FV and FVP Forum > FV and Projects
Brett,
Since you prefer pen-and-paper for your action items, my method likely won't be helpful to you, but I'll interject it anyway for the sake of discussion.
I also have a lot of projects going at once (no way around it; it's the nature of the job). The way my brain works, I need to be able to zero in on just the tasks for a certain project sometimes, or step back and get the well-ordered big-picture of all my projects other times. (Usually need to do both these things a couple times a day.
I've found FV wonderful for choosing tasks -- but the above two caveats mean just having one big list of tasks in a notebook isn't going to work for me.
I've discovered that I love, love, love Toodledo. I use the "start dates" to simulate list order. I have it set to default to setting the "Start Date" to "Today" on new tasks. Whenever I work on a task created on a previous day but don't finish it, I change the start-date to "today" to move it to the end of the list.
To choose tasks FV style, I order the list by start-date (Ascending), and "star" each task in the chain. To work on the FV list, I look at the view that shows me only the starred tasks, and order it by start-date (Descending).
Meanwhile, I can have each task also assigned to a "Folder" (aka project), and use the "Folder" view to either see all of them ordered by project, or to zero in on a specific project.
I can also use the "Status" to prevent items that aren't currently actionable to show up in my pick-my-FV-tasks lists.
The ways in which I use "context" and "tags" aren't relevant to the discussion. But one thing I love about my FV-via-Toodledo system is: FV protects me from my tendency to over-engineer. No matter how badly I over-engineer the Toodledo system as I tweak it, I always have the "all tasks, flat, ordered by start date, to choose an FV chain from" to go back to. I can turn my organization system into a jumbled mess -- and it doesn't matter. I can organize it in a way that helps me see the big picture -- without getting stuck not knowing where to start because there's so much to do.
Obviously, this isn't going to be the answer for someone who wants a pen-and-paper system. But for anyone reading this who is happy using an electronic system, I highly recommend it.
Since you prefer pen-and-paper for your action items, my method likely won't be helpful to you, but I'll interject it anyway for the sake of discussion.
I also have a lot of projects going at once (no way around it; it's the nature of the job). The way my brain works, I need to be able to zero in on just the tasks for a certain project sometimes, or step back and get the well-ordered big-picture of all my projects other times. (Usually need to do both these things a couple times a day.
I've found FV wonderful for choosing tasks -- but the above two caveats mean just having one big list of tasks in a notebook isn't going to work for me.
I've discovered that I love, love, love Toodledo. I use the "start dates" to simulate list order. I have it set to default to setting the "Start Date" to "Today" on new tasks. Whenever I work on a task created on a previous day but don't finish it, I change the start-date to "today" to move it to the end of the list.
To choose tasks FV style, I order the list by start-date (Ascending), and "star" each task in the chain. To work on the FV list, I look at the view that shows me only the starred tasks, and order it by start-date (Descending).
Meanwhile, I can have each task also assigned to a "Folder" (aka project), and use the "Folder" view to either see all of them ordered by project, or to zero in on a specific project.
I can also use the "Status" to prevent items that aren't currently actionable to show up in my pick-my-FV-tasks lists.
The ways in which I use "context" and "tags" aren't relevant to the discussion. But one thing I love about my FV-via-Toodledo system is: FV protects me from my tendency to over-engineer. No matter how badly I over-engineer the Toodledo system as I tweak it, I always have the "all tasks, flat, ordered by start date, to choose an FV chain from" to go back to. I can turn my organization system into a jumbled mess -- and it doesn't matter. I can organize it in a way that helps me see the big picture -- without getting stuck not knowing where to start because there's so much to do.
Obviously, this isn't going to be the answer for someone who wants a pen-and-paper system. But for anyone reading this who is happy using an electronic system, I highly recommend it.
May 13, 2012 at 3:52 |
LindaJeanne
thanks for the post LindaJeanne. I used TD for a long time and it was great.
This is a nice solution if one were using it.
Thanks for sharing.
brett
This is a nice solution if one were using it.
Thanks for sharing.
brett
May 13, 2012 at 5:06 |
brettypooh
Brettypooh, these are my ideas: I think you may think in too much GTD way. I know it from my experience, I introjected GTD notion that everything above 1 simple task is a project, that project should be in project list, that you should define "next task" etc. As I experimented with time management for years, my way of thinking changed and I am now much more happy with more intuitive approach (which - no coincidence - I had BEFORE I learnt about GTD).
