Discussion Forum > How to stop myself cheating the system
Linda:
I think in a case like this you have to make an additional rule for yourself. I suggest that as you arrive at the last page you draw a line after the last task on it and don't go beyond that line on that visit.
I think in a case like this you have to make an additional rule for yourself. I suggest that as you arrive at the last page you draw a line after the last task on it and don't go beyond that line on that visit.
June 25, 2009 at 9:27 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
Linda
I'd consider trying Do It Tomorrow, then you'd have a daily list to work form.
If you've tried several systems and they don't work for you, then I'd conclude the system isn't the problem. Best to think thru what the problem really is. I've done this and at first come up with thoughts like: I'm lazy or I can't be bothered. As I pushed down I found I had an issues with confidence in my competence to do the big task so I messed around with busy work as an avoidance strategy.
I'm trying affirmations with some success now to get me into what I really need to do (which is market my own business). I like "whatever happens I'll handle it" and "one step at a time is enough for me" which are both from Susan Jeffers. Hope that helps.
I'd consider trying Do It Tomorrow, then you'd have a daily list to work form.
If you've tried several systems and they don't work for you, then I'd conclude the system isn't the problem. Best to think thru what the problem really is. I've done this and at first come up with thoughts like: I'm lazy or I can't be bothered. As I pushed down I found I had an issues with confidence in my competence to do the big task so I messed around with busy work as an avoidance strategy.
I'm trying affirmations with some success now to get me into what I really need to do (which is market my own business). I like "whatever happens I'll handle it" and "one step at a time is enough for me" which are both from Susan Jeffers. Hope that helps.
June 25, 2009 at 9:49 |
Man of Kent
Man of Kent
Or you might try a question I give in my first book "Get Everything Done":
"If this procrastination is a message to me from my unconscious mind, what would that message be?"
"If this procrastination is a message to me from my unconscious mind, what would that message be?"
June 25, 2009 at 10:30 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
@Mark, Man of Kent
Thanks for your comments/advice. I really, really want to make AF work, and the rave comments from others makes me feel that I'm somehow missing the party! At least the DIT system which I have used before does give me something concrete to aim to accomplish each day.
Apart from a life-long habit of procrastination which is a hard one to change, what might be at the root of my problem is a lack of focus, no clear goals in life so I'm lacking in motivation.
There's a quote from somewhere that goes something like 'When you don't know what harbour you're aiming for, no wind is the right wind'. That kind of sums me up!
I've also tried (as you might guess) a number of books/web sites that help you 'find your purpose in life', 'discover your goals', 'uncover your mission' etc but never end up with anything really meaningful. Perhaps not everyone can have a clearly defined life purpose but end up just muddling on like me.
Thanks for your comments/advice. I really, really want to make AF work, and the rave comments from others makes me feel that I'm somehow missing the party! At least the DIT system which I have used before does give me something concrete to aim to accomplish each day.
Apart from a life-long habit of procrastination which is a hard one to change, what might be at the root of my problem is a lack of focus, no clear goals in life so I'm lacking in motivation.
There's a quote from somewhere that goes something like 'When you don't know what harbour you're aiming for, no wind is the right wind'. That kind of sums me up!
I've also tried (as you might guess) a number of books/web sites that help you 'find your purpose in life', 'discover your goals', 'uncover your mission' etc but never end up with anything really meaningful. Perhaps not everyone can have a clearly defined life purpose but end up just muddling on like me.
June 25, 2009 at 14:10 |
Linda
Linda
Mark, I was re-reading some of your exercises in "Get Everything Done", and was wondering if it wouldn't benefit someone with Linda's issue to work on the "mental strength training" exercise or the "awareness of acting on impulse" exercise? Or even keeping a time log?
MOK, I think you're so right, it's hard to look at that stuff, but the reward of doing it is so great.
Linda, why don't you use your 'procrastinating tasks' as a reward break? But don't put them on your AF list. That's what I do in the times when I'm not motivated to do much. I will do one task on my AF list, then do something that's a "procrastination activity" - like post here or go through my home emails -:), but just for a short period of time. It seems to work out to 20-30 minutes of work for a 5-10 minute break. It gives me incentive sometimes too to work really fast on that task and try to get it done in less than 20-30 minutes so that I can have my break earlier.
MOK, I think you're so right, it's hard to look at that stuff, but the reward of doing it is so great.
Linda, why don't you use your 'procrastinating tasks' as a reward break? But don't put them on your AF list. That's what I do in the times when I'm not motivated to do much. I will do one task on my AF list, then do something that's a "procrastination activity" - like post here or go through my home emails -:), but just for a short period of time. It seems to work out to 20-30 minutes of work for a 5-10 minute break. It gives me incentive sometimes too to work really fast on that task and try to get it done in less than 20-30 minutes so that I can have my break earlier.
