FV and FVP Forum > I want to do this AFTER y is DONE
Alan - Maybe I'm missing something because I'd just enter X on my list and let it sit. I'd see it every time I scanned my list and would mark it when the time was right.
May 3, 2012 at 20:10 |
Zane
Zane
Could you put X in a tickler file (or calendar reminder) for a reasonable future date as "Is Y finished? If yes, do X. If no, move this reminder to {some future date}"
That way, you won't forget to get reminded to do X. And you don't have "do X when Y is finished' cluttering up your list in the meantime.
That way, you won't forget to get reminded to do X. And you don't have "do X when Y is finished' cluttering up your list in the meantime.
May 3, 2012 at 20:35 |
Lillian
Lillian
Zane: you're missing that it hits the front, and if I sent it to the back, it would just keep cycling around 20 times uselessly.
Lillian: That's a possibility. I'm not entirely happy with that approach though I can't articulate why.
Lillian: That's a possibility. I'm not entirely happy with that approach though I can't articulate why.
May 3, 2012 at 22:22 |
Alan Baljeu
Alan Baljeu
Alan, does Y have a 'checklist' of steps to take? Could you add "start X" as the last Y-related task?
May 3, 2012 at 22:26 |
Lillian
Lillian
Another option is to keep X on the list and build a chain off it whenever it hits the top (or whenever you otherwise select X), and only send it to the back when it comes time in the chain to actually do X.
That would have the benefit of forcing some action on Y, because you always want to do Y before X. If Y is the kind of project that has other things dependent on it, that extra nudge could be helpful.
That would have the benefit of forcing some action on Y, because you always want to do Y before X. If Y is the kind of project that has other things dependent on it, that extra nudge could be helpful.
May 4, 2012 at 0:44 |
John Graham
John Graham
Mmm ... In my EN Windows I would have task Y as ...
> Task Y complete?
> ... consider task X
Only the first line "Task Y complete?" display in EN FV list. When I execute that task, I would read the body message "consider task X" and ...
(i) do it immediately as part of task Y or
(ii) select it immediately as urgent task or
(iii) tag it, so it be likely be dotted in next preselect chain or
(iv) just enter it as new task into FV if it is not there yet.
> Task Y complete?
> ... consider task X
Only the first line "Task Y complete?" display in EN FV list. When I execute that task, I would read the body message "consider task X" and ...
(i) do it immediately as part of task Y or
(ii) select it immediately as urgent task or
(iii) tag it, so it be likely be dotted in next preselect chain or
(iv) just enter it as new task into FV if it is not there yet.
May 4, 2012 at 6:12 |
sabre23t
sabre23t
Although it is against the rules of FV, I dismiss those X-type tasks (as in AF) and have a recurring task 'review dismissed tasks'.
Btw, I also dismiss the first unactioned task on the list if it can't be done now for some valid reason (wrong time of day, precondition not met, bad weather, etc). Otherwise I would spend too much time crossing out tasks and re-entering them at the end of the list until I get to a task that is feasible now.
Btw, I also dismiss the first unactioned task on the list if it can't be done now for some valid reason (wrong time of day, precondition not met, bad weather, etc). Otherwise I would spend too much time crossing out tasks and re-entering them at the end of the list until I get to a task that is feasible now.
May 4, 2012 at 8:49 |
Rainer
Rainer
Alan, I also solved similar situations. As I continue to use FV and more "pull" approach, my opinions about such questions also change: I have a habit to form a new task immediately after previous is done. It means, when I finish Y, I write down new X task. I do not think you have to make any notes about it and fear that you will forget to make X after Y, if there is at least some relevant relation between X a Y. And if there is no relevance, why to continue with X? In the same way, you do not (have to) write down with every task, to which project it belongs - you know it by memory/intuition. You also know, to which goal it contributes, what you need to start first, what is most important...
For me, nothing was as counterproductive as rules of many productivity systems to write any tiny detail down, break everything to smallest next action (which loses its relevance and multiplies in numbers) etc. Thanks to these "rules" I forgot to trust my intuition and I wanted to control and plan everything before start, not trusting the process and changes in relevance/readiness which naturally still occur.
So I would trust my intuition. Of course, if X is part of some "official" project and it needs to be done, I would make sure to have some checklist or project list to consult from time to time.
In case I do not trust myself to remember to do X after Y, I would put some hint at the end of Y task ("Make...Y...(then X)"), or I would put it in project file, or - if time sensitive - to tickler file, as suggested above.
For me, nothing was as counterproductive as rules of many productivity systems to write any tiny detail down, break everything to smallest next action (which loses its relevance and multiplies in numbers) etc. Thanks to these "rules" I forgot to trust my intuition and I wanted to control and plan everything before start, not trusting the process and changes in relevance/readiness which naturally still occur.
