FV and FVP Forum > What if I don't pick up the list?
What helps me with tasks that I tend to put off:
- write about them, just type away;
- tiny habits / next actions / whatever you call it: don't plan to make a Final Version ladder, just plan to dot the first item in your list (same as: don't plan to run 3 miles, just plan to get your training gear on); when you focus on the entire task, you will think of all kinds of trouble you might run into, so what helps me is just focussing on the very next action;
good luck
- write about them, just type away;
- tiny habits / next actions / whatever you call it: don't plan to make a Final Version ladder, just plan to dot the first item in your list (same as: don't plan to run 3 miles, just plan to get your training gear on); when you focus on the entire task, you will think of all kinds of trouble you might run into, so what helps me is just focussing on the very next action;
good luck
May 28, 2012 at 8:47 |
Thorin
Thorin
Christian,
It also helps to keep the list short. Remember, you can always declare a backlog with ANY system. Just remember to work it.
It also helps to keep the list short. Remember, you can always declare a backlog with ANY system. Just remember to work it.
May 28, 2012 at 9:46 |
Will
Will
Christianm:
To get rid of procrastination really focus on motivating yourself.
-think about the things you want to achieve rather than the things you want to do.
ex. Think about getting a peak physique rather than doing a workout.
Ex2. think about getting your pay cheque rather than doing the work.
Always think end result/ results/ rewards/trophies. you'll procrastinate a lot less if you are fully aware of why you're doing it.
Dealing with clutter, requires organization. there are many ways to do this and everyone is different. I have found that af is very effective but very disorganized. Also, it handles clutter quite well. Just throw anything at it and you'll be able to process, do and archive easily. But you must stick with it!
To avoid abandoning any system , I'd advise to organize your time rather than the list. I organize my time, with a time map on a calendar. these are essentially routine blocks of time that balance everything that comes at you in life.
(google Julie Morgenstern time mapping )
Also, a great help to avoid procrastination is to just rush things that you avoid. many would say this isn't great advice but I know from experience that rushing things tends to auto-prioritize for you and save time. YMMV
Hope this helps.
To get rid of procrastination really focus on motivating yourself.
-think about the things you want to achieve rather than the things you want to do.
ex. Think about getting a peak physique rather than doing a workout.
Ex2. think about getting your pay cheque rather than doing the work.
Always think end result/ results/ rewards/trophies. you'll procrastinate a lot less if you are fully aware of why you're doing it.
Dealing with clutter, requires organization. there are many ways to do this and everyone is different. I have found that af is very effective but very disorganized. Also, it handles clutter quite well. Just throw anything at it and you'll be able to process, do and archive easily. But you must stick with it!
To avoid abandoning any system , I'd advise to organize your time rather than the list. I organize my time, with a time map on a calendar. these are essentially routine blocks of time that balance everything that comes at you in life.
(google Julie Morgenstern time mapping )
Also, a great help to avoid procrastination is to just rush things that you avoid. many would say this isn't great advice but I know from experience that rushing things tends to auto-prioritize for you and save time. YMMV
Hope this helps.
May 28, 2012 at 12:18 |
GMBW
GMBW
Thank you for your advice.
Time mapping does look interesting. I'll look into it.
Keep the advice coming ;)
- Christian
Time mapping does look interesting. I'll look into it.
Keep the advice coming ;)
- Christian
May 28, 2012 at 16:01 |
christianm
christianm
As Thorin mentioned, I recommend a Tiny Habit:
"After I finish breakfast, I will open my FV notebook."
http://www.tinyhabits.com/
"After I finish breakfast, I will open my FV notebook."
http://www.tinyhabits.com/
May 28, 2012 at 17:53 |
Bernie
Bernie
An accountability partner. To a degree, that's why Dr. David Schnarch call marriage a "people growing machine".
On the GTD forum, I found someone who was looking for an accountability partner. Every morning we scan/send our daily plan to each other, and check-in to see how things are going. I even implemented a fine ($10) for updates that are sent past 10PM (in an attempt to implement a shutdown ritual at night).