June 25, 2009 at 14:22 |
Jacqueline
Jacqueline
Linda, I'm not a big Steve Pavlina fan, but this article wasn't bad:
http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/2005/01/how-to-discover-your-life-purpose-in-about-20-minutes/
I've said before, I really liked Barbara Sher's "Wishcraft" - available on-line, and Herminia Ibarra's "Working Identity" - both will help you find ways to find what you really get enthused about through trying things on and incorporating what you've learned about yourself in the process to define what really 'turns you on'. Maybe that's not one big "grand passion" but a bunch of little ones that you can integrate.
http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/2005/01/how-to-discover-your-life-purpose-in-about-20-minutes/
I've said before, I really liked Barbara Sher's "Wishcraft" - available on-line, and Herminia Ibarra's "Working Identity" - both will help you find ways to find what you really get enthused about through trying things on and incorporating what you've learned about yourself in the process to define what really 'turns you on'. Maybe that's not one big "grand passion" but a bunch of little ones that you can integrate.
June 25, 2009 at 14:32 |
Jacqueline
Jacqueline
@MofK
It's a very good point you made that the system's not the problem. I guess I'm looking for the foolproof system that won't let me cop out and I guess that's not invented yet (possibly AF2?) ;-)
@Jacqueline
I think the mental strength training from Get Everything Done is a great idea, and I'm going to dig out my copy and re-read it. Might even get around to doing some :-) Plus using rewards for getting the nasty stuff done - I need to do more of that, instead of rewarding myself first and then avoiding the work. In some cases it is to do with lack of confidence but more so it's avoidance of the boring scutwork.
I'm not always so poorly focused but there are some days when I know I'm going to get very little done. It's partly an issue of pacing. Some days I'll be really busy and then there's a kind of reaction, low energy/tiredness. BTW I tried Pavlina's discover-your-life-purpose exercise some years ago, but after an hour later with over 150 items on my list, I gave up in disgust!
It's a very good point you made that the system's not the problem. I guess I'm looking for the foolproof system that won't let me cop out and I guess that's not invented yet (possibly AF2?) ;-)
@Jacqueline
I think the mental strength training from Get Everything Done is a great idea, and I'm going to dig out my copy and re-read it. Might even get around to doing some :-) Plus using rewards for getting the nasty stuff done - I need to do more of that, instead of rewarding myself first and then avoiding the work. In some cases it is to do with lack of confidence but more so it's avoidance of the boring scutwork.
I'm not always so poorly focused but there are some days when I know I'm going to get very little done. It's partly an issue of pacing. Some days I'll be really busy and then there's a kind of reaction, low energy/tiredness. BTW I tried Pavlina's discover-your-life-purpose exercise some years ago, but after an hour later with over 150 items on my list, I gave up in disgust!
June 25, 2009 at 16:15 |
Linda
Linda
Linda,
I can relate to what you are telking about concerning one aspect in my life. However, even in my worst days since January there is always something I am happy with at the end of the day due AF.
Jacqueline,
Is it possible to describe those exercises you mentioned?
I can relate to what you are telking about concerning one aspect in my life. However, even in my worst days since January there is always something I am happy with at the end of the day due AF.
Jacqueline,
Is it possible to describe those exercises you mentioned?
June 25, 2009 at 16:40 |
Silvia
Silvia
Linda
Some more ramblings for you. I think detailed goals are over rated. I did the Your Best Year Yet book a few years ago and did about 2 of my 10 goals and I was pleased with that but not so pleased that I ever did it again by the book. Instead I just pick three things I'd like to do by my next Birthday - I call it my Plan 38 (I'm 38 in 2 months). They are not set in stone but I don't change them often.
They are:
- get down to 16 stone
- see friends more
- get £10k of client fee income
They don't give laser like focus, they are just there to vaguely aim at.
My current view is that really only three areas in life that are important: Health, Relationships and Work. Work is shorthand for whatever you do to make your money. Health covers physical and mental health. Every week or so I look at these and think if there's anything different I'd like to do.
As to dull work - you might just pay someone else to do some of it. For example I hate cleaning and ironing, so I hired a cleaner. If that's not an option then you are into the realms of forcing yourself to do it - more of below.
You say you have busy and non-busy days - nothing wrong with that at all. If you are doing something critical like a surgeon or air traffic controller bad days aren't good. For the rest of us (ie most of us) we have good days and bad days. I had a boss once who explained it like this. He said that sometimes I was in fifth gear and flying then I'd slow right into first gear and nothing would happen for days. He said that when I slacked off that was OK (when we weren't busy) but I should try and stay in third gear.
When I am really struggling to get anything done I choose something to do and use a timer to watch TV for 5 mins and then alternate with 5 mins of work. It might be slow but if I do that for an hour, half an hour of something is better than being slumped on the sofa then feeling guilty.
Ramblings over.