So I would advise you to define only projects which are real (big) projects in project list. Put everything else (what you want to do in next 7-14 days) in FV. Do not define necessarily "next tasks" - define them when you find them useful, but not everywhere. "Anti-next task" thinking will not only make your FV list shorter, but it many cases it will paradoxically bring more clarity to what to do and you will be able to act more intuitively. E.g. you can have only "Work on project X", or "Do something with case Y" or only "Prepare for the trip to Z" task. Do not define everything in small tasks. Do what is important/urgent/what you are ready to do (what is at top of your mind regarding the bigger task) within these bigger tasks.
Put all your future tasks with certain start date into tickler file/calendar. Put general future tasks (which will be not started in 7-14 days but which you want to be sure you will do) into your project files - see below. Also, trust your intuition - you do not have (and are not able to) write all your next tasks at the beginning of the project. Why to do so? When you will be at the phase when this task is important, it will appear in your mind. Just use some general checklists if needed.
With bigger projects or when you want to be sure that you do not omit any task, write down all your ideas, someday-maybe tasks, future tasks, alternatives...into your project file (I use txt file for all my projects, but it can be done on paper easily). Consult them not in any strict manner, but as you feel like - there are projects that you will check every day, there are projects which you will never check as you will know every time what to do next. You can have "review project X, Y and Z project file" as your FV task.
The only rule which you should conform to is to be sure that you define new task/next task/rewrite unfinished task immediately after you finish doing this task and cross it out from FV list - (re)write the (new/old) task immediately at the bottom of FV list (you can consult project files if you do not know what to do next). Thus you will be sure that the most important project tasks are still in FV - of course, you can back-up it with your weekly review á la GTD if you consider it useful for your way of working...
We have discussed projects in FV many times in the forum in last months, look also into this discussions for tips of other people.
So I would advise you to define only projects which are real (big) projects in project list. Put everything else (what you want to do in next 7-14 days) in FV. Do not define necessarily "next tasks" - define them when you find them useful, but not everywhere. "Anti-next task" thinking will not only make your FV list shorter, but it many cases it will paradoxically bring more clarity to what to do and you will be able to act more intuitively. E.g. you can have only "Work on project X", or "Do something with case Y" or only "Prepare for the trip to Z" task. Do not define everything in small tasks. Do what is important/urgent/what you are ready to do (what is at top of your mind regarding the bigger task) within these bigger tasks.
Put all your future tasks with certain start date into tickler file/calendar. Put general future tasks (which will be not started in 7-14 days but which you want to be sure you will do) into your project files - see below. Also, trust your intuition - you do not have (and are not able to) write all your next tasks at the beginning of the project. Why to do so? When you will be at the phase when this task is important, it will appear in your mind. Just use some general checklists if needed.
With bigger projects or when you want to be sure that you do not omit any task, write down all your ideas, someday-maybe tasks, future tasks, alternatives...into your project file (I use txt file for all my projects, but it can be done on paper easily). Consult them not in any strict manner, but as you feel like - there are projects that you will check every day, there are projects which you will never check as you will know every time what to do next. You can have "review project X, Y and Z project file" as your FV task.
The only rule which you should conform to is to be sure that you define new task/next task/rewrite unfinished task immediately after you finish doing this task and cross it out from FV list - (re)write the (new/old) task immediately at the bottom of FV list (you can consult project files if you do not know what to do next). Thus you will be sure that the most important project tasks are still in FV - of course, you can back-up it with your weekly review á la GTD if you consider it useful for your way of working...
We have discussed projects in FV many times in the forum in last months, look also into this discussions for tips of other people.
May 13, 2012 at 12:39 |
Daneb
Daneb
You know what, you are completely right. I had in fact been operating under the gtd definition of project and it wasn't until you said that that I realized it.
I think that was the breakthrough I needed to solve my issue. I already use Evernote for my reference material for all "projects" and could easily have a planning note for the real projects and then just put review project x and go straight to Evernote to review my notes.
Thanks a bunch for making me rethink a huge underlying assumption to my "problem".
Brett
You know what, you are completely right. I had in fact been operating under the gtd definition of project and it wasn't until you said that that I realized it.
I think that was the breakthrough I needed to solve my issue. I already use Evernote for my reference material for all "projects" and could easily have a planning note for the real projects and then just put review project x and go straight to Evernote to review my notes.
Thanks a bunch for making me rethink a huge underlying assumption to my "problem".
Brett
May 13, 2012 at 16:15 |
brettypooh
Brett, I am glad I could help. I was under influence of GTD theory similarly for a long time, being unaware of it. It took me pretty long until I found out. What helped me was a question: What did I do differently when I was successful with my projects or when I had very productive times in my history (long before I found GTD and similar methodologies)? And this was one of the answers...
May 13, 2012 at 21:59 |
Daneb
hi daneb,
Well, I've been giving a lot of thought to your posts and the more I think about it the more right I believe you are. I've been working under this assumption for SO long regarding projects that I didn't see the forest through the trees.
