FV and FVP Forum > Task Phraseology: How to write it
Lillian's right. Seraphim too.
April 5, 2012 at 18:02 |
Alan Baljeu
Alan Baljeu
Bernie wrote:
<< I wonder what would be the effect of clearly separating these details from the keywords, either using punctuation or writing them on the next line. If they were visually separate, maybe they would not interrupt the flow of scanning. >>
If you are using Evernote or OneNote, this is easy: keep the details on the details page, and keep only the keywords in the title.
If you are using paper, one trick I've used in the past is to write the task, then put *1 with a circle around it. Then on the bottom of the page, or the opposite page, put *1 in the left margin and write out the details there.
<< I wonder what would be the effect of clearly separating these details from the keywords, either using punctuation or writing them on the next line. If they were visually separate, maybe they would not interrupt the flow of scanning. >>
If you are using Evernote or OneNote, this is easy: keep the details on the details page, and keep only the keywords in the title.
If you are using paper, one trick I've used in the past is to write the task, then put *1 with a circle around it. Then on the bottom of the page, or the opposite page, put *1 in the left margin and write out the details there.
April 5, 2012 at 18:07 |
Seraphim
Seraphim
Tiersian: LOL!!
April 5, 2012 at 18:12 |
Seraphim
Seraphim
<< shed >> etc.
We actually went through this recently and it looked something like this. Each "pass" means each time I dot the item, action it, cross out the original, and re-enter it at the end of the list in a new form.
First pass:
Shed?
Second pass:
Shed - discuss with wife
Third pass:
(Move "Shed - discuss with wife" task to my agenda page for my wife)
Fourth pass:
Shed - check prices (and immediately move "Shed - check prices" to Errands list)
("Errands" is a recurring task on my list, prompting me to scan my errands list and schedule time to do them. After scanning Errands I put a trip to Home Depot on the calendar. At the appointed time, I go to Home Depot and look at their pre-fab sheds and compare prices and options. I wonder if my son could build one of these himself easier/cheaper/more exactly what we need. Decide to discuss this option with my wife. New task is added to the list.)
Fifth pass:
Shed - can NNN build one? (Moved to agenda page for wife)
(Discussed with wife. Decide we really need something more like a garage, not a shed. Decide to look at metal pre-fab buildings since they are cheaper and more durable and we don't care whether it's pretty. Enter "Metal buildings?" on list....)
Sixth pass:
Metal building - find showcase center near work
Eight pass:
(Found center on the Web, scheduled time on calendar to visit)
Etc.
We actually went through this recently and it looked something like this. Each "pass" means each time I dot the item, action it, cross out the original, and re-enter it at the end of the list in a new form.
First pass:
Shed?
Second pass:
Shed - discuss with wife
Third pass:
(Move "Shed - discuss with wife" task to my agenda page for my wife)
Fourth pass:
Shed - check prices (and immediately move "Shed - check prices" to Errands list)
("Errands" is a recurring task on my list, prompting me to scan my errands list and schedule time to do them. After scanning Errands I put a trip to Home Depot on the calendar. At the appointed time, I go to Home Depot and look at their pre-fab sheds and compare prices and options. I wonder if my son could build one of these himself easier/cheaper/more exactly what we need. Decide to discuss this option with my wife. New task is added to the list.)
Fifth pass:
Shed - can NNN build one? (Moved to agenda page for wife)
(Discussed with wife. Decide we really need something more like a garage, not a shed. Decide to look at metal pre-fab buildings since they are cheaper and more durable and we don't care whether it's pretty. Enter "Metal buildings?" on list....)
Sixth pass:
Metal building - find showcase center near work
Eight pass:
(Found center on the Web, scheduled time on calendar to visit)
Etc.
April 5, 2012 at 18:25 |
Seraphim
Seraphim
@ tiersian
>>Aspirin for headache purchased
Aspirin for headache taken<<<
I don't know if this was to be funny or serious. but I don't want to be rude :) It's amusing to me, because I wouldnt need to put aspirin taken on my list. It stands out as silly/common sense to take it. Similar to 'bladder emptied' or "iron turned off" to be put on my list. if it wasn't meant to be funny, disregard what I said. And you'll notice it will be crossed off anyways very quickly if you indeed have a headache.
Though, I would put 'aspirin purchased'. Even better, just 'aspirin'. Either way you have to get it. Maybe your coworker has some and you don't need to purchase it. The end result is to get the aspirin somehow. not stealing of course lol.
>>Aspirin for headache purchased
Aspirin for headache taken<<<
I don't know if this was to be funny or serious. but I don't want to be rude :) It's amusing to me, because I wouldnt need to put aspirin taken on my list. It stands out as silly/common sense to take it. Similar to 'bladder emptied' or "iron turned off" to be put on my list. if it wasn't meant to be funny, disregard what I said. And you'll notice it will be crossed off anyways very quickly if you indeed have a headache.