Some more ramblings for you. I think detailed goals are over rated. I did the Your Best Year Yet book a few years ago and did about 2 of my 10 goals and I was pleased with that but not so pleased that I ever did it again by the book. Instead I just pick three things I'd like to do by my next Birthday - I call it my Plan 38 (I'm 38 in 2 months). They are not set in stone but I don't change them often.
They are:
- get down to 16 stone
- see friends more
- get £10k of client fee income
They don't give laser like focus, they are just there to vaguely aim at.
My current view is that really only three areas in life that are important: Health, Relationships and Work. Work is shorthand for whatever you do to make your money. Health covers physical and mental health. Every week or so I look at these and think if there's anything different I'd like to do.
As to dull work - you might just pay someone else to do some of it. For example I hate cleaning and ironing, so I hired a cleaner. If that's not an option then you are into the realms of forcing yourself to do it - more of below.
You say you have busy and non-busy days - nothing wrong with that at all. If you are doing something critical like a surgeon or air traffic controller bad days aren't good. For the rest of us (ie most of us) we have good days and bad days. I had a boss once who explained it like this. He said that sometimes I was in fifth gear and flying then I'd slow right into first gear and nothing would happen for days. He said that when I slacked off that was OK (when we weren't busy) but I should try and stay in third gear.
When I am really struggling to get anything done I choose something to do and use a timer to watch TV for 5 mins and then alternate with 5 mins of work. It might be slow but if I do that for an hour, half an hour of something is better than being slumped on the sofa then feeling guilty.
Ramblings over.
June 25, 2009 at 17:17 |
Man of Kent
Man of Kent
>> make AF work, and the rave comments from others makes me feel that I'm somehow missing the party! >>
Well count me in as someone received poor directions to the party. And while I'm one of the AF fan-boys, a combination of the flu, anticipation of Mark's latest system and a whack of unconscious stimuli have conspired to prevent me from looking at my AF list... IN OVER 5 DAYS.
Well count me in as someone received poor directions to the party. And while I'm one of the AF fan-boys, a combination of the flu, anticipation of Mark's latest system and a whack of unconscious stimuli have conspired to prevent me from looking at my AF list... IN OVER 5 DAYS.
June 25, 2009 at 17:29 |
Avrum
Avrum
>> what might be at the root of my problem is a lack of focus, no clear goals in life >>
Ah, now that's a party I've planned, crashed, and have been invited to. Linda - for most working slobs, GTD and all other systems provide an illusion of meaning. The journey to do that which stirs your heart is long and arduous. And I don't believe there's a single blog post, book, podcast and/or therapy hour that will change the nature of that process. Do we have a choice to avoid the journey? Yes. Of course, the choice now becomes: What stimuli will sufficiently numb myself, from myself?
Ah, now that's a party I've planned, crashed, and have been invited to. Linda - for most working slobs, GTD and all other systems provide an illusion of meaning. The journey to do that which stirs your heart is long and arduous. And I don't believe there's a single blog post, book, podcast and/or therapy hour that will change the nature of that process. Do we have a choice to avoid the journey? Yes. Of course, the choice now becomes: What stimuli will sufficiently numb myself, from myself?
June 25, 2009 at 17:38 |
Avrum
Avrum
Sorry more ramblings....
I have mixed views on Steve Pavlina dot com. In my more charitable moods (very rare) I think well he's a sort of latter day philosopher. In my less charitable moods I think some of the stuff is bonkers .... check out the article on "polyamory". It made my jaw drop.
I always laugh when I read blogs on the internet with stuff like:
- I get up at 4:30 am and meditate for an hour before I start the day....
- I did 37 extra courses and got my degree in a eighteen months....
- I outsourced my life and work 17 minutes a day...
- Buy my e-book (your life sorted in six steps) for 8 dollars - The Secrets They Don't Want You To Know
It also worries me that so much time/life management advice is handed out by folk who haven't ever had a real and demanding job.
I'm wearing my soap box out today.
I have mixed views on Steve Pavlina dot com. In my more charitable moods (very rare) I think well he's a sort of latter day philosopher. In my less charitable moods I think some of the stuff is bonkers .... check out the article on "polyamory". It made my jaw drop.
I always laugh when I read blogs on the internet with stuff like:
- I get up at 4:30 am and meditate for an hour before I start the day....
- I did 37 extra courses and got my degree in a eighteen months....
- I outsourced my life and work 17 minutes a day...
- Buy my e-book (your life sorted in six steps) for 8 dollars - The Secrets They Don't Want You To Know
It also worries me that so much time/life management advice is handed out by folk who haven't ever had a real and demanding job.
I'm wearing my soap box out today.
June 25, 2009 at 17:46 |
Man of Kent
Man of Kent
Man of Kent - when I read this:
http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/2008/05/10-reasons-you-should-never-have-a-religion/
I thought, Pavlina has a few screws loose.
