FV and FVP Forum > Feasibility of preselected task following a change in circumstances
Marc wrote, regarding any (not necessarily the root) preselected task: <<circumstances may have changed and the conditions to execute the task are no longer there.>>
Mark Forster wrote, regarding any (not necessarily the root) preselected task: <<If at any stage you find that a task on the list is no longer relevant, then delete it.>>
Mark's instructions seem to me to apply to Marc's example.
Mark Forster wrote, regarding any (not necessarily the root) preselected task: <<If at any stage you find that a task on the list is no longer relevant, then delete it.>>
Mark's instructions seem to me to apply to Marc's example.
March 15, 2012 at 14:28 |
moises
moises
I think that the larger issues raised by Marc are quite significant. The circumstances in which we make the decision usually differ from the circumstances in which we execute the decision.
If the only circumstance that changes is my psychological readiness, I would view that as a very poor reason to delete a task. The whole point of these systems is that our present self is committing our future self to an activity. Our present self is ready for the future self to do it. But when the future becomes the new present, the new present self often is not ready to do it. That is when I believe that I must give greater weight to my past self than my present self.
If the only circumstance that changes is my psychological readiness, I would view that as a very poor reason to delete a task. The whole point of these systems is that our present self is committing our future self to an activity. Our present self is ready for the future self to do it. But when the future becomes the new present, the new present self often is not ready to do it. That is when I believe that I must give greater weight to my past self than my present self.
March 15, 2012 at 14:36 |
moises
moises
As Mark has advised and please do correct me, if I am wrong, you should use this "escape" option very consciously and not as a standard routine.
Just food for thought: how often does it really happen that the circumstances do change so dramatically, that your preselected list of task does not make any sense anymore? It happens, however, there was a reason why you did select the task. Think about it.
Just food for thought: how often does it really happen that the circumstances do change so dramatically, that your preselected list of task does not make any sense anymore? It happens, however, there was a reason why you did select the task. Think about it.
March 15, 2012 at 14:39 |
Stefano F. Rausch
Stefano F. Rausch
I thought Marc was asking about situations in which an item on the ladder or chain (Discuss Important Project with Boss) cannot be done when you reach it because circumstances have changed since you made the preselection (boss is now in a meeting). In that case I suppose one would cross the item off the list and re-enter at the bottom.
March 15, 2012 at 15:45 |
Richard C
Richard C
If a single task is no longer relevant, then you can delete it.
But if your whole preselection is no longer relevant, then Mark writes in the instructions that you can scrap it and reselect from the beginning, or you can reselect starting from the last selected task.
I find this is working great, whenever I spend a long time on a single task, or come back from a long break, or get interrupted by a meeting, and find myself feeling out of touch with my preselected list.
But if your whole preselection is no longer relevant, then Mark writes in the instructions that you can scrap it and reselect from the beginning, or you can reselect starting from the last selected task.
I find this is working great, whenever I spend a long time on a single task, or come back from a long break, or get interrupted by a meeting, and find myself feeling out of touch with my preselected list.
March 15, 2012 at 18:11 |
Seraphim
Seraphim
I think part of "wanting to do x before y" is feeling confident that there is time to do x and then get to y before conditions change. This is something that we will no doubt get better at over time.
I am tending to complete my ladders within the current work session only about half the time, which has been no problem for my ultra-flexible schedule. But I can already feel the time factor taking on an increased weight as I construct each ladder. Also, shorter ladders mean that my big important projects get more frequent attention, for which they are itching.
I am tending to complete my ladders within the current work session only about half the time, which has been no problem for my ultra-flexible schedule. But I can already feel the time factor taking on an increased weight as I construct each ladder. Also, shorter ladders mean that my big important projects get more frequent attention, for which they are itching.
March 16, 2012 at 4:50 |
Bernie
Bernie
Bernie wrote:
<< my ultra-flexible schedule >>
I've been wanting to tell you, I would love to hear your story sometime of how you became financially independent (which you mentioned in the other forum a few times).
<< my ultra-flexible schedule >>
I've been wanting to tell you, I would love to hear your story sometime of how you became financially independent (which you mentioned in the other forum a few times).