Barbara Sher, Stephen Covey, Stewart Friedman (Wharton) all suggest working with a coach or peer to stick to your plans and grow beyond your comfort zones.
On the GTD forum, I found someone who was looking for an accountability partner. Every morning we scan/send our daily plan to each other, and check-in to see how things are going. I even implemented a fine ($10) for updates that are sent past 10PM (in an attempt to implement a shutdown ritual at night).
Barbara Sher, Stephen Covey, Stewart Friedman (Wharton) all suggest working with a coach or peer to stick to your plans and grow beyond your comfort zones.
May 30, 2012 at 14:09 |
avrum
avrum
> Hi
> I've been following Mark Forster's work for a few years. I did like the approach of Do It
> Tomorrow, and used some of the suggestions in it, until my old habit of procrastinating
> and doing stuff at the last minute took over again ...
Hi Christian,
it's quite interesting that exactly on my birthday you are writing a comment that exactly describes ME and MY habit!
For many years I'm trying to get rid of that bad behaviour but didn't succeed at all.
Maybe an accountability partner is a good idea – I don't know.
- Theo
> I've been following Mark Forster's work for a few years. I did like the approach of Do It
> Tomorrow, and used some of the suggestions in it, until my old habit of procrastinating
> and doing stuff at the last minute took over again ...
Hi Christian,
it's quite interesting that exactly on my birthday you are writing a comment that exactly describes ME and MY habit!
For many years I'm trying to get rid of that bad behaviour but didn't succeed at all.
Maybe an accountability partner is a good idea – I don't know.
- Theo
May 30, 2012 at 19:28 |
Theo
Theo
@ GMBW
----------
To avoid abandoning any system , I'd advise to organize your time rather than the list. I organize my time, with a time map on a calendar. these are essentially routine blocks of time that balance everything that comes at you in life.
(google Julie Morgenstern time mapping )
...
Hope this helps.
----------
it did, you described many of my issues, solution spot on, thank you!
re: Julie Morgenstern time mapping ( googled it, here it is )
part way down the page "Taking Control of Your Days with a Time Map"
http://www.juliemorgenstern.com/newsletter/2006/ezine0506.htm
----------
To avoid abandoning any system , I'd advise to organize your time rather than the list. I organize my time, with a time map on a calendar. these are essentially routine blocks of time that balance everything that comes at you in life.
(google Julie Morgenstern time mapping )
...
Hope this helps.
----------
it did, you described many of my issues, solution spot on, thank you!
re: Julie Morgenstern time mapping ( googled it, here it is )
part way down the page "Taking Control of Your Days with a Time Map"
http://www.juliemorgenstern.com/newsletter/2006/ezine0506.htm
May 30, 2012 at 21:57 |
matthewS
matthewS
@matthewS
Pretty neat huh? The cool thing about time maps is that as long as that you allocate proportional amounts of times to reflect your priorities and goals, you can feel a lot less anxiety or rush bouncing about from task to task.
Also, I find that my week tends to be more focused, balanced and under control.
Pretty neat huh? The cool thing about time maps is that as long as that you allocate proportional amounts of times to reflect your priorities and goals, you can feel a lot less anxiety or rush bouncing about from task to task.
Also, I find that my week tends to be more focused, balanced and under control.
May 30, 2012 at 22:24 |
GMBW
GMBW
Thanks again for some interesting observations and advice.
@Thorin and Bernie: I've signed up to Tiny Habits, and will put "After I finish breakfast, I will open my FV notebook." as one of these habits. Good idea, now will it work with me, an uncrowned king of resistance and procrastination!?
@Theo: I feel for you (happy birthday, btw). It gets frustrating, but as long as we've recognized the problem I suppose that's a tiny step towards more control of what we want to do and need to do :)
@avrum: Accountability partner, huh. That's certainly another interesting idea. My initial hunch upon reading about this was "sounds like too much commitment", but upon reflection I suppose that may well be exactly what I need. Commitment. Thanks!