My hunch, is that in the absence of religion (belief in a Creator), the coveting of youth, the fragmentation of extended family (due to moves), and the disinterest in wisdom that the elderly often bring... we've created a vacuum that is being filled by sham prophets with a wordpress account.
http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/2008/05/10-reasons-you-should-never-have-a-religion/
I thought, Pavlina has a few screws loose.
My hunch, is that in the absence of religion (belief in a Creator), the coveting of youth, the fragmentation of extended family (due to moves), and the disinterest in wisdom that the elderly often bring... we've created a vacuum that is being filled by sham prophets with a wordpress account.
June 25, 2009 at 17:58 |
Avrum
Avrum
Avrum - and possibly the aim is to put something controversial on the blog to keep people reading.
June 25, 2009 at 18:39 |
Man of Kent
Man of Kent
I don't know about all this purpose stuff. I wasted quite a few years thinking I needed some kind of grand purpose. I know lots of people who have accomplished a lot and have been successful (in their own terms) that never had a "purpose", and never really had long-term goals in the way I would think of them. What they do have is lots of self-discipline. Which is good, because that's something that can be learned.
Instead of a purpose, I think more in terms of generally living in accordance with kind of vague principles that are more like character traits rather than goals or purposes or outcomes, and am much happier for it. Do a good job; leave people glad that they've worked with me or been friends with me; be a good mom to both 2 legged and fur-kids; never stop learning; follow my curiousity; live a little dangerously once in awhile. :-) If I had a life where I didn't neglect any of those things, I would consider it well-lived.
MOK, Pavlina creeps me out - even before the poly thing. I think he lost me at manifestation. I find it amazing that more than one woman would want to be polyamorous with him. Maybe he's the James Frey of the internet world and The Smoking Gun will have fun with him some day, who knows.
Sorry, I'm being uncharitable, I just don't like the implication in some of his stuff that you're kind of stupid if you don't follow monomaniacal paths. And really, what kind of person would cry over *his* statement of purpose? I think it's more valuable to use a list like that and determine what you're kind of mildly excited about and then go try out a bunch of those things.
Here's a very funny post on him called "Steve Pavlina is the Devil."
http://www.chuurchofapathy.com/StevePavlinaSucks.html
Silvia, I will have to check my book at home - maybe Mark can explain... :-)
Instead of a purpose, I think more in terms of generally living in accordance with kind of vague principles that are more like character traits rather than goals or purposes or outcomes, and am much happier for it. Do a good job; leave people glad that they've worked with me or been friends with me; be a good mom to both 2 legged and fur-kids; never stop learning; follow my curiousity; live a little dangerously once in awhile. :-) If I had a life where I didn't neglect any of those things, I would consider it well-lived.
MOK, Pavlina creeps me out - even before the poly thing. I think he lost me at manifestation. I find it amazing that more than one woman would want to be polyamorous with him. Maybe he's the James Frey of the internet world and The Smoking Gun will have fun with him some day, who knows.
Sorry, I'm being uncharitable, I just don't like the implication in some of his stuff that you're kind of stupid if you don't follow monomaniacal paths. And really, what kind of person would cry over *his* statement of purpose? I think it's more valuable to use a list like that and determine what you're kind of mildly excited about and then go try out a bunch of those things.
Here's a very funny post on him called "Steve Pavlina is the Devil."
http://www.chuurchofapathy.com/StevePavlinaSucks.html
Silvia, I will have to check my book at home - maybe Mark can explain... :-)
June 25, 2009 at 19:08 |
Jacqueline
Jacqueline
Well, you've all cheered me up no end with your comments, when I've snatched a peek at the forum in the short periods today when I haven't had a toddler or two hanging off my leg - many thanks.
Regarding the references mentioned - I think I must have tried them all - gulp! I did Best Year Yet some years ago and remember making a wonderful plan for the year ahead, which I promptly ignored! I bought the Wishcraft book which is often highly recommended and couldn't get past page 20.Steve Pavlina - I used to read his blog for a while but I agree, he seemed very self-congratulatory and started getting weirder, so I stopped.
Regarding the references mentioned - I think I must have tried them all - gulp! I did Best Year Yet some years ago and remember making a wonderful plan for the year ahead, which I promptly ignored! I bought the Wishcraft book which is often highly recommended and couldn't get past page 20.Steve Pavlina - I used to read his blog for a while but I agree, he seemed very self-congratulatory and started getting weirder, so I stopped.
June 25, 2009 at 19:56 |
Linda
Linda
Jacqueline
<<I think more in terms of generally living in accordance with kind of vague principles that are more like character traits rather than goals or purposes or outcomes>>
That resonates with me, think it's a very good way to bring purpose to my life because it allows me to set a direction rather than feel I should know the 'right' destination. Having principles I can commit to would influence myself-view and also my actions. For example, by thinking of myself as someone who values keeping committments, then I am more likely to value working my AF list honestly and not back-sliding.