Though, I would put 'aspirin purchased'. Even better, just 'aspirin'. Either way you have to get it. Maybe your coworker has some and you don't need to purchase it. The end result is to get the aspirin somehow. not stealing of course lol.
April 5, 2012 at 18:42 |
GMBW
GMBW
@ Miracle
>> Additionally, after years of thinking of my tasks this way, it truly IS how tasks “pop into my head.” So for it to pop into my head as “VOIP acronym understood,” and then to simplify the phrasing down to “VOIP?” and later to decode what I meant by “VOIP?” WOULD constitute additional overhead FOR ME. Which is why I will not do it that way.<<
Well put. even though the VoIP example was a bad example on my part as I simply didn't understand how it popped into Marks head in the first place. Nevertheless, I understand what you're saying and agree. Why have something pop into your head as a task, only to dilute it down into something vaguely written down, then to 'decode' what I meant (correctly/incorrectly later on? that process makes me cringe at the thought of it. If its going on a task list then why not just write it as a task. Again, I don't see/notice the overhead in writing a task as a task.
>> Additionally, after years of thinking of my tasks this way, it truly IS how tasks “pop into my head.” So for it to pop into my head as “VOIP acronym understood,” and then to simplify the phrasing down to “VOIP?” and later to decode what I meant by “VOIP?” WOULD constitute additional overhead FOR ME. Which is why I will not do it that way.<<
Well put. even though the VoIP example was a bad example on my part as I simply didn't understand how it popped into Marks head in the first place. Nevertheless, I understand what you're saying and agree. Why have something pop into your head as a task, only to dilute it down into something vaguely written down, then to 'decode' what I meant (correctly/incorrectly later on? that process makes me cringe at the thought of it. If its going on a task list then why not just write it as a task. Again, I don't see/notice the overhead in writing a task as a task.
April 5, 2012 at 18:45 |
GMBW
GMBW
I don't remember which thread it was in, but IIRC the "VOIP?" task came up in an example of being in a meeting and VOIP was used as an unknown abbreviation. The task is to figure out what VOIP means. (I assume that for whatever reason, just asking when it came up in conversation wasn't appropriate for the situation, at least for purposes of the example)
April 5, 2012 at 19:10 |
Lillian
Lillian
@seraphim
<<shed>>
I understand your iterations on building the shed. My concern with this type of phrasing is the breakdown each pass. Some of the tasks are optional and not critical to the end result...the shed built.
By starting with the end result. Then breaking it into incremental components critical to achieving the bigger result, I know that there is a reason for everything on my list.
Example:
Shed discuss with wife:
discuss what with wife? What do I need to get out of this discussion? I don't know so we may end up discussing unnecessarily stuff about shed for a long time. This is why meetings usually have a purpose at work.
Shed- check prices
if I have google handy, or a set of catalogs, where do I draw the line? what's the end result? I need one in order to move to the next thing. you may say check prices until it feels like you checked enough. ...ok so do I cross it off, or re enter it to check a bit more? On the other hand if I just wrote "lowest price from x, y and z" , or something similar I would be confident in knowing when it's done or not.
Shed- can NNN build one?
"Yes or no from NNN to build shed"
Etc. most of these questions probably wouldn't creep in on your list if you simply wrote "shed built" and broke it down asking "to get shed built, I need to get"... the necessary components would show up and you'd quickly understand what needs to get done and what doesn't.
Also, I'm not big on multiple lists and moving from list to list. I like one long list on which I can see what needs to be removed to/ changed. with Important/ urgent things popping out when I want them too.
<<shed>>
I understand your iterations on building the shed. My concern with this type of phrasing is the breakdown each pass. Some of the tasks are optional and not critical to the end result...the shed built.
By starting with the end result. Then breaking it into incremental components critical to achieving the bigger result, I know that there is a reason for everything on my list.
Example:
Shed discuss with wife:
discuss what with wife? What do I need to get out of this discussion? I don't know so we may end up discussing unnecessarily stuff about shed for a long time. This is why meetings usually have a purpose at work.
Shed- check prices
if I have google handy, or a set of catalogs, where do I draw the line? what's the end result? I need one in order to move to the next thing. you may say check prices until it feels like you checked enough. ...ok so do I cross it off, or re enter it to check a bit more? On the other hand if I just wrote "lowest price from x, y and z" , or something similar I would be confident in knowing when it's done or not.
Shed- can NNN build one?
"Yes or no from NNN to build shed"
Etc. most of these questions probably wouldn't creep in on your list if you simply wrote "shed built" and broke it down asking "to get shed built, I need to get"... the necessary components would show up and you'd quickly understand what needs to get done and what doesn't.