March 16, 2012 at 5:12 |
Seraphim
Seraphim
What I meant was not the case where a task is no longer relevant, but the interpretation of Richard C. If I have a task "discuss X with colleague" and said colleague is at his desk in front of me, in AF/SF this will influence if the task stands out or not. In FV, I may well have selected the task, but when I reach it, my colleague has gone off home or to a meeting. The task is still relevant, I still need and want to do it, but can't at this particular time. My question was about the best way to handle this in FV.
One possible answer would be this. I reach the task. I look at my colleague's desk and notice he's gone. In the spirit of "little and often", this means I've taken some action, however minimal. So I can cross out the task, rewrite it at the end of the list and happily go to the next one.
Does this make sense?
One possible answer would be this. I reach the task. I look at my colleague's desk and notice he's gone. In the spirit of "little and often", this means I've taken some action, however minimal. So I can cross out the task, rewrite it at the end of the list and happily go to the next one.
Does this make sense?
March 16, 2012 at 8:20 |
Marc (from Brussels)
Marc (from Brussels)
Marc:
That would be the correct way according to the rules, but additionally when your colleage comes back again dot the task and do it immediately.
That would be the correct way according to the rules, but additionally when your colleage comes back again dot the task and do it immediately.
March 16, 2012 at 8:26 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
What about this scenario: There is a task you must complete today (thus urgent) and you add it to the end of your list and mark it with a dot. All ok so far.
Now you start working from the back, but at the specific moment you cannot work on this urgent task. The task must however still be completed today, but for some reason you cannot work on it right now. (Maybe you are waiting for something from one of your employees.)
It will be silly to cross it off and add it to your list at the end as it is already at the end. There will also be a danger that once you continue working on the other tasks that you will forget about this task. (If you do not complete the chain in the day).
For me this is the biggest drawback in this system vs SF as this was not an issue in SF.
Note: I am in finance and daily must do's are plenty.
Now you start working from the back, but at the specific moment you cannot work on this urgent task. The task must however still be completed today, but for some reason you cannot work on it right now. (Maybe you are waiting for something from one of your employees.)
It will be silly to cross it off and add it to your list at the end as it is already at the end. There will also be a danger that once you continue working on the other tasks that you will forget about this task. (If you do not complete the chain in the day).
For me this is the biggest drawback in this system vs SF as this was not an issue in SF.
Note: I am in finance and daily must do's are plenty.
March 16, 2012 at 10:39 |
Nico
Nico
(Maybe you are waiting for something from one of your employees.)
In this case, enter "get thing from this employee". Action is to send a reminder, but also when said employee comes through to take up Thing. Then you can activate that critical task that's been on hold.
In this case, enter "get thing from this employee". Action is to send a reminder, but also when said employee comes through to take up Thing. Then you can activate that critical task that's been on hold.
March 16, 2012 at 11:14 |
Alan Baljeu
Alan Baljeu
Alan: This will still not solve the issue that you may miss a deadline that was due today if you do not finish your current chain for the day.
March 16, 2012 at 11:33 |
Nico
Nico
No it will solve that. You are allowed to add the urgent task to your chain as soon as your colleague comes through.
March 16, 2012 at 11:38 |
Alan Baljeu
Alan Baljeu
Alan is correct. There is no problem here. The rules cover the situation perfectly adequately.
March 16, 2012 at 11:43 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
If you know that "if X isn't complete by 4:00pm we're screwed" and that is a daily occurence, then all you might need is a way to ensure that the urgency is visble to you at the appropriate time. A reminder from your calendar, an alarm or even writing down "Need X from George by 3:30" on your list might be all it takes. Or build a checklist that you execute an hour before the end of your day or what ever seems reasonable and put Execute Checklist on the FV list :)
March 16, 2012 at 12:20 |
Tom L.
Tom L.
Alan/Mark: That will mean you need to keep the task in the back of your mind and to remember that you have this deadline for today. This is ok if you have one task, but not ok if there is plenty of tasks. Or you should remind yourself constantly to check the end of your list.
Also, the way I like to work is to sometimes get lost in one task and work on it as long as I want to. (Sometimes the whole day). Using this I will keep on worrying if all my deadlines for today is done. This is unnecessary clutter that keeps you from working optimally.
Also, the way I like to work is to sometimes get lost in one task and work on it as long as I want to. (Sometimes the whole day). Using this I will keep on worrying if all my deadlines for today is done. This is unnecessary clutter that keeps you from working optimally.
March 16, 2012 at 12:30 |
Nico
Nico
Mark, I must add that I am using FV and it works very well. But I worked with SF also for quite a while and this also served me well. Did you see any drawbacks in SF?