<<I think more in terms of generally living in accordance with kind of vague principles that are more like character traits rather than goals or purposes or outcomes>>
That resonates with me, think it's a very good way to bring purpose to my life because it allows me to set a direction rather than feel I should know the 'right' destination. Having principles I can commit to would influence myself-view and also my actions. For example, by thinking of myself as someone who values keeping committments, then I am more likely to value working my AF list honestly and not back-sliding.
June 25, 2009 at 20:04 |
Linda
Linda
Linda - if it makes you feel any better.... Today my plan was do some technical reading. This will make sure that when I am marketing my business I'll sound like I know what I am talking about. Of course this is BS to avoid marketing because I've been in the business for 17 years and more or less know what I'm doing. Day went as follows...
Woke up at 9 am. Snacks and watching more episodes of Dexter took me to noon. Must get going.... Decided walk was a priority (got to keep fit) Walked into town, had coffee. Walked home via carpet shop. Popped in to see my mum to discuss findings in carpet shop (we're renovating a flat together). Had argument with her over type of floor then she asked about my diet and my marketing .... I left. More snax, more Dexter - goodness its nearly 8:30 pm - must do more walking to get to 10,000 steps. Oh and lots of posting here. You can't beat productivity like that.
Woke up at 9 am. Snacks and watching more episodes of Dexter took me to noon. Must get going.... Decided walk was a priority (got to keep fit) Walked into town, had coffee. Walked home via carpet shop. Popped in to see my mum to discuss findings in carpet shop (we're renovating a flat together). Had argument with her over type of floor then she asked about my diet and my marketing .... I left. More snax, more Dexter - goodness its nearly 8:30 pm - must do more walking to get to 10,000 steps. Oh and lots of posting here. You can't beat productivity like that.
June 25, 2009 at 20:28 |
Man of Kent
Man of Kent
Man of Kent - you stole my day!!
June 25, 2009 at 20:53 |
Avrum
Avrum
Linda - if you've got little kids too - that's a whole different kettle of fish in my experience. For some reason, it took about 5 or 6 years after the second one before I could get excited about and really start being able to work on my own dreams. I would get so frustrated with myself because I could stay on track so well before, but it all went out the window after kids. I guess some people - like Mel? - can balance things better, I just couldn't. I've only ever been a single parent though, so maybe it's different if you're not.
I should say as well that by lowering my standards for boring things like cleaning - doing stuff like just washing the center of the kitchen floor, and getting a few little routines going, and trying to get these things done in a mad blitz of 15 minutes or so once or twice a day has helped a lot.
I should say as well that by lowering my standards for boring things like cleaning - doing stuff like just washing the center of the kitchen floor, and getting a few little routines going, and trying to get these things done in a mad blitz of 15 minutes or so once or twice a day has helped a lot.
June 25, 2009 at 21:15 |
Jacqueline
Jacqueline
Man of Kent - reading that was so funny and also gave me deja vu. How to totally derail your day in one easy lesson :-)
It reminded me of the day I was going to mark a set of scripts, but I just knew I was going to put it off. So I decided to firmly nip this habit in the bud by tackling my procastination up front.
I spent most of the day being very productive, researching on the web. I investigated the signs of procrastination, the causes of procrastination, the triggers for procrastination, the remedies for procrastination, comparing and contrasting different experts' views, made my own summaries of the topic, including quick fixes for when I feel procrastination coming on then printed several copies for handy reference. At the end of the day I was the world's expert on the subject. However, of the tasks I had carefully planned the night before, I had achieved exactly zero!
If it wasn't funny it would be sad (or should that be the other way round)?
It reminded me of the day I was going to mark a set of scripts, but I just knew I was going to put it off. So I decided to firmly nip this habit in the bud by tackling my procastination up front.
I spent most of the day being very productive, researching on the web. I investigated the signs of procrastination, the causes of procrastination, the triggers for procrastination, the remedies for procrastination, comparing and contrasting different experts' views, made my own summaries of the topic, including quick fixes for when I feel procrastination coming on then printed several copies for handy reference. At the end of the day I was the world's expert on the subject. However, of the tasks I had carefully planned the night before, I had achieved exactly zero!
If it wasn't funny it would be sad (or should that be the other way round)?
June 25, 2009 at 21:31 |
Linda
Linda
Jacqueline
<<but it all went out the window after kids.>> I'm a generation beyond that (should have made it plain) and it's my grandchildren I am looking after. Just when the kids have left home and you had some years when your time is your own - and then the kids go and have kids themselves. Life is tough for young families and they need your help and you want to give it.
Suddenly you're back in the world of nappies, teething, tantrums 2 days a week as well as working 3 days/week but your are 30 years older than when you did it last time round! I've started to refer to this period of my life as the 'wilderness years'.. . . .