I'll keep you posted, whether you want to or not ;)
@Thorin and Bernie: I've signed up to Tiny Habits, and will put "After I finish breakfast, I will open my FV notebook." as one of these habits. Good idea, now will it work with me, an uncrowned king of resistance and procrastination!?
@Theo: I feel for you (happy birthday, btw). It gets frustrating, but as long as we've recognized the problem I suppose that's a tiny step towards more control of what we want to do and need to do :)
@avrum: Accountability partner, huh. That's certainly another interesting idea. My initial hunch upon reading about this was "sounds like too much commitment", but upon reflection I suppose that may well be exactly what I need. Commitment. Thanks!
I'll keep you posted, whether you want to or not ;)
May 31, 2012 at 20:26 |
christianm
christianm
What I recently started doing is using the pomodoro technique to apply the Little and Often principle; I use an electronic tea timer to set a timebox for each marked task in the ladder: 5 minutes for not so important tasks and 10 or 15 minutes for important tasks (so I will spend more time on important stuff).
This way I feel less resistance in marking and executing tasks, and I feel I'm also more productive and more focussed when I give myself only a small amount of time to accomplish something; when a task is not accomplished in 5 minutes however, I'll just add it at the end of the list, just as FV prescribes.
So basically, I'm just doing FV, with the addition of a tea timer.
I have tried time mapping before, but it doesn't seem to work for me. Working in short bursts feels much more focussed and flexible, but just try both and see what you prefer.
This way I feel less resistance in marking and executing tasks, and I feel I'm also more productive and more focussed when I give myself only a small amount of time to accomplish something; when a task is not accomplished in 5 minutes however, I'll just add it at the end of the list, just as FV prescribes.
So basically, I'm just doing FV, with the addition of a tea timer.
I have tried time mapping before, but it doesn't seem to work for me. Working in short bursts feels much more focussed and flexible, but just try both and see what you prefer.
June 1, 2012 at 17:17 |
Thorin
Thorin
Julie Morgenstern's article tells what I've been doing for a year now, but I see now i nneed to do time mapping more thoroughly. Draw a chart for your standard time allocation each day. Example 8 hrs at work. Subdivide as desired. Assign meetings, apptments, project blocks, relaxation, exercise where you want them. assign a Mark Forster system to one or more large chunks of time. And work from that. For FV, be aware when you are scheduled to quit and adjust your working/selecting accordingly.
Having this time map can also be a key to defining hooks to use in the 3 habits tool.
Having this time map can also be a key to defining hooks to use in the 3 habits tool.
June 1, 2012 at 20:12 |
Alan Baljeu
Alan Baljeu
@ Thorin : Have you read the thread http://www.markforster.net/fv-forum/post/1842252 about Decremental Time Box ( ing ) ?
I used it the second day today and it starts to be fun, even though I still have to get used to the decreasing "short" time bursts ;) It does support the "little and often" principle in a very excellent way.
GMBW suggested to use the number of preselected items as the starting point in the Decremental Time Box : nice idea to allocate more time to the important / urgent / priority tasks!
I, however, am more inclined to use this technique mostly, but not exclusively, for the ( big ) projects I have committed to. The scary amount of hours you want to work on a project in the row does "melt" away :)
I used it the second day today and it starts to be fun, even though I still have to get used to the decreasing "short" time bursts ;) It does support the "little and often" principle in a very excellent way.
GMBW suggested to use the number of preselected items as the starting point in the Decremental Time Box : nice idea to allocate more time to the important / urgent / priority tasks!
I, however, am more inclined to use this technique mostly, but not exclusively, for the ( big ) projects I have committed to. The scary amount of hours you want to work on a project in the row does "melt" away :)
June 1, 2012 at 23:30 |
Stefano F. Rausch
Stefano F. Rausch
@Stefano
> Have you read the thread http://www.markforster.net/fv-forum/post/1842252 about Decremental Time Box ( ing ) ?