So I would trust my intuition. Of course, if X is part of some "official" project and it needs to be done, I would make sure to have some checklist or project list to consult from time to time.
In case I do not trust myself to remember to do X after Y, I would put some hint at the end of Y task ("Make...Y...(then X)"), or I would put it in project file, or - if time sensitive - to tickler file, as suggested above.
May 4, 2012 at 8:58 |
Daneb
Daneb
I found time spent with other systems and rules, such as Next Action and Context, helped me develop my intuition. I don't do either religiously, but when something isn't quite right, I'll try them. After several years, I have a good feel for the type of block that can be solved with Next Action and the type that can be solved with Context.
The only reason I want to finish Y before starting X to maintain focus and momentum on Y. My X tasks are all purely-personal, so I don't worry about never getting to them.
When I started FV, I re-activated several Ys and lost momentum on the Xs. Now when I reach an X, I usually put it in a tickler file for a few months ahead.
I should probably dismiss them to a Someday/Maybe list, but this feels right for now.
The only reason I want to finish Y before starting X to maintain focus and momentum on Y. My X tasks are all purely-personal, so I don't worry about never getting to them.
When I started FV, I re-activated several Ys and lost momentum on the Xs. Now when I reach an X, I usually put it in a tickler file for a few months ahead.
I should probably dismiss them to a Someday/Maybe list, but this feels right for now.
May 4, 2012 at 15:02 |
Cricket
Cricket
I like Daneb's reply. If you already *know* that X has to be done after Y, then trust your intuition to bubble it up.
One tip I picked up from someone on this forum was to write in a task a few pages ahead of where I am now. When your active list eventually catches up to the X task, you can then consider it ready for action. If it's not the right time for it, dismiss it and enter it a few pages on from that. So if you're assured that X *will* eventually show up as a task, then you can let your mind relax about it.
I kind of like this solution for a few things that are really important and I feel that I don't want to forget, though it could be overused.
One tip I picked up from someone on this forum was to write in a task a few pages ahead of where I am now. When your active list eventually catches up to the X task, you can then consider it ready for action. If it's not the right time for it, dismiss it and enter it a few pages on from that. So if you're assured that X *will* eventually show up as a task, then you can let your mind relax about it.
I kind of like this solution for a few things that are really important and I feel that I don't want to forget, though it could be overused.
May 4, 2012 at 15:35 |
Mike Brown
Mike Brown
I'm afraid that won't work, Mike. Maybe sometimes you'll remember, but many times you won't. If you could remember everything, you wouldn't even need to write stuff down! Suppose X is a prospective client who might want your stuff when you have Y finished. So you want to call X after. But good luck remembering this, when you barely have any connection to X among hundreds of prospects. There are dozens of other scenarios not all sales-oriented, just like this.
Trusting memory to revive important and valuable things at the appropriate time is no solution for me. It will lead to the same mental burden that bugged me before starting AutoFocus, where I'm constantly thinking "Am I forgetting something?".
Trusting memory to revive important and valuable things at the appropriate time is no solution for me. It will lead to the same mental burden that bugged me before starting AutoFocus, where I'm constantly thinking "Am I forgetting something?".
May 4, 2012 at 15:41 |
Alan Baljeu
Alan Baljeu
When I really need to do something else after a task, I just add it to the same line. For instance, let's say I dotted this task:
* print files
This reminds me I need to mail some of the files as soon as possible. I just add it to the same line, irregardless if it is a task written somewhere else in my list or not:
* print files / mail file1, file4 to Mary
Then it gets done. :) Of course I try not to overuse this trick.
* print files
This reminds me I need to mail some of the files as soon as possible. I just add it to the same line, irregardless if it is a task written somewhere else in my list or not:
* print files / mail file1, file4 to Mary
Then it gets done. :) Of course I try not to overuse this trick.
May 4, 2012 at 15:49 |
Natalia
Natalia
As Daneb said:
I would put some hint at the end of Y task ("Make...Y...(then X)")
Natalie has the same idea.
With this, as you view the task to mark it out, you're immediately reminded about the next step...
I would put some hint at the end of Y task ("Make...Y...(then X)")
Natalie has the same idea.
With this, as you view the task to mark it out, you're immediately reminded about the next step...
May 4, 2012 at 16:15 |
jFenter
jFenter
Alan:
Personally I'd make an estimate of the earliest date I could expect to have finished Y and put a reminder in Outlook (or equivalent) for that date: "Y finished? Start X" or words to that effect.
If Y wasn't finished, I'd re-estimate the earliest date and re-date the reminder accordingly.
Personally I'd make an estimate of the earliest date I could expect to have finished Y and put a reminder in Outlook (or equivalent) for that date: "Y finished? Start X" or words to that effect.
If Y wasn't finished, I'd re-estimate the earliest date and re-date the reminder accordingly.