March 16, 2012 at 12:45 |
Nico
Nico
Nico, if you have tasks that can be conditionally urgent at any time, I think you will need a list of them in front of you at all times until they are done. I can see how SF's Column Two served this purpose well. For FV, I would make a checklist of these urgencies to keep next to the list, and I would make it top priority to get them all crossed off as early as possible. If you want to get lost in some other task, set a timer for a safe length of time, knowing that you will run down the checklist again when it rings.
Don't miss out on FV! Find a way to make your checklist work, and give it a try.
These urgencies seem to me like calendar appointments, except their time is not given to you in advance—there is a definite time to do them, but you do not know when it will be. FV does not replace your calendar, or remind you to keep looking at it, and I don't think it replaces these items either. However, it will help you keep your place when one of these items springs into urgency, just as it would if you had to run off to a meeting in the middle of your ladder.
Don't miss out on FV! Find a way to make your checklist work, and give it a try.
These urgencies seem to me like calendar appointments, except their time is not given to you in advance—there is a definite time to do them, but you do not know when it will be. FV does not replace your calendar, or remind you to keep looking at it, and I don't think it replaces these items either. However, it will help you keep your place when one of these items springs into urgency, just as it would if you had to run off to a meeting in the middle of your ladder.
March 16, 2012 at 13:41 |
Bernie
Bernie
Nico:
I suggest you use sticky page markers to flag the preselected tasks as Alys suggested http://www.markforster.net/fv-forum/post/1758251
I suggest you use sticky page markers to flag the preselected tasks as Alys suggested http://www.markforster.net/fv-forum/post/1758251
March 16, 2012 at 13:57 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
Bernie: Agree and good points
March 16, 2012 at 13:58 |
Nico
Nico
Sometimes I run into the situation that Nico describes. "Need input from N so I can complete Project X by end of day today!"
And I totally understand getting drawn into the other tasks on my preselected list so that I forget to follow up with N.
So I usually just put an item on my calendar, or an Outlook reminder, to remind me to check with N in an hour or two or whatever makes sense.
When the appointment or reminder appears, I add the task to the end of the list, mark it as urgent, and go take care of it immediately.
If N is still not available, I'll defer the appointment/reminder for an hour or whatever makes sense, and repeat.
And I totally understand getting drawn into the other tasks on my preselected list so that I forget to follow up with N.
So I usually just put an item on my calendar, or an Outlook reminder, to remind me to check with N in an hour or two or whatever makes sense.
When the appointment or reminder appears, I add the task to the end of the list, mark it as urgent, and go take care of it immediately.
If N is still not available, I'll defer the appointment/reminder for an hour or whatever makes sense, and repeat.
March 16, 2012 at 16:42 |
Seraphim
Seraphim
Seraphim,
<<I've been wanting to tell you, I would love to hear your story sometime of how you became financially independent (which you mentioned in the other forum a few times).>>
It's a pretty straightforward story. I co-founded a technology company in California's Silicon Valley, straight out of engineering grad school, and, after an eventual IPO, ended up with just enough to sustain my family's lifestyle without working. My third child was born at that time, so I chose to stay home while my kids were little (ages 0, 2, and 4). Markets being what they are these days, it is always an ongoing question how long the money will really last. But that question breaks well after the kids finish college, and as I am already chipping away at a new occupation, I am not worried.
Thanks for asking!
<<I've been wanting to tell you, I would love to hear your story sometime of how you became financially independent (which you mentioned in the other forum a few times).>>
It's a pretty straightforward story. I co-founded a technology company in California's Silicon Valley, straight out of engineering grad school, and, after an eventual IPO, ended up with just enough to sustain my family's lifestyle without working. My third child was born at that time, so I chose to stay home while my kids were little (ages 0, 2, and 4). Markets being what they are these days, it is always an ongoing question how long the money will really last. But that question breaks well after the kids finish college, and as I am already chipping away at a new occupation, I am not worried.
Thanks for asking!
April 18, 2012 at 18:27 |
Bernie
Bernie
In FV however, the moment you start working on a task is different from the moment you perselect it. This means that in the meantime, circumstances may have changed and the conditions to execute the task are no longer there.
In that case, I suppose we can just cross it out and move it to the end of the list? This is specified in the rules for the root task, but not for preselected tasks.