FV and FVP Forum > Changing order of FV list items
If you are doing 3-4 chains a day with several items on each, you should be adding quite a bit of churn to order of the list. Now if you have hundreds of items on your list, it won't be very noticeable over just a few days.
I personally like getting down to a very small number of items on a page. Since I tear out the pages when they are done, it gives a sense of accomplishment when I complete a page. (Maybe that feeling is a carry over from AF1 days when a page was a closed list.)
In any case, a single item on a page screams for action even though over the weeks (or months) it's been on the list, it has been an obvious source of resistance, procrastination, or both. Maybe not quite like the very first item that made it to a chain only because the rules said it had to, but pretty close.
I personally like getting down to a very small number of items on a page. Since I tear out the pages when they are done, it gives a sense of accomplishment when I complete a page. (Maybe that feeling is a carry over from AF1 days when a page was a closed list.)
In any case, a single item on a page screams for action even though over the weeks (or months) it's been on the list, it has been an obvious source of resistance, procrastination, or both. Maybe not quite like the very first item that made it to a chain only because the rules said it had to, but pretty close.
May 1, 2012 at 6:00 |
MartyH
MartyH
The danger with re-ordering is you lose the Magic Slot -- that first unactioned task. Many ways to deal with that, like only mixing within a month. If nothing stands out (even though I know several things should), I roll dice.
May 1, 2012 at 13:20 |
Cricket
Cricket
Cricket - I get your point, but I haven't found the top slot to be any more likely to get done than anything else. If anything, the top of the chain takes longer to get done for me. If something important/urgent/must-do, it'll 'pop' wherever it is on the list. I tend to go back & forth between AF and FV. I either pick tasks to work on based on AF standing-out rules, or I do a FV chain. No particular decision point as to when/why I do one or the other.
Marty - My FV list isn't 'months old' (yet) although some of the tasks probably are. I found the re-writing helpful to break up the groups/knots/chunks/whatever of say 5 tasks that consistently get skipped over. The 5 tasks have nothng in common with each other than they're together on the list. After a few run-throughs of the list, I seem to be jumping over the whole group - sort of like I'm treating them as one large tasks instead of 5 individual tasks. Probably something that will happen less often with time & FV practice. My list isn't a big as it sounds, and most of the done's happen at the lower half of the list - interruptions etc tend to make the top half longer to get to. I haven't found, for me, any downside really to randomly re-ordering the list. I don't know I'd do it every time I re-write the list, but getting a different perspective of the list isn't necessaily a bad thing ;) I don't track the date-added or the age of the task on the list either, I know if an item has been hanging out for "too long" and either dropping it entirely or bouncing it to a future tickler because realistically it's not getting done in the next week or 2 so why keep tripping over it on the list now?
Marty - My FV list isn't 'months old' (yet) although some of the tasks probably are. I found the re-writing helpful to break up the groups/knots/chunks/whatever of say 5 tasks that consistently get skipped over. The 5 tasks have nothng in common with each other than they're together on the list. After a few run-throughs of the list, I seem to be jumping over the whole group - sort of like I'm treating them as one large tasks instead of 5 individual tasks. Probably something that will happen less often with time & FV practice. My list isn't a big as it sounds, and most of the done's happen at the lower half of the list - interruptions etc tend to make the top half longer to get to. I haven't found, for me, any downside really to randomly re-ordering the list. I don't know I'd do it every time I re-write the list, but getting a different perspective of the list isn't necessaily a bad thing ;) I don't track the date-added or the age of the task on the list either, I know if an item has been hanging out for "too long" and either dropping it entirely or bouncing it to a future tickler because realistically it's not getting done in the next week or 2 so why keep tripping over it on the list now?
May 1, 2012 at 18:54 |
Lillian
Lillian
What I have found is that if there is an item which has been stuck for a long time, as long as it goes on your list for the day/Calendar (or FV list if you like) it doesn't really make much difference where you put it. Urgent tasks always need to get done first, and as the stuck task is on your list according to the rules, you have to do it at some point anyway.
The main point of difference is oldest tasks drift to the top. This happens anyway in most Calendar related task software programmes which appear in red on Outlook tasks for example.
The main point of difference is oldest tasks drift to the top. This happens anyway in most Calendar related task software programmes which appear in red on Outlook tasks for example.
May 1, 2012 at 22:13 |
Shak
Shak
I have learnt to write items in groups of 3. 3 items + an empty row, then 3 items + an empty row, then 3 items + etc. The rational behind the grouping is in how my mind works with groups,
* 1-3 items, they are separate items
* 4-8, this is a manageable group
* 9+, this is a group out of control
Lillian, maybe instead of rewriting items in a different order in order to see all items, you could just write your list as chunks instead of a big list.
When you rewrite the list in chunks you will get different chunks every time and your list is refreshed without changing the order of items.
Besides, it is a small pleasure to get a 3 item list finished.
* 1-3 items, they are separate items
* 4-8, this is a manageable group
* 9+, this is a group out of control
Lillian, maybe instead of rewriting items in a different order in order to see all items, you could just write your list as chunks instead of a big list.
When you rewrite the list in chunks you will get different chunks every time and your list is refreshed without changing the order of items.
Besides, it is a small pleasure to get a 3 item list finished.
May 2, 2012 at 7:48 |
pkNystrom
pkNystrom
pkNystrom,
Are you implying that you take some action on all three tasks in a chunk, if you select any one of them according to the Before-X FV criterion (or Stands-Out AF criterion)?
Are you implying that you take some action on all three tasks in a chunk, if you select any one of them according to the Before-X FV criterion (or Stands-Out AF criterion)?
May 2, 2012 at 8:23 |
ubi
ubi
An item in every row is too dense writing to my mind and it causes mental resistance. I have a habit of writing items in groups of 3 because it suits my mind.