Lowering your standards - I say what standards :-)
<<but it all went out the window after kids.>> I'm a generation beyond that (should have made it plain) and it's my grandchildren I am looking after. Just when the kids have left home and you had some years when your time is your own - and then the kids go and have kids themselves. Life is tough for young families and they need your help and you want to give it.
Suddenly you're back in the world of nappies, teething, tantrums 2 days a week as well as working 3 days/week but your are 30 years older than when you did it last time round! I've started to refer to this period of my life as the 'wilderness years'.. . . .
Lowering your standards - I say what standards :-)
June 25, 2009 at 21:43 |
Linda
Linda
>> I investigated the signs of procrastination, the causes of procrastination, the triggers...
Gulp. I've had a few of those days myself.
Gulp. I've had a few of those days myself.
June 25, 2009 at 21:54 |
Avrum
Avrum
It just goes to show that we can work really hard when we want to. It's just the the focus of our efforts needs to be re-directed. Or, as Mark says towsrds the start of this thread: "If this procrastination is a message to me from my unconscious mind, what would that message be?"
June 25, 2009 at 22:19 |
Linda
Linda
Linda
Don't be too hard on yourself looking after kids full is hard work and relentless. You might want to think about what you want. Clearly you are solving a practical problem that your own kids have but is that right for you?
Its food for thought that we don't really have a vast amount of time on the planet. I watched my own parents work into their late sixties before retiring because they wanted to make sure they were financially secure. Then they spent large patches of their time looking after their own parents. Now they are in their middle to late seventies and whilst ok healthwise they just don't a lot of energy to do a lot. Should they have retired sooner or chosen a different approach for their parents to give more time for pursuing what they wanted to do? I don't know but these things are worth thinking through. And don't be shy about putting yourself first.
Don't be too hard on yourself looking after kids full is hard work and relentless. You might want to think about what you want. Clearly you are solving a practical problem that your own kids have but is that right for you?
Its food for thought that we don't really have a vast amount of time on the planet. I watched my own parents work into their late sixties before retiring because they wanted to make sure they were financially secure. Then they spent large patches of their time looking after their own parents. Now they are in their middle to late seventies and whilst ok healthwise they just don't a lot of energy to do a lot. Should they have retired sooner or chosen a different approach for their parents to give more time for pursuing what they wanted to do? I don't know but these things are worth thinking through. And don't be shy about putting yourself first.
June 25, 2009 at 22:59 |
Man of Kent
Man of Kent
Jacqueline,
Do you have any more of those "vague principles" to share? Those resonated a lot with me, but I seem to have trouble coming up with them myself.
Do you have any more of those "vague principles" to share? Those resonated a lot with me, but I seem to have trouble coming up with them myself.
June 26, 2009 at 2:11 |
Dan
Dan
Dan
Here's a list that might be helpful:
http://www.dearpeggy.com/3-life/lpprinciples.html
but I think that to be really useful, we need to determine how to put those principles into action on an ongoing basis.
Here's a list that might be helpful:
http://www.dearpeggy.com/3-life/lpprinciples.html
but I think that to be really useful, we need to determine how to put those principles into action on an ongoing basis.
June 26, 2009 at 10:09 |
Linda
Linda
My nadir of procrastination came when I was working in a Government ministry in Whitehall in the 70s. I had an important report to write which I had been procrastinating over, so I decided to come into work one Saturday and spend the day without distractions finishing the report. Now those were the days when there were no mobile phones, no computers, and it was forbidden to make personal calls from the phones. As no one worked on a Saturday except the duty officers there really were no possible distractions at all.
So I went to the office at my normal working time (40 minute train journey followed by 15 minute walk), sat at my desk all day, and returned home at my normal time.
I did not do one single word of the report.
So I went to the office at my normal working time (40 minute train journey followed by 15 minute walk), sat at my desk all day, and returned home at my normal time.
I did not do one single word of the report.
June 26, 2009 at 11:01 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
Hi Mark
This is a cliffhanger! LOL!
So tell us......what came next?
learning as I go
This is a cliffhanger! LOL!
So tell us......what came next?
learning as I go
June 26, 2009 at 13:00 |
learning as I go
learning as I go
>> I did not do one single word of the report.
Ha! And I was under the illusion that my sorry ass would be productive sans internet.
Ha! And I was under the illusion that my sorry ass would be productive sans internet.
June 26, 2009 at 13:40 |
Avrum
Avrum
Wow Mark - that's hard core procrastination. I guess there's hope for us all... :-) I wonder if it's possible to manufacture that "hitting bottom" feeling. I did do something out of a book years ago where I calculated the number of days I had lived and how many days I had left - for some reason that triggered the knowledge that I could spend the next 20 years doing what I had been doing and not getting results or choose to change.