Yes, I have, but I don't want my time to be governed by a mathematical trick, I want to decide for myself how much time to spend on what. But I haven't tried the decremental time box myself, and if it works for other people, that's fine.
>The scary amount of hours you want to work on a project in the row does "melt" away :)
Exactly, and I think that if you spent 6 x 10 minutes on a project, you're much more effective than when spending 1 x 60 minutes.
> Have you read the thread http://www.markforster.net/fv-forum/post/1842252 about Decremental Time Box ( ing ) ?
Yes, I have, but I don't want my time to be governed by a mathematical trick, I want to decide for myself how much time to spend on what. But I haven't tried the decremental time box myself, and if it works for other people, that's fine.
>The scary amount of hours you want to work on a project in the row does "melt" away :)
Exactly, and I think that if you spent 6 x 10 minutes on a project, you're much more effective than when spending 1 x 60 minutes.
June 2, 2012 at 8:10 |
Thorin
Thorin
@ Thorin : >> Exactly, and I think that if you spent 6 x 10 minutes on a project, you're much more effective than when spending 1 x 60 minutes. <<
That is exactly what the Decremental Time Box is trying to achieve, only in a different way. Say for example that you decide to work on a task / project for 3 / 4 of an hour - "till the next hard fact hits your boat.
You do look up the list and see that you start with a 09 minutes session. Yes, only 09 minutes. After that you either want to have a break or you just continue with the next session of 08 minutes … down to 01 minute. Little and often in pure form ? The sum of all the intensive / focused minutes you have worked on the task / project add up to 0.75 hours!
>> Yes, I have, but I don't want my time to be governed by a mathematical trick, I want to decide for myself how much time to spend on what. But I haven't tried the decremental time box myself, and if it works for other people, that's fine. <<
No mathematical trick is at work here. Just plain old summing up. And yes, you're deciding how much time you want to spend for a specific task / project. It only helps you in breaking down the planned time frame into nice and little chunks of "work" :)
Again, it might not be everyone's cup of tea!
That is exactly what the Decremental Time Box is trying to achieve, only in a different way. Say for example that you decide to work on a task / project for 3 / 4 of an hour - "till the next hard fact hits your boat.
You do look up the list and see that you start with a 09 minutes session. Yes, only 09 minutes. After that you either want to have a break or you just continue with the next session of 08 minutes … down to 01 minute. Little and often in pure form ? The sum of all the intensive / focused minutes you have worked on the task / project add up to 0.75 hours!
>> Yes, I have, but I don't want my time to be governed by a mathematical trick, I want to decide for myself how much time to spend on what. But I haven't tried the decremental time box myself, and if it works for other people, that's fine. <<
No mathematical trick is at work here. Just plain old summing up. And yes, you're deciding how much time you want to spend for a specific task / project. It only helps you in breaking down the planned time frame into nice and little chunks of "work" :)
Again, it might not be everyone's cup of tea!
June 2, 2012 at 22:03 |
Stefano F. Rausch
Stefano F. Rausch
@Stefano
OK, so you'll work those 9, 8, 7 ... minutes blocks on just one project/task. I understand now.
What I do is make a ladder, e.g. select tasks A, B and C, and then spend 5 minutes on C, 10 on B (because that's an important one) and another 5 minutes on A. Then I'll create a new ladder and so on. I'm using Tea Timer 1.5.3 (or a physical timer when not behind the computer) to warn me when the 5/10 minutes are over.
This way I'm applying the Little & Often principle, while still being able to spend more time on important tasks. The addition of a timer motivates me to stick to FV.
If a project/task is urgent, and you have to work just on that project, the decremental time box seems like a good tool to slice it up.
OK, so you'll work those 9, 8, 7 ... minutes blocks on just one project/task. I understand now.
What I do is make a ladder, e.g. select tasks A, B and C, and then spend 5 minutes on C, 10 on B (because that's an important one) and another 5 minutes on A. Then I'll create a new ladder and so on. I'm using Tea Timer 1.5.3 (or a physical timer when not behind the computer) to warn me when the 5/10 minutes are over.