Items in groups are independent and are treated as any item in FV.
When 2 out of 3 have been done, for some reason, the last one will be soon selected by following the FV rules.
Probably because there is a mental minireward in getting all 3 done.
Items in groups are independent and are treated as any item in FV.
When 2 out of 3 have been done, for some reason, the last one will be soon selected by following the FV rules.
Probably because there is a mental minireward in getting all 3 done.
May 2, 2012 at 9:10 |
pkNystrom
pkNystrom
The grouping is an interesting thought and I can see how it might affect things. If nothing else, it makes the list easier to scan. It also is inherently a closed list. Closed lists were key parts of Mark's earlier systems.
I can also relate to the minireward aspect. I feel that when I complete a page. I actually tear mine out of my list and scrap it and get that same rewarding feeling when its no longer hanging over my head and taking physical space in my list.
I probably won't try it since FV is working for me right out of the box.
I can also relate to the minireward aspect. I feel that when I complete a page. I actually tear mine out of my list and scrap it and get that same rewarding feeling when its no longer hanging over my head and taking physical space in my list.
I probably won't try it since FV is working for me right out of the box.
May 2, 2012 at 13:17 |
MartyH
MartyH
What I found was that some items were more likely to get dotted in the rearranged list. Something is item 10 on both the 'old' and 'new' list. On the 'old' list, it didn't get dotted because I didn't want to do it before items 1-9 (any one of the 9 are dotted to be questioned against item 10) so it has to wait at least 9 chains before it's in the number 1 slot. And possibly more since I don't always finish a chain before I start over to rebuild a chain.
In the 'new' list, it's more likely to get dotted because there are new items in the 1-9 slots. And I want to do item 10 before I do items 1, 3, 8 or 9 - so there's 4 possibilities for item 10 to get dotted before it reaches the #1 slot.
(Of course that also works the other way, that something is less likely to get dotted because of the items higher up on the list.)
In the 'new' list, it's more likely to get dotted because there are new items in the 1-9 slots. And I want to do item 10 before I do items 1, 3, 8 or 9 - so there's 4 possibilities for item 10 to get dotted before it reaches the #1 slot.
(Of course that also works the other way, that something is less likely to get dotted because of the items higher up on the list.)
May 2, 2012 at 17:09 |
Lillian
Lillian
I suspect that the issue is that you rebuild chains. I don't think I've ever done this and only a few times added to the end of an existing one. If you force yourself into completing chains, you will gradually change the way you build them and they will likely get shorter so you will be more likely to finish them in the same frame of mind as when they were built. Stop giving yourself the option of just quitting and starting over. Let the system work as designed.
Per the rules you can rebuild your chain "If you find that your preselected list is no longer relevant (e.g. if you have had a long break away from the list)." This should be a very seldom occurrence but I'm guessing that you are rebuilding because you just don't feel like doing those items that you chose. That's how they got so far back on the list to begin with. When using the system as designed, and only scrapping an existing chain when absolutely necessary, the list will reorder itself over time.
With the rebuilding, you loose the ability of the system to generate the "churn". That seems to be your objective in changing the order.
You say that you rewrite the list to consolidate it because you're concerned that you are missing something. It seems to me that it's easier not to miss something when it's one of a very few items on a page than when it's been rewritten onto a new, unfamiliar page with only undone items. Are you sure this isn't just your preferred method of procrastinating? Just a thought.
It seems that there are several parts that you've changed:
1. Not completing chains. It appears to happen quite often from your comment.
2. Switching between AF and FV processing rules.
3. Rewriting the list. That's not mentioned in the rules or tips. For me it would clearly change the dynamics, not to mention waste a bunch of time.
4. Reordering the list. Clearly not in the rules.
My recommendation is to reread the rules and embrace them both specifically and in spirit. Give it a week or two to work. It won't happen instantaneously but you should find yourself getting more things done without worry.
Per the rules you can rebuild your chain "If you find that your preselected list is no longer relevant (e.g. if you have had a long break away from the list)." This should be a very seldom occurrence but I'm guessing that you are rebuilding because you just don't feel like doing those items that you chose. That's how they got so far back on the list to begin with. When using the system as designed, and only scrapping an existing chain when absolutely necessary, the list will reorder itself over time.
With the rebuilding, you loose the ability of the system to generate the "churn". That seems to be your objective in changing the order.
You say that you rewrite the list to consolidate it because you're concerned that you are missing something. It seems to me that it's easier not to miss something when it's one of a very few items on a page than when it's been rewritten onto a new, unfamiliar page with only undone items. Are you sure this isn't just your preferred method of procrastinating? Just a thought.
It seems that there are several parts that you've changed:
1. Not completing chains. It appears to happen quite often from your comment.
2. Switching between AF and FV processing rules.
3. Rewriting the list. That's not mentioned in the rules or tips. For me it would clearly change the dynamics, not to mention waste a bunch of time.
4. Reordering the list. Clearly not in the rules.
My recommendation is to reread the rules and embrace them both specifically and in spirit. Give it a week or two to work. It won't happen instantaneously but you should find yourself getting more things done without worry.
May 3, 2012 at 13:28 |
MartyH
MartyH
I have to admit I didn't really expect any difference - same list, same "what do I want to do before x". Surprisingly, it did make a difference. The list doesn't feel 'stale' since I've stopped really seeing what's on the list because I know what's next (because I've gone over it so many times making 3-4 chains/day). And with a different order to the tasks, it changes the dynamic a bit of which tasks want to be done before others.
I don't know how the random reordering can be done electronically (I'm sure it's possible, and I'm just as sure it'll be different for each application being used), but on paper it's not difficult and it's an interesting way to get back in touch with the entire list.