Linda, I think actually living your principles / values would take consciously doing something similar to what Ben Franklin did with his list of 13 virtues.
http://www.flamebright.com/PTPages/Benjamin.asp
http://lifehacker.com/157421/ben-franklin-in-your-diy-planner
Or do something like I did (among other things - like doing what I feared/resisted most first thing every day) when battling my own procrastination about 10 years ago, and that was over a year of daily sentence completions in my journal every morning from all of Nathaniel Branden's books on self-esteem. It only took about 15 minutes (I wrote them on recipe cards and would pick a new one every week) - it was useful, because before that, I was journaling on how everything sucked and how much I sucked for putting things off and obsessing over what I was worried about. I don't know why it worked so well, but it did. Maybe because we go unconscious when we're doing this stuff and doing stuff like this makes us more conscious? Here's a 30 week program:
http://www.nathanielbranden.com/catalog/articles_essays/sentence_completion.html
I kind of magically started doing what I had written out. And it wasn't painful at all.
Dan, I think if you tried something like that, you might uncover what your own principles are? Or take a quick read through Marcus Aurelius' Meditations. He kind of covers everything.
http://www.gutenberg.org/dirs/etext97/selfh10.txt
I like this passage from Meditations. I think it's useful every once in awhile to remind ourselves that we're going to die someday.:
But how to make that right use of himself that he should,
how to observe exactly in all things that which is right and just,
how to redress and rectify all wrong, or sudden apprehensions and imaginations,
and even of this particular, whether he should live any longer or no,
to consider duly; for all such things, wherein the best strength and vigour of the mind is most requisite; his power and ability will be past and gone.
Thou must hasten therefore; not only because thou art every day nearer unto death than other, but also because that intellective faculty in thee, whereby thou art enabled to know the true nature of things, and to order all thy actions by that knowledge, doth daily waste and decay: or, may fail thee before thou die.
Linda, I think actually living your principles / values would take consciously doing something similar to what Ben Franklin did with his list of 13 virtues.
http://www.flamebright.com/PTPages/Benjamin.asp
http://lifehacker.com/157421/ben-franklin-in-your-diy-planner
Or do something like I did (among other things - like doing what I feared/resisted most first thing every day) when battling my own procrastination about 10 years ago, and that was over a year of daily sentence completions in my journal every morning from all of Nathaniel Branden's books on self-esteem. It only took about 15 minutes (I wrote them on recipe cards and would pick a new one every week) - it was useful, because before that, I was journaling on how everything sucked and how much I sucked for putting things off and obsessing over what I was worried about. I don't know why it worked so well, but it did. Maybe because we go unconscious when we're doing this stuff and doing stuff like this makes us more conscious? Here's a 30 week program:
http://www.nathanielbranden.com/catalog/articles_essays/sentence_completion.html
I kind of magically started doing what I had written out. And it wasn't painful at all.
Dan, I think if you tried something like that, you might uncover what your own principles are? Or take a quick read through Marcus Aurelius' Meditations. He kind of covers everything.
http://www.gutenberg.org/dirs/etext97/selfh10.txt
I like this passage from Meditations. I think it's useful every once in awhile to remind ourselves that we're going to die someday.:
But how to make that right use of himself that he should,
how to observe exactly in all things that which is right and just,
how to redress and rectify all wrong, or sudden apprehensions and imaginations,
and even of this particular, whether he should live any longer or no,
to consider duly; for all such things, wherein the best strength and vigour of the mind is most requisite; his power and ability will be past and gone.
Thou must hasten therefore; not only because thou art every day nearer unto death than other, but also because that intellective faculty in thee, whereby thou art enabled to know the true nature of things, and to order all thy actions by that knowledge, doth daily waste and decay: or, may fail thee before thou die.
June 26, 2009 at 13:58 |
Jacqueline
Jacqueline
Silvia, I think you have to read all of Mark's book to really get the benefit of it, but the mental strength training is at the end of the Introduction.
- Every evening decide on one thing you are going to do the next day without fail
- Work on that until you've done it for a period of time without fail.
- Then select two tasks, then three etc.
I like this phrase:
"Don't accept any excuses from yourself for not doing your task. If you haven't done it, then you have failed - period."
- Every evening decide on one thing you are going to do the next day without fail
- Work on that until you've done it for a period of time without fail.
- Then select two tasks, then three etc.
I like this phrase:
"Don't accept any excuses from yourself for not doing your task. If you haven't done it, then you have failed - period."
June 26, 2009 at 14:33 |
Jacqueline
Jacqueline
Gad, one more thing!
