not to add as MF said big aims with 2 or 3 alternatives. It's a medium goal and i noticed the result was indeed intresting. I decided some strategies i would never have imagined if i did not put it on AF. But there were active and to be done during the trimestre.
June 13, 2009 at 12:24 |
Jupiter
Jupiter
I know my progress through my list looks shocking, but it is not making me feel stressed or negative, particularly as none of the items are time sensitive.
I admit I made a mistake adding in my old task list, but those tasks are probably a small percentage of my current list. However, I don't regret having them there as I have completed some important tasks such as writing my will.
One of the reasons the list is so long is because when I think of a task I add it to the list, this means I have many duplicates. The longer I spend on the list the more duplicates I find, for instance I've got 3 tasks previously completed on my current page. However, some of these duplicates are for repeating tasks such as vacuum house so I've been leaving those on the list.
Another reason for the length is I have done very little dismissing, because I haven't completed many rotations. As I'm trying to use the system as Mark's instructions I haven't dismissed any tasks if I have done at least one task on the page. However, I have already identified some tasks I'd like to dismiss e.g. research embroidery stitches; this is something I still want to do, but the related project isn't going to happen for sometime. Should I delete it now, even though there are still other tasks on the page I will do?
I am reluctant to just hack through the list because I'm interested to discover what my intuition says about the tasks and I believe I will get it down to a reasonable length. Of course, when I come to rewriting it in a new book, perhaps I'll decide to delete a lot of tasks!
I admit I made a mistake adding in my old task list, but those tasks are probably a small percentage of my current list. However, I don't regret having them there as I have completed some important tasks such as writing my will.
One of the reasons the list is so long is because when I think of a task I add it to the list, this means I have many duplicates. The longer I spend on the list the more duplicates I find, for instance I've got 3 tasks previously completed on my current page. However, some of these duplicates are for repeating tasks such as vacuum house so I've been leaving those on the list.
Another reason for the length is I have done very little dismissing, because I haven't completed many rotations. As I'm trying to use the system as Mark's instructions I haven't dismissed any tasks if I have done at least one task on the page. However, I have already identified some tasks I'd like to dismiss e.g. research embroidery stitches; this is something I still want to do, but the related project isn't going to happen for sometime. Should I delete it now, even though there are still other tasks on the page I will do?
I am reluctant to just hack through the list because I'm interested to discover what my intuition says about the tasks and I believe I will get it down to a reasonable length. Of course, when I come to rewriting it in a new book, perhaps I'll decide to delete a lot of tasks!
June 16, 2009 at 17:56 |
Kate Davis
Kate Davis
Kate:
If it's not a problem for you, then it's not a problem. But how often do you succeed in vacuuming your house? :-)
If it's not a problem for you, then it's not a problem. But how often do you succeed in vacuuming your house? :-)
June 16, 2009 at 18:47 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
At the moment not often enough, which is why I keep adding it to the list!!
June 16, 2009 at 22:53 |
Kate Davis
Kate Davis
Kate, if you ever find your list overwhelming, skim through it to find the things you absolutely must do in a short time frame and add them to the new list. Then add a task to Review Old AF list to your new one and you're free! I love having a short new list. I am also experimenting with just having "Clean" or "Organize" on my list as I find I like to do cleaning and organizing tasks in bundles. Then I just refer to my cleaning and organizing lists and do whatever stands out. This is still experimental, but for now, I like not having 50 little cleaning tasks cluttering up my list!
June 16, 2009 at 23:30 |
Mel
Mel
Hi Mel,
>>> Kate, if you ever find your list overwhelming, skim through it to find the things you absolutely must do in a short time frame and add them to the new list. Then add a task to Review Old AF list to your new one and you're free! I love having a short new list. <<<
Yes, when it gets too long something is wrong. IMO, you MUST be able to go through a pass of the list every day or you will end up feeling as if something might be falling through the cracks. Then you'll lose trust in the list.
>>> I am also experimenting with just having "Clean" or "Organize" on my list as I find I like to do cleaning and organizing tasks in bundles. Then I just refer to my cleaning and organizing lists and do whatever stands out. This is still experimental, but for now, I like not having 50 little cleaning tasks cluttering up my list! >>>
And that is the value of having seperate "project lists" or "routine lists". One item on the AF list can eliminate many many small things that just clutter it up. If I get to "Clean bike" and decide that I'm not going to do that now, it is likely that the next few items "Lube chain", "Replace bike computer battery", "Mount GPS", etc. will ALSO not be done. And they are in the way. But if I put "Work on bike" and decide that I'm not ready to do that, I just skip looking at the long list of things I have to do for that project.
>>> Kate, if you ever find your list overwhelming, skim through it to find the things you absolutely must do in a short time frame and add them to the new list. Then add a task to Review Old AF list to your new one and you're free! I love having a short new list. <<<
Yes, when it gets too long something is wrong. IMO, you MUST be able to go through a pass of the list every day or you will end up feeling as if something might be falling through the cracks. Then you'll lose trust in the list.
>>> I am also experimenting with just having "Clean" or "Organize" on my list as I find I like to do cleaning and organizing tasks in bundles. Then I just refer to my cleaning and organizing lists and do whatever stands out. This is still experimental, but for now, I like not having 50 little cleaning tasks cluttering up my list! >>>
And that is the value of having seperate "project lists" or "routine lists". One item on the AF list can eliminate many many small things that just clutter it up. If I get to "Clean bike" and decide that I'm not going to do that now, it is likely that the next few items "Lube chain", "Replace bike computer battery", "Mount GPS", etc. will ALSO not be done. And they are in the way. But if I put "Work on bike" and decide that I'm not ready to do that, I just skip looking at the long list of things I have to do for that project.
June 17, 2009 at 14:43 |
Mike
Mike
But, ... it's still working great. Somehow it always seems to work out that when I finally do have some "slow time", and can catch up on things, I always just naturally catch up to the last page, and then start going back to the beginning of the book. And start dismissing like mad. There are so many tasks there, just BEGGING to be dismissed. It's going to be fun. :-)
Once I get to this point, and start from the beginning again, it usually takes a day or two to get through all the "old" pages and reach the "newer" pages. I'm hoping it will go a lot faster this time, since I know already there are so many tasks that just need to be dismissed.
And then I'll have a lean(er), clean(er) list.
The first couple times this happened to me, when I had 30+ active pages, I started feeling a little uneasy about all the so-called "urgent" items buried in there somewhere that (I supposed) were being neglected. But now it just seems to work. If I think an item is really urgent, then I add a reminder to Outlook, in addition to putting it in Autofocus. But I don't even need to do that very much anymore. I get to nearly every new task in a day or two. It's kind of like DIT in that respect.
Not sure why the large number of pages and the slow cycle time doesn't cause more trouble for me. Overall the system just works great and I am happier with it than ever.