I looked through all of my 45 current 'projects' and only 7 of them really needed special attention with task planning for future tasks.
I created notes in evernote for each one, tagged with it the project name and then tagged it with 'task planning' tag. Now all I have to do is to click the task planning tag and I have the 7 projects I need to review future tasks for. SO much simpler than forcing myself to have future tasks planned for all 45. The rest of the 'projects' are routine stuff I can plan step by step as I finish the previous task on my list.
thanks again for getting me to think a little differently.
Brett
Well, I've been giving a lot of thought to your posts and the more I think about it the more right I believe you are. I've been working under this assumption for SO long regarding projects that I didn't see the forest through the trees.
I looked through all of my 45 current 'projects' and only 7 of them really needed special attention with task planning for future tasks.
I created notes in evernote for each one, tagged with it the project name and then tagged it with 'task planning' tag. Now all I have to do is to click the task planning tag and I have the 7 projects I need to review future tasks for. SO much simpler than forcing myself to have future tasks planned for all 45. The rest of the 'projects' are routine stuff I can plan step by step as I finish the previous task on my list.
thanks again for getting me to think a little differently.
Brett
May 14, 2012 at 2:55 |
brettypooh
LindaJeanne,
Do you mind answering a couple of questions about your toodledo usage?
First, are you using it via their website on your PC browser, or are you using the iOS app on your iPhone ? You can ignore the first question if you're using the web-based version.
I'm giving the iOS app a try on my mobile (ipod touch), and was wondering what your Start Page is set at, in your Toodledo Settings.. is it on "All Tasks" ?
Also, when you say:
"To work on the FV list, I look at the view that shows me only the starred tasks, "
Are there a lot of steps in toodledo to switch to that view?
Do you mind answering a couple of questions about your toodledo usage?
First, are you using it via their website on your PC browser, or are you using the iOS app on your iPhone ? You can ignore the first question if you're using the web-based version.
I'm giving the iOS app a try on my mobile (ipod touch), and was wondering what your Start Page is set at, in your Toodledo Settings.. is it on "All Tasks" ?
Also, when you say:
"To work on the FV list, I look at the view that shows me only the starred tasks, "
Are there a lot of steps in toodledo to switch to that view?
May 17, 2012 at 1:07 |
Steve
Oh., wait, I got the second question answered by just playing around. If I keep going back pages, I see the list of Views: All Tasks, Hotlist, Starred, Folderss etc..
This is good, and very easy.
I like how you say that you can always return to just the simple All Tasks view which always return you to immediately the simplicity of FV's purpose when you feel like there's too much tinkering.
This is good, and very easy.
I like how you say that you can always return to just the simple All Tasks view which always return you to immediately the simplicity of FV's purpose when you feel like there's too much tinkering.
May 17, 2012 at 1:18 |
Steve
This is probably going to annoy those who are email-subbed to this thread, but just wanted to say thank you to LindaJeanne for sharing how you use Toodledo for FV. This is working out really well.
May 17, 2012 at 23:16 |
Steve
Well, I've waited to post for a bit until I was really able to give FV a solid go. I went back to GTD for a bit but found the exact problem I did when I first did it for 3 years: I floundered on many tasks that I didn't want to do in favor of easy ones that I did want to do. FV really is the first system that really forces me to think critically about urgency and importance in a systematic and disciplined way.
As I've explained before, I work on anywhere between 40-70 projects at a time. I do workplace investigations, EEOC cases, etc as well as other HR projects for a corporation. With that many projects, I have to work pretty hard to stay on top of them at any given time. Some, as you can guess, are more labor intensive, complex, and urgent.
With that said, I'm working through just how to keep track of my projects and/or incorporate into FV. My current way of dealing with this is to have project pages with task planning on it and then to move the tasks to FV when they can be actioned.
The problem with this approach is that it's simply overwhelming to go back to these 40-70 projects on a regular basis, determine if an item is actionable, move it to my FV list, action it, and then cross it out on my other list. The last item here of crossing off finished tasks isn't so bad as I'm still in the habit of a weekly review where I look over all open projects and update them. However, I can't usually wait a week to pull out 'future' tasks and action them.
My concern with placing all tasks into FV, both future and currently actionable, is that I fear two things: a. my list will become unsustainably large and b. if a future actionable item is the first unactioned, I'll essentially break the FV algorithm by having to skip that task in favor of a currently actionable one.
I've seen a few posts on project management, but can anyone share how they have cleared the above hurdles with a similar workload? I'm very open to suggestions.
I will say that I do NOT like to have my action items electronically. I use a Levenger circa letter sized notebook and intend to retain that. I do use Evernote for all of my reference material, voice notes, scanned documents, etc.
Thanks and have a good one,
Brett