This sentence completion program is even better for procrastinators:
http://rous.redbarn.org/objectivism/Writing/NathanielBranden/TakingResponsibilityCompletionProgram.html
This sentence completion program is even better for procrastinators:
http://rous.redbarn.org/objectivism/Writing/NathanielBranden/TakingResponsibilityCompletionProgram.html
June 26, 2009 at 14:47 |
Jacqueline
Jacqueline
Jacqueline - I found just the same as you with journaling - it was all so negative. I'd be interested to know if anyone else has had success with sentence completion. On mental strength training I am sure Mark has said that people find this exercise very difficult. Mark - do you still recommend it?
June 26, 2009 at 16:22 |
Man of Kent
Man of Kent
<< I did not do one single word of the report.>>
Mark, somehow that makes me feel much better about my own struggles with my wayward self!
Jacqueline - I couldn't remember the name of the man who devised those 13 virtues - thanks for reminding me it was Benjamin Franklin. The links to sentence completion exercises looks intriguing and definitely worth pursuing - although the pessimist in me worries that it's yet another thing to procrastinate. Clearly some mental strength training is required. Must start first thing tomorrow morning!
Mark, somehow that makes me feel much better about my own struggles with my wayward self!
Jacqueline - I couldn't remember the name of the man who devised those 13 virtues - thanks for reminding me it was Benjamin Franklin. The links to sentence completion exercises looks intriguing and definitely worth pursuing - although the pessimist in me worries that it's yet another thing to procrastinate. Clearly some mental strength training is required. Must start first thing tomorrow morning!
June 26, 2009 at 17:34 |
Linda
Linda
Jacqueline,
Thanks for the words about the the mental strength training! I prefer the AF way, it works better for me.
Recently, someone mentioned the website procrastinus. I don't consider myself a procrastinator anymore. : D ( This does not mean I don't procrastinate.) I tried to answer the questions there to measure my procrastination, and gave up while I was doing. I just picked a few sentences I liked and will apply them on a daily basis.
Yes, I am reading DIT for the third time. It is a very good book. As for Nathaniel Braden, I read one of his, about self steem, a very good one, which Mark Forster mentions in his website. I 've never forgotten. There were few sentences to complete in this book after short and very good examples he mentioned.
By the way, as I have the habit of a few tabs open, I 'm reading this
http://kalman.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/06/25/time-wastes-too-fast/
Thanks for the words about the the mental strength training! I prefer the AF way, it works better for me.
Recently, someone mentioned the website procrastinus. I don't consider myself a procrastinator anymore. : D ( This does not mean I don't procrastinate.) I tried to answer the questions there to measure my procrastination, and gave up while I was doing. I just picked a few sentences I liked and will apply them on a daily basis.
Yes, I am reading DIT for the third time. It is a very good book. As for Nathaniel Braden, I read one of his, about self steem, a very good one, which Mark Forster mentions in his website. I 've never forgotten. There were few sentences to complete in this book after short and very good examples he mentioned.
By the way, as I have the habit of a few tabs open, I 'm reading this
http://kalman.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/06/25/time-wastes-too-fast/
June 27, 2009 at 1:55 |
Silvia
Silvia
Silvia, I agree about liking AF more than the formal mental strength training exercise - AF is a kind of mental strength training exercise in itself! :-)
June 27, 2009 at 2:42 |
Jacqueline
Jacqueline
Silvia:
<< By the way, as I have the habit of a few tabs open, I 'm reading this
http://kalman.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/06/25/time-wastes-too-fast/ >>
The Jeffersons actually managed to read "Tristram Shandy"? Now that really is an achievement!
http://www.markforster.net/blog/2006/11/3/how-to-finish-reading-all-the-books-you-start.html
<< By the way, as I have the habit of a few tabs open, I 'm reading this
http://kalman.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/06/25/time-wastes-too-fast/ >>
The Jeffersons actually managed to read "Tristram Shandy"? Now that really is an achievement!
http://www.markforster.net/blog/2006/11/3/how-to-finish-reading-all-the-books-you-start.html
June 27, 2009 at 9:19 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
I'm working the last active page and not feeling very motivated. I look down the list and the item standing out is 'Check emails'. So I doodle around in email for a few minutes, then cross off the item as done, and re-enter it at the bottom, as it is a recurring task.
I start again at the top (still working the same page) and nothing stands out again except the last entry 'Check emails'. So I say to myself, 'I wonder if that urgent email has arrived yet?' and fall back into the email black hole again, repeating the crossing off and re-entering. In the end, I can have that same task or other easy ones like it, re-entered multiple times on the page all day, or even extend onto the next page, like a mini groundhog day! The only thing that gets me motivated is an urgent deadline.
This habit of doing/readding recurring tasks while avoiding the important stuff isn't against the 'rules' of the system though certainly against the spirit of it. Probably the reason that AF has never consistently worked for me. I fared better with AF condensed as it gave more structure with a clear set of tasks to achieve each day but even with that I found ways to cheat. Taking emails out of AF altogether does help but then I find another task to use as a procrastinator.