This way I'm applying the Little & Often principle, while still being able to spend more time on important tasks. The addition of a timer motivates me to stick to FV.
If a project/task is urgent, and you have to work just on that project, the decremental time box seems like a good tool to slice it up.
June 3, 2012 at 9:57 |
Thorin
Thorin
@ Thorin : Exactly! The ( nearly ) perfect tool for project-related work from a little-and-often / time point of view combined with the good advise to have breaks in between time bursts to be even more productive.
After preselecting the next FV chain to work on you can nevertheless be very flexible regarding "special" tasks. E.g. and following your last example you have selected 3 tasks. This is according to the original idea of the Decremental Time Box ( DTB ) a work time of 0.10, i.e. 6 minutes: ( 1 ) 03 minutes ( 2 ) 2 minutes and ( 3 ) 1 minute. I leave the pondering to you - "work as long on the task as you feel is right / want to " should be applied here instead ;)
Now you can introduce a variant: you have decided to work for 05 minutes on task C, 10 minutes on task B and again 05 minutes on task A. If you want to use the DTB as a guide how to split these single tasks' work times in even tinier time chunks, this could be applied as follows - just an example:
( 1 ) task C 05 minutes translate to 03 on the scale adding up to 06 minutes : 6 is nearer to 3 ;)
( 2 ) task B 10 minutes translate to 04 on the scale adding up to exactly 10 minutes :)
( 3 ) task A 05 works as task C.
The only question in this respect is : is this not too much of a burden than just following your way of working off the time allocated ? For your example I would say yes - even though the one or other would like to nevertheless apply the slicing.
A second variant would be : use DTB only for the "one" task you feel you have to work on "longer", but in a time controlled way and work off all the other, wherever they are in the preselected list, according to your gut feeling, i.e. as long as you want to.
What I am currently doing is : ( 1 ) in general not to apply DTB on a preselected FV chain as a whole. I do apply DTB for a single task though, depending on how much ( controlled ) time I would like to spend on it - the second variant mentioned above ( 2 ) applying DTB for project-related work when I have only a certain discretionary time available - does force you not to loose yourself too much in the project, e.g. if you are in the "flow" :D
After preselecting the next FV chain to work on you can nevertheless be very flexible regarding "special" tasks. E.g. and following your last example you have selected 3 tasks. This is according to the original idea of the Decremental Time Box ( DTB ) a work time of 0.10, i.e. 6 minutes: ( 1 ) 03 minutes ( 2 ) 2 minutes and ( 3 ) 1 minute. I leave the pondering to you - "work as long on the task as you feel is right / want to " should be applied here instead ;)
Now you can introduce a variant: you have decided to work for 05 minutes on task C, 10 minutes on task B and again 05 minutes on task A. If you want to use the DTB as a guide how to split these single tasks' work times in even tinier time chunks, this could be applied as follows - just an example:
( 1 ) task C 05 minutes translate to 03 on the scale adding up to 06 minutes : 6 is nearer to 3 ;)
( 2 ) task B 10 minutes translate to 04 on the scale adding up to exactly 10 minutes :)
( 3 ) task A 05 works as task C.
The only question in this respect is : is this not too much of a burden than just following your way of working off the time allocated ? For your example I would say yes - even though the one or other would like to nevertheless apply the slicing.
A second variant would be : use DTB only for the "one" task you feel you have to work on "longer", but in a time controlled way and work off all the other, wherever they are in the preselected list, according to your gut feeling, i.e. as long as you want to.