May 4, 2012 at 16:46 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
<<Where do you put X, and how do you make sure to pick it up when you throw task Y in the dun-bin?>>
The best solutions I can think of are:
1. Keep your active list filled only with independent tasks (call this something like 'In progress'). Collect all dependent tasks and place them on a separate list (call this something like 'backlog'). 'Pull' ready tasks from 'backlog' to the 'in progress' lists on a frequent basis or when in progress becomes empty. This is basically Kanban where the in progress list is worked using FV.
2. Because you preselect in one direction and do in the other direction, use the chain as a reference. Work the chain but if y should be worked on leave the chain, work on it and go back to the chain.
3. Don't worry about the y task at all. Be consistent and patient and preselect it the next round if it is doable.
Although it seems the hardest to do, I tend to just do 3. If you scan frequently, you shouldn't forget that y was there.
Also, as Natalia pointed out, you can just append it to x. (i.e print files/mail file). But instead, maybe just look at the big picture something like a 'z' task which incorporates x's and y's ( i.e. z task being to get the files submitted). When you see that z task do what you can on it ...which would be x (print the files). Select 'z' in another chain and you can now do y (mail the files). Sorry for the complex description.
The best solutions I can think of are:
1. Keep your active list filled only with independent tasks (call this something like 'In progress'). Collect all dependent tasks and place them on a separate list (call this something like 'backlog'). 'Pull' ready tasks from 'backlog' to the 'in progress' lists on a frequent basis or when in progress becomes empty. This is basically Kanban where the in progress list is worked using FV.
2. Because you preselect in one direction and do in the other direction, use the chain as a reference. Work the chain but if y should be worked on leave the chain, work on it and go back to the chain.
3. Don't worry about the y task at all. Be consistent and patient and preselect it the next round if it is doable.
Although it seems the hardest to do, I tend to just do 3. If you scan frequently, you shouldn't forget that y was there.
Also, as Natalia pointed out, you can just append it to x. (i.e print files/mail file). But instead, maybe just look at the big picture something like a 'z' task which incorporates x's and y's ( i.e. z task being to get the files submitted). When you see that z task do what you can on it ...which would be x (print the files). Select 'z' in another chain and you can now do y (mail the files). Sorry for the complex description.
May 4, 2012 at 17:02 |
GMBW
GMBW
Alan - I saw in another post that you had "20 pages varying from 1 to 40 tasks each. I'd guess 120."
So if you add an entry to the end of your list, "call Zane after filesync beta complete", won't it sit there for a week or two or three before it becomes the first task on your list? At that time if the beta's not complete you'd cross through it, move it to the end, and it would either get done or cycle its way to the top again.
If this is correct, what is your concern? That it's inefficient to rewrite the item over and over?
So if you add an entry to the end of your list, "call Zane after filesync beta complete", won't it sit there for a week or two or three before it becomes the first task on your list? At that time if the beta's not complete you'd cross through it, move it to the end, and it would either get done or cycle its way to the top again.
If this is correct, what is your concern? That it's inefficient to rewrite the item over and over?
May 4, 2012 at 17:04 |
Zane
Zane
Zane: Rewriting takes only a moment. The concern is that are MANY such items and it's inefficient to be constantly reviewing these just to ignore them, weeks on end.
May 4, 2012 at 18:24 |
Alan Baljeu
Alan Baljeu
When I see an item on my list that CAN'T be actioned now (for whatever reason), I find it adds clutter to the list, and it's mentally draining to ignore it.
So I put those items in the tickler -- exactly as Mark described above, except I don't use Outlook reminders for this. I use a OneNote notebook with sections for each week of the year, and every Sunday or Monday I move the tasks whose time has arrived to the end of my FV list.
So, I am agreeing with Mark and Lillian. This works fine for me.
So I put those items in the tickler -- exactly as Mark described above, except I don't use Outlook reminders for this. I use a OneNote notebook with sections for each week of the year, and every Sunday or Monday I move the tasks whose time has arrived to the end of my FV list.
So, I am agreeing with Mark and Lillian. This works fine for me.
May 4, 2012 at 19:40 |
Seraphim
Seraphim
Ahhh. Of course. There are many tasks in the queue. (I may be slow, but I'm not fast.)
I use an iPhone app, Due, for reminders. It's my tickler. I'm afraid I have no clever solution for you. (Although Due does this job extremely well.)
http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/due/id390017969
I use an iPhone app, Due, for reminders. It's my tickler. I'm afraid I have no clever solution for you. (Although Due does this job extremely well.)
http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/due/id390017969
May 4, 2012 at 21:36 |
Zane
Zane
X is not part of a project with Y. It's a different project that needs Y accomplished, or is not relevant until Y is accomplished.
Where do you put X, and how do you make sure to pick it up when you throw task Y in the dun-bin?