Also, I'm not big on multiple lists and moving from list to list. I like one long list on which I can see what needs to be removed to/ changed. with Important/ urgent things popping out when I want them too.
April 5, 2012 at 19:17 |
GMBW
GMBW
@lilian
Agreed. I didn't understand the example to begin with So it's out of context. but the idea is the same
Agreed. I didn't understand the example to begin with So it's out of context. but the idea is the same
April 5, 2012 at 19:21 |
GMBW
GMBW
GMBW said -
>Shed discuss with wife:
discuss what with wife? What do I need to get out of this discussion?
>
Agreement that a shed is needed & acceptable! :) If she says, "not until you clear out the garage!" I think the rest of the 'get shed built' tasks pretty much go out the window :) At least until the garage is cleared out, or you have a new task "convince wife shed is needed" or "{get} wife convinced shed is needed"
OTOH, if she agrees to the shed, she can help narrow down a possible starting budget, size, and location, which helps narrow down the rest of the tasks. ( Or not. )
>Shed discuss with wife:
discuss what with wife? What do I need to get out of this discussion?
>
Agreement that a shed is needed & acceptable! :) If she says, "not until you clear out the garage!" I think the rest of the 'get shed built' tasks pretty much go out the window :) At least until the garage is cleared out, or you have a new task "convince wife shed is needed" or "{get} wife convinced shed is needed"
OTOH, if she agrees to the shed, she can help narrow down a possible starting budget, size, and location, which helps narrow down the rest of the tasks. ( Or not. )
April 5, 2012 at 20:22 |
Lillian
Lillian
@ lilian.
:) of course her input is very important. I was making a point that there isn't a target to the discussion. So discuss the shed may end up as just a long discussion/argument with no purpose.
When your co worker asks for a meeting there is generally a target or purpose. It's not just discuss reports. It's probably "(get) Summary of progress" similarly discuss shed with wife is probably "yes/ not on shed" , " sweeties thoughts incorporated in plan" etc.
:) of course her input is very important. I was making a point that there isn't a target to the discussion. So discuss the shed may end up as just a long discussion/argument with no purpose.
When your co worker asks for a meeting there is generally a target or purpose. It's not just discuss reports. It's probably "(get) Summary of progress" similarly discuss shed with wife is probably "yes/ not on shed" , " sweeties thoughts incorporated in plan" etc.
April 5, 2012 at 20:36 |
GMBW
GMBW
FYI, I started a new thread called "Get ________" in case Mark closes this one due to excessive length.
April 5, 2012 at 21:00 |
ubi
ubi
Click here http://www.markforster.net/fv-forum/post/1780322 to continue the discussion.
April 5, 2012 at 21:38 |
Alan Baljeu
Alan Baljeu
GMBW:
<< Why have something pop into your head as a task, only to dilute it down into something vaguely written down, then to 'decode' what I meant (correctly/incorrectly later on? that process makes me cringe at the thought of it. If its going on a task list then why not just write it as a task. Again, I don't see/notice the overhead in writing a task as a task. >>
I may have misunderstood you but i thought you had only just developed your "Get" idea, so I don't see why things would pop into your head that way and then need decoding. In fact in the examples you have given you seem to have spent quite some time thinking about how to phrase the task - hardly popping into your head.
In any case is the fact that one has done something inefficiently for years a good reason for continuing to do it inefficiently?
"Voip?" would have been perfectly comprehensible to me as it happens, but if it had been a totally strange acronym which had no existing connotations for me, then I might well have put "Meaning of Voip?" or "Look Up Voip" or "Google Voip" or "What is Voip?" - whatever came into my head first.
<< Why have something pop into your head as a task, only to dilute it down into something vaguely written down, then to 'decode' what I meant (correctly/incorrectly later on? that process makes me cringe at the thought of it. If its going on a task list then why not just write it as a task. Again, I don't see/notice the overhead in writing a task as a task. >>
I may have misunderstood you but i thought you had only just developed your "Get" idea, so I don't see why things would pop into your head that way and then need decoding. In fact in the examples you have given you seem to have spent quite some time thinking about how to phrase the task - hardly popping into your head.
In any case is the fact that one has done something inefficiently for years a good reason for continuing to do it inefficiently?
"Voip?" would have been perfectly comprehensible to me as it happens, but if it had been a totally strange acronym which had no existing connotations for me, then I might well have put "Meaning of Voip?" or "Look Up Voip" or "Google Voip" or "What is Voip?" - whatever came into my head first.
April 6, 2012 at 3:55 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
Awhile ago I forced myself to stop. It works better. And it saves time. I still fall into lengthy descriptions sometimes, but when I catch myself it's getting easier to stop.