What I am currently doing is : ( 1 ) in general not to apply DTB on a preselected FV chain as a whole. I do apply DTB for a single task though, depending on how much ( controlled ) time I would like to spend on it - the second variant mentioned above ( 2 ) applying DTB for project-related work when I have only a certain discretionary time available - does force you not to loose yourself too much in the project, e.g. if you are in the "flow" :D
June 3, 2012 at 12:00 |
Stefano F. Rausch
Stefano F. Rausch
To add a practical example for what I am currently doing is ( 1 ) mentioned in my previous post :
When having preselected my task to check the email inbox and hence to work it off to Zero Inbox and it is its turn to be worked on, I like to force myself to work on it only for a maximum of 36 minutes - one can use time in a better way than looking at emails, which I do 2 times a day only ;) So I do start with an 08 minute time burst.
It is astonishing, when following the "1. delete 2. delegate 3. do 2 minutes 4. defer 5. archive" rule, how fast one can clean up the inbox. DTB does help me to stay focused in that respect and not to immediately start to work on a current email task and hence to spend hours in the inbox … it happened too many times that I "woke up" and had to realise that time flew and other tasks where still waiting in the FV chain - not a good way to reduce self-imposed stress :)
When having preselected my task to check the email inbox and hence to work it off to Zero Inbox and it is its turn to be worked on, I like to force myself to work on it only for a maximum of 36 minutes - one can use time in a better way than looking at emails, which I do 2 times a day only ;) So I do start with an 08 minute time burst.
It is astonishing, when following the "1. delete 2. delegate 3. do 2 minutes 4. defer 5. archive" rule, how fast one can clean up the inbox. DTB does help me to stay focused in that respect and not to immediately start to work on a current email task and hence to spend hours in the inbox … it happened too many times that I "woke up" and had to realise that time flew and other tasks where still waiting in the FV chain - not a good way to reduce self-imposed stress :)
June 3, 2012 at 12:16 |
Stefano F. Rausch
Stefano F. Rausch
<So to me the real problem isn't finding which kind of list is the best, but finding some way to committing to do anything at all. If you've been struggling with clutter (physical and mental) and procrastination, what did you do to get rid of it and keep the procrastination at bay? I'd be thankful for any advice. >
For me what works best is to contain the clutter in some way, lists, backlogs, boxes. Then start chipping away at the easier stuff while thinking of better ways and routines to deal with it and keep it under control, as well as tackle the more intractable stuff.
Having a daily plan can help, as feels better to plan and accomplish say 1/2 hr on something than do a random amount and feel you've still got 95% to go. What hopefully happens is you end up doing an hour or two and feel even better about it.
For me what works best is to contain the clutter in some way, lists, backlogs, boxes. Then start chipping away at the easier stuff while thinking of better ways and routines to deal with it and keep it under control, as well as tackle the more intractable stuff.
Having a daily plan can help, as feels better to plan and accomplish say 1/2 hr on something than do a random amount and feel you've still got 95% to go. What hopefully happens is you end up doing an hour or two and feel even better about it.
June 4, 2012 at 10:57 |
smileypete
smileypete
I've been following Mark Forster's work for a few years. I did like the approach of Do It Tomorrow, and used some of the suggestions in it, until my old habit of procrastinating and doing stuff at the last minute took over again. When AF appeared it appealed to me and I started building my list and slowly working on the tasks. However, eventually (as in a few days later), the old habits again started to conquer the ideal of "the new and improved me".
The same thing happened again with FV. I actually find the system appealing, maybe not as appealing as AF, but the real problem isn't the system, it's picking up the list. I may write the ultimate to-do list (or closed list or whatever), but sooner or later I'll abandon it. So I'm wondering what others in a similar situation have done?
I'm working with children, and there's little paper work and little deadline-related work. But when there's something I should be doing, I'll often put it off until it becomes urgent or others will rely on my work. The main problem for me is probably at home and related to community work (websites and similar), where I'm a notorious procrastinator and messy. AF or FV will help me get some of the clutter away, but then I'll stop picking up the list (paper or electronic) and keep being messy...
So to me the real problem isn't finding which kind of list is the best, but finding some way to committing to do anything at all. If you've been struggling with clutter (physical and mental) and procrastination, what did you do to get rid of it and keep the procrastination at bay? I'd be thankful for any advice.
- Christian